Charles Moore on fri 25 jul 03
Hi, Kendall,
Could you clarify (or re-state) you second sentence? I am not quite =
sure of your meaning. I do not understand "plaster for throwing" or =
"dedicate a wheel to a buckethead."
I have Pure & Simple plaster mold system pieces and find them very =
useful for combining handbuilding and throwing. I'd be happy to tell =
you what I know--though I am sure that there are Clayarters with more =
experience than I.
Charles
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kendall deaton=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:36 PM
Subject: Pure & simple bat molds?
I am looking for input on the Pure & Simple plaster bat mold system. I =
am looking to use plaster for throwing but not have to dedicate a wheel =
to a buckethead or the like.
Kendall
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Dan Bowen on sat 26 jul 03
I use the pure and simple bat system and am pleased. I modified the system
by mounting the male(part that ataches to wheel head)to a Bailey wood baltic
birch bat with flat head wood screws, This makes it east to remove and let
the wheel head be used for other things.
Dan Bowen
Weirwood Station Pottery
On the Eastern Shore of Virginia
Kendall deaton on sat 26 jul 03
That same company makes molds for flat and curved plaster bats for throwing. That have a key and lock kind of connection to the wheelhead. I am looking for anyone who has used their molds to make bats for throwing and has an opinion on them one way or the other.
A bucket head is what is normally used for plaster bats such as randall wheels, thomas stuart and jepson. It is permanently attached to the wheelhead whereas the P&S is not which would make it more desirable to me for flexibility.
Sorry for any confusion. Kendall
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Al Knutson on sat 26 jul 03
I am looking for anyone who has used their molds to make bats for =
throwing and has an opinion on them one way or the other.
Kendall,
I have been using plaster bats made from P&S molds
for aprox. 6 years now. I bought the molds mainly for
throwing plates ( throw them upside down and form the foot ring while =
throwing ). When leather hard I slide them off and let them set up a bit =
more before I turn them over to do slip decorating or carving. You will =
have to experiment a bit with different clays and how much you =
pre-moisten the bats. Some clays stick too well.
The nice thing about plaster bats is not having to cut under the =
pot....just lift it off when leather hard. The down side is being =
careful not to get any little plaster bits in your clay.=20
A tip ... when you remove the plastic batt holder from the wheel head, =
back off the nut under the wheel head while holding the the bolt head =
stationery on the plastic ( for the first 1/4 turn ). If you dont it =
won't take long to wear the plastic down. Same thing goes for tightening =
the last 1/4 turn. I keep a couple 7/16" wrenches hung beside the bat =
holder for attaching and removing.
I use the big flat batt for throwing large platters and large bowls. =
No prying required. Just lift the batt off.
When I pour the batts I rub a thin coating of vegtable oil in the =
molds. They pop right out once the plaster has set up. The batts need to =
cure for 4 to 5 days before you can use them. I put a 5/8" masonry bit =
in my drill and drill out the area for the two bolt heads on each batt.
Hope this helps. I plan to keep using these batts.
Al Knutson
Merritt, B.C.
alaver@telus.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
karen gringhuis on sat 26 jul 03
Kendall -
I'd prefer not to knock a product but this time I am
obligated to speak up. I sunk several hundred dollars
(incl. pd. labor) into Pure and Simple bats and
ultimately gave them and their molds away. I had ONLY
the flats made and have NO experience with the hump
shapes.
The problem was that the groove on the underside which
drops onto the key plate which one has locked onto the
wheel head - the groove did not allow the bats to drop
flat and true. So most of them had a definite wobble
like a warped phonograph record. I tried every which
way to deepen or adjust this groove to no avail. What
few bats I kept I use for drying out wet clay.
In my experienced opinion, you would be MUCH better
off going with Steve Jepson's plaster bat system. This
is really Ted Randall's system using a ring instead of
a bucket head. (Giving Ted no credit does not endear
Steve to me but the ring IS a valuable addition and
the system works well.) It utilizes a ring which locks
onto the bat pins in the standard position of most
wheels heads. Into this ring fits the foot of the
flat plaster bat. (In profile, the bat looks like a
shallow bowl with a tall foot.) With this system, if
the ring wears a bit and the bat slips a bit, all one
does is stick in a wad of clay to steady it. This
system has been around for decades and works very well
for me and some of my friends.
The footed bat has an added bonus in that, since the
underside of bat is not flat on the head of table,
it's easy to get your fingers under the edge to lift
and move it. And to tuck plastic underneath it.
Jepson advertises in CM and will ship you the ring and
ready made bats - more expensive than making one's own
but they're good quality and hassle-free. (One's time
is the most expensive ingredient of any ceramic work.)
And yes, Kendall, it's worth the effort to throw on
plaster once you get the hang of it. No more sloppy
mess. I never cut off plates - just let them pop off
the plaster when they're ready. Yes the bats take up
one hell of a lot of space (unlike the black plastic
ones I have also used)but to me, they're essential.
One comment - I have NOT tried HydroBats but they
sound like a definite contender and I think the basic
shape is the same. And as I recall, they are harder
so would not get grooves from tools like plaster
although this might mean more water spray. But that's
what splash pans are for.
If I can answer any more qns, feel free to write.
=====
Karen Gringhuis
KG Pottery
Box 607 Alfred NY 14802
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Charles Moore on sat 26 jul 03
Kendall,
I want to respond to some of Karen's comments because my experience is quite
different. (I'll use upper case letters to distinguish my comments):
----- Original Message -----
From: "karen gringhuis"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 3:24 PM
Subject: Pure & simple bat molds?
> Kendall -
Karen said:
> I'd prefer not to knock a product but this time I am
> obligated to speak up. I sunk several hundred dollars
> (incl. pd. labor) into Pure and Simple bats and
> ultimately gave them and their molds away. I had ONLY
> the flats made and have NO experience with the hump
> shapes.
>
I HAVE SEVERAL OF THE HUMP SHAPES AND FIND THAT THEY WORK VERY WELL FOR ME.
> The problem was that the groove on the underside which
> drops onto the key plate which one has locked onto the
> wheel head - the groove did not allow the bats to drop
> flat and true. So most of them had a definite wobble
> like a warped phonograph record. I tried every which
> way to deepen or adjust this groove to no avail. What
> few bats I kept I use for drying out wet clay.
I THINK THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS POURING THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF PLASTER INTO
THE PLASTIC SLUMP MOLD AND KEEPING IT LEVEL. I MADE SOME MISTAKES, BUT WAS
ABLE TO CORRECT BY SMOOTHING OUT THE PLASTER WITH A SHUR FORM TOOL. THIS IS
MOST EASILY DONE BEFORE THE PLASTER HAS HAD A LOT OF TIME TO CURE. IN
ADDITION, YOU SHOULD USE THE SAME TOOL TO SMOOTH THE EDGES OF THE PLASTER
FORMS. OTHERWISE, YOU BEGIN TO GET BITS OF PLASTER FALLING INTO YOUR WHEEL.
YOU MAY ALSO FORM YOUR PLASTER BATS WITHOUT USING THE PLASTIC
ATTACHMENTS--IF YOU CAN ATTACH YOUR PLASTER FORM TO A BAT, WHICH I DO WITH
THE FIRST BE HUMP MOLDS THAT I MADE.
HOWEVER, I ALSO HAVE SOME SQUARE AND RETANGULAR SLUMP HUMPS WHICH I FIND A
BIT MORE DIFFICULT TO WORK WITH. THE CLAY NEEDS TO BE THICK ENOUGH TO SLUMP
ONE OR MORE INCHES. I FIND THE OLD ROLLING PIN NECESSARY FOR THE UPPER EDGE
TO THIN IT OUT. AGAIN THE SHUR FORM HELPS SMOOTH THE EDGES.
I DON'T KNOW THE STEVE JEPSON PLASTER BAT SYSTEM THAT KAREN RECOMMENDS; SHE
MIGHT BE QUITE CORRECT.
HOPE THIS HELPS.
Charles
Sacramento
Gary Elfring on mon 28 jul 03
AK> I bought the molds mainly for
AK> throwing plates ( throw them upside down and form the foot ring while throwing ). When leather hard I slide them off and let them set up a bit more before I turn them over to do slip decorating
AK> or carving. You will have to experiment a bit with different clays and how much you pre-moisten the bats. Some clays stick too well.
I had lots of problems with my clay sticking to the plaster molds and
then cracking. (I was making porcelain plates and then carving them.)
I finally tried rolling out a slab, placing the slab on the mold, and
then ribbing it down. After that I add two foot rings by adding a
bit of rolled up clay.
With this method you can make some unbelievably thin plates. I start
with a wet slab 3/16 of an inch thick.
--
Best regards,
Gary
kruzewski on tue 29 jul 03
In UK we don't have all these wonderful bats and bat systems. We either make
or buy wooden bats. It's a lack of skill, I know, but even if I can get them
centred on my wheel (I don't have a lotus wheelhead) they slip off centre
while I'm throwing - so I don't use wood.
I invested in a Pure and Simple system - flat bats - and I found them really
good. No problems with settling the bats onto the key plate at all. Making
my own bats using their molds was the cheepest option, as there was no way I
would be able to buy plaster bats from USA (I'm in UK) nor do I have the
time or ingenuity to design my own system. The molds plus the shipping cost
me a fair bit but it was worth it.
I might add that I have no connection with this firm although they did use a
pic of one of my ceramic clocks in their advertising for a while - but I got
/ get no commission - not even the free mold they promised for using an
image of my work. Still love their molds though.
Jacqui
North Wales
----- Original Message -----
From: "karen gringhuis"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 11:24 PM
Subject: Pure & simple bat molds?
> I'd prefer not to knock a product but this time I am
> obligated to speak up. I sunk several hundred dollars
> (incl. pd. labor) into Pure and Simple bats and
> ultimately gave them and their molds away.
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