Malcolm Schosha on thu 25 sep 03
Lee,
I am going to answer you, and a few other messages here.
Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with its
still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort of
bad quality farce. But, once again, I repeat: I do not expect anyone
to agree with me who does not find my words agreeable. Perhaps I
should attach a health warning at the bottom of my posts. Something
along the lines of Caution: May Ruin Your Whole Day if Taken
Internally.
It continues to amaze me there has been so much negative reaction to
a very short post I made trying to respond to Wayne's throwing
question. Craig jumped on me because he thought I am putting down
porcelain, which I am not.
Craig, and others, also seem to think I was making an agressive
challenge, in my statement about the difficulties of lifting a
porcelain cylinder 11" tall by 6" wide directly from the wheel head.
This is based on by experience (which is substantle), and if someone
because of better skills and/or better clay can, then they can. But
what I said was based on certain assumptions; including: 1. I always
think of size as the fired size, 2. the throwing is good quality,
that is 1/8" or less, with even thickness from bottom to top, 3. when
the piece is thrown, it is cut from the wheel head with a thin wire
and lifted with no tricks. I can do this in a good lowfire clay, but
I can not in porcelain. If there is someone who can; Bravo!
An artist-potter should be able to equal the technique of the master
craftsman; if not in speed of execution, in quality. This is a major
point of disagreement between me and Hamada and Leach. There is no
point in my trying to disguise that I consider Hamada and Leach
third rate potters and artists. I also consider Leach's self-serving
attack on the Classical tradition, in his book, deplorable.
I am well aware that my viewpoint on these things is not what is
generally accepted in contemporary ceramics. I have put a lot of work
into pottery, and have thought about these things for many years. I
believe that gives me a right to say what I think. It is my
considered opinion, but I do not expect much agreement.
Malcolm
................................................................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Lee Love wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Malcolm Schosha"
>
>
> > I have seen Casson's book. He would not get hired to throw in
Italia.
>
> But would he want to throw for them? :^) Here in
Mashiko,
> sometimes Shokunin (master craftsmen) do not understand artist
potters.
> They are birds of a different feather.
>
> Hamada once said that every potter in Mashiko was more skillful
than he
> was. I saw a show of his the other day, and very few potters
anywhere,
> can make pots with the feeling his work has. Skill can be an end
in
> itself.
>
> Lee In Mashiko, Japan
>
>
Susan Setley on thu 25 sep 03
In a message dated 9/25/03 12:38:41 PM, malcolmschosha@YAHOO.COM writes:
<< Lee,
I am going to answer you, and a few other messages here.
Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with its
still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort of
bad quality farce. >>
At some point this becomes libel. It really should stop.
Richard Aerni on thu 25 sep 03
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:18 -0000, Malcolm Schosha
wrote:
>>
>Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with its
>still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort of
>bad quality farce.....
>It continues to amaze me there has been so much negative reaction to
>a very short post I made trying to respond to Wayne's throwing
>question.....
There is no
>point in my trying to disguise that I consider Hamada and Leach
>third rate potters and artists. I also consider Leach's self-serving
>attack on the Classical tradition, in his book, deplorable.
Wow! Is there something in the water? Malcolm, how can you consider it
amazing that people react so negatively to your posts when you just
casually drop bombshells into them, such as the excerpts above, which were
taken from your last post?
I've no idea how long you've been potting and how long you've been
developing your ideas about techniques, tastes, and aesthetics. You seem
to feel as though holding them for a long time gives you the right to
express them. Even if they're newly hatched, you can freely express them.
You are aware that few would agree with them. All fine. But please, let's
drop the amazement-at-the-reaction part.
Richard Aerni
Bloomfield, NY...where the leading local talk-show host on radio has just
landed himself in hot water for calling the candidate for county executive
an "orangutang, and a monkey." I miss civility...
Hollis Engley on thu 25 sep 03
> Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with its
> still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort of
> bad quality farce.
Malcolm: God knows, Leach and Hamada don't need any of us defending them.
And I think the years have proven that your opinion of them is in the
minority. Still, you're right when you say that it's your opinion and you're
entitled to it. I happen to think it's wrong, of course, but it's yours.
As for Mick Casson, he doesn't need me defending him, either. But I will.
There are few more gracious, talented, humble or generous men (let alone
potters) anywhere. Visit him some time and see. We can, I suppose, disagree
on the quality of his work. I admire his pots and the way he's combined his
creative life with his generous teaching career; you clearly don't. But it's
remarkable that anyone would describe his work as farce. Remarkable,
inexplicable, but, again, it's your opinion.
What puzzles me is that some of us seem unable to tolerate more than their
narrow piece of the broad spectrum of clay. And, further, feel obliged to
pee on those people who don't make pots in that narrow, "correct" style.
There are so many clay-related things I have no interest in doing. You
couldn't get me to make a crystal-glazed vase, for example, if you put a gun
to my head, but I understand that there are potters and buyers who love
them. I admire the work that goes into them and I don't think less of the
people who make them because they're enamoured of something I'm not.
Jeez. Lighten up.
Hollis
Hatchville Pottery
Falmouth, Mass.
hengley@cape.com
Malcolm Schosha on thu 25 sep 03
Could you explain just why you think I should not be allowed to state
my opinion? Perhaps it is a requirement of this forum that I should
only say what everyone wants to hear? What I said was about Casson's
pottery, not his character. Surely you can understand the difference.
Malcolm
...............................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Susan Setley
wrote:
> In a message dated 9/25/03 12:38:41 PM, malcolmschosha@Y... writes:
>
> << Lee,
>
>
> I am going to answer you, and a few other messages here.
>
>
> Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with its
>
> still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort of
>
> bad quality farce. >>
>
> At some point this becomes libel. It really should stop.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@l...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@p...
Craig Martell on thu 25 sep 03
Hi:
I'm absolutely amazed by this stuff.
For the record, my reaction to Malcolm's statement that I "jumped on him"
is, no I didn't. When we use broad generalizations and rhetoric to
describe something, there may be a response to that. When the working
properties of porcelain, which is a very broad subject, are described as
"turning to mush in a matter of a few minutes", there could be a response
to the contrary. That was my intent. The use of the term "mush" is
rhetoric and rhetoric is used to illicit a positive or negative
response. Whether we intentionally use rhetoric or not, it sometimes works
its way into language and communication. This is a large list and my
intention was to give a more positive view of working with
porcelain. Especially to those who have just started or are contemplating
the use of porcelain.
Malcolm also said that he was surprised that he could have gotten such
negativity from merely offering some help to another Clayart
person. Again, it wasn't negativity on my part. Only a differing opinion
based on my experience with porcelain. Actually, I could use that stance
too. "Gosh, all I did was mention a method for lifting pots that I got
from Mick Casson's book and you jumped all over Mick and bashed him with
negativity regarding his work." Make no mistake in understanding that I
feel Malcolm's shots at Mick Casson were negative and totally uncalled
for. Cheap shots at best. Mick has earned his place in Ceramics and needs
no defense.
I'm done with this thread, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Malcolm Schosha on thu 25 sep 03
Richard,
But Amazed I am. Not at the reaction to this post, which I
anticipated, but to previous posts. Perhaps, if you had actually read
my message, instead of just picking out the parts you could wring
your hands over, you would understand what I mean. What I meant
particularly is accusations that I am anti-porcelain, that I do not
understand the fine qualities of porcelain, and that I had challenged
Craig over his throwing skills. None of these things are correct.
Perhaps the misunderstandings were the result of poor communication
skills and so are my fault. If so I am sorry. Certainly I never
intended to challange, or otherwise insult Craig.
On the other hand, there is no denying that many of my opinions are
very different than those of most members of the forum. If you find
that upsetting, I am sorry about that also. But I might as well say
what I think.
I have made pottery since 1968, although I have made very little
pottery in recient years as a result of some pretty serious back
problems (for a few years I could hardly walk), and wrist problems
too. I can still make pottery though, although it takes a few weeks
to get up to level. Over the years I have had my own workshop in the
NY Catskills, worked as production thrower in Italy and USA, and was
chief designer for a large manufacturer if stoneware in Israel.
But, Richard, I really would appreciate it if you would try to
understand my posts before starting to tell me what to do and how to
behave.
Malcolm
.........................................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Richard Aerni wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:31:18 -0000, Malcolm Schosha
> wrote:
>
> I've no idea how long you've been potting and how long you've been
> developing your ideas about techniques, tastes, and aesthetics.
You seem > to feel as though holding them for a long time gives you
the right to > express them. Even if they're newly hatched, you can
freely express them.
> You are aware that few would agree with them. All fine. But
please, let's > drop the amazement-at-the-reaction part.
>
> Richard Aerni
> Bloomfield, NY...where the leading local talk-show host on radio
has just
> landed himself in hot water for calling the candidate for county
executive
> an "orangutang, and a monkey." I miss civility...
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@l...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@p...
Susan Setley on thu 25 sep 03
In a message dated 9/25/03 9:56:50 PM, ashglaze@WVI.COM writes:
<< When the working
properties of porcelain, which is a very broad subject, are described as
"turning to mush in a matter of a few minutes", there could be a response
to the contrary. >>
On the other hand, if you work with porcelain badly, it can easily turn to
mush...
Vince Pitelka on thu 25 sep 03
> what I said was based on certain assumptions; including: 1. I always
> think of size as the fired size, 2. the throwing is good quality,
> that is 1/8" or less, with even thickness from bottom to top,
Malcolm -
This is a misprint, right? If not, you seem to be digging yourself in deep.
No one can throw a cylinder that tall that is 1/8" thick. To attempt it
would be foolish, because even if it were possible, the resulting cylinder
would be completely useless. I have seen wares that are "too thin," and
they are invariably far more disturbing than wares that are thick. It is
possible to carry throwing prowess beyond the realm of practicality or
rationality, and the resulting wares often just seem brittle and precarious.
Malcolm, of course your opinions are welcome and valued on Clayart, but I
have to wonder why you would grandstand such comments about Mick Casson.
You are purposefully defaming someone who is a real inspiration to most of
us, and you seem to be getting some kind of perverse satisfaction from it.
So yes, you DO have that right, but so what? You also have the right to
walk in front of a speeding truck. Normally, one chooses the opportunities
which afford some advantage. Purposefully defaming Mick Casson on Clayart
doesn't seem to offer any advantage at all.
Just my opinions.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 26 sep 03
But Edward!
How long did you wait between having thrown it, and when you
lifted it up!
Yours,
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edouard Bastarache"
> Hello Malcom,
>
> " I told you that I thought it impossible to throw a 12"
high
> cylinder, by 6" wide and lift it off the wheel. This is a
simple
> thing. Can it be thrown and lifted off of wheel, or is a
bat
> necessary. You came up with a trick, when it was clear
what I ment. I
> realize that one could also take a hair dryer, and solve
the problem
> that way. It could also be thrown 1/2" thick too and
solve it that
> way.
> Malcom"
>
> What about thowing a 17"x4.5" cylinder and lift it up with
my bare
> hands without using a string to loose it from the bat.
> Then I moved it across the room to put it on a table to
dry, without
> deformation.
> Naturally, I kept it in my collection, it is still in my
office.
>
>
> Later,
Susan Setley on fri 26 sep 03
In a message dated 9/26/03 9:26:55 PM, vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET writes:
<< When can we schedule a demonstration? Where can we see you do this? I am
waiting with baited breath. Because otherwise, you are completely without
credibility, because your claim above is completely without substance or
sensibility. I have been professionally involved in ceramics for 35 years,
with 10 years as a production studio potter, and almost 20 years as a
teacher. I can speak with considerable experience on this. I have known
some extraordinary production potters who have worked in many studios around
the country and the world. Your claims do not make sense, and have no basis
in reality, unless you can substantiate them with a live demonstration.
>>
My question would be, of what use would this skill be beyond that of a parlor
trick?
I mean, straight columns aren't attractive. I am not an expert potter, unlike
many here, but I thought one NEEDED to leave the walls of a column thicker --
or there would be nothing left to shape with.
kruzewski on fri 26 sep 03
It is unfortunate, Malcolm, that you choose to admire the work of one group
of ceramic artists by denegrating the work of another, especially by
describing it as "bad quality farce".
I assume that this statement is based on actually handling the Casson pots
you so despise. If not, if your judgement is only based on pictures you have
seen in a book, then I am at a loss as to how you can comment on their
quality.
It is your perogative not to like Mick Casson's pots, but if you rubbish
their quality you must expect to be challenged.
Have you made us appreciate Italian ceramics more by this approach? No. I
suspect not.
Jacqui
North Wales
Malcolm Schosha on fri 26 sep 03
Vince,
If someone who claims to have a high level of skill as a thrower,
cannot throw cylinders (or other forms) to that thickness, then a
re-examination of technique is necessary. The potters I worked with
usually threw a little thicker than that because they were pushing
for the maximum production. But they could throw a 12" tall by 6"
wide cylinder with 1/8" wall anytime. And its done with two pulls of
the clay. Its called good throwing, and its the way I learned. I
doubt this is possible in porcelain clay, but expert throwers on this
forum have been telling me that I know nothing; so perhaps they can
do it.
Malcolm
......................................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> > what I said was based on certain assumptions; including: 1. I
always
> > think of size as the fired size, 2. the throwing is good quality,
> > that is 1/8" or less, with even thickness from bottom to top,
>
> Malcolm -
> This is a misprint, right? If not, you seem to be digging yourself
in deep.
> No one can throw a cylinder that tall that is 1/8" thick. To
attempt it
> would be foolish, because even if it were possible, the resulting
cylinder
> would be completely useless. I have seen wares that are "too
thin," and
> they are invariably far more disturbing than wares that are thick.
It is
> possible to carry throwing prowess beyond the realm of practicality
or
> rationality, and the resulting wares often just seem brittle and
precarious.
>
> Malcolm, of course your opinions are welcome and valued on Clayart,
but I
> have to wonder why you would grandstand such comments about Mick
Casson.
> You are purposefully defaming someone who is a real inspiration to
most of
> us, and you seem to be getting some kind of perverse satisfaction
from it.
> So yes, you DO have that right, but so what? You also have the
right to
> walk in front of a speeding truck. Normally, one chooses the
opportunities
> which afford some advantage. Purposefully defaming Mick Casson on
Clayart
> doesn't seem to offer any advantage at all.
>
> Just my opinions.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@d...
> 615/597-5376
> Office - wpitelka@t...
> 615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@l...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@p...
david mcbeth on fri 26 sep 03
>Could you explain just why you think I should not be allowed to state
>my opinion? Perhaps it is a requirement of this forum that I should
>only say what everyone wants to hear? What I said was about Casson's
>pottery, not his character. Surely you can understand the difference.
>
>Malcolm -
You certainly have the right to express your opinions, but as Craig has
said - don't be surprised at the backlash. It is not a requirement that
you should only say what we want to hear but you should not expect us to
only agree with you. From where I stand - a potter's character and his/her
pots are not too far a part.
good pots -
dave
David McBeth, MFA
Professor of Art
Assistant Director of Honors Programs
330 B Gooch Hall
The University of Tennessee at Martin
Martin, Tennessee 38238
731-587-7416
Malcolm Schosha on fri 26 sep 03
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Hollis Engley wrote:
> > Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with its
> > still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort of
> > bad quality farce.
>
>
I admire his pots and the way he's combined his
> creative life with his generous teaching career; you clearly don't.
But it's
> remarkable that anyone would describe his work as farce. Remarkable,
> inexplicable, but, again, it's your opinion.
> What puzzles me is that some of us seem unable to tolerate more
than their
> narrow piece of the broad spectrum of clay. And, further, feel
obliged to
> pee on those people who don't make pots in that narrow, "correct"
style.
......................................
Hollis,
You are quite right on this point. What I said about Casson was much
too extreem. Sorry.
It interests me particularly what you say about tolerating other
points of view. Exactly this that makes me so touchy about things,
and sometimes over extreem in my criticism. Those who are followers
of Leach, Hamada, etc. have for many years been all to ready to
attack those who follow the classic tradition, while at the same time
very sensitive to ANY criticism directed their way. Much of this has
to to with protecting their own position and financial well being.
Malcolm
Susan Setley on fri 26 sep 03
In a message dated 9/26/03 9:10:52 AM, malcolmschosha@YAHOO.COM writes:
<<
Hollis,
You are quite right on this point. What I said about Casson was much
too extreem. Sorry.
>>
I really think that's why your comments haven't been accepted for the most
part -- they were extreme.
I found a picture of a Hamada pot on line with uneven curves. Hey, it
happens, but he still finished it, and I liked the finished piece -- and really
learned something from seeing his pot.
C'mon. Let's try to put this behind us. We all have bad days and then say
things we shouldn't have. Unfortunately in real life they're only vibrations on
the air. On line, they rapidly take on a permanence that casual conversation
shouldn't have.
Susan Setley on fri 26 sep 03
In a message dated 9/26/03 9:09:15 AM, dmcbeth@UTM.EDU writes:
<< >Malcolm -
You certainly have the right to express your opinions, but as Craig has
said - don't be surprised at the backlash. >>
I think that post was directed to me because I said he "ought" to stop. I
didn't say he "had" to stop. There's a big difference. He expressed his opinion
-- and then I expressed mine.
Malcolm Schosha on fri 26 sep 03
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Craig Martell wrote:
>
> Malcolm also said that he was surprised that he could have gotten
such negativity from merely offering some help to another Clayart
> person. Again, it wasn't negativity on my part. Only a differing
opinion based on my experience with porcelain. Actually, I could use
that stance too. "Gosh, all I did was mention a method for lifting
pots that I got from Mick Casson's book and you jumped all over Mick
and bashed him with negativity regarding his work." Make no mistake
in understanding that I feel Malcolm's shots at Mick Casson were
negative and totally uncalled for. Cheap shots at best. Mick has
earned his place in Ceramics and needs
no defense.
............................................
Craig,
Maybe I have been trying the wrong approach here. This message is
pretty abusive. You may think that, if you have some psychological
capital, invested in Casson's book, that this is justified. But I did
not attack Casson as a person. I criticised his pottery. Can You see
a difference there?
But this has been the story since I joined this forum. Every time I
post a message someone is complaining that they are hurt, and then
feel they are justified in insulting me. I have decided to do some
more answering back. Probabily it will make things worse short term,
but for the long I hope it will make it a little easier to say what I
think about pottery.
I told you that I thought it impossible to throw a 12" high
cylinder, by 6" wide and lift it off the wheel. This is a simple
thing. Can it be thrown and lifted off of wheel, or is a bat
necessary. You came up with a trick, when it was clear what I ment. I
realize that one could also take a hair dryer, and solve the problem
that way. It could also be thrown 1/2" thick too and solve it that
way.
But you never answered the question Craig, can that cylinder be
thrown in porcelain and lifted off the wheel, or not? No tricks, just
throw it thin and lift it off the wheel. I know that I can not do it
in porcelain, but can in lowfire. Let me know. If you can do it, I
will come be next time I am near by, and learn something.
Malcolm
Malcolm Schosha on fri 26 sep 03
Hollis,
I ment that the wording was too extreem; not my opinion, which I
consider correct.
Malcolm
........................................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Susan Setley
wrote:
> In a message dated 9/26/03 9:10:52 AM, malcolmschosha@Y... writes:
>
> <<
>
> Hollis,
>
>
> You are quite right on this point. What I said about Casson was much
>
> too extreem. Sorry.
>
> >>
>
> I really think that's why your comments haven't been accepted for
the most
> part -- they were extreme.
>
> I found a picture of a Hamada pot on line with uneven curves. Hey,
it
> happens, but he still finished it, and I liked the finished piece --
and really
> learned something from seeing his pot.
>
> C'mon. Let's try to put this behind us. We all have bad days and
then say
> things we shouldn't have. Unfortunately in real life they're only
vibrations on
> the air. On line, they rapidly take on a permanence that casual
conversation
> shouldn't have.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@l...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@p...
Janet Kaiser on fri 26 sep 03
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
To my eye that "classical tradition" being churned out of sweat
shops all around the Mediterranean is the stuff true farce is
made from. Making *exact copies* of what Grandpapa,
Greatgrandpapa and all the other Papas made is not exactly work
which has merit of or in itself however well it is crafted or
slick the decoration... It has lost all the immediacy and
brightness of the original work and is rather like comparing a
painting-by-numbers kit to the work of Michelangelo.
It only survives because that is what the tourists expect to find
and buy. It has otherwise become irrelevant. Worse than that...
because there is no alternative market to their "folk art", they
are stuck in the production treadmill with no way of escape. They
either go on making ad nauseum or they fail as potters. Someone
born into generations of potters is not going to like that, so on
they go, on and on and on...
No, it is not farcical, it is a tradgi-comedy. They are being
denied the exuberance and creativity which led their forefathers
to developing the very same ware 100-200-500-1000 years ago! How
shameful to uphold that as some sort of ideal or goal to all the
potters who rejoice in their own creativity and artistry.
Leach was "self-serving", hummm...? Obviously that "tradition" is
alive and well too! At least Leach helped us on our merry way to
exploring other than the Euro-centric bias towards "classical"
forms and proportions. It opened up whole new horizons instead of
condemning several generations to regurgitating the old, tired
stuff.
Yes, the truly classical shapes and forms should inform modern
potters, especially those working in a broadly European
tradition, but to slavishly continue making them is a waste of
good clay and "human resources" in my opinion.
LOSEN THE SHACKLES and FREE THE POOR SLAVES is what I say! Anyone
yapping and snapping like an irate terrier at the heels of giants
like Leach and Casson is not rattling any cage other than the
bars on their own. But it certainly makes me smile to listen to
it...
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
>>Of course Casson would not have wanted to throw in Italy, with
its
>>still continuing classical tradition. To me his stuff is a sort
of
>>bad quality farce...
***********************************************************
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The Chapel of Art : Capel Celfyddyd
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Home of The International Potters' Path
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 http://www.the-coa.org.uk
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Chris Rupp on fri 26 sep 03
(snip)
>But this has been the story since I joined this forum. Every time I
>post a message someone is complaining that they are hurt, and then
>feel they are justified in insulting me.
(snip)
Well, maybe you joined the wrong forum! You should consider starting your
own and see how many people would like to be a part of it.
Chris
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Edouard Bastarache on fri 26 sep 03
Hello Malcom,
" I told you that I thought it impossible to throw a 12" high
cylinder, by 6" wide and lift it off the wheel. This is a simple
thing. Can it be thrown and lifted off of wheel, or is a bat
necessary. You came up with a trick, when it was clear what I ment. I
realize that one could also take a hair dryer, and solve the problem
that way. It could also be thrown 1/2" thick too and solve it that
way.
Malcom"
What about thowing a 17"x4.5" cylinder and lift it up with my bare
hands without using a string to loose it from the bat.
Then I moved it across the room to put it on a table to dry, without
deformation.
Naturally, I kept it in my collection, it is still in my office.
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
Vince Pitelka on fri 26 sep 03
> If someone who claims to have a high level of skill as a thrower,
> cannot throw cylinders (or other forms) to that thickness, then a
> re-examination of technique is necessary. The potters I worked with
> usually threw a little thicker than that because they were pushing
> for the maximum production. But they could throw a 12" tall by 6"
> wide cylinder with 1/8" wall anytime. And its done with two pulls of
> the clay. Its called good throwing, and its the way I learned. I
> doubt this is possible in porcelain clay, but expert throwers on this
> forum have been telling me that I know nothing; so perhaps they can
> do it.
Malcolm -
When can we schedule a demonstration? Where can we see you do this? I am
waiting with baited breath. Because otherwise, you are completely without
credibility, because your claim above is completely without substance or
sensibility. I have been professionally involved in ceramics for 35 years,
with 10 years as a production studio potter, and almost 20 years as a
teacher. I can speak with considerable experience on this. I have known
some extraordinary production potters who have worked in many studios around
the country and the world. Your claims do not make sense, and have no basis
in reality, unless you can substantiate them with a live demonstration.
Once again, I wonder at your motives, making such outrageous claims on
Clayart. What's going on here? I expect we will find out eventually. Like
I said to several people off list, regarding your participation here, either
you will wise up and get real, or you will burn out and get gone.
Personally, I would prefer the former.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Hollis Engley on fri 26 sep 03
> Hollis,
>
> I ment that the wording was too extreem; not my opinion, which I
> consider correct.
>
> Malcolm
Malcolm: Fine, whatever. I think it's been established that you're in a bit
of a minority situation here. Maybe we should move on.
Hollis
hengley@cape.com
iandol on sat 27 sep 03
Dear Edouard Bastarache,
Not a bad effort from 5 pounds of clay. Great throwing!!
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Maurice Weitman on sat 27 sep 03
At 1:08 AM +0900 on 9/28/03, Lee Love wrote:
>Edouard, a prophane or butane torch is much faster. Just don't hold it
>in one spot too long. ;^)
Haven't we had enough prophanity for a while?
Regards,
Maurice
Edouard Bastarache on sat 27 sep 03
Hello Phil,
the lump of clay had been sitting for months on a shelf but,
I lifted it up from the bat just after completing throwing.
It amazed me at that time, 33 years ago, and I still am.
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
Lois Ruben Aronow on sat 27 sep 03
Ok, Vince and Malcolm - get a ruler, see whose is bigger, and move on.
>When can we schedule a demonstration? Where can we see you do this? I =
am
>waiting with baited breath. Because otherwise, you are completely =
without
>credibility, because your claim above is completely without substance or
>sensibility. I have been professionally involved in ceramics for 35 =
years,
>with 10 years as a production studio potter, and almost 20 years as a
>teacher. I can speak with considerable experience on this. I have =
known
>some extraordinary production potters who have worked in many studios =
around
>the country and the world. Your claims do not make sense, and have no =
basis
>in reality, unless you can substantiate them with a live demonstration.
>
************
www.loisaronow.com
=46ine Craft Porcelain and Pottery
New Work for Summer 2003
New Show and Retail information
Edouard Bastarache on sat 27 sep 03
Hehehehehe Lee,
"Edouard, a prophane or butane torch is much faster. Just don't hold
it
in one spot too long. ;^)
Lee"
"Touché".
Only thing, I was challenged by a younger one.
He thought I would not be able to throw that stiff clay,
I hate being challenged so, I did it (Hehehehe)
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
Lee Love on sun 28 sep 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edouard Bastarache"
> I realize that one could also take a hair dryer, and solve
>the problem that way.
Edouard, a prophane or butane torch is much faster. Just don't hold it
in one spot too long. ;^)
Lee In Mashiko
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