Jan L. Peterson on mon 4 aug 03
Well, if you "youngsters" are considered too old for the classes you've
chosen to take, I wonder what they will think when I apply for Business Management
at 60! They will probably have me take a test to see if I have Alzheimer's.
Make sure I can get all my work done by eight, so I can get my warm milk and
cookies before bed-time! For heaven's sake. You're not too old for nothin',
unless you think you are. Find a better University and an enthusiastic, eager
teacher. Only thing too anything is the teacher's thinking. Too out-dated! jp
Gail Phillips on mon 4 aug 03
Ellie -
It is so nice to know that I am not alone in graduating "late" in 2002. =
I
was 42 when I graduated, and got the same load of cr@p from my =
professor.
One day, during my last semester, there was going to be a school
photographer coming around the art department to do some work for a
promotional brochure. Our department chairperson (who is also the =
ceramics
instructor) asked students to come in early that day, to be in the =
studios
doing work so the guy could get his pictures taken. I was one of a very =
few
who showed up early (which is so unlike me it isn't even funny). I was =
the
only one in the ceramics lab. The photographer proceeded to take some =
pics
of me throwing, glazing, loading a kiln, etc. Some of the shots were of =
my
hands on the clay ONLY, so you couldn't tell who it was. When the =
department
chair showed up later, he told the photographer not to use ANY pictures =
of
me because I was "too old". He is about twenty years older than me. =
Grrr! He
then went on to throw a huge pot on one of the other wheels, and put =
some
young student at the wheel (who could barely throw) to make it look like
they had done the work. Sheesh.
This school has a radio promotion trying to attract returning adult
students, telling them that they "make getting your degree easy". B.S. =
Most
of the classes that I ended up needing to take to complete my degree =
were
offered during the daytime only, so I had to quit my job to finish. I am
sure glad to be done there.
Don't let this flaming butthole discourage you. It is just another =
example
of "bad teaching".
Now, the other problem lies here - I am in Indianapolis, and want
desperately to help in some capacity with NCECA. Unfortunately, the
professor that I have had such trouble with is the main contact here for
NCECA, and I know that he wants nothing whatsoever to do with me. All we =
did
was butt heads while I was there at "his" university. What's a potter to =
do?
- Gail Phillips
Praying Mantis Pottery
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ellie Blair
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:16 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
Ellie
----- Original Message -----
From: The Potter's Edge
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:20 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs
Ellie,
Sounds like your professor is an @$$. Some of this passage will sound =
like
I'm some WWII vet but I swear I'm only 33. I've served in two wars, =
been
through one divorce, 3 colleges, 2 degrees and pressure is only self
inflicted (believe me, I'm a pressure cooker). What has continually =
killed
me with the halls of academe/oppression is that those in the driver's =
seat
seek to mandate their viewpoints on others. Those who oppress know =
nothing
or want nothing short of that goal. Vision and want should not be
nourished; they should be snuffed...if that vision defies the =
norm...Heck,
you're 50 and should be counting the days to Social Security...why =
bother
the up-and-comers with a statement 3 decades too late...what can you
possibly say? On the other end, when I got into trouble at the age of =
15, my
father (a current legal ethics professor...what an oxymoron)... brought =
me
to Angola Prison, La. and told me that I would end up there. I told him
that aside from the stark decor, I kind of liked the place. Although =
I've
been in jail on 5 continents (never found guilty and something that I =
pride
myself on) I never graced the walls of Angola...go take a cr@p on the =
guys
desk and tell him to find a new job. There is an associated =
responsibility
with teaching aside from the tutelage...that responsibility is hope for
those who seek it. Unless you just really suck (and I doubt that you do
because you weren't pushed through college on a football scholarship at =
age
50) this guy/gal may have handed you an injustice.
Hope that I haven't offended any scholarly clerics out there...If you're
reading this forum then you probably care more about the craft than your =
own
cool points...(for the record I'm a plebian who just happens to excel in =
the
craft) and I honestly love Prof. Mark Gasorousky from LSU...he's not =
into
clay...he's into thought.
Regards
VXNERVE
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Ellie Blair
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:53 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs
Tony, I would like this information too. I completed my degree in =
ceramics
in 2002. I wanted to go on and get my masters but my professor told me =
I
should forget it and just make pots. I was too old to take on that
pressure. I am 53 and it really ticked me off. I can't believe that =
his
opinion is the norm out there. I still am checking into the possibility =
and
would like the info.
Thanks
Ellie Blair
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Ferguson
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 11:17 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: rate current MFA programs
I will be applying for MFA this Fall in the attempts to complete a dream
that has been back burnered.
I would be curious as to the top 10 MFA programs in clay? I am looking =
for
a strong program in clay as well as sculpture and possibly glass. All 2
cents and opinions very welcomed. I understand there is much =
variability in
what makes a program "top" out there; none the less, I know many of you =
are
aware of who is dynamic and providing an exemplary experience for MFA
candidates. I am somewhat aware in my region. I also understand there =
has
been much turn over in terms of new professors, so there may be many
programs that are "new" in the sense of new leadership in teaching.
Also, has anyone heard anything about the two new professors at =
University
of Minnesota and the future of what appears to be a new program?
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Ferguson on mon 4 aug 03
Gail,
I am shocked at how you were treated. Perhaps someone will relay this
message to the Art department chair or Dean as this behavior is unacceptable
and extremely destructive to a program that desires to expand what they
offer to a target market. I hope that you shared your experience with the
powers that be. YOU are the paying customer and do not have to be treated
that way and others will be treated that way unless something is done.
Please email me off list the name of the university so I can make sure I
don't waste my time researching it for an MFA.
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Phillips"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs/bad teaching
> Ellie -
>
> It is so nice to know that I am not alone in graduating "late" in 2002. I
> was 42 when I graduated, and got the same load of cr@p from my professor.
> One day, during my last semester, there was going to be a school
> photographer coming around the art department to do some work for a
> promotional brochure. Our department chairperson (who is also the ceramics
> instructor) asked students to come in early that day, to be in the studios
> doing work so the guy could get his pictures taken. I was one of a very
few
> who showed up early (which is so unlike me it isn't even funny). I was the
> only one in the ceramics lab. The photographer proceeded to take some pics
> of me throwing, glazing, loading a kiln, etc. Some of the shots were of my
> hands on the clay ONLY, so you couldn't tell who it was. When the
department
> chair showed up later, he told the photographer not to use ANY pictures of
> me because I was "too old". He is about twenty years older than me. Grrr!
He
> then went on to throw a huge pot on one of the other wheels, and put some
> young student at the wheel (who could barely throw) to make it look like
> they had done the work. Sheesh.
>
> This school has a radio promotion trying to attract returning adult
> students, telling them that they "make getting your degree easy". B.S.
Most
> of the classes that I ended up needing to take to complete my degree were
> offered during the daytime only, so I had to quit my job to finish. I am
> sure glad to be done there.
>
> Don't let this flaming butthole discourage you. It is just another example
> of "bad teaching".
>
> Now, the other problem lies here - I am in Indianapolis, and want
> desperately to help in some capacity with NCECA. Unfortunately, the
> professor that I have had such trouble with is the main contact here for
> NCECA, and I know that he wants nothing whatsoever to do with me. All we
did
> was butt heads while I was there at "his" university. What's a potter to
do?
>
> - Gail Phillips
> Praying Mantis Pottery
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ellie Blair
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:16 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs
>
> Thanks for the words of encouragement.
> Ellie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: The Potter's Edge
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 6:20 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs
>
> Ellie,
> Sounds like your professor is an @$$. Some of this passage will sound
like
> I'm some WWII vet but I swear I'm only 33. I've served in two wars, been
> through one divorce, 3 colleges, 2 degrees and pressure is only self
> inflicted (believe me, I'm a pressure cooker). What has continually
killed
> me with the halls of academe/oppression is that those in the driver's seat
> seek to mandate their viewpoints on others. Those who oppress know
nothing
> or want nothing short of that goal. Vision and want should not be
> nourished; they should be snuffed...if that vision defies the norm...Heck,
> you're 50 and should be counting the days to Social Security...why bother
> the up-and-comers with a statement 3 decades too late...what can you
> possibly say? On the other end, when I got into trouble at the age of 15,
my
> father (a current legal ethics professor...what an oxymoron)... brought me
> to Angola Prison, La. and told me that I would end up there. I told him
> that aside from the stark decor, I kind of liked the place. Although I've
> been in jail on 5 continents (never found guilty and something that I
pride
> myself on) I never graced the walls of Angola...go take a cr@p on the guys
> desk and tell him to find a new job. There is an associated
responsibility
> with teaching aside from the tutelage...that responsibility is hope for
> those who seek it. Unless you just really suck (and I doubt that you do
> because you weren't pushed through college on a football scholarship at
age
> 50) this guy/gal may have handed you an injustice.
>
> Hope that I haven't offended any scholarly clerics out there...If you're
> reading this forum then you probably care more about the craft than your
own
> cool points...(for the record I'm a plebian who just happens to excel in
the
> craft) and I honestly love Prof. Mark Gasorousky from LSU...he's not into
> clay...he's into thought.
>
> Regards
> VXNERVE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Ellie Blair
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:53 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs
>
>
> Tony, I would like this information too. I completed my degree in
ceramics
> in 2002. I wanted to go on and get my masters but my professor told me I
> should forget it and just make pots. I was too old to take on that
> pressure. I am 53 and it really ticked me off. I can't believe that his
> opinion is the norm out there. I still am checking into the possibility
and
> would like the info.
> Thanks
> Ellie Blair
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Ferguson
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 11:17 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: rate current MFA programs
>
> I will be applying for MFA this Fall in the attempts to complete a dream
> that has been back burnered.
>
> I would be curious as to the top 10 MFA programs in clay? I am looking
for
> a strong program in clay as well as sculpture and possibly glass. All 2
> cents and opinions very welcomed. I understand there is much variability
in
> what makes a program "top" out there; none the less, I know many of you
are
> aware of who is dynamic and providing an exemplary experience for MFA
> candidates. I am somewhat aware in my region. I also understand there
has
> been much turn over in terms of new professors, so there may be many
> programs that are "new" in the sense of new leadership in teaching.
>
> Also, has anyone heard anything about the two new professors at University
> of Minnesota and the future of what appears to be a new program?
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Tony Ferguson
> On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake
>
> Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
> by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
> www.aquariusartgallery.com
> 218-727-6339
> 315 N. Lake Ave
> Apt 312
> Duluth, MN 55806
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Gail Phillips on tue 5 aug 03
Jan wrote:
> You're not too old for nothin', unless you think you are.=20
My take on it is the only time you are too old for something is when =
you're
dead. (and even then, you can at least be good enough for daisy =
fertilizer!)
- Gail Phillips
Ellie Blair on tue 5 aug 03
It is good to hear people say that but only wish my school had that attit=
ude.
Ellie
----- Original Message -----
From: Gail Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 11:17 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: rate current MFA programs/bad teaching
Jan wrote:
> You're not too old for nothin', unless you think you are. =20
My take on it is the only time you are too old for something is when you'=
re
dead. (and even then, you can at least be good enough for daisy fertilize=
r!)
- Gail Phillips
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclin=
k.com.
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