mel jacobson on thu 2 oct 03
i do believe after reading clayart today that
there are many ways to make pots. many, in
fact thousands.
one persons bad system, is another persons
wonder system.
one person wants perfection, one person wants
loppy. one person lives in japan, one person lives
in california. one person lives in georgia.
lots of space between those spaces. and, one
even lives in isreal. one has a ph.d, one did not
finish high school. they are all potters.
many folks on clayart have never even heard of
a `zen master`. remember, it is a religion.
as we have said before, some people in america
think their `zen master` is the director of the
tv show `millionaire, or fear factor`.
god help them. it too is a religion for some.
many folks on clayart just want to make a decent pot..
just one. their skills are lacking and they want to get
better. they will.
most folks do not even understand the creative process.
they are not artists...just folks making pots...the
arguments are academic...they do not care.
some folks out there are totally crafts people, they don't give
a fat rats ass about art, or zen or creativity.
it is all bs to the them. and, i must admit, a great deal of it
is bs.
when we came home from japan we had great hopes.
we were going to change, the pots were going to change.
our attitudes were going to change...we could change
the world. it never happened. our society here in minnesota
dictated out lives. just they way it was. family, work, school
and friends. they were minnesota, not japan. we could not
take it with us. it was a great experience, i learned tons, but
it was not me. i am a nordic, american, minnesotan. cannot
change that.
skill is a big picture. it is important...it is what makes the
craft a craft. even art is dominated by skill....knowledge and
understanding, experiences...all point us down the road. of
course having wonderful things to express and say are important
if you are going to be a great artist. but, many want to just
make a few pots. get a glaze from a book, order clay from
the local dealer..and, get on with it.
nothing wrong with that.
if you want a great deal more, well you had better get to
work. make lots of stuff, try lots of techniques, explore
glaze and clay and skill...find a `voice`..(what a dumb expression.)
but, you are the only one that can discover it...it cannot
be done for you.
your mom cannot buy it for you.
or, give you a `self image`.
it comes with bloody hard work.
mel
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
Hank Murrow on thu 2 oct 03
On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 08:11 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> many want to just
> make a few pots. get a glaze from a book, order clay from
> the local dealer..and, get on with it.
> nothing wrong with that.
>
> if you want a great deal more, well you had better get to
> work. make lots of stuff, try lots of techniques, explore
> glaze and clay and skill...find a `voice`..(what a dumb expression.)
> but, you are the only one that can discover it...it cannot
> be done for you.
> your mom cannot buy it for you.
> or, give you a `self image`.
> it comes with bloody hard work.
> mel
Or as Loren Eiseley recalled, quoting an old Jamaican woman he
encountered on a dark beach one night............."Them as seeks
treasure must go alone, at night, and leave a little blood behind...."
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
........waiting more or less patiently to open a kiln full of shinos
and other treasure.
www.murrow.biz/hank
wayneinkeywest on thu 2 oct 03
Mel:
I will not edit or snip those words below. They are
yours, and they are wonderful.
I've printed them out, and they will hang where I can
see them while I throw.
wayne in KW
standing, applauding, and stamping my feet
> i do believe after reading clayart today that
> there are many ways to make pots. many, in
> fact thousands.
>
> one persons bad system, is another persons
> wonder system.
>
> one person wants perfection, one person wants
> loppy. one person lives in japan, one person lives
> in california. one person lives in georgia.
> lots of space between those spaces. and, one
> even lives in isreal. one has a ph.d, one did not
> finish high school. they are all potters.
>
> many folks on clayart have never even heard of
> a `zen master`. remember, it is a religion.
>
> as we have said before, some people in america
> think their `zen master` is the director of the
> tv show `millionaire, or fear factor`.
> god help them. it too is a religion for some.
>
> many folks on clayart just want to make a decent pot..
> just one. their skills are lacking and they want to get
> better. they will.
>
> most folks do not even understand the creative process.
> they are not artists...just folks making pots...the
> arguments are academic...they do not care.
>
> some folks out there are totally crafts people, they don't give
> a fat rats ass about art, or zen or creativity.
> it is all bs to the them. and, i must admit, a great deal of it
> is bs.
>
> when we came home from japan we had great hopes.
> we were going to change, the pots were going to change.
> our attitudes were going to change...we could change
> the world. it never happened. our society here in minnesota
> dictated out lives. just they way it was. family, work, school
> and friends. they were minnesota, not japan. we could not
> take it with us. it was a great experience, i learned tons, but
> it was not me. i am a nordic, american, minnesotan. cannot
> change that.
>
> skill is a big picture. it is important...it is what makes the
> craft a craft. even art is dominated by skill....knowledge and
> understanding, experiences...all point us down the road. of
> course having wonderful things to express and say are important
> if you are going to be a great artist. but, many want to just
> make a few pots. get a glaze from a book, order clay from
> the local dealer..and, get on with it.
> nothing wrong with that.
>
> if you want a great deal more, well you had better get to
> work. make lots of stuff, try lots of techniques, explore
> glaze and clay and skill...find a `voice`..(what a dumb expression.)
> but, you are the only one that can discover it...it cannot
> be done for you.
> your mom cannot buy it for you.
> or, give you a `self image`.
> it comes with bloody hard work.
> mel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
>
>
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>
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melpots@pclink.com.
Lee Love on fri 3 oct 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
This is a little off on a tangent. To remind people where the focus
the original topic came from, I'll share a Philp Rawson quote:
"Even though pottery must be based on a technology of some kind,
if it is good pottery it always eludes the tyranny of its technology."
Philp Rawson, Ceramics page 3.
This is the first thing I "blue lined" in this book. It is a must read
for anybody serious about Ceramics.
On to Mel's post:
> many folks on clayart have never even heard of
> a `zen master`.
I don't believe ClayArt members are quiet so parochial. They never
used to be.
> remember, it is a religion.
Zen is not religion, not in the Western sense. Zen, taken by
itself is more of an "appied philosophy." Usually, when Zen students are
talking about religion, they speak about Buddhism. People of many
religions apply Zen principles to their lives.
> as we have said before, some people in america
> think their `zen master` is the director of the
> tv show `millionaire, or fear factor`.
> god help them. it too is a religion for some.
Yes, sometimes people use "Zen" the way other people use "Jazz", to
be a label for something incomprehensible.
> many folks on clayart just want to make a decent pot..
> just one. their skills are lacking and they want to get
> better. they will.
One of the nice things about pottery, is that even an ugly pot can
still function as a container of soup.
> most folks do not even understand the creative process.
> they are not artists...just folks making pots...the
> arguments are academic...they do not care.
Yes. In America, there has been a great tendency lately, for the
democracy of mediocrity. Rather than lifting up people to a higher
standard, and helping them achieve more than they might otherwise, as the
founding fathers of our country tried to do, excellence is demeaned.
> some folks out there are totally crafts people, they don't give
> a fat rats ass about art, or zen or creativity.
> it is all bs to the them. and, i must admit, a great deal of it
> is bs.
That doesn't mean the rest of us should shut up. Please point
out anything I say that you think is B.S. This categorical dismissal is a
cheap shot Mel. Specifics please!
If people are provencial in their thought, the only
thing that is going to help them grow is exposure to other people's ideas.
We need not be forced into the lowest common denominator. This is what is
currently ruining America.
> when we came home from japan we had great hopes.
> we were going to change, the pots were going to change.
> our attitudes were going to change...we could change
> the world. it never happened. our society here in minnesota
> dictated out lives. just they way it was. family, work, school
> and friends. they were minnesota, not japan. we could not
> take it with us. it was a great experience, i learned tons, but
> it was not me. i am a nordic, american, minnesotan. cannot
> change that.
*Sigh!* There are great changes in Minnesota. From when I
first moved to Minnesota in 1983, to when I left in 1999, the Asian
population increased by 10 fold! I moved there to study with my late
teacher who taught in Minneapolis, on Lake Calhoun. Was my Japanese Zen
teacher Minnesotan? You betcha! Not just White folk in Minneota anymore!
Ask your Hmong farmer at the Farmer's Market. Asian is no longer
Un-Minnesotan.
Because of the work of men like Warren MacKenzie, the level of
ceramic work in that region is at a very high. Yes, his aesthetic is
strongly influenced by Japan, even though Leach could not totally understand
it.
Just yesterday, when Jean and I were walking through a pottery
shop in downtown Mashiko looking at a lot of "not very good work", I said
to Jean: "This isn't up the the standards we have back home. This work
doesn't come close to what you'd see in the shop at Northern Clay." I
know, it isn't a totally fair assesment, because much of it has to do with a
single owner and buyer's taste. But I do believe, that if there is
anywhere that work has captured "The Mingei Spirit" of folkcraft, it is
back home in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
> skill is a big picture. it is important...it is what makes the
> craft a craft. even art is dominated by skill....knowledge and
> understanding, experiences...all point us down the road. of
> course having wonderful things to express and say are important
> if you are going to be a great artist. but, many want to just
> make a few pots. get a glaze from a book, order clay from
> the local dealer..and, get on with it.
> nothing wrong with that.
You can call Skill, the right hand and "the Eye" the left hand.
The other aspect is that "If you just want to make a few good pots", you
don't have to be a master craftsman, but don't turn your back on developing
your aesthetic ability. Technical expertise is more easily learned. It
takes a little more effort to train one's eye and the ability to percieve.
But the thing about developing one's aesthetic sensibility, is that unlike
learning countless different skills, you can work from a small set of basic
principles. And these principles can be applied to all aspects of your
life. It it like being taught to fish rather than being given fish after
fish after fish.
Actually, for people who cannot do clay fulltime, but only do it for
the love of the clay, the aesthetic route is probably the best way to go.
You might not be able to crank out 100 identical pots at a pop, or rattle
out formulas from memory, but you can still make beautiful pots. A
machine can crank out 100 identical pots faster and more alike than any
human being can, and you can always look up your technological questions in
a book or on your computer. But a machine does not have the eye to
make a unique and beautiful thing.
Like Marsalis said, " A drum machine will never have feeling."
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan Lee@Mashiko.org
Michael Wendt on sat 4 oct 03
I remember from my calculus class a quotation attributed to Sir Isaac Newton
which I paraphrase:
He was praised for his mathematical genius and replied:
"If I stand so tall, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants."
We all owe a debt of gratitude to those who came before us and taught us
what they knew. So much of what we know would never occur to a single novice
working alone in isolation. The challenge for all of us is to take us from
where we are today to an even more knowledgeable position in the future.
When we want a child, is the man or the woman the most important? To
have a baby you need both.
Sometimes learning a technique opens up a whole new avenue of expression
and creation for a person. What often follows is an outpouring of work that
combines the technique with the unique traits and experiences of that
individual to create new techniques or items.
At other times ideas for an item result in the creation of a whole new
technique.
This is where the methods we employ first came from. First the idea, then...
how can I do it? Finally, a developed method or technique. Mastery of a
skill
I like this discussion because what mel says is so true... every one who
comes here wants first to know HOW? Why reinvent the wheel? After they
practice a while, the techniques lead them more and more into the realm of
new ideas and what they can do to satisfy the urge to create.
I think both ideas and techniques matter but neither is effective without
the other... hence the baby analogy.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
wendtpot@lewiston.com
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