john forstall on wed 3 sep 03
Ron Roy,
I've seen your quotation "The Law says..." in several messages. Would you
tell us about your source, book, volume, chapter that deals with labeling
of ceramic objects created by art craftspersons.
Thanks,
John Forstall
in Pensacola Fl.
Ron Roy on sat 6 sep 03
Hi John,
In Canada all handlers and suppliers of materials must label materials
according to a list supplied by the Government - some are to be lab led
toxic, some flammable, some caustic - sometimes all three. The barium
Carbonate must be lab led with a scull and cross bones signifying it is a
poison.
There is a similar set of rules in the Us a - any seller of ceramic
materials has a list and are obliged to label all materials accordingly.
My chief reference for materials is Monona Rossol's book - The Artists
Complete Health and Safety Guide which contains everything you need to know
about art materials to make your work place safe and comply with US and
Canadian right-to-know laws.
Axner will have a copy.
Thanks for asking - RR
>Ron Roy,
>I've seen your quotation "The Law says..." in several messages. Would you
>tell us about your source, book, volume, chapter that deals with labeling
>of ceramic objects created by art craftspersons.
>Thanks,
>John Forstall
> in Pensacola Fl.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Susan Setley on sat 6 sep 03
In a message dated 9/6/03 1:14:35 PM, ronroy@TOTAL.NET writes:
<<
In Canada all handlers and suppliers of materials must label materials
according to a list supplied by the Government - some are to be lab led
toxic, some flammable, some caustic - sometimes all three. The barium
Carbonate must be lab led with a scull and cross bones signifying it is a
poison.
There is a similar set of rules in the Us a - any seller of ceramic
materials has a list and are obliged to label all materials accordingly. >>
On the other hand, labeling really can go too far. I have a young
acquaintance who is a medical student. When he was doing lab research, he noted that the
distilled water came with warnings, including...
If accidentally splashed in eyes, flush with distilled water.
It didn't mean if something IN the distilled water splashed in the eyes... it
was a warning about distilled water.
Ron Roy on mon 8 sep 03
Must have been a typo - distilled water is ideal for diluting anything
corosive that would get into somebodies eyes for instance - standard
material in the emergency eye care station required in the workplace.
It's not a case of labeling going too far - it's a mistake.
RR
>On the other hand, labeling really can go too far. I have a young
>acquaintance who is a medical student. When he was doing lab research, he
>noted that the
>distilled water came with warnings, including...
>
>If accidentally splashed in eyes, flush with distilled water.
>
>It didn't mean if something IN the distilled water splashed in the eyes... it
>was a warning about distilled water.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
David Hewitt on tue 9 sep 03
When I worked in the chemical industry as an engineer I was warned that
distilled water could be corrosive. In view of this and the following
posting I made a search on the subject and turned up the following
reference:-
Distilled water is an active absorber and when it comes into contact
with air, it absorbs carbon dioxide, making it acidic. The more
distilled water a person drinks, the higher the body acidity becomes.
According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, "Distilled water,
being essentially mineral-free, is very aggressive, in that it tends to
dissolve substances with which it is in contact. Notably, carbon dioxide
from the air is rapidly absorbed, making the water acidic and even more
aggressive. Many metals are dissolved by distilled water."
This was on http://www.mercola.com/article/water/water_distilled.htm
Do we have a chemist on Clayart who can give a definitive answer to this
question?
David
In message , Ron Roy writes
>Must have been a typo - distilled water is ideal for diluting anything
>corosive that would get into somebodies eyes for instance - standard
>material in the emergency eye care station required in the workplace.
>
>It's not a case of labeling going too far - it's a mistake.
>
>RR
>
>
>>On the other hand, labeling really can go too far. I have a young
>>acquaintance who is a medical student. When he was doing lab research, he
>>noted that the
>>distilled water came with warnings, including...
>>
>>If accidentally splashed in eyes, flush with distilled water.
>>
>>It didn't mean if something IN the distilled water splashed in the eyes... it
>>was a warning about distilled water.
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________________
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>Ron Roy
>RR#4
>15084 Little Lake Road
>Brighton, Ontario
>Canada
>K0K 1H0
>Phone: 613-475-9544
>Fax: 613-475-3513
--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport,
South Wales, NP18 3DQ.
Tel:- +44 (0) 1633 420647
Fax:- +44 (0) 870 1617274
Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Janice M. Boyd on tue 9 sep 03
This is an internet version of caveat emptor (buyer -or reader- beware). I
searched the EPA website diligently and do not find this quote in any of
their literature. It does not fit the language used in EPA documents, and
is probably fabricated or taken wildly out of context.
Distilled water, in and of itself, is not dangerous. Well maybe if you
can't swim, you could drown in it...
Furthermore, the EPA does not regulate distilled water. It is considered a
food/drink and is regulated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The
focus of their regulation is NOT on the distilled water itself, but on
potential contaminants in what is sold as distilled water.
>
>According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, "Distilled water,
>being essentially mineral-free, is very aggressive, in that it tends to
>dissolve substances with which it is in contact. Notably, carbon dioxide
>from the air is rapidly absorbed, making the water acidic and even more
>aggressive. Many metals are dissolved by distilled water."
>
>This was on http://www.mercola.com/article/water/water_distilled.htm
>
Kenneth D. Westfall on wed 10 sep 03
At 07:51 AM 09/09/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>When I worked in the chemical industry as an engineer I was warned that
>distilled water could be corrosive. In view of this and the following
>posting I made a search on the subject and turned up the following
>reference:-
All water is corrosive to metal ie "rusty water pipes" If it was more
corrosive they would not use it as coolant in nuclear power plants reactor
cores.
>Distilled water is an active absorber and when it comes into contact
>with air, it absorbs carbon dioxide, making it acidic. The more
>distilled water a person drinks, the higher the body acidity becomes.
All water absorbs carbon dioxide, distilled will absorb more because
un-distilled already contains some carbon dioxide. That is not saying it
will hold more carbon dioxide. For all practical proposes they will hole
the same amount.
If drinking distilled water causes body acidity then I should be able to
cut steel with a few tears cause I drink almost nothing but distilled water.
>According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, "Distilled water,
>being essentially mineral-free, is very aggressive, in that it tends to
>dissolve substances with which it is in contact. Notably, carbon dioxide
>from the air is rapidly absorbed, making the water acidic and even more
>aggressive. Many metals are dissolved by distilled water."
Same as above. If its not distilled it already has metal, mineral, and
carbon dioxide in it.
Kenneth D. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
R.D. #2 Box 6AA
Harrisville, WV 26362
kenneth@pinehillpottery.com
http://www.pinehillpottery.com
Dewitt on wed 10 sep 03
At 01:14 AM 9/10/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>At 07:51 AM 09/09/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>>When I worked in the chemical industry as an engineer I was warned that
>>distilled water could be corrosive. In view of this and the following
>>posting I made a search on the subject and turned up the following
>>reference:-
>All water is corrosive to metal ie "rusty water pipes" If it was more
>corrosive they would not use it as coolant in nuclear power plants reactor
>cores.
Dollars to donuts, the coolant pipes are stainless steel which is resistant
to acids, though not immune.
You are right that tap water and distilled water will hold the same amount
of CO2 and would end up with the same pH, EXCEPT that tap water generally
contains other minerals (notably calcium) that neutralize the effect of the
CO2.
The acidity of distilled water is easy to demonstrate with pH test strips.
The ones intended to test the pH of aquarium water are available at your
local pet store.
deg
iandol on thu 11 sep 03
Dear Deg Dewitt,=20
What about dissolved Oxygen? There may not be as much in water, =
distilled, demineralised or otherwise which is exposed to the atmosphere =
as there is carbon dioxide, but it is Oxygen in solution which has such =
a powerful effect in the corrosive rusting of Mild Steel.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Dewitt on fri 12 sep 03
At 01:52 AM 9/11/2003, you wrote:
>Dear Deg Dewitt,
>
>What about dissolved Oxygen? There may not be as much in water, distilled,
>demineralised or otherwise which is exposed to the atmosphere as there is
>carbon dioxide, but it is Oxygen in solution which has such a powerful
>effect in the corrosive rusting of Mild Steel.
>
>Best regards,
>Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Ivor, I'm not clear what you're asking. Yes, oxygen is necessary for
rusting to take place, but any water, regardless of it's purity, will
absorb atmospheric oxygen if given the opportunity. The point of my
original email was simply to explain why distilled water becomes acidic
when exposed to the atmosphere and why tap water often doesn't show the
same effect.
You do raise an interesting question - "Would distilled water with
dissolved CO2 but no dissolved oxygen still be corrosive?" I don't know.
deg
iandol on sat 13 sep 03
Dear Deg,
Chemistry is a fascinating subject. Polished Iron in a dry oxygen =
atmosphere does not corrode. Rust is not a pure Iron oxide but a mixture =
of Iron oxide and hydrated Iron oxide, if my memory serves me true.
Soft Water, that is water with no dissolved Calcium ions( which is "hard =
water") will corrode Lead piping, hot water pipes strongly. No doubt due =
to the effects of Carbon dioxide in solution. As far as I know, Carbonic =
acid cannot be isolated from water.
Best regards,
Ivor.
Louis Katz on sat 13 sep 03
http://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsh/7409.11/26.2-26.34.txt
"Copper should not be used to distribute distilled water"
Too much copper disolves from the pipes and pinholes develop.
Louis
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