Marek & Pauline Drzazga Donaldson on fri 3 oct 03
Sorry Mel,
omitted one of the important ingredients in my last post :-
Throw with the whole of your BODY and RELAX - even with all this =
shouting. Rest of the message pasted below.
Dear Lois,
I throw big, and it is not because I am built like a "brick shit house", =
as I have thought for years, but because I discovered how to throw big =
almost by accident.
You actually put in LESS effort throwing large (anyway I do) than small. =
Use the energy that is coming in towards you - that is if the wheel is =
anti-clockwise as is normal in the West - from the left, just deflect =
that energy back into the clay, hardly any force is required. Deal with =
segments of the lump of clay not trying all at once - but the most =
important factor is to have the clay SOFT, use your wheel SLOW, and =
don't force anything, just COAX it where you want it to go.
happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com=20
Marek & Pauline Drzazga Donaldson on fri 3 oct 03
Dear Lois,
I throw big, and it is not because I am built like a "brick shit house", =
as I have thought for years, but because I discovered how to throw big =
almost by accident.
You actually put in LESS effort throwing large (anyway I do) than small. =
Use the energy that is coming in towards you - that is if the wheel is =
anti-clockwise as is normal in the West - from the left, just deflect =
that energy back into the clay, hardly any force is required. Deal with =
segments of the lump of clay not trying all at once - but the most =
important factor is to have the clay SOFT, use your wheel SLOW, and =
don't force anything, just COAX it where you want it to go.
happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com
Lee Love on fri 3 oct 03
I've mentioned this here before.
For throwing tall, John Reeve showed us how some of the Old English
potters threw their tall pitchers (some curators from London brought him
some specimens and was asked to figure them out):
You first throw a pancake for the bottom. Cut it off, set it aside
to stiffen a little (or use the trusty blow torch.) Then, you throw a
bottomless cylinder, shaping the top so it will become the bottom. The
the part of the cylinder nearest the wheel head relatively thick, for later.
When the pancake is stiff enough, put it on the the top of the cylinder
(which becomes the bottom.) If you cut a nice wire cut on the bottom, the
mark will stay if you are careful. You place the pancake on after scoring
and slipping, and then cut off the excess. You can bevel the edge.
When it stiffens enough, you cut it off from the bat, flip it over, hold the
bottom to the wheel head with clay and finish throwing the top. You can
probably throw twice as tall as your normal skill, you don't have to worry
about "S" cracks and can dry fast if you have to and the bottom seam doesn't
have as much trouble holding as would connecting two cylinders. It is a
fun trick.
lee In Mashiko
Eleanor on fri 3 oct 03
I hesitate to mention this; it may no longer be available...
Ivor Lewis wrote Throwing Tall Pots for PMI, Fall 1998. Text and
numerous explicit drawings. And the method works.
My public library got a photocopy for me---this was before I
subscribed to the magazine and bought back issues.
PMI's website indicates that issues before 2000 aren't available.
Ivor also wrote Bowl Making for the Summer 1998 issue. Excellent
text/drawings. The technique is similar to that described in Cardew's
Pioneer Pottery. It also works.
Eleanor Kohler
Centerport, NY
Potlifters are a godsend.
Liz Gowen on fri 3 oct 03
My method for throwing large pots is a combination of a slab and coil. =
There is no way I can center large amounts of clay anymore. ( even this =
method I haven't tried in a number of years but served me well before)
I roll a slab for the base, the thickness I want. Before putting it =
on a bat I used to cover the bat with sheets of paper from an old =
telephone book then put the slab on and trim the circle with the wheel =
turning slightly.The paper helps with removal and I don't have to worry =
about the cut off wire going up in the center and thinning the base. One =
disadvantage is the paper leaves a bit of a mark so might try using a =
canvas bat instead if I were to try it today.
I then take a thick 3 to 4" diameter coil of soft clay, fit it =
around the slab base, part on part off. Where the 2 ends meet, overlap =
the coil and cut on a diagnal so fits neatly together. Smush together, =
clay is soft so no scoring necessary. Kick up the wheel and even the =
coils out as you would center then throw the first level.. Either let =
set up or force dry with paint stripper till stiff enough to accept =
another 3-4"coil. Add as before and throw, on and on till reaches the =
size you wish. I just roll the coils but I imagine the extruded would be =
nice as well. Have made a pot that just about fills an L&L J230 ( 3 =
level). After it sets up can run a wire under the paper or canvas bat to =
release, flip over, Peel off the canvas or paper, add feet , handles....
This method I also use for large platters/bowls. Think I probably =
compress the slab base as you would any other piece you throw to prevent =
s cracks etc.
For me I'd like to find a hydaulic table so I could start with the =
wheel at a higher hight then lower as the pot gets taller. Saw one in a =
medical supply book at PT but havn't followed up on it yet. Part of my =
studio adaptation. This of course would be for my electric shimpo wheel =
not my motorized kick wheel.
Luck and if anything is not clear give me a holler.
Liz Gowen NJ
Mike Gordon on sat 11 sep 04
HI,
When I was teaching ceramics at a high school in Pleasanton, Ca., my
advanced students would set aside wed. to try and throw 25lbs. , we
used Soldate 60, from Laguna. It became known as " bagger wednesday
".Once they started they couldn't stop, they wanted to throw big. We
threw vases though not bowls, unless they were making fountains. I
taught them to center from the top down, first centering just the top,
make it perfect, then place the heal of your hand on the ledge of clay
that is created from the pressure of your right hand pushing into the
mass, with the other hand on the opposite side of the clay pulling
towards you, and slowly push that ledge or ridge of clay slowly down
to the wheel head.Do this several times.Keep your right elbow locked
tight into your ribs and hip and lean your whole body into it if
needed. The last step of centering I would switch hands, left hand on
my hip, right hand oppisite and with the clay turning into my left hand
I would start at the bottom and slowly go up to the top, re- flatten
the top and put a baseball size dent in the top and fill it with water.
Then I stand up over the mound, make a fist with my left hand and
slowly open it up. It's really easy after the first 7 0r 8 bags! HA!
Really, the kids loved it, and my best student graduated to 50lbs. and
then 75, and finally did 100lbs. He was amazing, Youth! Hope this
helped, Mike Gordon, Walnut Creek, Ca. ( retired) I love that part!
Bonnie Staffel on sun 12 sep 04
Whew, Mike, I am exhausted after reading about your centering such a huge
amount of clay. I did 75 pounds once when I was younger and I had to rest
up my sore muscles for a couple of days. If you would just learn the coil
and slab method of throwing, it is a piece of cake. Then your clay is still
fresh and strong without all that water used to center.
Regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel
http://www.vasefinder.com/
Potters Council member
Susan Nebeker on sun 12 sep 04
Mike,
If you are ever in the Willamette Valley here in Oregon, you can see Joel's planters and other containers at the Woodburn Outlet Mall on freeway I-5. I live about 10 minutes away from the place and get to see his work often. They are HUGE and beautiful, most are glazed by pouring a beautiful red glaze partially over a body stained with RIO. The garbage cans and the others are washed with RIO only.
I think the clay he used for these monumental pieces was very important to their success also.- a very strong, stable and open clay, George Wright's famous Hair Of The Dog, either alone or in combination with a sculpture clay. Those pots have been outdoors through all the seasons, they are never brought in even when it gets below freezing. I think it's been 3 or 4 years now.
And yes- he loaded his work with a forklift into that extraordinary kiln. His wheel was specially built- hydraulically I think- to handle those hundreds of pounds.
Ivor,
You are right, the man's techniques were pretty amazing and totally based on laws of physics. Your scientific mind would be fascinated if you saw him at work- however, I must confess for myself that my brain began to fuzz while listening to him explain those particular principles! :)
Susan Nebeker
Pollywog Pottery
Mike Gordon wrote:
Hi ,
Speaking of Joel Cottet, I remember many years ago an article in
Ceramics Monthly, I wish I could remember the potters name, but I think
he was in Oregon, he threw 500lb. planters for shopping centers, etc.
He moved the clay onto the wheel with a fork lift and braced his back
against the barn wall to center. I seem to remember a lot of the
pressure he applied to the clay was with the hand that faced into the
turn of the wheel, the article comes to mind because this potter also
mentioned that one day the bat came loose and threw him into the barn
wall, breaking his arm! Mike Gordon
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Mike Gordon on sun 12 sep 04
Hi Bonnie,
Oh I know, I was sore as well after the 75lbs. and I know of the other
methods you describe, I guess it is the challenge and of course the
fact that classes were only 50 min. long! Mike Gordon
On Sep 11, 2004, at 10:39 PM, Bonnie Staffel wrote:
> Whew, Mike, I am exhausted after reading about your centering such a
> huge
> amount of clay. I did 75 pounds once when I was younger and I had to
> rest
> up my sore muscles for a couple of days. If you would just learn the
> coil
> and slab method of throwing, it is a piece of cake. Then your clay is
> still
> fresh and strong without all that water used to center.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bonnie Staffel
> http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel
> http://www.vasefinder.com/
> Potters Council member
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Mike Gordon on sun 12 sep 04
Hi ,
Speaking of Joel Cottet, I remember many years ago an article in
Ceramics Monthly, I wish I could remember the potters name, but I think
he was in Oregon, he threw 500lb. planters for shopping centers, etc.
He moved the clay onto the wheel with a fork lift and braced his back
against the barn wall to center. I seem to remember a lot of the
pressure he applied to the clay was with the hand that faced into the
turn of the wheel, the article comes to mind because this potter also
mentioned that one day the bat came loose and threw him into the barn
wall, breaking his arm! Mike Gordon
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on sun 12 sep 04
Dear Clayarters,
throwing big is easier than throwing small if you understand the basic =
physics involved. The throwing process is a whole body experience - you =
use all your body - soft clay - and most important - use the energy that =
is in the clay (the rotational energy in a large piece of clay is =
massive) by deflecting it back into itself, saving all your own energy =
to concentrate on the form you will be throwing. Big really is simple.
happy potting Marek www.moley.uk.com
Earl Brunner on sun 12 sep 04
I think that WAS Joel Cottet.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike Gordon
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:52 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: throwing big
Hi ,
Speaking of Joel Cottet, I remember many years ago an article in
Ceramics Monthly, I wish I could remember the potters name, but I think
he was in Oregon, he threw 500lb. planters for shopping centers, etc.
He moved the clay onto the wheel with a fork lift and braced his back
against the barn wall to center. I seem to remember a lot of the
pressure he applied to the clay was with the hand that faced into the
turn of the wheel, the article comes to mind because this potter also
mentioned that one day the bat came loose and threw him into the barn
wall, breaking his arm! Mike Gordon
Mark Strayer on mon 13 sep 04
That must have been some wheel, some bat and some big pair of hands!!!
>-- Original Message --
>Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:51:37 -0700
>Reply-To: Clayart
>From: Mike Gordon
>Subject: throwing big
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
>
>Hi ,
>Speaking of Joel Cottet, I remember many years ago an article in
>Ceramics Monthly, I wish I could remember the potters name, but I think
>he was in Oregon, he threw 500lb. planters for shopping centers, etc.
>He moved the clay onto the wheel with a fork lift and braced his back
>against the barn wall to center. I seem to remember a lot of the
>pressure he applied to the clay was with the hand that faced into the
>turn of the wheel, the article comes to mind because this potter also
>mentioned that one day the bat came loose and threw him into the barn
>wall, breaking his arm! Mike Gordon
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
______
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pcli=
nk.com.
Geoffrey Gaskell on mon 13 sep 04
Bonnie Staffel wrote:
>Whew, Mike, I am exhausted after reading about your centering such a huge
>amount of clay. I did 75 pounds once when I was younger and I had to rest
>up my sore muscles for a couple of days. If you would just learn the coil
>and slab method of throwing, it is a piece of cake. Then your clay is still
>fresh and strong without all that water used to center.
>
This seems to me now to be an excellent piece of advice. In the past
year or so, I devoted myself almost exclusively, when making pots,
vessels or bowls of one type or another, to making miniature or smallish
things on the wheel. I simply didn't make large things on the wheel (&
still have no particular interest in acquiring such a skill) & therefore
I didn't make large pots etc. Someone, however, very recently
demonstrated to me just how easy it is to make very decent large pots by
the coil &/or slab methods, which a certain measure of innate impatience
had heretofore prevented me taking any personal interest in the practice
thereof. All this has just recently changed, & as certain acquaintances
have said, my large handbuilt pottery pieces suddenly "seem to be
breeding like rabbits".
Geoffrey Gaskell
Steve Mills on mon 13 sep 04
It was, I still have the article......somewhere!
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Earl Brunner writes
>I think that WAS Joel Cottet.
>
>Earl Brunner
>Las Vegas, NV
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike Gordon
>Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:52 AM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: throwing big
>
>Hi ,
>Speaking of Joel Cottet, I remember many years ago an article in
>Ceramics Monthly, I wish I could remember the potters name,
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on wed 15 sep 04
An amendment to "throwing big is easier than throwing small" to read =
"centering big ....". I do however still believe that "throwing big" is =
not hard, it is just a mind set to get through. I teach beginners to =
throw quite big from the start.
happy potting Marek www.moley.uk.com
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