Christena Schafale on tue 2 sep 03
Barb,
Many people who want this look use clay that has granular manganese in
it. The manganese makes dark speckles which don't really look just like
the iron spotting you get in reduction, but which give something of the
same effect.
Chris
At 11:13 AM 09/02/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Dear fellow potters:
>
>I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery to
>look like it has been fired in reduction ... meaning the spots drawn from
>the clay in reduction duplicated in some way by firing in oxidation.
>
>Is there a specific glaze recipe that can help me? Can I add something to
>a commercial glaze? What would that be?
>
>I throw pottery as my "love" but have to work a full-time job to support
>myself. That means there is little time to do research!
>
>I am open to all suggestions. Thanks very much!
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Information Services Manager
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Cindy Gatto on tue 2 sep 03
Hi:
Yes, there is a very easy way to get that faux reduction iron spot look
that you speak of. You can mix granular manganese dioxide into your claybody. I
know standard clays has a claybody S112 that is like this. I am sure that
other clay companies have their own version of this speckled clay. I do not know
about adding something to the glaze I think you may run into problems with the
chemistry of the glaze if you go that route. Good luck!
Thanks:
Cindy & Mark
The Mudpit
228 Manhattan Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11206
718-218-9424
mudpitnyc@aol.com
www.mudpitnyc.com
Paul Lewing on tue 2 sep 03
on 9/2/03 10:13 AM, Barb Dickmann at bsallfiredup@YAHOO.COM wrote:
> I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery to look
> like it has been fired in reduction ... meaning the spots drawn from the clay
> in reduction duplicated in some way by firing in oxidation.
>
> Is there a specific glaze recipe that can help me? Can I add something to a
> commercial glaze?
> I am open to all suggestions.
My suggestion is that if you want it to look like reduction, do reduction.
Sorry to be so flip, but oxidation firing is a wonderful technique that will
produce amazing effects if used well. But it will never look like
reduction, and it's pointless to try to make it.
One of the big differences is that in reduction the kiln will give you a lot
of visual texture without your doing any more than dipping the pot in a
bucket. You can get as complex and interesting textures in oxidation, but
you have to put them there and fire right to keep them.
So no, there is no specific recipe or ingredient you can add that will make
oxidation look like reduction, or vice versa.
Sorry.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Vince Pitelka on tue 2 sep 03
> I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery to
look like it has been fired in reduction.
Barb -
This is easily accomplished. Get a gas kiln. Hey, I am serious. I really
don't mean to be flippant, and I realize that your present circumstances
might not allow a gas kiln, but fundamentally I do not believe in the idea
of trying to make electric-fired work look like it was reduction-fired. It
just grates against me. It seems deceptive. This is just my own opinion,
of course.
For now, you can activate the unglazed bare clay areas with an oxide stain
like iron oxide in water mixed to thin creamy consistency. Brush it onto
the bisque-fired clay, and then wipe most of it back off with a sponge. You
can also add either illmenite, rutile, or manganese (all in granular form)
to your claybody (make very sure you have an effective kiln vent if you use
manganese), and it will make small speckles, although never as lively and
visible as those in reduction-fired clay.
Other than that, just make sure you are using Ron and John's book "Mastering
Cone 6 Glazes," and you can get your oxidation glazes to sing.
But I hope you can figure out a way to get access to a gas kiln for
reduction firing, and if you are really committed to the effects of
reduction firing, you will eventually figure out a way to get a gas kiln of
your own.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Marta Matray Gloviczki on tue 2 sep 03
barb,
if you look at ababi`s website,
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
you`ll find that he is doing an excellent job experimenting with glazes,
which look other than electric kiln fired glazes. (reduction or woodfired
or soda glazed look alikes!!!)
after all, ababi is clayart`s very own glaze addict!
cheers,
marta
=====
marta matray gloviczki
rochester,mn
http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/marta/
http://users.skynet.be/russel.fouts/Marta.htm
http://www.silverhawk.com/crafts/gloviczki/welcome.html
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on tue 2 sep 03
Hey,
Take a good look at the ^6 Glaze book of oxidation fired work by Hesselberth
& Co....some pretty terrific looking stuff!
Good luck
Susan
Annandale, VA
Deeclay@AOL.COM on tue 2 sep 03
You didn't say how high you are firing. There are several cone 6 clays that
will produce iron speckling. You have to check with your clay supplier to see
what they have. I don't know of any low fire clay that can produce the same
effect.
Good luck in your research. You will have to do some of your own
experimenting to get your desired effect.
Let us know what you come up with.
Diane in Sunny Miami
Miami will be hosting the Archie Bray Ceramic Show at the Lowe Art Museum and
Gallery at the University of Miami starting Sept. 19th. Ya'll come on down.
Pat K Kratzke on tue 2 sep 03
Barb, I've seen and used some locally-produced commercial glazes that
give that "reduction look" in an electric kiln, so this is not
impossible. But I would highly recommend Hesselberth and Roy's Mastering
Cone Six Glazes (assuming you're doing cone 6). I hope to start mixing
my own glazes soon (control freak), so I asked Santa for this book last
year, and it is inspiring.
I, too, am in the "not my day job" potter category, so my studio time is
precious, and I have little patience for failed experiments. But
unfortunately, that's part of the process. Good luck!
Patti Kratzke
Kingston, WA
pkpotts@juno.com
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:13:13 -0700 Barb Dickmann
writes:
> I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed
> pottery to look like it has been fired in reduction ... meaning the
> spots drawn from the clay in reduction duplicated in some way by
> firing in oxidation.
> I throw pottery as my "love" but have to work a full-time job to
> support myself. That means there is little time to do research!
Barb Dickmann on tue 2 sep 03
Dear fellow potters:
I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery to look like it has been fired in reduction ... meaning the spots drawn from the clay in reduction duplicated in some way by firing in oxidation.
Is there a specific glaze recipe that can help me? Can I add something to a commercial glaze? What would that be?
I throw pottery as my "love" but have to work a full-time job to support myself. That means there is little time to do research!
I am open to all suggestions. Thanks very much!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
Ababi on wed 3 sep 03
I am testing it lately.
The answer is no.
The second answer is almost, depends on you digital pictures software.
The third answer is make a lot of wares and go to a workshop where you
can fire in reduction.
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Barb
Dickmann
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 8:13 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Oxidation to look like Reduction
Dear fellow potters:
I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery to
look like it has been fired in reduction ... meaning the spots drawn
from the clay in reduction duplicated in some way by firing in
oxidation.
Is there a specific glaze recipe that can help me? Can I add something
to a commercial glaze? What would that be?
I throw pottery as my "love" but have to work a full-time job to support
myself. That means there is little time to do research!
I am open to all suggestions. Thanks very much!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Lewis on wed 3 sep 03
Could you say more about needing good ventilation when using Manganese?
I haven't used it in my claybody, but have been experimenting with using
it as a 'wash' (more like thick paste) in combination with other oxides
and a couple of simple 'off the shelf' glazes. I only have a small
electric kiln (18" cube) so the total amount of wares is small.
Thanks
Lewis
> You
> can also add either illmenite, rutile, or manganese (all in granular
form)
> to your claybody (make very sure you have an effective kiln vent if
you
> use manganese),
Cindi Anderson on wed 3 sep 03
Using the word "deceptive" seems a little odd to me. I thought you were
going to say "it is fighting an uphill battle", or "it is trying to use the
wrong tool for the job", or something like that. But seems to me any effect
you can get out of a certain piece of equipment is fair game. Most of the
good potters do things out of the ordinary to get effects that they want.
There are no rules in this game. Every rule I have ever seen in ceramics is
broken by many successful potter. If you can get an effect you want, what
difference does it make what kind of kiln something was fired in?
Cindi
Fremont, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> This is easily accomplished. Get a gas kiln. Hey, I am serious. I
really
> don't mean to be flippant, and I realize that your present circumstances
> might not allow a gas kiln, but fundamentally I do not believe in the idea
> of trying to make electric-fired work look like it was reduction-fired.
It
> just grates against me. It seems deceptive. This is just my own opinion,
> of course.
Janet Price on wed 3 sep 03
Barb,
A.R.T. in Chicago sells a clay body called orangestone on which many
glazes are more textured and just different. It's not iron spots or
reduction, but the feel is different from other clay bodies, more
rustic. It fires to about cone 4 or 5. Throws nicely, has a low
shrinkage, but slumps sometimes if you fire too hot. If you're in the
midwest it might be worth a try.
Janet Price
Barb Dickmann wrote:
>Dear fellow potters:
>
>I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery to look like it has been fired in reduction ... meaning the spots drawn from the clay in reduction duplicated in some way by firing in oxidation.
>
>
>
>
Imbolchottie@AOL.COM on wed 3 sep 03
When I asked if it were possible to do a reduction firing in an electrick
kiln the answer I got was "Yes" OK, how? I haven't tried this myself, for
various reasons, but maybe someone on the list has.
Sugar cubes wrapped in paper to look like a brick - tossed in the peep hole
then replugged.
Sounds crazy, huh?
Well, so did the pilot idea for a tv show about a nun who could fly.
Who knew????
Jonathan in LA
Tony Olsen on wed 3 sep 03
Barb,
I think your best bet here is to use the clay that has manganese bits =
pugged into it. Trying to get this from the glaze could be possible, =
but a new batch of experiments may be needed for each glaze recipe you =
want to use.
-------------------------------------------
http://www.pottery-books.com/cgi-local/axner/loadpage.cgi?user_id=3D30581=
037&file=3Dclaybodies/claycone6.html
Granular Manganese is added to this body to give it a speckled look. =
Speckles sometimes burn through glaze thus giving a reduction-like =
appearance even when fired in an electric kiln.
-------------------------------------------
This is one Axner has, no doubt there are more from other places. I get =
mine from Blackjack clay in Murchison Texas.
http://www.blackjackclay.com/
Take care, Stay muddy, Have fun.
Tony Olsen, Galveston TX USA
neslot@houston.rr.com
http://tonyolsen.com/up/
Hollis Engley on wed 3 sep 03
----- Original Message -----
From: Vince Pitelka
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
> > I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery to
> look like it has been fired in reduction.
>
> Barb -
> This is easily accomplished. Get a gas kiln. Hey, I am serious. I
really
> don't mean to be flippant, and I realize that your present circumstances
> might not allow a gas kiln, but fundamentally I do not believe in the idea
> of trying to make electric-fired work look like it was reduction-fired.
It
> just grates against me. It seems deceptive.
I'm with Vince on this one. There's something that just doesn't feel right
about trying to make electric-fired work look like reduction work. There was
a piece in CM a couple of months ago about how to make electric-fired pots
look like they were wood-fired. "Fool your friends!" was the sense of it.
Maybe it aggravated me because I know the hard work, energy and the roll of
the cosmic dice that goes into producing good wood-fired work. This one has
the same sense. Gas or wood is better for some things, but not everything.
There's lots of good work produced in electric kilns. Making fake stuff just
doesn't seem right.
Hollis
Hatchville Pottery
Falmouth, Mass.
hengley@cape.com
Bob Hamm on wed 3 sep 03
Hi Vince and Hollis,
> >
Vince wrote;
but fundamentally I do not believe in the idea
> > of trying to make electric-fired work look like it was reduction-fired.
> It
> > just grates against me. It seems deceptive.
Hollis wrote:
> I'm with Vince on this one. There's something that just doesn't feel right
> about trying to make electric-fired work look like reduction work.
What is all this talk about deception. I think you are assuming too much. I
just reread Barb's post that started this thread. Nowhere did she state a
desire to deceive anybody or represent the work as coming from a gas kiln.
This is what Barb said.
> > > I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery
to
> > look like it has been fired in reduction.
Everyone is entitled to their views on the proper use of materials and
processes. But is it a deceptive practice to make something that looks like
the product of a different process? Not as far as I am concerned. The only
way deception could enter this scenario is if the pots were represented as
coming from a gas or live fuel kiln fired in reduction. To make a pot that
fired in an electric kiln appear to come from a gas kiln is manipulation of
a process, not the viewer. Manipulation. This what we do. All creative
pursuits manipulate materials and processes to produce desirable results.
You can fire a gas kiln in oxidation. Would the resulting product be
deceptive?
I don't think we should let anyone else fence in our creative aspirations.
Beyond ensuring the process is safe for the producer and the end product is
safe for the end user, the only rules that apply are the ones producer
creates.
Go for it Barb.
Best regards.
Bob.
Bob Hamm
Robert Hamm Studio Gallery
6750 Highway 33 East, Kelowna, BC V1P 1H9
Phone 250 765-8876 Fax 250 765-0497 email bobhamm@look.ca
To visit my web site http://www.bobhamm-art.com
Kelowna Clay Festival web page http://www.bobhamm-art.com/clayfest
Christena Schafale on wed 3 sep 03
Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I would guess that most people who are
trying to make "reduction-look" work could care less about fooling anyone
and certainly are not in the business of making "fakes". What's going on
is that they like the aesthetic qualities that are present in high-fire
reduction work, whether that means dark speckles that bleed through the
glaze, a certain subtlety of color, or a more intimate melding of glaze
with body, or those drips that look fluid and organic instead of sloppy.
I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to achieve any of
these effects in oxidation firing -- which is not to say that it will be
easy or even possible! It's all very well to say -- get a gas kiln -- but
for many of us "basement potters" that isn't possible and never will
be. As someone else said, the kiln is just a tool, and if someone can use
that tool and their knowledge of glaze chemistry to produce the aesthetic
that pleases them, more power to them! Reduction potters don't own subtle
colors, and wood-fire potters don't own brown.
Chris
>I'm with Vince on this one. There's something that just doesn't feel right
>about trying to make electric-fired work look like reduction work. There was
>a piece in CM a couple of months ago about how to make electric-fired pots
>look like they were wood-fired. "Fool your friends!" was the sense of it.
>Maybe it aggravated me because I know the hard work, energy and the roll of
>the cosmic dice that goes into producing good wood-fired work. This one has
>the same sense. Gas or wood is better for some things, but not everything.
>There's lots of good work produced in electric kilns. Making fake stuff just
>doesn't seem right.
>Hollis
>Hatchville Pottery
>Falmouth, Mass.
>hengley@cape.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Light One Candle Pottery
209 N Woodrow St
Fuquay-Varina, NC 27526
(919) 567-1098
candle@intrex.net
www.lightonecandle.com
Clayart Spring Gallery: www.lightonecandle.com/clayartgallery.html
Craig Dunn Clark on wed 3 sep 03
Just to chum the waters a bit........the idea (one that I unfortunately
share more times than I want to admit) that a reduction fired piece is
somehow better than an equally well crafted piece that is fired in an
electric kiln is absurd.
Indeed, if someone is able, through extensive trial, error and
experimentation, to come up with a glaze that looks like the end result of a
several day firing to cone 11 or 12 in a wood fired kiln then more power to
them. At the very least they are doing the planet, and hence all of us, a
service in the realm of conservation.
I know that the process is not the same, but a particular process, such
as that of firing 3000 cubic foot anagamas and aborigamas in places like
Japan can't go on forever. From what I understand the Japenese must import
large quanitities of wood becuase much of their indigejnous timberlands have
become denuded. There just aren't enough trees to sustain such firings
indefinetely. I know they are wonderful, spirtual and that the kilns
themselves seem to come alive during the firings....however, these as all
things will change.
It seems that it is the experience of the firing rather than the end
result that is being questioned here. Perhaps those more creative than I may
have suggestions as to how one might go about coming up with some type of
ritual around electric kiln firings that adds elements of spirit, earth, and
fire to what often seems like a dull and mechanical electric proceess,
thereby giving those of us who prefer cone10 reducition fired pots something
to consisder. Maybe its the lack of sweat equity that is offensive..
Just a few thoughts
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hollis Engley"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vince Pitelka
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
>
>
> > > I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed pottery
to
> > look like it has been fired in reduction.
> >
> > Barb -
> > This is easily accomplished. Get a gas kiln. Hey, I am serious. I
> really
> > don't mean to be flippant, and I realize that your present circumstances
> > might not allow a gas kiln, but fundamentally I do not believe in the
idea
> > of trying to make electric-fired work look like it was reduction-fired.
> It
> > just grates against me. It seems deceptive.
>
>
> I'm with Vince on this one. There's something that just doesn't feel right
> about trying to make electric-fired work look like reduction work. There
was
> a piece in CM a couple of months ago about how to make electric-fired pots
> look like they were wood-fired. "Fool your friends!" was the sense of it.
> Maybe it aggravated me because I know the hard work, energy and the roll
of
> the cosmic dice that goes into producing good wood-fired work. This one
has
> the same sense. Gas or wood is better for some things, but not everything.
> There's lots of good work produced in electric kilns. Making fake stuff
just
> doesn't seem right.
> Hollis
> Hatchville Pottery
> Falmouth, Mass.
> hengley@cape.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Christy Pines on wed 3 sep 03
I agree with Bob. The conversation with an informed pot-buyer might go something like this:
pot in hand, admiring the glaze, the buyer says to the maker: Was this fired in a gas kiln? Maker says No, electric, and grins. Wow, says buyer, it sure looks like it was fired in reduction. Yes, says the maker proudly. I worked very hard to make it look that way. Isn't it cool???
christy, who only has access to electric and likes to do whatever she wants with the materials and tools available to her to create whatever makes her little heart happy, as should most anyone.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Hamm
Everyone is entitled to their views on the proper use of materials and
processes. But is it a deceptive practice to make something that looks like
the product of a different process? Not as far as I am concerned. The only
way deception could enter this scenario is if the pots were represented as
coming from a gas or live fuel kiln fired in reduction. To make a pot that
fired in an electric kiln appear to come from a gas kiln is manipulation of
a process, not the viewer. Manipulation. This what we do. All creative
pursuits manipulate materials and processes to produce desirable results.
You can fire a gas kiln in oxidation. Would the resulting product be
deceptive?
I don't think we should let anyone else fence in our creative aspirations.
Beyond ensuring the process is safe for the producer and the end product is
safe for the end user, the only rules that apply are the ones producer
creates.
Snail Scott on wed 3 sep 03
At 02:12 AM 9/3/03 EDT, you wrote:
>When I asked if it were possible to do a reduction firing in an electrick
>kiln the answer I got was "Yes" OK, how? I haven't tried this myself, for
>various reasons, but maybe someone on the list has.
You can use lots of methods to induce reduction
in an electric kiln. That part's easy. An old-
style favorite: mothballs. A new-style method:
a bunsen burner tucked underneath, below a small
hole. But, ALL methods of reduction will cause
degradation of your elements, unless the elements
are protected.
The current favorite method seems to be ITC.
It requires brand-new elements, which are then
dipped in the ITC coating. It will not work with
old used elements. Many people swear by ITC as
a protective coating, so if you plan to pursue
reduction in an electric kiln, consider doing
the whole upgrade, or be prepared to replace
elements often.
-Snail
Vince Pitelka on wed 3 sep 03
Chris wrote:
> I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with trying to achieve any of
> these effects in oxidation firing -- which is not to say that it will be
> easy or even possible!
You are right, Chris, but I am glad that you added the second statement,
because it won't be possible. But as you and others have said, there is
nothing wrong with trying ANY effects to get the results you want. I do
believe in that. In art, there are no rules or established parameters,
because they tend to limit what art can be.
I appologize for using the word deceptive, because as someone else pointed
out, I think that would only be applicable if a potter were trying to sell
such work as reduction fired. But I am still wondering why anyone would
even think of this in terms of trying to get a reduction fired appearance
from an electric oxidation kiln. Instead, I would suggest approaching this
as the attempt to activate the surface, richen the unglazed clay areas,
enliven the glazes. And to that end, I repeat the same advice - use Ron and
John's "Mastering Cone 6 Glazes in order to make the most of the glaze
surfaces, and use oxide/stain patinas or terra sigillata on the unglazed
clay areas. Also, experiment with layered glazes, and with oxide/stain
patinas under the glazes. Experiment with blushes and variegated surface
effects over the glazes, achieved by spraying or spattering other glazes
over a base glaze. You can get a good overall speckle by spattering a
glazed surface with a darker glaze using a toothbrush.
Hope this helps -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Hollis Engley on wed 3 sep 03
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Dunn Clark
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
> Just to chum the waters a bit........the idea (one that I
unfortunately
> share more times than I want to admit) that a reduction fired piece is
> somehow better than an equally well crafted piece that is fired in an
> electric kiln is absurd.
Craig: Obviously, anyone can make any kind of pot any way they want to.
If someone wants to use an electric kiln to simulate a week of firing in an
anagama, knock yourself out. Firing electrically is indeed a quiet, not
particularly exciting way to fire pots. But that is not the same as saying
that the pots that come from an electric kiln have to be quiet and
unexciting. Lots of great pots come from electric kilns.
I'm not at all saying that live fire pots are better than electric pots.
There's a potter who lives near me, Ron Geering, who makes marvelous
slipware and he fires it in an old electric kiln whose elements he's
replaced over and over again. He's an amazing craftsman. I wish I had his
skills.
But I like the results I get from reduction firing, whether it's in a
gas-fueled kiln or a wood-fueled kiln. And it just seems misguided to try to
duplicate in one kind of kiln the results you would get from another type.
That's what it feels like for me, though, as I say, anyone can do anything
they want to do. If it's what Barb wants to do, I hope she has fun and I
hope she gets great pots and shares the results with us.
As to wood-firing, yes, for me it's about the surfaces you get from the
clay being exposed to the flame and the ash. And it is, to a certain degree,
about the time you spend doing it, especially with big anagamas that take
days to get to temperature. It's a lot of work, and you take your chances
with what comes out after it cools. I don't know about spirituality, but I
do know that there's an elemental connection to the past in firing with
wood. There just is; low-tech, laborious fire and clay. And I don't expect
everyone to understand that any more than I expect everyone to understand
why I'm a Red Sox fan. (God knows the customers this summer at our craft
co-op didn't sweep the anagama pots off the shelves.)
As to how long wood-firing will last, I think there's plenty of wood fuel
left in this country. I don't know about Japan. The four or five wood kilns
I've fired use waste wood, wood that would end up in a landfill - pine slab
off-cuts, cedar scraps from furniture and gazebo factories, boards from
demolished barns - and yes, sometimes oak and maple firewood. Finding wood,
at least in this area, is not a problem. As to environmental concerns, part
of the electricity that I use to bisque my pots in my old Duncan kiln comes
from a nuclear power plant about 40 miles from here. And we still haven't
figured out what to do with spent nuclear fuel rods that will be dangerous
for thousands of years.
Hollis
Hatchville Pottery
Falmouth, Mass.
hengley@cape.com
> Indeed, if someone is able, through extensive trial, error and
> experimentation, to come up with a glaze that looks like the end result of
a
> several day firing to cone 11 or 12 in a wood fired kiln then more power
to
> them. At the very least they are doing the planet, and hence all of us, a
> service in the realm of conservation.
> I know that the process is not the same, but a particular process,
such
> as that of firing 3000 cubic foot anagamas and aborigamas in places like
> Japan can't go on forever. From what I understand the Japenese must import
> large quanitities of wood becuase much of their indigejnous timberlands
have
> become denuded. There just aren't enough trees to sustain such firings
> indefinetely. I know they are wonderful, spirtual and that the kilns
> themselves seem to come alive during the firings....however, these as all
> things will change.
> It seems that it is the experience of the firing rather than the end
> result that is being questioned here. Perhaps those more creative than I
may
> have suggestions as to how one might go about coming up with some type of
> ritual around electric kiln firings that adds elements of spirit, earth,
and
> fire to what often seems like a dull and mechanical electric proceess,
> thereby giving those of us who prefer cone10 reducition fired pots
something
> to consisder. Maybe its the lack of sweat equity that is offensive..
> Just a few thoughts
> Craig Dunn Clark
> 619 East 11 1/2 st
> Houston, Texas 77008
> (713)861-2083
> mudman@hal-pc.org
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hollis Engley"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 10:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Vince Pitelka
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 9:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
> >
> >
> > > > I use an electric kiln and would like to get my thrown glazed
pottery
> to
> > > look like it has been fired in reduction.
> > >
> > > Barb -
> > > This is easily accomplished. Get a gas kiln. Hey, I am serious. I
> > really
> > > don't mean to be flippant, and I realize that your present
circumstances
> > > might not allow a gas kiln, but fundamentally I do not believe in the
> idea
> > > of trying to make electric-fired work look like it was
reduction-fired.
> > It
> > > just grates against me. It seems deceptive.
> >
> >
> > I'm with Vince on this one. There's something that just doesn't feel
right
> > about trying to make electric-fired work look like reduction work. There
> was
> > a piece in CM a couple of months ago about how to make electric-fired
pots
> > look like they were wood-fired. "Fool your friends!" was the sense of
it.
> > Maybe it aggravated me because I know the hard work, energy and the roll
> of
> > the cosmic dice that goes into producing good wood-fired work. This one
> has
> > the same sense. Gas or wood is better for some things, but not
everything.
> > There's lots of good work produced in electric kilns. Making fake stuff
> just
> > doesn't seem right.
> > Hollis
> > Hatchville Pottery
> > Falmouth, Mass.
> > hengley@cape.com
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Earl Brunner on wed 3 sep 03
Yeah, it'd be really nice to have a wood kiln, a salt kiln, a raku kiln,
shoot, you name it, it'd be nice. BUT I DON"T HAVE THOSE THINGS. Have
you noticed the ones that typically don't want you trying to reproduce a
look are usually the ones that have the stuff?????
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Craig Dunn
Clark
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:08 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
Just to chum the waters a bit........the idea (one that I
unfortunately
share more times than I want to admit) that a reduction fired piece is
somehow better than an equally well crafted piece that is fired in an
electric kiln is absurd.
Paul Lewing on wed 3 sep 03
on 9/2/03 2:05 PM, Christena Schafale at christenas@RFSNC.ORG wrote:
> The manganese makes dark speckles which don't really look just like
> the iron spotting you get in reduction, but which give something of the
> same effect.
This was my point exactly, Barb. I don't think it's deceptive, as some have
said, I just think it's pointless to go to all that work to make something
look like something else, when doing the real thing is so easy. Believe me,
the first two years after I switched from reduction to oxidation, I tried
the same thing. It never worked and now I prefer what I get in oxidation,
but I'm not fooling myself that it looks like reduction.
I'd advise you to get a copy of the latest issue of Studio Potter magazine,
which just came out. There's a whole section of articles by people who use
the electric kiln. Many of them went through just what you're going through
now. I think you'd be enlightened by what they now think.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Janice M. Boyd on thu 4 sep 03
Here's my (admittedly naive) perspective/experience. When I had to switch
from reduction fired, cone 10 work to electric fired, cone 6 work, I was
incredibly disappointed with what was available for glazing. I ached for
the beautiful glazes, incredible textures and depths I had before. The
standard cone 6 glazes were bright colors, translucent and glossy. Great
for some stuff, but didn't highlight textures, break and change on the
pottery. Bland. No excitement. Nothing begging to be picked up,
touched, caressed. I actually cried. Then I went on a glaze hunt -- at
first I said "I want a glaze that makes cone 6 oxidation look like cone 10
reduction." But that wasn't really it -- I wanted the depth, the zing,
the surprise, the joy. I wanted textures and changes. I wanted GOOD cone
6 oxidation glazes. And, by gum, they are out there! I took a pot out of
the kiln today and it sang to me. I took out another that wanted to be
held and caressed.
Life is good.
There are fun, exciting, rich glazes out there for cone 6 -- both
commercially available and in Ron Roy and Joh Hesselberth's book. I'm
anticipating more and more wonderful cone 6 glazes will appear, because of
all the talented people who are thinking and experimenting and trying
things. Maybe in 20 years, we'll have people wishing their reduction
fired ware could look more like "that cone 6 stuff."
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:36:22 -0700, Earl Brunner wrote:
>Yeah, it'd be really nice to have a wood kiln, a salt kiln, a raku kiln,
>shoot, you name it, it'd be nice. BUT I DON"T HAVE THOSE THINGS.
Earl Krueger on thu 4 sep 03
On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 08:14 AM, David Lane wrote:
> I'm stuck with a gas kiln and all I can fire is reduction pots.
I've never used a gas kiln so am I missing
something here? I assumed that if you were
to run the burners with plenty of primary
air and have sufficient secondary air the kiln
would have an oxidizing atmosphere.
Am I wrong?
Earl...
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on thu 4 sep 03
In a message dated 9/4/2003 9:14:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
john@FROGPONDPOTTERY.COM writes:
<< ing down in a controlled manner. Add that to what Vince
suggests above and you have the capability to make a remarkable range
of absolutely drop-dead beautiful glaze surfaces with an electric
kiln--as you do with a gas kiln or a wood kil >>
Having used many of John/s glazes from his book....I can tell you are
GORGEOUS!! and durable, etc. etc. not only that but John is so helpful when
"issues" arise as they often do firing without a controller (but all that for me is
about to change).
Susan
Annandale, VA
David Lane on thu 4 sep 03
I'm stuck with a gas kiln and all I can fire is reduction pots. I've seen
some really beautiful pieces that came out of an electric kiln. Can
someone tell me if there are any reduction glazes out there that will
give me that gorgeous oxidation effect? I don't want to deceive
anybody into thinking my pots were really fired in an electric kiln but I
do like the way those oxidation pots look!
Thanks,
David
Tony Hansen on thu 4 sep 03
I saved all these messages and read through them in
order. Yikes. And here I have been trying to duplicate
oxidation glazes in reduction!
Just kidding. But actually there are aspects of
oxidation that I will never have in gas.
I think I most like the repeatability,
ease of doing smaller firings, better consience about
how I impact the environment. Firing our gas kiln is
a three day hassle, firing an electric kiln is an
afterthought.
A typical brown iron reduction body has about 3500 psi
strenth. To create the variegated bare clay surface it
has to stop short of reduction (and bloating). I have seen
some as low as 2000 psi with poorly fitted high feldspar
glazes and you can tear the pieces apart with your bare
hands. Cone 6 iron bodies are stronger.
Anyway, interesting glazes are made by varying:
-opacity (using tin or ziron);
-color (using metal oxides or stains);
and introducing:
-variegation using rutile or titanium or a particulate raw material;
-better melt flow using an active flux like boron, zinc, litium;
-crystallization (by saturating with a crystal producing oxide)
-multiple layers that interact with each other
etc.
In Mastering Glazes you will notice that the glazes all
have high boron for melt flow and titanium or rutile for
variegation and lots of different metal oxides. That is
what makes them interesting. Take any cone 6 glaze, move
the boron up to 0.8 molar, add rutile and color and you
will get an interesting glaze (than runs when thick).
What kind of glaze can I not create having these
things at my disposal?
--------
Tony Hansen, Digitalfire Corp.
karen gringhuis on thu 4 sep 03
Chris -
It's YOUR aesthetic, it's YOUR work and it's YOUR time
and effort. I mean NO offense or criticism in my
comments below.
That said, my response to making ox. look like redtn.
has always been and still is "think this over
carefully." I can't read all the responses to your
query & you obviously hit a hot button judging from
the number of them, but I read Vince and I couldn't
agree more!
My PERSONAL experience is as follows.
I made the transition from redtn. to ox. before I
graduated from Alfred since I knew I would not have a
gas kiln. I built a body of work based on COLOR using
primarily Cerdec inclusion pigments. (The exciting
possibilities of these, and other, colorful glazes
have not been fully explored by me or others, so far
as I can see.)
The resulting functional table top pots sold very very
well in four well-respected venues incl. Lill St. in
Chicago. No, I do not think sales are the sole
criterion of success but public response is not
irrelevant, either. And yes, if someone offers me
space in a gas firing, I am happy to accept - this is
one of the reasons why I fire at C/10; plus I like
the almost subliminal quality of high fire.
People responded so strongly to my work that I have
NEVER pined for a gas kiln or tried to mimic redtn.
looks. I concluded the general public is tired of
BROWN pots. My galleries and private customers still
ask for more of this colorful work. And I attribute
this primarily to COLOR & my coherent point of view
because I am not the world's hottest thrower, etc.
I am thrilled that people want to set their tables
with my work. But this may not thrill YOU. (Alex
Solla, Sylvie Granatelli and Angela Fina may also be
cases in point.)
Meaning NO offense to anyone, IMHO there can be a
definite difference in taste and appreciation of
various firing methods between we POTTERS and the
PUBLIC. Much redtn. & wood-fired work is appreciated
and sells well to the public. BUT sometimes I think we
are talking too much to ourselves and can get swept up
in our own enthusiasms and status hierarchies, missing
other possibilities. (Another example is the current
wood-firing mania which Vince already touched on.)
Some of this enthusiasm comes from the still-pervasive
Japanese/Mingei/Leach influence on this country in
general. My recent exploration and research of
European work (Lucie Rie for starters) have been
eye-opening. There ARE other aesthetic traditions and
modes to be considered.
Shino is my prime example of this. I KILL for a sexy
carbon trapped shino pot. At a show during an NCECA
conference, every shino pot I had was snapped up - by
clay people. David Shaner once commented that he sold
more pots to potters than others - in a way, this is
an ultimate compliment to our work. BUT shino did not
well in my galleries and gallery managers warned me of
this up front. (Hank Murrow, stay calm.)
Just last week, a friend gave me a lovely majolica pot
and the first thing she did was to apologize for
having "only an electric kiln." I hear this FAR TOO
OFTEN and it's usually other clay people to whom we
are apologizing!!! This is ridiculous and it's time to
stop that. We're all in this together.
In summary, my philosophy is "Love the one you're
with." I think you and I may have talked about this
before? If I can help further in any way, please feel
free to ask!
=====
Karen Gringhuis
KG Pottery
Box 607 Alfred NY 14802
__________________________________
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Vince Pitelka on thu 4 sep 03
> How many of you woodfirers are planting trees?
> Global Warming affects us all.
> Effect, just for the sake of it, is a bit poncey, no ?
Pat -
The above is an old and tired arguement, because the results gained by
woodfiring are so extraordinary, and are available by no other means. You
do far more damage to the environment by driving your car than the
wood-firer does by occasionally firing her/his kiln. And the woodfirer
produces beautiful objects which enrich peoples lives. It is a very small
price to pay for the product, and there are so many other ways to help the
environment. Most woodfirers I know are conscientious environmentalists.
In this country, the loss of a renewable resource as a result of woodfirings
is not an issue. Woodfirers almost use sawmill scrap or deadwood/windfalls,
or else they do appropriate thinning to allow more desireable species to
grow.
Remember that the abundant electricity consumed by your electric kiln is
often generated by some of the worst polluters.
As to your final statement, what is that all about? Surface effect is much
of what we deal with. Surface effect is just a matter of controlling the
surface appearance and feel of your wares, and there is no potter alive that
does not continually struggle with issues of surface effect.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
John Hesselberth on thu 4 sep 03
On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 09:36 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> And to that end, I repeat the same advice - use Ron and
> John's "Mastering Cone 6 Glazes in order to make the most of the glaze
> surfaces, and use oxide/stain patinas or terra sigillata on the
> unglazed
> clay areas. Also, experiment with layered glazes, and with oxide/stain
> patinas under the glazes. Experiment with blushes and variegated
> surface
> effects over the glazes, achieved by spraying or spattering other
> glazes
> over a base glaze. You can get a good overall speckle by spattering a
> glazed surface with a darker glaze using a toothbrush.
I have been enjoying this thread and, of course, am delighted with the
good press Vince and others have given our book. Vince's advice above
is outstanding--there is so much that can be done in electric kilns and
more and more potters are doing it really well. It is also true, I
believe, that is much easier to make really boring and/or bad glazes in
an electric kiln and, unfortunately, there are a lot of those out there.
If I may try to simplify (and undoubtedly oversimplify) some of the
differences between gas reduction and electric firing: There are 3
effects which people seem to associate with gas reduction--you can
probably add some more, but I focus on these three.
First, iron spotting. As others have said, manganese speckling is a
fairly poor imitation of that effect.
Second there are specific colors that are difficult or impossible to
get without reduction, e.g. copper reds, although I suppose some will
say they can get that color with cadmium inclusion stains.
Third reduction fired glazes--particularly mattes and semimattes--often
have a richness and a depth and some variegation that most people think
comes from reduction. That, I believe, is not the case. Rather it comes
from properly formulated glazes and slow cooling. It just happens that
most gas fired kilns have 9 inch thick walls and cool slowly. Most
electric kilns cool like a shot if they are just turn off. And it is
this third effect which is within easy reach of people who fire
electric by firing down in a controlled manner. Add that to what Vince
suggests above and you have the capability to make a remarkable range
of absolutely drop-dead beautiful glaze surfaces with an electric
kiln--as you do with a gas kiln or a wood kiln.
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
Cindi Anderson on thu 4 sep 03
When people say "look like reduction" I don't think they usually mean for it
to exactly imitate reduction (they don't expect to get a shino or a wood
fired look for example.) But there are some of us who are more interested
in form than decoration. I don't paint well for example, and in my mind the
great colors of electric kilns are mostly good for people who paint
intricate designs on their pots. So I might make a nice form, but then to
put an all-over glossy single color glaze on a pot cheapens it (to me). It
just isn't that interesting. What I think people are looking for are glazes
that look interesting. And these are easier to achieve in reduction
firings. Almost every pot I have ever done at a workshop in salt, raku, gas
for example, looks better than any pot I make in my electric kiln using
single color electric kiln glazes. This isn't to say you can't get
interesting glazes in an electric kiln, but it takes more work. So I think
that is what people are really looking for when they say "reduction like".
Cindi
Fremont, CA
Pat Southwood on thu 4 sep 03
Hi,
A good post Craig, I agree with all the comments that you made.
Whats with the macho stuff about woodfiring anyway?
If you guys want to nurture something, try waking up every 3 hours to feed
your ( human) babies.
Let the poor women get some sleep for a change.
Resources are finite, if it comes to a choice between keeping people warm
and fed, or firing in a wood kiln, then I know which way I would vote.
I had the good fortune to be able to visit Mashiko in 1999 and was told then
that they should'nt do wood firing because of dwindling resources but that
they "got away with it" because of the rural locations involved.
Euan Craig uses old floor mats, Tatami ? not sure if this is the proper
name, this seems a sensible and reasonable use of a waste material.
I believe the potters in Pondicherry in India had to stop building adobe
houses and using them as huge kilns had to stop because the use of so much
wood was counterproductive.
How many of you woodfirers are planting trees?
B.T.W. what's wrong with attempting to obtain reduction effects in an
electric kiln?
Global Warming affects us all.
Effect, just for the sake of it, is a bit poncey, no ?
Best,
Pat.
pat@southwood4.fsnet.co.uk
Ababi on thu 4 sep 03
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Pat K
Kratzke
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:49 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Oxidation to look like Reduction
Barb, I've seen and used some locally-produced commercial glazes that
give that "reduction look" in an electric kiln, so this is not
impossible.
===================================================
I do not believe to these "magics" You can do it even easier in ^06 with
the Duncan and Gare colors, When you will mix your glazes you will find
adding one material over the other can change the look. The point about
these commercial glazes is that you are not truly know what from they
make them and what for you can use them ......At least in the Middle
East...
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
Anne Wellings on fri 5 sep 03
On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:35:22 -0400, Christy Pines
wrote:
>I agree with Bob. The conversation with an informed pot-buyer might go
something like this:
>
>pot in hand, admiring the glaze, the buyer says to the maker: Was this
fired in a gas kiln? Maker says No, electric, and grins. Wow, says buyer,
it sure looks like it was fired in reduction. Yes, says the maker proudly.
I worked very hard to make it look that way. Isn't it cool???
>
This type of comment from customers happens to me all the time. One woman
even said I was sure doing a good job of getting electric fired work to
look reduction fired. But I never tried to do this; I am using a
commercially prepared clay and commercially prepared glazes and I don't
have the recipes for either. All I did was try them and get an attractive
result. I was certainly never trying to deceive anyone, and my main
response to customers is that it is very possible to get attractive
clay/glaze combinations at ^6 in an electric kiln, and if they end up
looking reduction fired, that's icing on the cake.
I am planning to switch to some new glazes soon and am using a base recipe
from Mastering ^6 Glazes by Hesselberth and Roy, but am testing to find the
percentages and combinations of colorants that I want to use in my work. I
am confident that I will discover very attractive and stable glazes that
people will want to buy on pots, whether they intitially think they're
reduction fired or not.
Anne
Russel Fouts on fri 5 sep 03
Earl,
>> Yeah, it'd be really nice to have a wood kiln, a salt kiln, a raku kiln, shoot, you name it, it'd be nice. BUT I DON"T HAVE THOSE THINGS. Have you noticed the ones that typically don't want you trying to reproduce a look are usually the ones that have the stuff????? <<
Not me! I "grew up" with all of the above and more. The school where I
went was very much into the
hamadaleachcardewanglojapanesehighfiredreductionstoneware ethos. We only
used the electric for bisque. And I loved it.
Now I have an urban studio where I could probably have a gas kiln, if I
wanted one but I don't. I love my electric for what it is and for the
unique potential it has.
Russel
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only
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Mary White on fri 5 sep 03
Yes, Earl, I think you're missing the wink in David's eye . . .
>On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 08:14 AM, David Lane wrote:
>
>>I'm stuck with a gas kiln and all I can fire is reduction pots.
>
>I've never used a gas kiln so am I missing
>something here? I assumed that if you were
>to run the burners with plenty of primary
>air and have sufficient secondary air the kiln
>would have an oxidizing atmosphere.
>
>Am I wrong?
>
>Earl...
>
--
Mary White
HARBOUR PUBLISHING
Box 219
Madeira Park, BC
V0N 2H0
------------------
Publishers of the Encyclopedia of British Columbia.
Visit the Encyclopedia website at http://www.knowbc.com.
Lee Love on sat 6 sep 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> > How many of you woodfirers are planting trees?
> > Global Warming affects us all.
> > Effect, just for the sake of it, is a bit poncey, no ?
> Woodfirers almost use sawmill scrap or deadwood/windfalls,
> or else they do appropriate thinning to allow more desireable species to
> grow.
Friends of ours in Minneapolis send us Video tapes (my request in Star
Trek and Jean's is Antique Roadshow.) Today, we watched a public T.V.
program on "The Greening Of Minnesota." My friends sent this, probably
because I am interested in environmental issues. There was a really
interesting section on St. Paul building a Co-generation plant, which will
make St. Paul the first major City in America to become energy
self-sufficiant. How do they do this? The plant co-generates, meaning,
it generates electricity and as a by-product, it also makes use of the waste
heat to provide hot water heat to the city. The plant generates 80% of
its energy with a wood buring plant that burns local waste wood. This wood
fired plant is 98% effiecent! It can also use natural gas or oil, when it
is cheap. Burning waste wood, that would otherwise be burnt as garbage, is
ecologically sound, because instead of letting the energy vent into the
atmosphere, in a non-effiecent manner, it is being burnt in a boiler that is
much cleaner. A wood kiln is similar, because it burns at a much higher
temperature than an open fire.
Also, wood that is specifically grown as fuel for generators or
kilns are ecologically sound. For each tree you grow, 2/3rds of the
carbon it captures is left in the woods in the form of leaves, bark, scrap
and roots, which release carbon at a very slow rate. Unlike coal, oil or
gas, using wood as fuel can take carbon out of the air.
So, if you use electricity or drive a car, before you get "holier
than thou", you better plant a tree. :^)
Lee In Mashiko
Interested in Wood Firing?
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Ron Roy on sat 6 sep 03
What is missing from this is the fact that - when cooled quickly - most of
the glazes in Mastering loose most of beauty - John has tests on his web
site that show just what a difference cooling has on some glazes.
RR
>In Mastering Glazes you will notice that the glazes all
>have high boron for melt flow and titanium or rutile for
>variegation and lots of different metal oxides. That is
>what makes them interesting. Take any cone 6 glaze, move
>the boron up to 0.8 molar, add rutile and color and you
>will get an interesting glaze (than runs when thick).
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Hank Murrow on sat 6 sep 03
On Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 06:55 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> Snip______
> Also, wood that is specifically grown as fuel for generators or
> kilns are ecologically sound. For each tree you grow, 2/3rds of the
> carbon it captures is left in the woods in the form of leaves, bark,
> scrap
> and roots, which release carbon at a very slow rate. Unlike coal,
> oil or
> gas, using wood as fuel can take carbon out of the air.
Dear Lee;
Living here in the great northwest, I see the forests cut, the bio mass
taken away to be made into products, and the newly planted trees left
to grow on ground that has been depleted of necessary nutrient. It
takes 300 years to grow the big trees the first time, it may take 700
years to grow their second generation grandchildren. The large timber
producers have moved to the southeastern states because they imagine
they can cycle faster in that warmer clime.
However, I do see plots of land managed for the long haul, where mature
trees are left standing until they are cut, small trees are cut and
left to rot, and medium ones are growing towards maturity. Very labor
intensive, but sound practice with no federal support at all. potters
could do it this way if they worked together in large enough groups.
Cheers, Hank
Lee Love on sun 7 sep 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve harrison"
> I don't want to devalue his ideas by summarising them too briefly here,
> but he had the idea dividing the forest into segments so that there
> would always be some old growth forest left for the fauna to survive
> in, such that it could recolonise the new growth forest areas when it
> became viable.
>
The other option is to grow trees where they are not presently growing,
rather than managing what is already there.
There is a type of popluar that matures within 6 years. There was
a plan to create co-generation plants that would have a woodlot adjacent to
the plant to grow its own fuel. In a high effiecenty co-generation plant
like what is being built in St. Paul, you can achieve 98% efficency. The
big plus of a system like this that has a wood lot associated with it, is
that using this fuel means that 2/3rds of the carbon locked up out of the
atmosphere by the trees is left in the woods as roots, bark and leaves.
Wood is a renewable resource, unlike oil, gas or uranium.
Lee In Mashiko
Interested in Wood Firing?
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Debbie Smith on sun 7 sep 03
I'm a beginning potter who also loves the look of reduction fired
glazes. And I totally agree, and want to buy a gas kiln. But it's daunting,
not being a kiln builder or experience kiln operator. My question... is
there a small affordable gas kiln that out there that would fire
reaonably well? Are the small top loading gas kilns really a nightmare
to use? I'd hate to pour my heart into making pieces and then put them
in a kiln with a high likelyhood of destroying them. Would stepping up
to buying a small front loading gas kiln produce a lot better results?
Yikes, the prices. Are they worth it? If I win the lottery, would a small
Geil kiln be pure joy? Would a small Olympic commerical front loading
gas kiln be just as life-affirming at half the price? I know people have
asked this question before, but I never have been able to find many
replys in the archives. I would more than appreciate an advice you can
give me.
Lee Love on sun 7 sep 03
Hi Hank,
You hit the nail on the head. Using trees is not the problem.
The way we use the trees is. Now, if we simply decry the cutting down of
trees, there probably isn't any way to get the ear of the lumber industry.
But if we make it known that we want wood products that are grown in an
ecological manner and this is what we will spend our money on, then we can
have an influence.
Lee In Mashiko
Interested in Wood Firing?
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John Baymore on sun 7 sep 03
I assumed that if you were to run the burners with plenty of primary
air and have sufficient secondary air the kiln would have an oxidizing
atmosphere.
Am I wrong?
Earl,
Nope, not really. You got it.
The only caveats are if the total air supply from both primary and
secondary air were in excess of that needed for combustion AND that the
mixing of fuel and air happened before the partially mixed gases reached
the wares.
In most cases in order to fire oxidation..... you'd want to depend on
primary air for the mixing reasons alone.
One problems here is that many pottters gas kilns have burners that will
not supply excess primary air..... or kilns that have some significant
mixing issues.
But oxidation firing can be done in a fuel fired kiln is the design is
correct.
best,
.....................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
steve harrison on sun 7 sep 03
Hi Hank,
There was an ecologist called Larry Harris working at the University of
Florida a few years back who wrote a book called "The Island Forest".
He had many good ideas about how to manage forests sustainably.
I quoted a little from him in my woodfiring book "Australian Wood
firing"
I don't want to devalue his ideas by summarising them too briefly here,
but he had the idea dividing the forest into segments so that there
would always be some old growth forest left for the fauna to survive
in, such that it could recolonise the new growth forest areas when it
became viable.
Of course that would mean a drop in profits in the short term for the
logging companies, so I assume that it didn't get much attention from
them.
Still, a book worth reading, for those interested.
In fact both books are worth reading.
Best wishes
Steve Harrison
Hot & Sticky Pty Ltd
5 Railway Pde
Balmoral Village
NSW 2571
Australia
http://ian.currie.to/sh/Steve_Harrisons_books.html
>
> However, I do see plots of land managed for the long haul, where mature
> trees are left standing until they are cut, small trees are cut and
> left to rot, and medium ones are growing towards maturity. Very labor
> intensive, but sound practice with no federal support at all. potters
> could do it this way if they worked together in large enough groups.
>
> Cheers, Hank
Norman van der Sluys on mon 8 sep 03
The small top-loaders (or top hat like my Olympic Raku) can give good
results, but they take experimentation. The two difficulties are uneven
heating from top to bottom (a cone to a cone and a half, and rapid
cooling, These kilns are built like electric kilns - 2 1/2" of
insulation. Makes 'em heat up fast, and cool down fast.
The unevenness can be overcome with careful stacking, staggering
shelves, and the use of a baffle shelf as the top layer in the kiln.
The rapid cooling can be combatted by firing down. Both of these
problems suggest the use of a pyrometer = get a digital one. one
capable of reading from two seperate thermocouples would be handy, but
you can always plug and unplug the different sensors or rig a way to
insert the thermocouple through a spy hole.
I have not tried the firing down technique yet - see Mel's posts in the
archives from earlier this summer. I will try it on my next glaze kiln
- hopefully by the end of the month. I'll report to the group on my
results.
I can't help but think the Geil is worth the extra money if you can
afford it - better constructed and more insulation. If you must go on
the cheap, buy a top-loader and save your money for the Geil..What you
learn from that little kiln might lead you down the path of building
your own. Who knows?
Anyway, good luck to you.
Norman van der Sluys
Benona Pottery
near the shore of Lake Michigan - just returned from Great Lakes Clay by
Chicago. I spent my life's savings on a pickup load of clay. Now I
have to get busy and make (and sell!!) pots to recover my fortune!
Debbie Smith wrote:
My question... is
> there a small affordable gas kiln that out there that would fire
> reaonably well? Are the small top loading gas kilns really a nightmare
> to use? I'd hate to pour my heart into making pieces and then put them
> in a kiln with a high likelyhood of destroying them. Would stepping up
> to buying a small front loading gas kiln produce a lot better results?
> Yikes, the prices. Are they worth it? If I win the lottery, would a small
> Geil kiln be pure joy? Would a small Olympic commerical front loading
> gas kiln be just as life-affirming at half the price?
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