Craig Martell on tue 23 sep 03
Malcolm sez:
> >Porcelain clay turns into mush after just a few
> > minutes.
and then Vince sez:
>Malcolm -
>You're right about throwing porcelain, of course,
Hi:
The above stuff is an overkill. Lets kick some tires and talk turkey.
For the record, I've thrown porcelain as a full time potter for over 20
years. All I'm saying here is that I've had quite a bit of experience with
many different kaolins and porcelains. Porcelain does not turn to mush in
a matter of minutes. You do have to be sort of decisive about what you are
making and you shouldn't beat around the bush when addressing some forms
but it's not a frantic race to finish the pot before it collapses. The
keyword here is frantic. Take it easy, rib off some of the slip and
relax. Everything is going to be just fine. If things get tense, pull out
the hair dryer or the propane torch and buy a little more time.
There has been a lot of work done with porcelain bodies and they are
getting much better in terms of workability and green strength. I've
thrown stoneware clays that are harder to work with than porcelain. You
can have excellent throwing porcelains and hard to work with
stonewares. It depends on who made the bodies, what materials they used,
how the clays were prepared, age, etc. Throwing technique is a big deal
with any claybody and porcelain is no exception. Porcelain has it's own
set of rules and little lives that it goes through on the way to becoming a
finished piece. It takes time and patience to learn any of this, years and
years in fact.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Lori Leary on wed 24 sep 03
Oops! Don't want to lead anyone astray...I meant to write,"I've never had a
problem with the rim being marred enough that I couldn't fix it afterward".
Lori L.
> ... Try it and see. I've never had a problem with the rim being
> marred...
Malcolm Schosha on wed 24 sep 03
Craig,
Of course preferences in the qualities of throwing clays varies a lot
between potters. Experience and training (if any) make a big
difference too. I wrote this for a guy who was having some trouble.
Could be he is using too much water, too much pressure; could be a
lot of things. Perhaps you could make some suggestions.
In any case I would like to see you throw a 12" x 6" cylinder in
porcelain and lift it off the wheel head (no bat) when it is
finished. I can do this with a good throwing clay
Malcolm
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Craig Martell wrote:
> Malcolm sez:
> > >Porcelain clay turns into mush after just a few
> > > minutes.
> and then Vince sez:
> >Malcolm -
> >You're right about throwing porcelain, of course,
>
> Hi:
> The above stuff is an overkill. Lets kick some tires and talk
turkey.
>
> For the record, I've thrown porcelain as a full time potter for
over 20
> years. All I'm saying here is that I've had quite a bit of
experience with
> many different kaolins and porcelains. Porcelain does not turn to
mush in
> a matter of minutes. You do have to be sort of decisive about what
you are
> making and you shouldn't beat around the bush when addressing some
forms
> but it's not a frantic race to finish the pot before it collapses.
The
> keyword here is frantic. Take it easy, rib off some of the slip and
> relax. Everything is going to be just fine. If things get tense,
pull out
> the hair dryer or the propane torch and buy a little more time.
>
> There has been a lot of work done with porcelain bodies and they are
> getting much better in terms of workability and green strength.
I've
> thrown stoneware clays that are harder to work with than
porcelain. You
> can have excellent throwing porcelains and hard to work with
> stonewares. It depends on who made the bodies, what materials they
used,
> how the clays were prepared, age, etc. Throwing technique is a big
deal
> with any claybody and porcelain is no exception. Porcelain has
it's own
> set of rules and little lives that it goes through on the way to
becoming a
> finished piece. It takes time and patience to learn any of this,
years and
> years in fact.
>
> regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
>
>
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Craig Martell on wed 24 sep 03
Malcolm responded:
>Perhaps you could make some suggestions.
Hello Malcolm:
Ok, I will, but first I have to throw some pots today.
>In any case I would like to see you throw a 12" x 6" cylinder in
>porcelain and lift it off the wheel head (no bat) when it is
>finished. I can do this with a good throwing clay
Drop by the studio anytime and I'll be glad to do this for you. I charge a
small admission fee for demos though. :^) You have to bring a bottle of
India Ale.
Ok, do you mean 12 high by 6 wide, or 6 high by 12 wide? I usually use
bats because I have a lot of them and it's not a big deal. If I lift the
larger cylinders, I use the Mick Casson technique of wetting the rim and
sealing the opening with a piece of newsprint. The trapped air keeps the
walls from depressing when I apply gentle force. I also rib the outer wall
dry. I wouldn't lift a 12 diameter cylinder though, I'd use a bat.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
david mcbeth on wed 24 sep 03
>
>In any case I would like to see you throw a 12" x 6" cylinder in
>porcelain and lift it off the wheel head (no bat) when it is
>finished. I can do this with a good throwing clay
>
Somebody, with some level of authority said once, "This porcelain is mush,
its like throwing with mash potatoes!" And that became the gospel. The
art world is packed full with mythology. Any crappy claybody is hard to
throw with. A really good claybody will almost thrown it's self. I spent
much of last Saturday astride an old Amaco kickwheel, which is almost a
sweet as my Lockerbie kick, in a traditional skills festival, on uneven
ground, throwing 10 to 14 inch by 4" porcelain bottles. Some will be
translucent when they come out of the glaze firing. No bats and only one
went whopper-jawed and that because I tossed it into the air to pour out
some water from inside.
My studio address is 330 B Gooch Hall, The University of Tennessee at
Martin, Martin, Tenessee; come by any time - I love to throw pots and meet
other potters.
Now off the throw the 12 x 6 mentioned above. I'll post a picture of the
pot ASAP.
dave
David McBeth, MFA
Professor of Art
Assistant Director of Honors Programs
330 B Gooch Hall
The University of Tennessee at Martin
Martin, Tennessee 38238
731-587-7416
Malcolm Schosha on wed 24 sep 03
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Craig Martell wrote:
> Malcolm responded:
> >Perhaps you could make some suggestions.
>
I use the Mick Casson technique of wetting the rim and
> sealing the opening with a piece of newsprint. The trapped air
keeps the > walls from depressing when I apply gentle force. >
>
..........................................
Craig,
You stick paper on the mouth? That must leave the mouth of the pot
with a really beautiful finish! Is is a joke, right?
I have seen Casson's book. He would not get hired to throw in Italia.
Malcolm
Susan Setley on wed 24 sep 03
In a message dated 9/24/03 3:02:02 PM, malcolmschosha@YAHOO.COM writes:
<<
Craig,
You stick paper on the mouth? That must leave the mouth of the pot
with a really beautiful finish! Is is a joke, right? >>
Malcolm, it doesn't leave anything behind that can't be very easily fixed.
Have you tried it?
Lori Leary on wed 24 sep 03
Malcolm,
No joke! Try it and see. I've never had a problem with the rim being
marred.
No kidding! Casson couldn't get hired in Italia? Now, *that's* a joke,
right?
Lori L.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
> You stick paper on the mouth? That must leave the mouth of the pot
> with a really beautiful finish! Is is a joke, right?
>
> I have seen Casson's book. He would not get hired to throw in Italia.
_____________________________________________
Susan Setley on wed 24 sep 03
In a message dated 9/24/03 7:57:48 PM, lleary@EPIX.NET writes:
<< Malcolm,
No joke! Try it and see. I've never had a problem with the rim being
marred.
No kidding! Casson couldn't get hired in Italia? Now, *that's* a joke,
right?
Lori L. >>
I know a production potter who uses lids from things like big yogurt cartons
to secure the rim. He cuts the center out but leaves the L-shaped edge and
puts it over the lip. This prevents the lip from accidentally being distorted as
he continues to work on the rest of the piece.
Then he removes the plastic lip, which of course mars the lip. So ... he does
a little finishing work on the lip.
Lee Love on thu 25 sep 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
> I have seen Casson's book. He would not get hired to throw in Italia.
But would he want to throw for them? :^) Here in Mashiko,
sometimes Shokunin (master craftsmen) do not understand artist potters.
They are birds of a different feather.
Hamada once said that every potter in Mashiko was more skillful than he
was. I saw a show of his the other day, and very few potters anywhere,
can make pots with the feeling his work has. Skill can be an end in
itself.
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
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