Louis Katz on thu 25 sep 03
For the most part I don't consider myself a potter, I make nice bowls
and do ok with some other forms. I do look every day at pots. I have
been looking at pictures of Leach and Hamada pots for years.
Occasionally I see some for real.
I can't find the original post that brought about this uproar, but good
I suspect that it was reactionary. Every reactionary post has something
its a reaction to, no?
Much as Leach was incredible, his pots are not perfection. I suspect
this post was a reaction to a hero worship mentality that does not
allow for flaws to be talked about. Leach's pots in pictures tend to
often have that low center of gravity and fatal bump that often
indicates thick walls at the bottom. I point out these bumps to
students often, just as I talk about how we wouldn't be talking about
these pots, or any pots at all perhaps if Leach did not exist. Leach
made some incredibly sensitive pots, but I think the decoration was the
stronger part of them. He is more important for his apprentices, who
often made better pots than he did. I hope people will say my students
make better work than I do when I am done teaching.
It is good to talk of strengths and weakness in work. I wish he had
been specific so there would be more to talk about. I think we should
get off this guys case.
Louis
Susan Setley on fri 26 sep 03
In a message dated 9/26/03 8:53:14 AM, louis.katz@MAIL.TAMUCC.EDU writes:
<< I suspect
this post was a reaction to a hero worship mentality >>
I disagree, and including Hamada? I did see "hero worship" type posts
AFTERWARDS but they were all well-justified.
I pulled up some pictures of Hamada's work, thinking I had lost my marbles
for a second. They still immediately riveted my attention.
Then I noticed one where the curve of the left profile was not exactly the
curve of the right profile. While I try very hard to avoid that, sometimes it
happens. I have a piece at home now that happened to, and when a more skilled
potter told me he liked the piece, I really thought he was just being polite.
But after looking at Hamada's pot, which was "flawed" --a according to a wholly
arbitrary standard, I was glad he went ahead and fired it instead of smashing
it because it was less than perfect.
So -- even the most negative threads benefit us amateurs!!
One thing is sure -- when potters can generate so much polarity I want to see
what the potters being discussed have done. :)
I wouldn't mind seeing some pots made by the critic, either.
Jan Goodland Metz on fri 26 sep 03
A story I read about Hamada is that he was giving a demonstration on
throwing and at the end someone asked if he would throw a perfectly
symetrical pot to just show them that he could. He replied "Why would I
want to do that, it has taken me 30 years to learn to throw off center."
Jan Goodland Metz
trying to learn to throw on center so I can then unlearn.
Susan Setley wrote:
>In a message dated 9/26/03 8:53:14 AM, louis.katz@MAIL.TAMUCC.EDU writes:
>
><< I suspect
>this post was a reaction to a hero worship mentality >>
>
>
>I disagree, and including Hamada? I did see "hero worship" type posts
>AFTERWARDS but they were all well-justified.
>
>I pulled up some pictures of Hamada's work, thinking I had lost my marbles
>for a second. They still immediately riveted my attention.
>
>Then I noticed one where the curve of the left profile was not exactly the
>curve of the right profile. While I try very hard to avoid that, sometimes it
>happens. I have a piece at home now that happened to, and when a more skilled
>potter told me he liked the piece, I really thought he was just being polite.
>But after looking at Hamada's pot, which was "flawed" --a according to a wholly
>arbitrary standard, I was glad he went ahead and fired it instead of smashing
>it because it was less than perfect.
>
>So -- even the most negative threads benefit us amateurs!!
>
>One thing is sure -- when potters can generate so much polarity I want to see
>what the potters being discussed have done. :)
>
>I wouldn't mind seeing some pots made by the critic, either.
>
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>
Malcolm Schosha on fri 26 sep 03
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Susan Setley
wrote:
> In a message dated 9/26/03 8:53:14 AM, louis.katz@M... writes:
>
>
> I wouldn't mind seeing some pots made by the critic, either.
>
>
..............................................
Susan,
I have responded to, and taken seriously, posts from potters on the
forum that I know nothing about. And even if I do not agree with
them, why should I not take their words seriously? What if a member
was not a potter at all, but a serious student of ceramic history?
You would not lisen to such a person? This forum offers an
interesting opportunity to exchange thoughts, regardless of
individual pottery output.
But, what you really mean, of course, is that you want to see my
pottery so that you can tear into it. Right? You can hardly wait.
Malcolm
Susan Setley on fri 26 sep 03
In a message dated 9/26/03 4:38:25 PM, malcolmschosha@YAHOO.COM writes:
<< Susan,
I have responded to, and taken seriously, posts from potters on the
forum that I know nothing about. And even if I do not agree with
them, why should I not take their words seriously? What if a member
was not a potter at all, but a serious student of ceramic history?
You would not lisen to such a person? This forum offers an
interesting opportunity to exchange thoughts, regardless of
individual pottery output.
But, what you really mean, of course, is that you want to see my
pottery so that you can tear into it. Right? You can hardly wait.
Malcolm >>
No, Malcolm. I meant that I would like to see your pots. I would like to see
anything that anyone is ready to share.
You give me too much credit, Malcolm. I'm a total amateur. It would be quite
an arrogant thing for me to do.
clennell on fri 26 sep 03
Sour Cherry Pottery
>> Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with its
>> still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort of
>> bad quality farce.....
Malcolm: I had the pleasure of working with the Cassons for a summer some 20
years ago. They are wonderful people and fabulous potter/educators.
Mick reverred folk potters the world over. He is a studio potter and that he
would not fit into a production setting is indeed true.
I had an Italian thrower work for me several years ago. He is an itinerent
thrower that travels all over -throwing. He is an unbelievable thrower if
you give him your forms to throw. If you let him make the stuff he learned
in Italy it is hideous. He was however just that- a thrower. he knows
nothing of firing, glazes, form, design, etc. To compare throwers with
potters is to compare apples to oranges.
I know nothing of your work but if you claim to have better pots behind you
than Mick, Leach and hamada then I have this feeling you're like the guy in
high school that said he had all the girls, won the most fights, drank the
most beer and no one called him on it. So I'm calling on you. Where do I
see your work? You can shit the fans, but you can't shit the players.
Cheers,
Tony
Sour Cherry Pottery
London, Paris, New York, Beamsville
Tony and Sheila Clennell
Sour Cherry Pottery
4545 King Street
Beamsville, Ontario
CANADA L0R 1B1
http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
clennell@vaxxine.com
Vince Pitelka on fri 26 sep 03
> But, what you really mean, of course, is that you want to see my
> pottery so that you can tear into it. Right? You can hardly wait.
Oh my goodness. Is this serious paranoia, or what? I mean, this is indeed
the stuff of major neuroses. I think serious therapy may be required.
Hopefully that can be provided by some venue other than Clayart.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
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