Jeffrey Spielberg on tue 21 oct 03
Hello Clayartists,
I am new to LISTSERV and somewhat new to pottery. I have been taking
classes off and on for the last six years at the local potters guild in
boulder colorado, and have recently decided to up my commitment to the
art. I just bought my first wheel (Creative Industries) last week and
I am in the process of daydreaming about kilns. I have decided to try
to turn my furnace room into a small studio, and that is where the
wheel is currently (kind of wedged between the furnace and the water
heater).
Anyway, enough background; I am thinking of getting an electric kiln
(probably from Bennetts in FL). The top choices are the L&L Easy-fire
e23T or the e28T. The e23T is a cone 10 kiln, and the e28T is a cone 8
kiln. I really don't know much about firing, but I do want to make
functional ware (plates, mugs, baking dishes, platters, etc.), and I
recall the higher the cone the more durable the piece.
I am currently leaning towards the cone 8 kiln because I like to make
big pieces, and it is 28 inches wide (and 27 tall giving it ~10 cubic
feet - 5 inches wider than the smaller kiln). But I am wondering what I
am giving up by not going with a cone 10 kiln.
All my experience in class has been with cone 10 reduction. Can you
still make extremely durable, colorful stoneware in an oxidation firing
at cone 6 or cone 8?
Thanks for any insight or advice -
Jeff Spielberg
Louisville, CO
Norman van der Sluys on wed 22 oct 03
Indeed it is possible to make durable colorful stoneware at cone 6. I
suggest "Mastering Cone 6 Glazes by our own Ron and John.
Jeffrey Spielberg wrote:
>
> All my experience in class has been with cone 10 reduction. Can you
> still make extremely durable, colorful stoneware in an oxidation firing
> at cone 6 or cone 8?
--
Norman van der Sluys
Benona Pottery
Near the shore of Lake Michigan
John Hesselberth on wed 22 oct 03
On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 02:26 PM, Jeffrey Spielberg wrote:
> All my experience in class has been with cone 10 reduction. Can you
> still make extremely durable, colorful stoneware in an oxidation firing
> at cone 6 or cone 8?
Hi Jeff,
Absolutely. I can't think of more than a couple possible reasons to
fire to cone 10 (or cone 8 for that matter) in an electric kiln. The
things you list above are not among them. The two reasons I can think
of are 1) you are a purist at heart and don't think porcelain can be
had at cone 6 (and you want to work in porcelain)--we get into that
debate every couple years on Clayart and 2) some potters working with
macro crystalline glazes will tell you cone 10 is necessary--although I
have seen beautiful macro crystalline work done at cone 6. Actually, it
is becoming more popular to fire gas kilns only to cone 6--saves
energy, reduces cristoballite problems and more. It's just my personal
opinion, but I think cone 10 is more of a 'tradition' vs. offering any
significant advantages in today's world--gas or electric. It was more
necessary before boron became widely available as a glaze ingredient.
Firing an electric kiln to cone 10 will result in the need to replace
elements far more frequently than firing the same kiln to cone 6.
Now to confuse you more--to me, the best choice is to buy a kiln rated
for cone 10 (with 3 inch walls) and only fire it to cone 6. That will
give you the best balance of operating costs, low maintenance, and
flexibility.
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
Runyan,Jacob on wed 22 oct 03
If money were no object, I would have had much the same
question's regarding kilns. Unfortunately, it was, so I
purchased a large cone 6 electric evenheat kiln for 50
bucks and refurbished it. Now for the question part...you
have mentioned two reasons for cone ten, I'm wondering if I
may have a third (hopefully not). I would like to begin
exploring wood ash glazes, but all recipes I have run
across thus far are cone 10. Do cone 6 glazes exist, or is
the temperature just too low to melt the ash?
Thanks in advance for responses,
Jacob
On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 02:26 PM, Jeffrey
Spielberg wrote:
>All my experience in class has been with cone 10
reduction. Can you
>still make extremely durable, colorful stoneware in an
oxidation firing
>at cone 6 or cone 8?
Hi Jeff,
Absolutely. I can't think of more than a couple possible
reasons to
fire to cone 10 (or cone 8 for that matter) in an electric
kiln. The
things you list above are not among them. The two reasons
I can think
of are 1) you are a purist at heart and don't think
porcelain can be
had at cone 6 (and you want to work in porcelain)--we get
into that
debate every couple years on Clayart and 2) some potters
working with
macro crystalline glazes will tell you cone 10 is
necessary--although I
have seen beautiful macro crystalline work done at cone 6.
Actually, it
is becoming more popular to fire gas kilns only to cone
6--saves
energy, reduces cristoballite problems and more. It's just
my personal
opinion, but I think cone 10 is more of a 'tradition' vs.
offering any
significant advantages in today's world--gas or electric.
It was more
necessary before boron became widely available as a glaze
ingredient.
Firing an electric kiln to cone 10 will result in the need
to replace
elements far more frequently than firing the same kiln to
cone 6.
Now to confuse you more--to me, the best choice is to buy a
kiln rated
for cone 10 (with 3 inch walls) and only fire it to cone 6.
That will
give you the best balance of operating costs, low
maintenance, and
flexibility.
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
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william schran on thu 23 oct 03
Jeff wrote:>I am currently leaning towards the cone 8 kiln because I
like to make
big pieces, and it is 28 inches wide (and 27 tall giving it ~10 cubic
feet - 5 inches wider than the smaller kiln). But I am wondering what I
am giving up by not going with a cone 10 kiln.<
When a manufacturer lists what the kiln will fire to, ^8 or ^10 in
this instance, they are specifying top temperature. The more often
you take a kiln to top temperature, the more strain you put on the
kiln, especially the elements, and the more often you'll have to
replace them.
In our school situation, our L&L's are rated to go to ^10, but we
only fire to ^6. Because of the number of firings we do, I have to
replace the elements about every 18 - 24 months (could let them go
longer, but the firing time is much longer and I only have a limited
amount of time to sit with the kilns).
So - the kiln rated to ^10, fired to ^6 will probably require less
element replacement, but depending on how often you fire, it will
probably not make any difference. Perhaps the bigger issue is getting
the kiln to fit the work you plan on making. In this case bigger is
better.
Bill
Snail Scott on thu 23 oct 03
At 12:26 PM 10/21/03 -0600, you wrote:
>The top choices are the L&L Easy-fire
>e23T or the e28T. The e23T is a cone 10 kiln, and the e28T is a cone 8
>kiln. I really don't know much about firing, but I do want to make
>functional ware...
You can make fine functional ware at ^6, if you
use a true ^6 clay body and not one of those
so-called ^5-10 clays. Some other considerations:
Even if you never fire to ^10, a ^10-rated kiln's
elements will last longer firing to a lower temp
like ^6 than the ^8-rated kiln's will.
The larger kiln will hold larger work, but will
cost more to fire a load. The smaller kiln will
be cheaper to operate, but you'll have to fire
more often. Would you prefer fewer, larger firings,
or smaller firings with faster turnarounds?
-Snail
Zsuzsa Koltay on fri 24 oct 03
I didn't read every single posting of this thread, so sorry if this
duplicates what someone else might already have said. Anyway, can you get
the larger kiln with a powered bottom? That would raise the top temp.
Zsuzsa
Gene and Dolita Dohrman on fri 24 oct 03
Jeff, I too went through the same dilemma in choosing an L&L Easy Fire Kiln.
Decided to go with the e23T with 3" brick and am also going to buy their
vent sure system. I asked Clayart people almost the same question you did.
The 3" brick seemed like a no-brainer to everyone. The e23T is just as tall
as the e28T. I opted for the Cone 10 ability. However, I do believe you
can get the e28T with the Cone 10 ability if you go to 3 phase. I will be
ordering mine very soon. We will have to compare notes. Let me know what
you decide.
Dolita
dohrman@insightbb.com
Louisville, KY
John Hesselberth on fri 24 oct 03
On Wednesday, October 22, 2003, at 06:26 PM, Runyan,Jacob wrote:
> Do cone 6 ash glazes exist, or is
> the temperature just too low to melt the ash?
Hi Jacob,
I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I about ash glazes would
respond to this, but since no one has, well.... I find it hard to
believe you couldn't make ash glazes at cone 6; however, I have never
tried. Ashes, of course, are highly variable in composition, but most
have a couple or three different fluxing materials plus some silica (or
phosphorus in the case of bone ash). You might have to use a little
boron like you do in most cone 6 glazes. Give it a try.
Anyone else have a more knowledgeable answer for Jacob?
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on fri 24 oct 03
Hi Jacob,
On Wednesday, October 22, 2003, at 06:26 PM, Runyan,Jacob wrote:
" Do cone 6 ash glazes exist, or is
the temperature just too low to melt the ash?"
James Chappell has 5 recipes for C/6 ash glazes in his book,
page 388 and 389 of the 1977 version.
I have tested many at C/04, some containing more than 40% of
washed (5 times) 60-mesh sieved hardwood ash.
So, I think it is feasible.
Later,
> On Wednesday, October 22, 2003, at 06:26 PM, Runyan,Jacob wrote:
>
> > Do cone 6 ash glazes exist, or is
> > the temperature just too low to melt the ash?
>
> Hi Jacob,
>
> I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I about ash glazes would
> respond to this, but since no one has, well.... I find it hard to
> believe you couldn't make ash glazes at cone 6; however, I have never
> tried. Ashes, of course, are highly variable in composition, but most
> have a couple or three different fluxing materials plus some silica (or
> phosphorus in the case of bone ash). You might have to use a little
> boron like you do in most cone 6 glazes. Give it a try.
>
> Anyone else have a more knowledgeable answer for Jacob?
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
> http://www.frogpondpottery.com
> http://www.masteringglazes.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Logan Oplinger on sat 25 oct 03
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:26:12 -0400, Runyan,Jacob
wrote:
>....I would like to begin
>exploring wood ash glazes, but all recipes I have run
>across thus far are cone 10. Do cone 6 glazes exist, or is
>the temperature just too low to melt the ash?
>
>Thanks in advance for responses,
>
>Jacob
=========================================================================
Hello Jacob,
I responded earlier this week to your inquiry about ^6 ash glazes, but for
some reason the message did not make the list, even though the list server
indicated the message had been received. Following is some of the
information I sent to the list.
Logan
http://www.potters.org/SEARCH.ASP?QU=%22ash+glaze%22+and+%22cone+6%
22&titleorbody=body&maximumResults=200
http://www.ceramicstoday.com/midfire.htm
http://ceramics.lifetips.com/TipSC.asp__Q__id__E__61942
http://grafik.sdsu.edu:591/clayartsearch.html
(NOTE: Use "ash glaze" in the Look Everywhere: [contains] option; and "6"
in the Cone: [contains] option.)
http://grafik.sdsu.edu:591/glazebasesearch.html
(NOTE: Use "ash glaze" in the Look Everywhere: [contains] option; and "6"
in the Cone: [contains] option.)
Charles Moore on sat 25 oct 03
Hello, Jacob and John,
To John's reply, I would add that Axner's is a consistent source of hardwood
ash.
In addition, Carol Tripp posted a Val Cushing ^6 ash glaze today on Clayart.
If you missed the Cushing glaze, I'll send the recipe to you.
Charles Moore
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hesselberth"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: New Kiln - Size vs. Temp
> On Wednesday, October 22, 2003, at 06:26 PM, Runyan,Jacob wrote:
>
> > Do cone 6 ash glazes exist, or is
> > the temperature just too low to melt the ash?
>
> Hi Jacob,
>
> I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I about ash glazes would
> respond to this, but since no one has, well.... I find it hard to
> believe you couldn't make ash glazes at cone 6; however, I have never
> tried. Ashes, of course, are highly variable in composition, but most
> have a couple or three different fluxing materials plus some silica (or
> phosphorus in the case of bone ash). You might have to use a little
> boron like you do in most cone 6 glazes. Give it a try.
>
> Anyone else have a more knowledgeable answer for Jacob?
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
> http://www.frogpondpottery.com
> http://www.masteringglazes.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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