clennell on sat 6 sep 03
Sour Cherry Pottery
>
> Thanks Tony. You are among the group of heroic potters making fine pots no
> matter what. I never said that Walmart was competing with potters. That
> wasn't the issue. My premise was that Walmart is killing the unique
> qualities of small town America. That is a fact.
>
> Okay, here I go. I will forever maintain that the rampressers and
> slipcasters are not making handmade wares, unless they are handbuilding
> unique work from rampressed or slipcast components. Otherwise, they are
> mass-producing, and they have no business selling their work next to
> potters/sculptors making their work by hand one piece at a time, ever, in
> any venue.
>
> Those who are "manufacturing" their work via rampressing or slipcasting and
> are selling it as "handmade" in craft shows and fine craft galleries have
> the potential to do serious damage to the market for handmade wares. I just
> hope that they realize the falsehood they are presenting to the public.
Vince: Thanks for the cudo. My take on the men's underwear is that there is
an overall acceptance of standardization. My small town Ontario has had a
face change. If you blindfloded me, spun me in a cirle and then asked me
what town I was in I wouldn't have a clue. Could be any town in my
province. I can't impact that but i am vocal about allowing
standardization/industrialism to creep into my marketplace- the gallery or
juried craft show. Someone shows up with pressed work and i will be at the
front of the line screaming blue bloody murder or if I was cross border it
might be rutile blue bloody murder. If David could post his excellent CM
article on handmade it might be of interest to those unfamiliar with it.
We can be effective at the show/gallery level but we have to speak up on
what we believe handmade to be.
We had a good former potter get a taste of the volume bucks. Took pressed
work to the major Cdn. show. Had cups and bowls pressed at different sizes
to fool the potters. You can shit the fans, but not the players. They ratted
on him. got kicked out of the show. Presented a sworn affadavit from his
lawyer guaranteeing the work was handmade. No way , Jose! He still didn't
get back in and now he has no potter friends. Can't be trusted.
If anyone out there has any former knowledge of the Dinosaur club, I'd be
interested in reading who, what and how that was tried.
There is a good living to be made making individual work. We must make sure
that we surround ourselves with individual work and people that are
interested in making that kind of work. clayart is a damn good starting
point to make change.
all the best,
Tony
Earl Krueger on sat 6 sep 03
Vince and Tony wrote about handmade vs slipcast, rampressed:
My wife has a traveling musical performing group who do
cabaret style shows. The group consists of people of all
ages; high-schoolers to retirees. Several have Masters in
music or music education. (They really are quite good!)
Every Christmas we have an open house and invite anyone
who has participated to come; 30-40 people. Last year I
caught several (~6) well educated, middle aged, middle class
people oohing and aahing over my amatuerish pots. At that
time everything I did was truly hand built since I didn't have
a wheel. They marveled at the fact that I could make a pot as
round and uniform as I did without mechanical assistance.
In the course of discussion I asked if they are willing to pay
more for hand-built items. After some considered discussion
and thought the answer was a unanimous "No".
I guess I was shocked; after all I, and they, knew what it took
for me to make one of those pots. I believe this was a deciding
factor in my acquiring a wheel. If people didn't appreciate
(as evidenced by their willingness to pay) hand built work
then I might as well make it easier on myself. I can see that
these feelings could lead one to use even more mechanization.
I still believe that I can make better pots by handbuilding than
by throwing; definitely have more control. However, being able
to do 10 decent pots a week vs. 1 or 2 has helped me on my
road to understanding glazes.
I would ask; would you carry your arguments about "handbuilt"
vs slipcasting/rampressing to handbuilt vs thrown?
Just some thoughts.
Earl...
Tony Ferguson on sat 6 sep 03
Earl,
The end justifies the means AND the process justifies all else. It doesn't
matter to me what anyone makes as long as they are honest about it and don't
undersell the market. I think it has more to do with letting people know
and educating people about the value of the process and the value of good
work. What makes us mad is when someone who is selling is not upfront with
the buyer about what they are purchasing and its commensurate values.
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake
Custom & Manufactured Kiln Design
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Krueger"
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Blue Bloody Murder
> Vince and Tony wrote about handmade vs slipcast, rampressed:
>
> My wife has a traveling musical performing group who do
> cabaret style shows. The group consists of people of all
> ages; high-schoolers to retirees. Several have Masters in
> music or music education. (They really are quite good!)
>
> Every Christmas we have an open house and invite anyone
> who has participated to come; 30-40 people. Last year I
> caught several (~6) well educated, middle aged, middle class
> people oohing and aahing over my amatuerish pots. At that
> time everything I did was truly hand built since I didn't have
> a wheel. They marveled at the fact that I could make a pot as
> round and uniform as I did without mechanical assistance.
>
> In the course of discussion I asked if they are willing to pay
> more for hand-built items. After some considered discussion
> and thought the answer was a unanimous "No".
>
> I guess I was shocked; after all I, and they, knew what it took
> for me to make one of those pots. I believe this was a deciding
> factor in my acquiring a wheel. If people didn't appreciate
> (as evidenced by their willingness to pay) hand built work
> then I might as well make it easier on myself. I can see that
> these feelings could lead one to use even more mechanization.
>
> I still believe that I can make better pots by handbuilding than
> by throwing; definitely have more control. However, being able
> to do 10 decent pots a week vs. 1 or 2 has helped me on my
> road to understanding glazes.
>
> I would ask; would you carry your arguments about "handbuilt"
> vs slipcasting/rampressing to handbuilt vs thrown?
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Earl...
>
>
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>
Susan Setley on sat 6 sep 03
In a message dated 9/6/03 1:26:07 PM, erkrueger@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
<<
I still believe that I can make better pots by handbuilding than
by throwing; definitely have more control. However, being able
to do 10 decent pots a week vs. 1 or 2 has helped me on my
road to understanding glazes.
I would ask; would you carry your arguments about "handbuilt"
vs slipcasting/rampressing to handbuilt vs thrown? >>
I think you should continue working on the wheel because I think no knowledge
is ever wasted, but you could just make a bunch of small bowls for testing
purposes. I would hate to see you give up on your favored way of working with
the medium because of the impressions of people new to pots.
For myself, I'm not much of a handbuilder. I tried it; my ideas run always to
forms that start on a wheel. They may be altered or have other hand-built
elements, but they start on the wheel. That's how my mind works, even though I
have taken handbuilding classes.
However, some of the handbuilders in our studio produce marvelous,
eye-stopping work that sells well at our sales.
Do what you love and then find a way to sell it.
As for slip-casting -- making a beautiful, artful mold is a real talent in
itself. I have no problem with it. Soomeone in our studio combines
wheel-throwing, use of molds and hand-building to make the most wonderful pieces. I think
art is art if it took artistry and skill to make it. Hers do, and the level of
artistry is obvious in everything she does.
Lee Love on sun 7 sep 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Setley"
n a message dated 9/6/03 1:26:07 PM, erkrueger@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
> <<
> I still believe that I can make better pots by handbuilding than
> by throwing; definitely have more control. However, being able
> to do 10 decent pots a week vs. 1 or 2 has helped me on my
> road to understanding glazes.
>
> I would ask; would you carry your arguments about "handbuilt"
> vs slipcasting/rampressing to handbuilt vs thrown? >>
>
>
> I think you should continue working on the wheel because I think no
knowledge
> is ever wasted, but you could just make a bunch of small bowls for testing
> purposes.
Coil and throw is the traditional way pots were made in Shigikraki.
I coil and throw some of my larger pots. These methods are not exclusive.
Lee In Mashiko
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