Malcolm Schosha on thu 2 oct 03
Hollis,
If I use even a faintly humerous phrase, the result is a lot of
snarling. I have said with almost every post that I do not consider
my opinions a standerd for other potters. I realize that I have
opinions that some potters don't like. I realize that I am not always
the most tactful person, that I can be blunt.
But,I have not said that there is a single potter who does not belong
on this forum, not even those who have said things about me that are
unforgivable. I know that there are many who want to see me gone from
this forum. But, I have called no one crazy, or a liar, no matter how
much I disagreed with them. I have had this sort of accusation, and
more thrown at me. How nice.
A while back someone asked a question about pottery and the counter
culture. I did not follow the thread. But I can remember back in the
sixties and seventies when when there was a lot of talk about
challenging authority. There were a lot of layers, engineers,
business people, etc who became potters. It was a different life,
away from arbitrary rules and authority. I wonder if some of these
same people are among those so upset that I have questioned the
pottery authority of certain icons of the movement, like Leach and
Hamada? To me it is very strange how things have become like this,
have become so undemocratic.
Hollis, I suppose there is a certain wierd "hilarious" quality about
the situation on this forum. In any case, I did not say that anyone's
life was a mistake; what I said was just intended as a slightly
humorous way of saying that I expected no one to change because of
what I said. If you think I did not explain myself clearly enough;
sorry. But if you want to grade my posts, then it would be only fair
to put a grade, for grammer and writing quality, on every post.
Malcolm Schosha
Brooklyn, Ny
.....................................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Hollis Engley wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Malcolm Schosha
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Skill and control as a goal of art/craft
>
>
> > Phil,
> >
> There are quite a number of well established potters on this forum
> > who have built their careers on an aproach to pottery, and to
> > artistic creation in general, that I feel is quite mistaken. Such
> > potters, with their careers and income based on their current
> > aproach, will not stand up and declare that their lives were a
> > mistake.
>
>
> Honest to God, Malcolm, reading stuff like this is like slowing
down on the
> highway to stare at the aftermath of a head-on collision. I don't
want to
> read it, but I can't help myself. I mean, really, this "lives were a
> mistake" business is hilarious. You can't expect anyone to take that
> seriously. Really, you can't. Do you? I can just see all the Leach-
and
> Hamada-influenced potters prostrating themselves after they read
(to quote
> Joe Pesci in "My Cousin Vinnie") "this ... ridiculous thing,"
finally
> realizing their huge mistake, too late, turning to selling life
insurance or
> day-old bread, shattered, all day long muttering "no more anagamas,
no more
> loose pots, no more quarter-inch walls, Lord, please, no more ... "
> You crack me up.
>
> Hollis Engley
> Hatchville Pottery
> Falmouth, Mass.
> hengley@c...
>
>
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Hollis Engley on fri 3 oct 03
----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolm Schosha
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Skill and control as a goal of art/craft: Hollis
> Hollis,
>
> If I use even a faintly humerous phrase, the result is a lot of
> snarling. I have said with almost every post that I do not consider
> my opinions a standerd for other potters.
... In any case, I did not say that anyone's
life was a mistake; what I said was just intended as a slightly
humorous way of saying that I expected no one to change because of
what I said. If you think I did not explain myself clearly enough;
sorry. But if you want to grade my posts, then it would be only fair
to put a grade, for grammer and writing quality, on every post.
>
> Malcolm: Indeed you did say that there are potters on this list who "will
not stand up and declare that their lives are a mistake." I told you that
statement strikes me as hilarious, and I said that because it would be
ludicrous to take it seriously. I mean, why waste the energy on something
that silly? Really. And I'm not grading your grammar, your writing quality
or your spelling. I'm simply trying to tell you - not that I expect you to
understand this - that when you make statements like that you lose people.
You lose their attention, you lose their respect, and you lose any chance at
dialogue. I've only been part of this list for a few weeks, but I've at
least figured that one out.
Hollis
Hatchville Pottery
Falmouth, Mass.
hengley@cape.com
Malcolm Schosha on fri 3 oct 03
Hollis,
Just to help your memory, below is the entire paragraph in queastion.
I think that anyone with normal reading skills can understand that
what I said is that if people are dug in on a position they will not
change just because I disagree with them. If they have wasted their
lives is for them to decide, it is not my concern.
I do think it unfortunate that young students of pottery have no fair
exposure to a very great Western Classical Tradition that is, in some
places, still living, and producing innovative results within that
tradition.
Hollis, if I chose to, with selective quotes from your posts, I could
easily make you look stupid, mean and crazy; but that would be an
unfair and dishonest aproach.
Malcolm Schosha
Brooklyn, NY
"There are quite a number of well established potters on this forum
who have built their careers on an aproach to pottery, and to
artistic creation in general, that I feel is quite mistaken. Such
potters, with their careers and income based on their current
aproach, will not stand up and declare that their lives were a
mistake. And why should they? It could be that they are right and I
am wrong. What I do hope for is that some young potters, who are
still early in their studies, will at least give a little thought to
other possibilities based on mastery of traditional Classical skills."
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Hollis Engley wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Malcolm Schosha
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Skill and control as a goal of art/craft: Hollis
>
>
> > Hollis,
> >
> > If I use even a faintly humerous phrase, the result is a lot of
> > snarling. I have said with almost every post that I do not
consider
> > my opinions a standerd for other potters.
> ... In any case, I did not say that anyone's
> life was a mistake; what I said was just intended as a slightly
> humorous way of saying that I expected no one to change because of
> what I said. If you think I did not explain myself clearly enough;
> sorry. But if you want to grade my posts, then it would be only fair
> to put a grade, for grammer and writing quality, on every post.
>
>
>
> >
> > Malcolm: Indeed you did say that there are potters on this list
who "will
> not stand up and declare that their lives are a mistake." I told
you that
> statement strikes me as hilarious, and I said that because it would
be
> ludicrous to take it seriously. I mean, why waste the energy on
something
> that silly? Really. And I'm not grading your grammar, your writing
quality
> or your spelling. I'm simply trying to tell you - not that I expect
you to
> understand this - that when you make statements like that you lose
people.
> You lose their attention, you lose their respect, and you lose any
chance at
> dialogue. I've only been part of this list for a few weeks, but
I've at
> least figured that one out.
> Hollis
> Hatchville Pottery
> Falmouth, Mass.
> hengley@c...
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@l...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@p...
Hollis Engley on fri 3 oct 03
----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolm Schosha
To:
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: Skill and control as a goal of art/craft: Hollis
> Hollis,
>
> Just to help your memory, below is the entire paragraph in queastion.
> I think that anyone with normal reading skills can understand that
> what I said is that if people are dug in on a position they will not
> change just because I disagree with them. If they have wasted their
> lives is for them to decide, it is not my concern.
>
Malcolm: End of discussion. There are so many better things to do.
H.
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