Malcolm Schosha on sat 20 sep 03
There is something that has puzzled me since I first started making
pottery.
Over the years I have known many painters. Some of them mix their own
paints and some don't. But I have NEVER heard it implied that there
is anything inferior about paintings made with good quality
commercial paints. Painters just do not think in those terms.
How is it that potters have come to believe that there is something
inherently superior about making one's own glazes?
I realize that if one wants an ash glaze, this can not be ordered out
of a catalog. But for many uses there are glazes that can be used
either altered or unaltered. I have seen potters, making their own
glazes, who are handling some rather dangerous raw materials in all
too casual a way. Believe me guys, some of this stuff can make you
very sick. Commercial manufactures have the equipment and knowhow to
deal with the raw materials safely. They also are frequently making
their glazes frited, so some of the worst risks of handling these
marerials are reduced.
No matter what the source of your glazes, it is the way you use the
glazes that determines the quality of your pottery.
Malcolm
Cindi Anderson on sat 20 sep 03
I have never heard anyone complain about the use of commercial glazes for
"painting" on clay; that is, detailed painting such as a painter would do.
Because then the "art" on the surface takes skill. So in this direct
comparison to painters, I don't think potters are any different.
The complaint only seems to be when people use an all-over glaze. In these
circumstances, it seems that the glaze is a large % of the "art" contained
in the piece. Any many potters see that creating/modifying/using the glaze
is part of the art form in this case. So it is viewed by some as cheating
to use a commercial all-over glaze.
My pesonal feeling is mixed. There is much to learn to ceramics; I believe
one has to learn in stages or they will lose their mind. So maybe they
start with form for a few years, finishing the form with commercial glazes.
I don't see a problem with this. Or if people are doing ceramics as a
hobby, not selling commercially. Again no problem. In fact, there are more
examples. Some professional potters finish their work with matt black
glaze, and to be honest it doesn't matter to me if it is commercial or not,
because you can't tell the difference. However if someone continues in
ceramics for a long time, particularly as a professional selling their work,
I have a hard time respecting a piece when I see an all-over glaze I can
recognize as a commercial glaze. It just seems to me that if one is in this
for a while, and truly trying to improve their art, they will want their own
glazes which perfectly complement their forms.
Cindi
Fremont, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
> Over the years I have known many painters. Some of them mix their own
> paints and some don't. But I have NEVER heard it implied that there
> is anything inferior about paintings made with good quality
> commercial paints. Painters just do not think in those terms.
Lois Ruben Aronow on sat 20 sep 03
There are a number of things that people consider "real", and glaze
making is one of them. =20
There are advantages to both commercial and "handmade" glazes, and
there are drawbacks to both. Neither are wrong. And neither are
right. Do whatever works for you.
There are far more advantages to mixing your own glazes, as you can
achieve many different colors, textures and effects. You can also
achieve a perfect fit on your particular clay body, thus eliminating
crawling, crazing, or other flaws and defects. Mixing your own glazes
tends to be alot cheaper, especially if you are using large quantities
of it. Control - you have lots of it when you mix your own. And
variety.
Commercial glazes are, of course, convenient. Also, they are loaded
up with gums, do they are super easy to brush on. You can get some
special effects (such as with the river rock glazes) that would be
tough to achieve otherwise. The downside is that you are limited to
color, fit, and availability. Also, if you dip your work, you'd need
an awful lot of it, which would be a nuisance, not to mention costly.
I know some of them come in powder form, but not all. And then, of
course, you'd need to pay for shipping.
> I have seen potters, making their own
>glazes, who are handling some rather dangerous raw materials in all
>too casual a way. Believe me guys, some of this stuff can make you
>very sick. Commercial manufactures have the equipment and knowhow to
>deal with the raw materials safely. They also are frequently making
>their glazes frited, so some of the worst risks of handling these
>marerials are reduced.
As far as safety goes, many potters do indeed handle their chemicals
responsibly. Safety is discussed at length here on ClayArt. I was
lucky - my first pottery instruction also included studio cleanup and
safety, so learned good habits from the get-go. Yes, some of it can
make you sick or worse. Latex gloves and a respirator are essential,
as are good containers with locking lids. =20
>
>No matter what the source of your glazes, it is the way you use the
>glazes that determines the quality of your pottery.
>
Amen!
************
www.loisaronow.com
=46ine Craft Porcelain and Pottery
New Work for Summer 2003
New Show and Retail information
Ron Roy on sun 21 sep 03
Hi Malcolm,
Lots of good answers on this - I just have a few points to add.
Because we make pots there is a whole different aspect when compared to
painting. We must consider that food is involved with our functional ware.
Painters don't have to be concerned with this at all - so they don't need
to know what is in the paint - although there is some danger, sometimes,
for themselves.
If you buy glazes you know very little about what is in them, how they will
fit your clay and how durable they are. And you have to work in the dark if
you need to change em.
There is some information in our book regarding stability of some
commercial glazes by the way - an example of one that changes colour after
only one hour with a slice of lemon on it - and it is sold as a "food safe"
glaze.
My point is - if you are serious about getting the stability and fit right
there is only one way to go - mix your own - so you can make adjustments to
get it right. Flexability is one of the main reasons for making and mixing
you own glazes.
I have done some work over the years on commercial glazes with my
dilatometer. Most comercial glaze makers seem to be totally unconcerned
with expansion/contraction of their glazes. It's how they look is the main
concern.
So just to twist your statement around a bit - potters should believe that
superior glazes are best when they are meant to come in contact with food.
Part of the job if you make functional ware.
Remember as well that when you use a dangerous material at least you can
take precautions - if you buy glazes you don't know what is in them so you
may have a false sense of security.
I have to admit that many potters seem completely unaware of the hazards
with some glaze materials - but at least they can inform themselves. If you
buy your glazes you will have to assume the worst with all of them.
RR
>Over the years I have known many painters. Some of them mix their own
>paints and some don't. But I have NEVER heard it implied that there
>is anything inferior about paintings made with good quality
>commercial paints. Painters just do not think in those terms.
>
>How is it that potters have come to believe that there is something
>inherently superior about making one's own glazes?
>
>I realize that if one wants an ash glaze, this can not be ordered out
>of a catalog. But for many uses there are glazes that can be used
>either altered or unaltered. I have seen potters, making their own
>glazes, who are handling some rather dangerous raw materials in all
>too casual a way. Believe me guys, some of this stuff can make you
>very sick. Commercial manufactures have the equipment and knowhow to
>deal with the raw materials safely. They also are frequently making
>their glazes frited, so some of the worst risks of handling these
>marerials are reduced.
>
>No matter what the source of your glazes, it is the way you use the
>glazes that determines the quality of your pottery.
>
>Malcolm
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Janet Kaiser on sun 21 sep 03
This is a bit like asking the chef at a famous five-star
restaurant, internationally acclaimed for its top-class cuisine,
"what is wrong with using hollandaise sauce out of a bottle?"
If the chef feels magnaminous, the answer will be fine for a
midnight feast of tuna fish and mayo when suffering an attack of
the munchies (as he did himself on occasion when a young commi
chef), but not over his dead body in his kitchen, when his
creation is going to be served to his very discerning customers
as well as the miff-graff who could not tell the difference
between the sushi-grade tuna fresh from market and the stuff out
of a can...
However, which answer would you prefer, Malcolm presuming you
were asking a genuine question and not merely seeking collusion?
A: They are control freaks.
B: They are masocists and cannot help themselves
C: They are master, student, professor, newbie potters who know
no different
D: They have developed beyond the scope of commercial glazes
E: They see the glaze as just one part of the whole making
process
F: It is fun
G: It is a challenge
H: It provides the final layer/finishing touch of their personal
creativity and expression, figuratively and physically.
I: It is the only way of achieving *exactly* what the potter
wants, not an ersatz make-do solution
J. It is the difference between tailor-made and off the peg
clothes or hand piped and roll-out frosting on the cake... Yes,
the egg and oil hollandaise sauce and and not Hellman's own mayo
K: It is cheaper for production potters
L: Consistency and instant availability with only the problems
caused by slight changes in raw materials (commercial glazes can
be discontinued according to fashion)
M: The inexhaustible ability to tweak and change
N: The diminished likelihood of pots made by others appearing
with exactly the same glaze at a show, like appearing at a party
and waring exactly the same dress as the hostess (see J).
O: They are closet alchemists
P: It reaches the parts commercial glazes cannot reach...
(sorry, a take on a famous beer commercial in the UK)
Oh, and BTW just because someone else is mixing the glaze, does
not mean that it makes it "safer" for the potter to use... Once a
slut always a slut IMO
Otherwise you are quite right. It does not matter what or how one
glazes. However the uniformity of the same glaze as used by Tom,
Dick and Harry does detract from the overall impact their work
will have. In the specialist ceramic world, a uniform glaze is
good for the manufacturer but not for the individual who
ultimately wants his/her work to stand out from the crowd and
look different, not the same. Most of us who went through college
soon started on the glaze trail for the very reason that having
our "works of art" all dressed in the same clothes (the
ready-mixed college glazes) was "inherently boring" to us and was
an unnecessary distraction / detraction. It was like looking at
an interesting landscape covered in a layer of snow or groups
children all dressed in a uniform... Yes, the differences were
potentially there, tall, short, fat, skinny, bold, quiet, strong,
weak... but they were not exhibiting their true colours as it
were.
This is exactly the same with commercial glazes... because of the
very quality which makes them an attractive option: i.e. they are
fool-proof and standardised. Uniformity no matter whose is the
work underneath...
But IMO it is the variations between the glazes as potters
develop "standard recipes" to suit and augment their own work
which makes them "inherently superior". This tailoring of wants
and needs can only be done by the tried and tested d.i.y. method.
Even tweaking commercial glazes cannot fully satisfy... They want
their pots clothed in the right ware. Another reason BTW for
choosing the correct firing method/fuel. Not some in-built
snobbery or superiority complex!
Seems to me that those using commercial glazes are not "wrong",
"inferior" or anything like that, but they are still at a stage
of their development where the pot and the processes are still
seen as separate parts in constructing a finished piece. Just
means to an end. A pot needs to be glazed. Let's see... What
looks good/appeals to me in the catalogue? Ah, yes I like the
look of that finish. That is fine until you start pushing
onwards... This glaze by XYZ & Co is all well and good, but if
only it was glossier/matter/darker/thinner/bluer/waxier/whatever
I am sure my work would look better. That is the stage at which
commercial glazes start to be seen as not quite up to par... Not
better or worse, just not sufficient...
The glaze maker and developer truly is exactly like the artist
mixing paints and developing his/her own palette (= preferred
range of colours) which will help to distinguish them and their
work just as much as what they paint and the style in which they
do so. They are not using primary colours straight from the tube
just as the advanced potter does not use glaze straight from the
catalogue. Same difference. And not the analogy of grinding
pigments and mining minerals!
It is not only the "quality" of the glaze which determines the
finished "quality" of the pot, but it's suitability as part of
the whole.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser ...still thinking about Wayne's weight-lifting
Arnold Schwarenegger-eat-your-heart-out slugs... Far worse than
any aracnids... Ick...
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
>How is it that potters have come to believe that there is
something
>inherently superior about making one's own glazes?
>
>I realize that if one wants an ash glaze, this can not be
ordered out
>of a catalog. But for many uses there are glazes that can be
used
>either altered or unaltered. I have seen potters, making their
own
>glazes, who are handling some rather dangerous raw materials in
all
>too casual a way. Believe me guys, some of this stuff can make
you
>very sick. Commercial manufactures have the equipment and
knowhow to
>deal with the raw materials safely. They also are frequently
making
>their glazes frited, so some of the worst risks of handling
these
>marerials are reduced.
>
>No matter what the source of your glazes, it is the way you use
the
>glazes that determines the quality of your pottery.
*** THE MAIL FROM Malcolm Schosha ENDS HERE ***
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The top posted mail was sent by Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art : Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : Wales : UK
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Home of The International Potters' Path
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 http://www.the-coa.org.uk
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