pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 11 aug 03
anecdote...
All of this is nice in it's way...and the 'in-it's-way'
remains in a context, itself appearently invisible and
unassayed...
My own short anecdote about 'at-risk' kids, is this...
Couple or three years ago I was hired on contract by the
County to do some remedials to an old 'Camp' built by the
'C.C.C.' boys in 1937 up in Kyle Canyon...way up in the
Mountains...the Camp is still in use...
I was working on re-doing a Door to one of the Cabins as had
been badly done by someone else previously...cutting the
mortises for new square butt Hinges, into new Jambs and so
on...re-hanginbg it...new threshold...
A group came into Campo as were inner-city ('North Town')
Black kids, boys, all arond 9 years old or so...
Some of them came and hovered around me and were starting to
puick up my Tools and rummage through my Tools Box and so
on...and...
Well, to keep it a short mention, they had never seen a Man
do anything before in their life.
I ended up showing them the Chisel I was useing, and let
them examine it, let them look at my Hand Saw, one of them
cut themselves right away ( in a small way) and we talked
about that a little, he was fascinated with how 'sharp' it
was. They had never seen Tools before, nor anyone useing
them.
They watched me working, asking many questions...I worked,
then I'd pause and talk, work some more...talk a
litle...pretty soon the questions eased and they
watched...they were learning about what I was doing, what
the Tools were, what the Tools were for, what the names of
the Tools were...on and on...a nice energy to it...five
boys...
Anyway...
They could spend the rest of their life in school...and
never see anything like that.
If this was a hundred years ago, or evern eighty years ago,
I'd go and see their parents and work out something as for
those five different boys...so they could spend time with me
if they wanted. And I can tell you with a conviction borne
of deep intuition, that, in a year, they'd have more
vocabulary, more arithmetic, more knowledge, more self
respect, better Reading Comprehension, more Reading, more
practical skills of all kinds, more powers of abservation,
more calm, more pride, more interest in life than 99 out of
hundred hi-school graduates.
Care to bet me?
Much more to this...
But I said I'd keep it short.
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donn Buchfinck"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: teacher bashing/a reason to listen
> You know mel, I did just what youy said, I went and taught
high school, and
> just not any high school kids either,
> East oakland kids, and summer school at that. " Kids at
risk"
> And you know what, It wasn't that bad.
> Oh it was hard. and stressfull, but as I look back on it
it was well worth it,
> here is the trick about those kids, they acted just like
they were supposed
> to,
> they acted out, they pushed the limit.
> they didn't count on running up against an imovable object
in me, or that I
> might be backed up by and even stronger willed 5'6 female
principal.
> Kids aren't any diffrent than they were when I was in
school.
> I mean it, I was not the easiest person to deal with, but
what we have in
> public schools is the kids of my generation.
> The kids of the latchkey generation, the "hey no one
diciplined me so how can
> I dicipline them"
> and parenting is not easy, kids didn't go bad and this
crop is harder than
> the last.
> What is happening is that I think people have not taken on
the experience of
> parenting and helping their children grow to be adults.
> They feel they want their lives,
> You can't be friends.
>
> As to teaching these kids, I told them I could not teach
them anything, this
> realy shocked some, I told them that they had to learn how
to learn, and some
> did, I feel I did reach some.
>
> Now college is a different beast, I remember a lot of
graduate students
> teaching courses and not giving the information out in a
way I could grasp it.
> I remember being a grad student and seeing the class of
the the other grad
> student not get the attention they needed because as class
would start he would
> go in his studio and shut the door. I was there 24/7 and
my class learned,
> they learned because someone was there to help them
through the little things.
>
> No matter what anyone says, College is something you pay
for, you get
> something for it.
> And there are succesful programs out there.
> You have to look beyond the name of the program.
> Some super fantastic program with a long history in
ceramics, a program that
> has lots of grad students and undergrads, say in a north
east state of this
> country might not be the best place to develop your work.
>
> they have a great reputation, but what do they produce?
> Is the message they are teaching valid?
> Do their students go out and make a life for themselves in
art, in clay?
> are they disinfrachizesd because they don't have a
teaching job that will
> support thier "research"
> Is the program DEAD, and dosen't know it, just running on
reputation/fumes?
>
> then they cycle goes again, teachers walking into their
studios and closing
> the doors on their students because they need time for
themselves. Leaving it
> up to the grads to hack out the curriculum.
>
> I will say this now, there needs to be a reworking of how
ceramics is taught
> in our country.
> We need a differnt way to do it,
> We need the curriculum changed in schools.
> People need to get their moneys worth,
> they need to leave with something tangible.
> How about we give students the feeling they CAN do it.
>
> Donn Buchfinck
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Gail Phillips on mon 11 aug 03
anecdote...
Good Lord, Phil -
I hope that you wouldn't teach them how to spell...
- Gail Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 2:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: teacher bashing/a reason to listen - and an 'at risk' kids
anecdote...
All of this is nice in it's way...and the 'in-it's-way'
remains in a context, itself appearently invisible and
unassayed...
My own short anecdote about 'at-risk' kids, is this...
Couple or three years ago I was hired on contract by the
County to do some remedials to an old 'Camp' built by the
'C.C.C.' boys in 1937 up in Kyle Canyon...way up in the
Mountains...the Camp is still in use...
I was working on re-doing a Door to one of the Cabins as had
been badly done by someone else previously...cutting the
mortises for new square butt Hinges, into new Jambs and so
on...re-hanginbg it...new threshold...
A group came into Campo as were inner-city ('North Town')
Black kids, boys, all arond 9 years old or so...
Some of them came and hovered around me and were starting to
puick up my Tools and rummage through my Tools Box and so
on...and...
Well, to keep it a short mention, they had never seen a Man
do anything before in their life.
I ended up showing them the Chisel I was useing, and let
them examine it, let them look at my Hand Saw, one of them
cut themselves right away ( in a small way) and we talked
about that a little, he was fascinated with how 'sharp' it
was. They had never seen Tools before, nor anyone useing
them.
They watched me working, asking many questions...I worked,
then I'd pause and talk, work some more...talk a
litle...pretty soon the questions eased and they
watched...they were learning about what I was doing, what
the Tools were, what the Tools were for, what the names of
the Tools were...on and on...a nice energy to it...five
boys...
Anyway...
They could spend the rest of their life in school...and
never see anything like that.
If this was a hundred years ago, or evern eighty years ago,
I'd go and see their parents and work out something as for
those five different boys...so they could spend time with me
if they wanted. And I can tell you with a conviction borne
of deep intuition, that, in a year, they'd have more
vocabulary, more arithmetic, more knowledge, more self
respect, better Reading Comprehension, more Reading, more
practical skills of all kinds, more powers of abservation,
more calm, more pride, more interest in life than 99 out of
hundred hi-school graduates.
Care to bet me?
Much more to this...
But I said I'd keep it short.
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donn Buchfinck"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: teacher bashing/a reason to listen
> You know mel, I did just what youy said, I went and taught
high school, and
> just not any high school kids either,
> East oakland kids, and summer school at that. " Kids at
risk"
> And you know what, It wasn't that bad.
> Oh it was hard. and stressfull, but as I look back on it
it was well worth it,
> here is the trick about those kids, they acted just like
they were supposed
> to,
> they acted out, they pushed the limit.
> they didn't count on running up against an imovable object
in me, or that I
> might be backed up by and even stronger willed 5'6 female
principal.
> Kids aren't any diffrent than they were when I was in
school.
> I mean it, I was not the easiest person to deal with, but
what we have in
> public schools is the kids of my generation.
> The kids of the latchkey generation, the "hey no one
diciplined me so how can
> I dicipline them"
> and parenting is not easy, kids didn't go bad and this
crop is harder than
> the last.
> What is happening is that I think people have not taken on
the experience of
> parenting and helping their children grow to be adults.
> They feel they want their lives,
> You can't be friends.
>
> As to teaching these kids, I told them I could not teach
them anything, this
> realy shocked some, I told them that they had to learn how
to learn, and some
> did, I feel I did reach some.
>
> Now college is a different beast, I remember a lot of
graduate students
> teaching courses and not giving the information out in a
way I could grasp it.
> I remember being a grad student and seeing the class of
the the other grad
> student not get the attention they needed because as class
would start he would
> go in his studio and shut the door. I was there 24/7 and
my class learned,
> they learned because someone was there to help them
through the little things.
>
> No matter what anyone says, College is something you pay
for, you get
> something for it.
> And there are succesful programs out there.
> You have to look beyond the name of the program.
> Some super fantastic program with a long history in
ceramics, a program that
> has lots of grad students and undergrads, say in a north
east state of this
> country might not be the best place to develop your work.
>
> they have a great reputation, but what do they produce?
> Is the message they are teaching valid?
> Do their students go out and make a life for themselves in
art, in clay?
> are they disinfrachizesd because they don't have a
teaching job that will
> support thier "research"
> Is the program DEAD, and dosen't know it, just running on
reputation/fumes?
>
> then they cycle goes again, teachers walking into their
studios and closing
> the doors on their students because they need time for
themselves. Leaving it
> up to the grads to hack out the curriculum.
>
> I will say this now, there needs to be a reworking of how
ceramics is taught
> in our country.
> We need a differnt way to do it,
> We need the curriculum changed in schools.
> People need to get their moneys worth,
> they need to leave with something tangible.
> How about we give students the feeling they CAN do it.
>
> Donn Buchfinck
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Hank Murrow on mon 11 aug 03
anecdote...
On Monday, August 11, 2003, at 12:39 PM, pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
Snip................They watched me working, asking many
questions...I worked,
> then I'd pause and talk, work some more...talk a
> litle...pretty soon the questions eased and they
> watched...they were learning about what I was doing, what
> the Tools were, what the Tools were for, what the names of
> the Tools were...on and on...a nice energy to it...five
> boys...
>
> Anyway...
>
> They could spend the rest of their life in school...and
> never see anything like that.
>
> If this was a hundred years ago, or evern eighty years ago,
> I'd go and see their parents and work out something as for
> those five different boys...so they could spend time with me
> if they wanted. And I can tell you with a conviction borne
> of deep intuition, that, in a year, they'd have more
> vocabulary, more arithmetic, more knowledge, more self
> respect, better Reading Comprehension, more Reading, more
> practical skills of all kinds, more powers of abservation,
> more calm, more pride, more interest in life than 99 out of
> hundred hi-school graduates.
>
> Care to bet me?
Having just returned from the funeral of Jim Wright, who built the
exact copy of the Hughes H-1 Racer, with only the original aircraft (in
the Smithsonian) and no plans to follow............I would never take
your bet. The overwhelming impression of power with dexterity that may
be seen in a craftsperson's working process is compelling and
addictive. When I came out of a Jesuit H.S. with lots of book learning
behind me, I was soooooo ready to watch Bob James make
pots.............by hand or on the wheel, it was all magic to one who
had a head full of ideas and few skills. It has taken the subsequent 45
years for my hands to catch to my head.........more or less.
Admiral Rickover, when taking over the Navy Nuclear program, declared
that they would recruit no Harvard MBAs, because they had no real
experience. He said, "Give me an engineer or a carpenter, someone who
has actually been responsible for making something.....the nuclear
stuff can come along later".
Would have made a good potter, for an Admiral, Hank in Eugene
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 11 aug 03
anecdote...'Spelling errors'...
Oh!
Oh...
In-a-hurry...
Off the cuff...
Sorry!
Amused,
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gail Phillips"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: teacher bashing/a reason to listen - and an 'at
risk' kids anecdote...
Good Lord, Phil -
I hope that you wouldn't teach them how to spell...
- Gail Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 2:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: teacher bashing/a reason to listen - and an 'at
risk' kids
anecdote...
All of this is nice in it's way...and the 'in-it's-way'
remains in a context, itself appearently invisible and
unassayed...
My own short anecdote about 'at-risk' kids, is this...
Couple or three years ago I was hired on contract by the
County to do some remedials to an old 'Camp' built by the
'C.C.C.' boys in 1937 up in Kyle Canyon...way up in the
Mountains...the Camp is still in use...
I was working on re-doing a Door to one of the Cabins as had
been badly done by someone else previously...cutting the
mortises for new square butt Hinges, into new Jambs and so
on...re-hanginbg it...new threshold...
A group came into Campo as were inner-city ('North Town')
Black kids, boys, all arond 9 years old or so...
Some of them came and hovered around me and were starting to
puick up my Tools and rummage through my Tools Box and so
on...and...
Well, to keep it a short mention, they had never seen a Man
do anything before in their life.
I ended up showing them the Chisel I was useing, and let
them examine it, let them look at my Hand Saw, one of them
cut themselves right away ( in a small way) and we talked
about that a little, he was fascinated with how 'sharp' it
was. They had never seen Tools before, nor anyone useing
them.
They watched me working, asking many questions...I worked,
then I'd pause and talk, work some more...talk a
litle...pretty soon the questions eased and they
watched...they were learning about what I was doing, what
the Tools were, what the Tools were for, what the names of
the Tools were...on and on...a nice energy to it...five
boys...
Anyway...
They could spend the rest of their life in school...and
never see anything like that.
If this was a hundred years ago, or evern eighty years ago,
I'd go and see their parents and work out something as for
those five different boys...so they could spend time with me
if they wanted. And I can tell you with a conviction borne
of deep intuition, that, in a year, they'd have more
vocabulary, more arithmetic, more knowledge, more self
respect, better Reading Comprehension, more Reading, more
practical skills of all kinds, more powers of abservation,
more calm, more pride, more interest in life than 99 out of
hundred hi-school graduates.
Care to bet me?
Much more to this...
But I said I'd keep it short.
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donn Buchfinck"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: teacher bashing/a reason to listen
> You know mel, I did just what youy said, I went and taught
high school, and
> just not any high school kids either,
> East oakland kids, and summer school at that. " Kids at
risk"
> And you know what, It wasn't that bad.
> Oh it was hard. and stressfull, but as I look back on it
it was well worth it,
> here is the trick about those kids, they acted just like
they were supposed
> to,
> they acted out, they pushed the limit.
> they didn't count on running up against an imovable object
in me, or that I
> might be backed up by and even stronger willed 5'6 female
principal.
> Kids aren't any diffrent than they were when I was in
school.
> I mean it, I was not the easiest person to deal with, but
what we have in
> public schools is the kids of my generation.
> The kids of the latchkey generation, the "hey no one
diciplined me so how can
> I dicipline them"
> and parenting is not easy, kids didn't go bad and this
crop is harder than
> the last.
> What is happening is that I think people have not taken on
the experience of
> parenting and helping their children grow to be adults.
> They feel they want their lives,
> You can't be friends.
>
> As to teaching these kids, I told them I could not teach
them anything, this
> realy shocked some, I told them that they had to learn how
to learn, and some
> did, I feel I did reach some.
>
> Now college is a different beast, I remember a lot of
graduate students
> teaching courses and not giving the information out in a
way I could grasp it.
> I remember being a grad student and seeing the class of
the the other grad
> student not get the attention they needed because as class
would start he would
> go in his studio and shut the door. I was there 24/7 and
my class learned,
> they learned because someone was there to help them
through the little things.
>
> No matter what anyone says, College is something you pay
for, you get
> something for it.
> And there are succesful programs out there.
> You have to look beyond the name of the program.
> Some super fantastic program with a long history in
ceramics, a program that
> has lots of grad students and undergrads, say in a north
east state of this
> country might not be the best place to develop your work.
>
> they have a great reputation, but what do they produce?
> Is the message they are teaching valid?
> Do their students go out and make a life for themselves in
art, in clay?
> are they disinfrachizesd because they don't have a
teaching job that will
> support thier "research"
> Is the program DEAD, and dosen't know it, just running on
reputation/fumes?
>
> then they cycle goes again, teachers walking into their
studios and closing
> the doors on their students because they need time for
themselves. Leaving it
> up to the grads to hack out the curriculum.
>
> I will say this now, there needs to be a reworking of how
ceramics is taught
> in our country.
> We need a differnt way to do it,
> We need the curriculum changed in schools.
> People need to get their moneys worth,
> they need to leave with something tangible.
> How about we give students the feeling they CAN do it.
>
> Donn Buchfinck
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________
________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________
__________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on mon 11 aug 03
anecdote...
In High school they finally let me take woodshop...once. Wouldn't let
me take it again. I loved woodshop. For some reason they thought I was
college bound. In my senior year, they told me I had so much potential,
but had wasted it, and wouldn't be able to go to college....
By then I had found pottery though and spend 3 hours a day during my
senior year at the wheel. Got into college on the strength of my
portfolio and did fine. Got a BFA in Ceramics. We need to give kids
more options and help them find their way where they are interested in
going. School doesn't do that well.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Hank Murrow
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:14 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: teacher bashing/a reason to listen - and an 'at risk' kids
anecdote...
On Monday, August 11, 2003, at 12:39 PM, pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
Snip................They watched me working, asking many
questions...I worked,
> then I'd pause and talk, work some more...talk a
> litle...pretty soon the questions eased and they
> watched...they were learning about what I was doing, what
> the Tools were, what the Tools were for, what the names of
> the Tools were...on and on...a nice energy to it...five
> boys...
>
| |
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