Hendrix, Taylor J. on mon 14 jul 03
Howdy all,
Got to spend some time in teacher's studio today talking about her trip
to Colorado (she went to a big art show there--many cool pots) and hand
building some vases. She hasn't been able to do work in her studio for
at least 6 weeks. It was fun. I even enjoyed hand building. Please
don't think less of me. Anyhoo, we were taking our slabs outside to
stiffen up and I mentioned that I wanted to make some planters. She has
many terra cotta pots on her patio. She said, "There's no money in
planters." Now that is the second person that has said that, but I just
don't understand. Don't we have a few clayarters who throw 'pots' such
as these? So what's the deal here?
I've read at least one ceramics book on garden pottery, and I can't see
how some of those very nice pots couldn't hold their own in the pot
market. Are we talking about two different things here? Plant pots and
those big 'architectural' pots totally different animals?
I'm very curious to know what Clay Town thinks.
Taylor, in Waco, were he has brought home his 50# of Ranger Shale and
wants something to make with it!
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on mon 14 jul 03
I make planters, i grow plants. I just did the Cactus & Succulent Society of
America convention it was in StLouis. I sold a bunch of planters. I think i
would have sold more but a potter from Cali was selling his planters at my whole
sale price. I had to lower my prices to compete. He only does planters and
they are good planters , just too cheap.
Check out : www.oldmancactus.com
he sells my planters. Also i make Bonsai planters. I love growing plants so i
make planters. Nothing better than a Pachypodium or a Adenium in a had made
pot.
Mark
www.lookoutmountainpottery.com
Leland G. Hall on tue 15 jul 03
Good Morning Taylor,
Its 6 AM, coffee and ibuprofen have not begun to work yet, so my brain is
real fuzzy, but your question reminded me of something I want to share. I
will have to get back to you all with details after I do some research, or
maybe some one else will know what I speak of.
Several years ago, on Oregon Public Telivision, I saw a show about a potter
in Portland OR Potter, who makes the most wonderful, HUGE, archetectual
planters. Very cool stuff. (at least I thought so) And part of the deal
was, that even though he is right handed, he throws backwards, so to
speak. My foggy, pain ridden brain is telling me that his method, website,
and and rather Zen throwing philosophy used the term "left of Center". He
teaches, using this philosophy. Makes claims to being able to EASILY
handle HUGE amounts of clay by letting the clay come to the potter, rather
having the clay LEAVE the potters hands, as with conventional pulling up.
MMmm. I'm thinking that it's not that wheel rotation is different, but
that everything is done on the left. Well duh, "left of center".
I apologize. I really am still asleep. But he had a cool website. I
wanted to take his course. Never did though, obviously.
Any way, looks like HIS planters sell. Big bucks too.
I'll look for his site later. Get back atcha.
Ya all was talken 'bout Stihl saws the other day? I'm ready to use mine
for an anchor and go fishin. Darn thing is killin me. Maybe I could trade
it for fire wood?
Later
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel Enterprises
La Pine, OR
Bob Nicholson on tue 15 jul 03
I think the problem is that you are competing with the
imports. The public perception is that they can buy
a "hand made ceramic planter" at their local garden
supply store for a few bucks.
Of course, it's not impossible to differentiate your product
and justify a higher price in the customer's mind... it's
just tougher if there's a lot of low-price competition.
- Bob
psci_kw on tue 15 jul 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leland G. Hall"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:46 AM
Subject: No Money in Planters?
> Good Morning Taylor,
> Ya all was talken 'bout Stihl saws the other day? I'm ready to use mine
> for an anchor and go fishin. Darn thing is killin me. Maybe I could
trade
> it for fire wood?
>
> Later
> Leland Hall
> Before The Wheel Enterprises
> La Pine, OR
You just reminded me of that old saying:
"Give a man firewood, and he'll sit around the cabin all winter and drink
beer .
Teach a man to cut firewood and he'll sit around the cabin all summer and
drink beer"
Or so my father said :>)
Wayne in Key West
who still owns a (Poulan) chainsaw, and uses it to cut palm trees, not pine
trees
Earl Brunner on tue 15 jul 03
That would be Joel Cottet, back in the 70's he was one of my idols. I
just did a yahoo search for him and discovered that he died in November
of last year.
http://www.leftofcenterschool.org/
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Leland G.
Hall
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 6:47 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: No Money in Planters?
Good Morning Taylor,
Its 6 AM, coffee and ibuprofen have not begun to work yet, so my brain
is
real fuzzy, but your question reminded me of something I want to share.
I
will have to get back to you all with details after I do some research,
or
maybe some one else will know what I speak of.
Several years ago, on Oregon Public Telivision, I saw a show about a
potter
in Portland OR Potter, who makes the most wonderful, HUGE, archetectual
planters. Very cool stuff. (at least I thought so) And part of the
deal
was, that even though he is right handed, he throws backwards, so to
speak. My foggy, pain ridden brain is telling me that his method,
website,
and and rather Zen throwing philosophy used the term "left of Center".
He
teaches, using this philosophy. Makes claims to being able to EASILY
handle HUGE amounts of clay by letting the clay come to the potter,
rather
having the clay LEAVE the potters hands, as with conventional pulling
up.
MMmm. I'm thinking that it's not that wheel rotation is different, but
that everything is done on the left. Well duh, "left of center".
I apologize. I really am still asleep. But he had a cool website. I
wanted to take his course. Never did though, obviously.
Any way, looks like HIS planters sell. Big bucks too.
I'll look for his site later. Get back atcha.
Ya all was talken 'bout Stihl saws the other day? I'm ready to use mine
for an anchor and go fishin. Darn thing is killin me. Maybe I could
trade
it for fire wood?
Later
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel Enterprises
La Pine, OR
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Eric B on wed 16 jul 03
does anyone know if Joel (Cottet) made instructional videos that are for
sale? i skulked around the left-of-center site and didn't see any, then i called
the telephone number and it just rang.
i'm very intrigued by his technique. he sounds like he was a good person and
a great potter.
eric
John Baymore on wed 16 jul 03
I think the problem is that you are competing with the
imports. The public perception is that they can buy
a "hand made ceramic planter" at their local garden
supply store for a few bucks.
Yes... in this context, imports are a direct competition.
Unfortunately I don't think the idea of "hand made" enters into it for 99=
%
of the people. It is just that they can get "the same thing" (in THEIR
eyes)
cheaper at the garden center. End of the matter.
It is all about price. "I'm so smart... I saved $X.00 by buying the sa=
me
thing at the garden center, Target, Walmart, Home Depot (and so on)." Th=
e
mass marketeers have repeatedly TOLD people that they are really smart wh=
en
they save money at the "XXXXXXXX" store.
=
In fact, the concept of the "suggested retail price" concept is ALL about=
this idea. If you get it for less than the "MSRP"......... you are smart=
. =
Total BS....... but many people actually believe it and respond to it. =
(For the ultimate in a "cynicism trial"......... try marking your normal
$50 retail pots at $100 and then having a "SALE" and mark them at 50% off=
.)
How many people in our US society actually "vote with their $" when it
comes to NOT buying items that are made by labor overseas that is basical=
ly
working in "sweat shop" conditions? A very, VERY small percentage of the=
population. As long as most can get the item cheaper....... they don't
pretty much care where or how it was made.
I am sure that compared to stuff like human rights abuse....... whether=
something is handmade or not will have little impact on the buying
decisions of the mass of US public. =
And unfortunately "handmade" is a term that has no real legal meaning in =
US
society. It is used with a WIDE latitude of interpretation by all manner=
of businesses. As we have seen here on CLAYART in the past....... even W=
E
..... a group of object makers........ cannot really agree on what is tru=
ly
"handmade". And the general education of the US public does not give the=
m
much appreciation for the efforts of the hand anyway......... so the ter=
m
even when used has little inherent percieved value to the average person.=
(Hopefully through our own efforts....we can affect that perception a tin=
y
bit .)
It is pretty hard to compete with jiggers and slip casting and ram pressi=
ng
when you are using a potter's wheel or a slab roller.......... =
particularly when such techniques are being used by people who are used t=
o
doing skilled handwork where the standard of living makes them happy to
earn only a few dollars a week. =
So a likely answer for the suffering US potter is ..... don't compete on
volume of production or price. You'll likely lose tha battle and probabl=
y
beat up your body in trying. This comes back to the discussion in the "G=
ot
Clay" thread that is talking about ..... "What exactly is it that we are
selling here?"
What we each do is very much "niche market" stuff.
I love craft marketing guru Bruce Baker's suggestion about responding to =
a
person who is looking at a price on a piece as being high. You say
something like "My handcrafted work is not for everyone."....... and then=
just shut up. It is a closing technique challenge. The person has to do=
the self talk to decide if it is for THEM.
You'll either end the debate for them and move on to more productive
things.... or close the sale.
I heard recently that in Alfred's studios there is (or was) a sign that
said........ "A pot without a soul is just clay around a hole". I LOVE
it!!!! You can get "clay around a hole" cheaper than most anywhere at th=
e
Walmart or Home Depot garden center.
best,
.....................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http:\\www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop: August 15-24,
2003"
e wilson farrington on wed 16 jul 03
Hey Taylor,
Check out Mark Hewitt in North Carolina. Has people lining up for =
his huge planters. Practically camping out overnight and fighting over =
the pots the next morning!
Also, being a garden design fanatic among other things, I have =
noticed very high-end ads in garden design magazines for terra cotta =
planters $500 and up. I can't remember the fellow's name, but he must be =
selling something to pay for those color ads.
Cheers!
Willie
PS: I love big planters because I love big, architectural plants. I also =
have a soft spot for nice orchid and bromeliad planters. (I must be =
drawn to temperamental coddling... pets and plants--not spouses, thank =
god!) If I were rich and couldn't make them myself,=20
I would definitely buy some.
PPS: How 'bout some poetry about pots? I know you have it in you.=20
'Nuf said. ;)
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