Zoe Paddy Johnson CIRT CSOS on wed 17 sep 03
Or Ceramic Glazing for Dummies? I have decided I need such a book. I have
been slogging thru a book on unity formulas, with lots of words like
"mole" featured prominently. I dimmly remember moles and avogadro's
number from chemistry, but I am getting old, so is there a simple book?
Easily available or inexpensive that explains this stuff?
zoej
Lawrence Ewing on thu 18 sep 03
Hi Zoe,
Try this website:
http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/GlazeTeach/Index.htm
Lawrence Ewing
Senior Lecturer
School of Art
Otago Polytechnic
Dunedin
New Zealand
EMAIL: lewing@clear.net.nz
URLS:
Matrix Glaze Software:
http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz
Glaze Chemistry Instruction:
http://www.Matrix2000.co.nz/GlazeTeach/Index.htm
New Zealand Society of Potters website:
http://www.nzPotters.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zoe Paddy Johnson CIRT CSOS"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 10:36 AM
Subject: The complete idiot's guide to glazing
> Or Ceramic Glazing for Dummies? I have decided I need such a book. I have
> been slogging thru a book on unity formulas, with lots of words like
> "mole" featured prominently. I dimmly remember moles and avogadro's
> number from chemistry, but I am getting old, so is there a simple book?
> Easily available or inexpensive that explains this stuff?
> zoej
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Burness Speakman on fri 19 sep 03
Glazing for Dummies. Practical experience, I absolutely agree with you.
Who cares about all that "stuff". I don't. I'm with you.
Sure there will be some intellectual who will disagree though.
Bunny
wayneinkeywest on fri 19 sep 03
Ababi:
The comment you made below is not fair.
There are some people for whom chemistry
does NOT come easily. I am one of them.
For people like me, we need books to tell
us where to begin, and how to fix what we
do wrong.
For others, who would buy pre-made glazes,
they might be only recreational potters, and
do not have the time or the space in which
to set up a complete lab, or maybe enough
money to buy all the ingredients.
To say that we are lazy or idiots is arrogant.
Wayne in Key West
> The complete idiot can buy ready to use glazes. The complete lazy will
> buy glaze books or better to say recipes books.
>
> Ababi Sharon
> Glaze addict
> Kibbutz Shoval Israel
Suzanne Tourtillott on fri 19 sep 03
As a matter of fact, John Britt and Lark Books will publish a book on
high-fire glazes that explains the jargon and process of glaze
chemistry in a straightforward way--even UMF! The book is scheduled
to come out in the Fall of 2004...a long way off, but it will be worth the
wait. Tons of recipes, all personally tested by the author.
Suzanne Tourtillott, Ceramics Editor
spam.goes.here on fri 19 sep 03
Let's hope it isn't released TOO soon and is proof-read a lot better
than both the first and second editions of "The Ceramics Glaze handbook"
by Mark Burleson, also published by Lark.
My so-called corrected second edition still has some quite obvious
errors which should have been detected in the corrected edition and
comes with no guarantee that e.g. any of the glaze recipes are correct;
I understand they too were riddled with errors in the first edition and
one cannot assume with confidence that they have been properly corrected
either. Lark say that this is the author's responsibility, not theirs:
perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't.
The fact remains that there are blatant errors and perhaps hidden ones
too, the latter making it a gamble to use any of the glaze recipes or
indeed follow any of the technical advice without double-checking a
reliable or proven source. Bah! It was not a cheap book.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Suzanne
> Tourtillott
> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 2:07 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: The complete idiot's guide to glazing
>
> As a matter of fact, John Britt and Lark Books will publish a book on
> high-fire glazes that explains the jargon and process of glaze
> chemistry in a straightforward way--even UMF! The book is scheduled
> to come out in the Fall of 2004...a long way off, but it will be worth
the
> wait. Tons of recipes, all personally tested by the author.
> Suzanne Tourtillott, Ceramics Editor
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
__
> ____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Ababi on fri 19 sep 03
The complete idiot can buy ready to use glazes. The complete lazy will
buy glaze books or better to say recipes books.
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
.
Ababi on sat 20 sep 03
To Steve Slatin.
No I do not. It was in the subject of the letter and I am sorry I used
it. I should delete this thread at all.
I do not even know you!
And I hate this new terminology in clayart.
Crap and idiots.
If there was another list in this level I would go instead. I wish Mel
would delete letters with those kind of words!
See what it leads to!
Ababi
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Slatin [mailto:slatin@attglobal.net]
So you're saying that since I'm a lazy idiot I should buy ready-to-use
Books?
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: The complete idiot's guide to glazing
The complete idiot can buy ready to use glazes. The complete lazy will
buy glaze books or better to say recipes books.
Susan Setley on sat 20 sep 03
In a message dated 9/20/03 7:19:08 AM, wayneinkeywest@BELLSOUTH.NET writes:
<< Ababi:
The comment you made below is not fair.
There are some people for whom chemistry
does NOT come easily. I am one of them.
For people like me, we need books to tell
us where to begin, and how to fix what we
do wrong.
For others, who would buy pre-made glazes,
they might be only recreational potters, and
do not have the time or the space in which
to set up a complete lab, or maybe enough
money to buy all the ingredients.
To say that we are lazy or idiots is arrogant.
Wayne in Key West >>
I agree with you. Many people don't even have their own studios. Where I
throw, we haven't had a class on making glazes in some years. Now we have one,
but there's also something else I want to take, and I have neither time nor
money for two classes.
So I'm a glaze leech. I see a new glaze on someone else's pot and ask for the
recipe. The truth is that the most individual, beautiful glaze in the world
won't help a pot that's badly made, and if you have a well-made piece you can
put any number of glazes on it and have it look good.
So I am concentrating on clay skills, not glaze making. And I'm a lot of
things -- but I'm not lazy.
Ababi on sat 20 sep 03
You are right I am truly sorry!
I was dumb
And it is not the way I am.
I used the subject, the silly subject.
A person like me, very sensitive one - should not write it.
By the way, I repeat here (again and again) According to my education I
can be a bellboy: I know English and I have a sense of humor!
(I finished two years of high school). When I am going to Write TiO2 I
open Matrix to be sure I have written correct, If I will write in a
letter B2O5 , it will not be a new oxide just was too lazy to check.
In Hopper Rhodes book is written:(In my words) We are not making
something new chemically, we just cook! Is think the writer is write!
By the way: In order to understand better I bought "the Ceramics Science
to the Potter by Lawrence and West. I do struggle now with the first
chapter. I had to read it three times in order to say I understand it
(somehow)!
I hope I shall not fall again to these impolite holes!
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
wayneinkeywest
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 4:13 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: The complete idiot's guide to glazing
Ababi:
The comment you made below is not fair.
There are some people for whom chemistry
does NOT come easily. I am one of them.
For people like me, we need books to tell
us where to begin, and how to fix what we
do wrong.
For others, who would buy pre-made glazes,
they might be only recreational potters, and
do not have the time or the space in which
to set up a complete lab, or maybe enough
money to buy all the ingredients.
To say that we are lazy or idiots is arrogant.
Wayne in Key West
> The complete idiot can buy ready to use glazes. The complete lazy will
> buy glaze books or better to say recipes books.
>
> Ababi Sharon
> Glaze addict
> Kibbutz Shoval Israel
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
wayneinkeywest on sat 20 sep 03
Ababi:
That is quite alright. Everyone should be allowed the momentary slipup.
(Refer to the "RR" vs "rr" posts to see _my_ latest.)
I do appreciate your taking time to write for all of us
and share your considerable knowledge. There are times
I haven't a clue what you are writing about, but that is from my
lack of knowledge, not your English!
That said...
if you do manage to fall into those "impolite holes" again, since I am
already there, I will do what I can to break (stop) your fall :>)
Best regards,
Wayne in Key West
> You are right I am truly sorry!
> I was dumb
> And it is not the way I am.
> I used the subject, the silly subject.
> A person like me, very sensitive one - should not write it.
> By the way, I repeat here (again and again) According to my education I
> can be a bellboy: I know English and I have a sense of humor!
> (I finished two years of high school). When I am going to Write TiO2 I
> open Matrix to be sure I have written correct, If I will write in a
> letter B2O5 , it will not be a new oxide just was too lazy to check.
>
> In Hopper Rhodes book is written:(In my words) We are not making
> something new chemically, we just cook! Is think the writer is write!
> By the way: In order to understand better I bought "the Ceramics Science
> to the Potter by Lawrence and West. I do struggle now with the first
> chapter. I had to read it three times in order to say I understand it
> (somehow)!
> I hope I shall not fall again to these impolite holes!
>
> Ababi Sharon
> Glaze addict
> Kibbutz Shoval Israel
John Baymore on sun 21 sep 03
This general "glazing" discussion here on CLAYART will get me up on the
soapbox . The whole "glazing problem" we so often hear about is, to m=
e,
a bit of a "pet peeve" as to the way I have seen many of our educational
institutions approach teaching ceramics.
We spend countless hours with forming processes. We learn to handbuild. =
We learn to throw. We learn to cast. We learn to look at forms. And on=
and on. We spend hours and hours doing this stuff. We labor at it. As =
we
approach this aspect of learing the craft of our art......... we (all to=
o
often but) quite rightly learn to take "the hammer" to the peices that ar=
e
not "up to snuff". The hammer blow falls lightly on the greenware.......=
it is so easy to break. And as we repeatedly break it so often, it gets
easier and easier. And so we go back to forming... and forming.... and
forming. And more forming. The clay goes round and round through the
endless cycle of make and slake. And we learn to both make and see bette=
r
and better and better forms. And the "lesser" of the forms ....... they
quickly find their way to the slop bucket and back into rebirth.
This is all well and good as to the learning of forming techniques and
training the eye about form. BUT........ it leaves the REST of the proce=
ss
totally out in the cold.
So a person learning clay gets to a point that they have some reasonable
forming skills and a decent eye. And then, because they have hardly glaz=
ed
or decorated much at all by this point,.... they totally botch up a
reasonable form because they have no experience in glaze application,
relating surface enrichment to form, relating firing to surface results,
and so on. Net result...... =
nice well crafted form ruined by poor integration of surface to form and/=
or
bad technical handling of the glazing and/or firing. Or more likely a bi=
t
of all of them . Somehow the hammer blow is a little harder to make o=
n
this object .... because under it all ........ the potter knows ......lie=
s
a good form. And so rarely does he/she see a finish fired piece. And so=
rarely does he return one to join the rocks of the earth. So maybe the
fired piece sits around because the form underneath was won thru long and=
persistent effort. And the beginnings of an attitude of preciousness and=
attachment to a fired piece begins to develop.
Those here on CLAYART who have been at this for a while know that
eventually there comes a time that a sort of "reverse flow" in the creati=
ve
process develops. Eventually, as you are forming..... you are relating t=
he
finished, surface embellished
, glazed , fired concepts into the forming process itself. So the
finishing steps are not somehow separate and an "add on".... but help
dictate what you are doing in the forming. It is all part of one
totality. When surface enrichment and glazing =
and firing skills and understanding lag behind the forming issues so
badly...... this "ah-HA" point where =
the totality of the process sneaks up and kicks you in the head gets
delayed further than it normally could or should be.
=
As all of us here on CLAYART likely already know.... ceramics as an art
form is only truly successful in its outcome when a whole bunch of formin=
g,
decorating, and technical processes all come together at the same time.
But how do people learn to glaze if they hardly glaze any wares? How do
you learn to decorate in 3-D space if you don't decorate? How do you lea=
rn
to fire a kiln if you don't fire kiln loads? And so on. We KNOW what it=
takes to learn the forming processes well...... why do we tend to forget
this when it comes to the rest of it?
While recycling most of the "less then great" clay at the greenware state=
is certainly good for the old ceramics budget bottom line..... it totall=
y
shortchanges the possibility of learning the aspects of the field that
FOLLOW the forming issues. It shortchanges the learner. While it is
certainly more "ecological" for the world to recylce the clay green rathe=
r
than to fire it....... maybe the relationship between form and surface wi=
ll
come quicker to the artist if there were more opportunities earlier on in=
the learning process to work on integrating these aspects. Maybe less we=
ak
finished ware would end up being kept..... if finished ware were not the
exception rather than the rule. Maybe in the very long term end..... les=
s
ware would end up being fired.....and what was getting fired would improv=
e
more quickly. =
God knows there would likely be less frustration for the aspiring potter =
in
the long run.
Personally, as a teacher...... I think the majority of the "hammer critiq=
ue
session" about the work should come on the unloading of the finish fire
kiln. One should learn the LIBERAL application of the hammer at THAT
appropriate point . Doing this often also has the benefit of making t=
he
end product of fired work less "precious" to the maker....... encouraging=
more risk taking in all aspects of the process. Finish fired pieces woul=
d
not be so special just because they are actual finish fired peices...... =
a
rarely seen "appartition". I think if one takes this kind of approach, t=
he
skills of forming and glazing and decorating would not tend to get so "ou=
t
of whack" as they seem to now. And the potter would be more open to
calling a piece out of the finish firing "stillborn" and putting it to
rest.
Don't get me wrong here ... I am not saying that every piece that is made=
should go all the way to fired completion .... but that a reasonable flow=
of work should go totally thru the whole process. In all too many
educational situations (whether that be carft center, college, or private=
studio) that I have seen.... I don't think this is true at all. And wh=
en
I visit studios and give workshops and such..... I constantly hear about
people's frustrations =
when it comes to learning glazing and surface enhancement in general . M=
y
first question to them is asking about the relationship between =
how many peioces they have maed out of wet clay..... and how many they ge=
t
out of the kiln. =
And a a side benefit....... the mosaic artist would love us .
Off the soapbox.
best,
.....................john
PS: Ready to be "blasted" by the ecologists and the "beancounters". =
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
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