Russel Fouts on sat 25 oct 03
Vince, Snail, all you Ms. and Mr. fix its
I've got several unfinished, square, slightly less than 1 inch thick, pine
boards that have warped a bit. I'd like them to be not warped ;-)
I've read suggestions about wetting them and pressing them but how wet and
for how long?
My idea is to give them a bit of a soak then stack them on a flat surface
warped side to warped side with the grains crossing and put a couple of
patio stones on top of the stack. How does that sound? Might mildew be a
problem? Maybe I'll put some bleach or Thymol crystals in the water.
By the way, these are not bats, I don't use bats. ;-)
Thank you very much in advance.
Russel (slightly warped as well but I like myself that way)
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
Home of "The Potters Portal"
Over 2300 Pottery Related Links!
Updated frequently
My work can also be seen on:
The World Crafts Council International Site: http://www.wccwis.gr
The World Crafts Council Belgium Site: http://wcc-bf.org (English Pages)
EasyCraft: http://www.easycraft.org
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
public." --U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) Theodore
Roosevelt.
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 25 oct 03
Hi Russel,
Forget it...!
Unless the Pine board sections have the growth rings
perpendicular to the plane of the surfaces ie: Auarter
Sawn,), or, even then, if exposed to more moisture on one
side than the other, they will cup...
If you really want to use these for Bats, soak them very
thoroughtly in a solution of Poly Ethelyne Glycol...let them
dry...have some Cabinet Shop Joint them and surface them
then...then they should stay 'flat'...
As a temporary measure as will not effect a permenant cure,
you could also set them outside on some inert surface as
does not have any moisture in it, in the Sunshine with the
covex side 'up' and keep an eye on them...or, either wet the
concave side lightly, or, set them concave side on grass of
damp concrete or something...and check on their progress so
they do not go too far the other way...!
Best wishes,
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russel Fouts"
> Vince, Snail, all you Ms. and Mr. fix its
>
> I've got several unfinished, square, slightly less than 1
inch thick, pine
> boards that have warped a bit. I'd like them to be not
warped ;-)
>
> I've read suggestions about wetting them and pressing them
but how wet and
> for how long?
>
> My idea is to give them a bit of a soak then stack them on
a flat surface
> warped side to warped side with the grains crossing and
put a couple of
> patio stones on top of the stack. How does that sound?
Might mildew be a
> problem? Maybe I'll put some bleach or Thymol crystals in
the water.
>
> By the way, these are not bats, I don't use bats. ;-)
>
> Thank you very much in advance.
>
> Russel (slightly warped as well but I like myself that
way)
>
>
>
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>
> Http://www.mypots.com
> Home of "The Potters Portal"
> Over 2300 Pottery Related Links!
> Updated frequently
>
> My work can also be seen on:
> The World Crafts Council International Site:
http://www.wccwis.gr
> The World Crafts Council Belgium Site: http://wcc-bf.org
(English Pages)
> EasyCraft: http://www.easycraft.org
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
president, or that
> we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not
only
> unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American
> public." --U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner)
Theodore
> Roosevelt.
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Russel Fouts on sun 26 oct 03
Phil,
They're not for bats, I don't use bats. They're tops for boxes.
>> Unless the Pine board sections have the growth rings perpendicular to the plane of the surfaces ie: Auarter Sawn,), or, even then, if exposed to more moisture on one side than the other, they will cup... <<
They're half sawn but they are each one, two pieces laminated together
accross the grain that have still managed to warp.
>> If you really want to use these for Bats, soak them very thoroughtly in a solution of Poly Ethelyne Glycol...let them dry...have some Cabinet Shop Joint them and surface them then...then they should stay 'flat'... <<
Is this just anti-freeze? What's the solution and what does the finish
look like if they are not finished by a cabinet shop. I liked the look
of raw pine.
>> As a temporary measure as will not effect a permenant cure,you could also set them outside on some inert surface as does not have any moisture in it, in the Sunshine with the covex side 'up' and keep an eye on them...or, either wet the concave side lightly, or, set them concave side on grass of damp concrete or something...and check on their progress so they do not go too far the other way...! <<
Sunshine, warmth and dryness are not likely, this is Belgium. Could I
send them to Vegas? ;-)
Thanks
Russel
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
Home of "The Potters Portal"
Over 1800 Pottery Links!
Updated frequently
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) Theodore Roosevelt.
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 26 oct 03
Hi Russel...
Oh..! Okay...not Bats...
If these were intended for the Lids of Boxes...they were not
carefully elected.
'Half-Sawn' I do not understand...in Lumber or other Sawn
Wood there is generally 'Quarter Sawn', Rift Sawn and Slash
Sawn...or at least so far as I am familiar.
If the growth rings on the Board's end, or on the end of the
short section or 'square' as may be, as you have, if the
growth rings are seen as perpendicular to the plane of the
Board's face, it is Quarter Sawn. If they are consistantly
at a small paralell angle to the face, it is Rift
Sawn...anything else is Slash Sawn.
When Logs are Sawn, imagining looking at the end...if they
are Sawn in paralell cuts, it is Slash.
Slash will contain at it's center, a few Quarter Sawn
Boards, and, a few Rift Sawn Boards.
If the Log is cut into Boards as may be imagined to radiate
from the center as spokes...the Wood has been Quarter Sawn.
All of these Boards will exhibit growth rings as are
perpendicular to the face of the Boards.
The laminating of two Slash Sawn pieces with a view toward
stabalizeing their movements in the gaining or loss of
ambient or other moisture is not a very wise or assured
expedient or compromise. or certainly not if the exact
orientation of the structure of them is not balanced, which,
I take it, was not the case.
A Quarter Sawn 'lid', through the course of seasonal ambient
moisture changes, will stay more true than any other ring
configuration. Rift may do so as well...Slash never, or, it
is unlikely. It will move one way or the other according to
it's propensities.
Quarter Sawn Boards or pieces, if exposed to more or less
equal moisture on each side will remain quite flat.
Rift will as well...
Slash will allways have one face react more than the other,
and will either cup or twist...as, the incidence or angle at
which the growth rings intersect the plane of the Board's
face will not be consistant across that face.
Cup is an more or less shallow "U" shape, Twist is twist...'
warping' is generally understood as twist, and is
distinguished from 'cupping'...
So called Winter growth rings are denser than Summer rings,
and hence the latter will absorb or release moisture more.
Also, the movement in line with the rings is greater than
the movement across them. That is why Logs will split as
they dry; the shrinkage in line with the growth rings is
greater than the shrinkage across them.
Seasoned Lumber moves similarly, if less so than 'green',
with ambient moisture changes, whether or not it has a
'Finish' on it.
If one pickles some Wood in Polyethyline Glycol, the pores
exchange their moisture for the essentially 'plastic-waxy'
of the chemical and the Wood becomes permiated and then
stabalized. It will not care what it's ring orientation is
at that point, as there is no longer any porosity for it to
matter in moisture exchanges with the Atmosphere.
If these Boxes have some importance, you should do the Lids
over again in the appropriate growth ring configuration of
either Quarter Sawn or Rift Sawn Pine.
A Lid restrained by a sturdy frame may be more
forgiveing...if the Lid is the short 'board' only, it will
not be forgiveing of these matters.
Are these something you are making yourself, or something
you have had made for you?
Either way...rethink the importance here of the 'rings'...of
how Wood moves and why it moves the way it does.
You may then anticipate when and why various ring
orientations shall matter.
You should be able to obtain or elect or request some Pine
as has the correct growth ring orientation for this
application, and, redo the Lids.
Best wishes allways!
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russel Fouts"
> Phil,
>
> They're not for bats, I don't use bats. They're tops for
boxes.
> They're half sawn but they are each one, two pieces
laminated together
> accross the grain that have still managed to warp.
> Is this just anti-freeze? What's the solution and what
does the finish
> look like if they are not finished by a cabinet shop. I
liked the look
> of raw pine.
>
>
> Sunshine, warmth and dryness are not likely, this is
Belgium. Could I
> send them to Vegas? ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> Russel
>
> --
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>
> Http://www.mypots.com
> Home of "The Potters Portal"
> Over 1800 Pottery Links!
> Updated frequently
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
president,
> or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong,
> is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally
treasonable
> to the American public."
>
> U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) Theodore
Roosevelt.
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Louis Katz on sun 26 oct 03
Poly Ethylene Glycol or PEG is not antifreeze. Anti Freeze is not
"poly", just Ethylene Glycol. The PEG stays in the wood and does not
dry It replaces the water content that changes with humidity. PEG
soaked wood requires care in gluing and finishing. I am not an expert,
just regurgitating what I remeber of what I read. PEG comes in various
size molecules and I believe PEG 500 is the designation suggested for
wood soaking use.
Ethylene Glycol is much more poisonous than PEG. Ethylene Glycol has a
sweet taste and animals often get sick or die from lapping up
overflowed radiator fluid.
Propylene Glycol is often sold as "safe" antifreeze. Occasionally
people use it as a brushing agent in glazes. PEG has also been
suggested. Please do not fire this stuff inside I don't have a clue
what it will give off.
cc to the list
Take a 2 demitasse Turkish Coffee pot. Bring a pot full of spring water
to a boil. Add 2 big tablespoons of unDutched powdered cocoa ( not some
mix). Stir it in. Reheat until it foams. Add pich of alt and
1Tablespoon unsalted sweat cream butter. Don't drink before bed.
>>> If you really want to use these for Bats, soak them very thoroughtly
>>> in a solution of Poly Ethelyne Glycol...let them dry...have some
>>> Cabinet Shop Joint them and surface them then...then they should
>>> stay 'flat'... <<
>
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