Louis Katz on sun 7 sep 03
Dear Chinapaintr3
I do not claim to have any special knowlege in this subject matter but:
.How do you know your manganese level is high. If it is from an M.D.
believe it but get retested to make sure. If the test is from hair
samples, go see an M.D. Do Not use over the counter chelation stuff
sold in health food stores in the U.S.. It could kill you. See and talk
to professionals, Other than that if your levels are really high
enough to cause a problem, get another job as well as medical help.
Good Luck.
Sincerely
Louis
On Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 04:48 PM, beverly potter wrote:
> Dear Calyart,
> I have just found out that I have toxic levels of Manganese. My level
> is 3.4. Close to double the safe amount. I am not a potter but have
> worked in studios for the last 11 years. I have never done Raku
> although my Sister has a moderate business doing Raku. By the way she
> also has elevated levels of Manganese. My job is as a china painter
> in a local art studio. I work with china paints in powder form and
> sit next to the kilns. Within 4 feet of the china fires and 10 feet
> of the green ware and glaze firings. We have garage doors that are
> closed all but 3 inches and an elaborate filter system that changes
> the air in the building every 20 minutes. I also work closely with
> several oils, such as lavender, copaiba and clove. I am trying to
> find out why my level is so high and what I can do about it. I do
> know about chelation and don't know if I can find someone to do it or
> even afford it. How do I go about seeing if this is a L&I claim or if
> it is something that is happening at home? I have begun checking the
> products around the home and all my meds to see if it is there and
> have found nothing yet. My particular hair dye does not. Our water
> hasn't been checked yet but will be soon. I am on city water. I have
> read a lot of your postings and thought that there seems to be several
> posters that are knowledgably about manganese. I am just beginning my
> research for a treatment and cure. A friend of ours, in the business
> has already died from Manganese toxicity and don't want that! Thanks
> to anyone who can help me. Any information is welcome and wanted.
> Sincerely,
> Chinapaintr3
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Edouard Bastarache on sun 7 sep 03
Beverly,
Hoping the following helps.
Laboratory and diagnostic testing in manganese toxicity:
Laboratory or diagnostic test Abnormal finding
Urinary levels >10mg/L (up to 50 mg/L
for occupational
exposure)
Whole blood levels >19mg/L (normal reference,
range 8.0-18.7mg/L)
Serum levels >1.3mg/L (normal reference
range, 0.3-1.3mg/L.
Electroencelographic Low-amplitude, weakened rhythms.
parameters
Neuropsychiatric testing Decreased memory, decreased
reaction time, decreased
motor
coordination.
CT scan, magnetic Radiodense accumulations of
resonance imaging manganese in affected areas,
abnormalities in globus
pallidus,
caudate nucleus, putamen
Positron emission tomography Normal fluorodopa scan
Treatment :
At the beginning of the intoxication, it seems that a chelation treatment
with calcium EDTA may favor an improvement of the clinical picture. At an
advanced stage of the intoxication this treatment is ineffective. In this
case, the treatment is identical to Parkinson's disease (levodopa).The
usefulness of this treatment is however contoversial.
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: beverly potter
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 5:48 PM
Subject: manganese poisoning
Dear Calyart,
I have just found out that I have toxic levels of Manganese. My level is
3.4. Close to double the safe amount. I am not a potter but have worked in
studios for the last 11 years. I have never done Raku although my Sister
has a moderate business doing Raku. By the way she also has elevated levels
of Manganese. My job is as a china painter in a local art studio. I work
with china paints in powder form and sit next to the kilns. Within 4 feet
of the china fires and 10 feet of the green ware and glaze firings. We have
garage doors that are closed all but 3 inches and an elaborate filter system
that changes the air in the building every 20 minutes. I also work closely
with several oils, such as lavender, copaiba and clove. I am trying to find
out why my level is so high and what I can do about it. I do know about
chelation and don't know if I can find someone to do it or even afford it.
How do I go about seeing if this is a L&I claim or if it is something that
is happening at home? I have begun checking the products around the home
and all my meds to see if it is there and have found nothing yet. My
particular hair dye does not. Our water hasn't been checked yet but will be
soon. I am on city water. I have read a lot of your postings and thought
that there seems to be several posters that are knowledgably about
manganese. I am just beginning my research for a treatment and cure. A
friend of ours, in the business has already died from Manganese toxicity and
don't want that! Thanks to anyone who can help me. Any information is
welcome and wanted.
Sincerely,
Chinapaintr3
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
beverly potter on sun 7 sep 03
Dear Calyart,
I have just found out that I have toxic levels of Manganese. My level =
is 3.4. Close to double the safe amount. I am not a potter but have =
worked in studios for the last 11 years. I have never done Raku =
although my Sister has a moderate business doing Raku. By the way she =
also has elevated levels of Manganese. My job is as a china painter in =
a local art studio. I work with china paints in powder form and sit =
next to the kilns. Within 4 feet of the china fires and 10 feet of the =
green ware and glaze firings. We have garage doors that are closed all =
but 3 inches and an elaborate filter system that changes the air in the =
building every 20 minutes. I also work closely with several oils, such =
as lavender, copaiba and clove. I am trying to find out why my level is =
so high and what I can do about it. I do know about chelation and don't =
know if I can find someone to do it or even afford it. How do I go =
about seeing if this is a L&I claim or if it is something that is =
happening at home? I have begun checking the products around the home =
and all my meds to see if it is there and have found nothing yet. My =
particular hair dye does not. Our water hasn't been checked yet but =
will be soon. I am on city water. I have read a lot of your postings =
and thought that there seems to be several posters that are knowledgably =
about manganese. I am just beginning my research for a treatment and =
cure. A friend of ours, in the business has already died from Manganese =
toxicity and don't want that! Thanks to anyone who can help me. Any =
information is welcome and wanted.
Sincerely,
Chinapaintr3
John Baymore on tue 9 sep 03
beverly potter
I have just found out that I have toxic levels of Manganese. My level
is 3.4. Close to double the safe amount. I am not a potter but have
worked in studios for the last 11 years. I have never done Raku
although my Sister has a moderate business doing Raku. By the way she
also has elevated levels of Manganese. My job is as a china painter
in a local art studio. I work with china paints in powder form and
sit next to the kilns. Within 4 feet of the china fires and 10 feet
of the green ware and glaze firings. We have garage doors that are
closed all but 3 inches and an elaborate filter system that changes
the air in the building every 20 minutes. I also work closely with
several oils, such as lavender, copaiba and clove. I am trying to
find out why my level is so high and what I can do about it.
I do not claim to have any special knowlege in this subject matter but:
.How do you know your manganese level is high. If it is from an M.D.
believe it but get retested to make sure. If the test is from hair
samples, go see an M.D. Do Not use over the counter chelation stuff
sold in health food stores in the U.S.. It could kill you. See and talk
to professionals, Other than that if your levels are really high
enough to cause a problem, get another job as well as medical help.
Chinapaintr3,
Louis Katz had some really, REALLY good advice there in his message.
I think your next step might be to talk to a person versed in occupationa=
l
health issues who can give you some advice. One contact I think you need=
to make is talk to Monona Rossol at ACTSNY@cs.com. She is heavily involv=
ed
in the health aspects of the arts, has an MFA in ceramics, is an Industri=
al
Hygenist, has written a few books on the subject, and is held by many
people as one of the prime .....(as we tend to call them here on
CLAYART)....."guru's" on the subject. She is VERY generous with her time=
to artists.... and can likely point you to references and people to conta=
ct
about your situation. I have been teaching a section on basic ceramic
toxicology as part of college level ceramics materials courses since the
late 70's. That is how I first met Monona when I was at Mass College of
Art. She has a wealth of knowledge on this subject.
Manganese poisoning is a difficult thing to diagnose correctly. I know
that Monona has been involved with =
a number of manganese cases over the years.... so she will have a lot mor=
e
information than I do. I strongly believe that such stuff does happen in=
ways that are related to ceramics. Years ago, after a materials class
dealing with toxicology, a student came up to me afterward and privately
told me that he had been having health issues for years that the doctors =
he
was going to =
could not figure out. He said that some of the symptoms that I was talki=
ng
about in that class sounded way too familiar, and that he had been workin=
g
extensively with manganese compounds. I suggested that he talk to
occupational health folks about his concerns. Long story short......... =
turned out that in another art medium he used he ALSO was getting exposed=
to manganese compounds. The Dr.'s felt that the effect of the total
exposure his body was getting is what got him... and he did have manganes=
e
poisoning... confirmed and treated by the mainstream health community.
I find you working for a chinapainting employer and possibly having this
health issue quite interesting. I do some technical ceramics consulting
work professionally. I was doing some glaze development work for a major=
manufacturer of tile and bathroom fixtures quite a while ago.....maybe 15=
years or so. They did a lot of hand china painting on the high end work.=
=
They employed a number of china painters. The materials they had them
using and the manner of the use was pretty appaling. There were pretty
much no considerations or training given about the potential health impac=
ts
to the painters. There was no ventilation for the carrier fumes or dust
(oil based....hand mixed), people were eating and drinking and smoking at=
their work stations, the particular china paints they used were raw lead
based, they freely used cadmium and selenium based colors, no required
employee blood lead monitoring was in place, and on and on.
Once I actually saw a person "pointing" a brush on their tongue!!!!!
This experience has me wondering what the working conditions are like whe=
re
you are working? Do you use manganese containing compounds in your work?=
Do others use them? If you live in the USA your employer has to provid=
e
this information to you under so called "right to know" regulations and
basic haz mat training regs. =
If this really IS occupational related and you are in the USA...... your
health care bills for this are "courtesy" of your employer. (Don't know
squat about other countries situations. ) So don't cut corners checking
this out. If you SUSPECT it is occupational related...... even getting t=
he
actual "rule out" diagnosis would be covered, I think. Check with Monona=
on that detail as to how to approach it. Manganese poisoning is nothing =
to
fool with.
There are some questions your original post does bring up though. The fa=
ct
that your sister aslo has elevated levels leads me to wonder if the
exposure is NOT from your employment. Does she use manganese compounds i=
n
her studio? And of course that is not to say that you might not ALSO =
be
getting it from your job.... and we are back to the total exposure issue.=
=
But it also makes me wonder about WHY the two of you both have been teste=
d
for manganese? Are these occupational health related tests done by
mainstream mediacal professionals....or were they sort of an alternative
medicine approach? WHY were they performed? Metals testing like this is=
NOT typically a routinely ordered procedure at least in traditional
healthcare settings.
May you have the best of luck in straightening this out. Hopefully you'l=
l
find that the test you already had is in error........... and this is jus=
t
an "educational opportunity" .
best,
.......................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
Lily Krakowski on wed 10 sep 03
The Alarmist at work again.
As was pointed out, your high manganese levels coincident with your
sister's, opens the possibility that it is NOT work related. If you have
family, esp. children, consider having them tested too. I know far too
little about MnO2 but I DO know of cases where people blamed their high lead
levels on their work, to find that it actually was for a totally different
and surprising source.
Lili Krakowski
Constableville, N.Y.
Be of good courage....
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