Earl Brunner on thu 6 nov 03
I, on the other hand, have had poor results choking off the flow in my
downdraft by NOT staggering the shelves. If I want an even firing, I am
restricted to the top and the bottom for platters that span two shelves.
Firings were VERY uneven. Mine is a fairly small kiln and that may be a
contributing factor.
Seems like in this case (the original post) you could butt TWO of the
three shelves together and stagger around it (above and below) without
too much problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Hank Murrow
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:53 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Kiln Shelf Placement
Dear Ingeborg;
I have fired my updraft kiln for thirty years with the shelves often
not staggered. I find no problems that could be attributed to
circulation curtailment. In fact, I find no problem at all arising from
this configuration. I have been firing very large (30" x 30") wall
plaques flat across two 14 x 28 shelves lately. They look swell, and if
you like, I'll send a pic to you...shinos to die for.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
www.murrow.biz/hank
Ingeborg Foco on thu 6 nov 03
I'm doing a series of large platters and am anguishing over how to fire them
in my downdraft gas kiln.
I've always been told to keep a space between the shelves and try to alter
the levels between the shelves; not all at the same level. The idea was/is
to allow for better flame/heat circulation. Being a good German, I've
always followed the rule and fired that way :).
Since the platters will overlap to the other shelf anyhow, I am wondering if
that will adversely affect the platter, i.e. will it warp in the area where
it overhangs the air space or doesn't it really matter. I fire to cone 10
reduction.
I'm wondering how some of you fire large items and could I butt the shelves
together, sharing kiln posts, without any adverse results? My set up has 3
12x24 shelves...two are stacked side by side (lengthwise)and the third is in
the rear and sits across (sideways)
Thanks for your input.
Ingeborg in SW Florida anxiously awaiting the Saturday cold front which
will not make things cold but will reduce the humidity. A good day to fire
the dragon.
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
Hank Murrow on thu 6 nov 03
Dear Ingeborg;
I have fired my updraft kiln for thirty years with the shelves often
not staggered. I find no problems that could be attributed to
circulation curtailment. In fact, I find no problem at all arising from
this configuration. I have been firing very large (30" x 30") wall
plaques flat across two 14 x 28 shelves lately. They look swell, and if
you like, I'll send a pic to you...shinos to die for.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
www.murrow.biz/hank
On Nov 6, 2003, at 4:17 AM, Ingeborg Foco wrote:
> I'm doing a series of large platters and am anguishing over how to
> fire them
> in my downdraft gas kiln.
> I've always been told to keep a space between the shelves and try to
> alter
> the levels between the shelves; not all at the same level. The idea
> was/is
> to allow for better flame/heat circulation. Being a good German, I've
> always followed the rule and fired that way :).
>
> Since the platters will overlap to the other shelf anyhow, I am
> wondering if
> that will adversely affect the platter, i.e. will it warp in the area
> where
> it overhangs the air space or doesn't it really matter. I fire to
> cone 10
> reduction.
>
> I'm wondering how some of you fire large items and could I butt the
> shelves
> together, sharing kiln posts, without any adverse results? My set up
> has 3
> 12x24 shelves...two are stacked side by side (lengthwise)and the third
> is in
> the rear and sits across (sideways)
Craig Martell on thu 6 nov 03
Hello Ingeborg:
If the platters are too large for one 12 X 24, I guess you will have to use
the side by side shelves in the front of your kiln for the platters. My
kiln uses 12 X 24s that are stacked across the kiln width and go 4 deep. I
configure them as two stacks of 24 X 24s with the front two and the back
two pushed together with all the staggers for circulation in the center of
the kiln between the two cubes. I think you could have some areas with the
front shelves in your kiln mated for platters, without a stagger. When you
do this, you can jump the crack between the shelves with a shelf that will
accomodate the entire foot of the platter. With my larger plates and
platters, I use 14 X 14s and 16 X 16s to set the platters over the cracks
in the shelves. I wad these shelves with china clay, alumina wads to raise
them somewhat. Where you are not setting the platters, you can stagger the
shelves as usual.
You can also buy round mullite shelves that are actually full shelves for
electrics and they work fine for platters. Sometimes you can get them to
just fit the platter foot. There are many sizes available.
There are other ways to do this. This is just the way I do it and it has
worked just fine for me.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Cat Jarosz on thu 6 nov 03
In a message dated 11/6/2003 8:40:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ifoco@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
Since the platters will overlap to the other shelf anyhow, I am wondering if
that will adversely affect the platter, i.e. will it warp in the area where
it overhangs the air space or doesn't it really matter. I fire to cone 10
reduction.
I'm wondering how some of you fire large items and could I butt the shelves
together, sharing kiln posts, without any adverse results? My set up has 3
12x24 shelves...two are stacked side by side (lengthwise)and the third is in
the rear and sits across (sideways)
Dear Ingeborg,
Yes by all means you can share a post with 2 shelves .. The shelves I use
are 12x24 also and 3 posts are enough to support them.. I always x the spot
the post after every firing so I will know to turn the shelf the other
direction next firing... ergo where there were 2 posts on one side its now where the
one post was in the last firing. Does that make sense? Any how the side
the 2 posts would be is where I share the post with the 2nd shelf .. I use
those 1 1/2 or 2" wide square posts ...
Next to fire a lg platter across this great divide of 1/8th " max spacing
between shelves is a round shelf thats rated for cone 10 and yet isnt the 1"
thick ones you get with your electric kilns.. and yes I flip these over ( top
to bottom and vise verse every time) .. Why I do this is because I started
to get warping platters that had to be ground down to sit flat.
I did ok for yrs and yrs without the round kiln shelf and didnt get any
warpage but with the yrs and yrs of use the shelves did get a tad off and even
using fiber as a shim to level out the shelves didnt work to well... have
not had a problem since using the round shelves to span the crack, and I will
use fiber to shim the shelf if I find the round shelf wobbles around.
Also dont forget the pencil when unloading and the importance of xing
the side that was up ... I do not kiln wash these round shelves so they can be
flipped over without any troubles ... the rectangular shelves are however
kiln washed and they need the x where the posts were so you can flip the
shelves around ( front to back and back to front ) next time around so your posts
are in the spot where there were none in the last firing ...
Feel free to ask more ???? if you have any... I have tried to be as clear
and not forget any tiny detail as possible... I'll x fingers it was enough
but if I havent been clear enough feel free to ask away...
Cat in cloudy NC Mnts with Curly "JAWS" Jarosz the
Airedale from Hell pup at my feet acting like an angel... ha she just
evicerated the duck... quack quack no more... fluff and squeeky guts all over the
place... ewwwwwwwwwww
Rikki Gill on thu 6 nov 03
Why don't you use a broken kiln shelf, just big enough to hold the foot of
the piece, as a base for your platter, and put it in the kiln straddling two
shelves. I fire an Olsen with two stacks, I do this every firing since I
make a lot of platters. I usually place platters at least 1/2 way up, and I
get good reduction even if there is some blockage on the midline. And I
always fire with the shelves even. I always have. I tried to have them at
different heights, but that actually reduced the amount of ware I could
place in the kiln. I think I get good color. You can look at my pots
on my website.
Hope this helps.
Rikki Gill
rikigil@cwnet.com
www.rikkigillceramics.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ingeborg Foco"
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:17 AM
Subject: Kiln Shelf Placement
> I'm doing a series of large platters and am anguishing over how to fire
them
> in my downdraft gas kiln.
> I've always been told to keep a space between the shelves and try to alter
> the levels between the shelves; not all at the same level. The idea
was/is
> to allow for better flame/heat circulation. Being a good German, I've
> always followed the rule and fired that way :).
>
> Since the platters will overlap to the other shelf anyhow, I am wondering
if
> that will adversely affect the platter, i.e. will it warp in the area
where
> it overhangs the air space or doesn't it really matter. I fire to cone 10
> reduction.
>
> I'm wondering how some of you fire large items and could I butt the
shelves
> together, sharing kiln posts, without any adverse results? My set up has
3
> 12x24 shelves...two are stacked side by side (lengthwise)and the third is
in
> the rear and sits across (sideways)
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Ingeborg in SW Florida anxiously awaiting the Saturday cold front which
> will not make things cold but will reduce the humidity. A good day to
fire
> the dragon.
>
> Ingeborg
> the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
> P.O. Box 510
> 3058 Stringfellow Road
> St. James City, Florida 33956
>
> 239-283-2775
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Vince Pitelka on thu 6 nov 03
> I'm doing a series of large platters and am anguishing over how to fire
them
> in my downdraft gas kiln.
> I've always been told to keep a space between the shelves and try to alter
> the levels between the shelves; not all at the same level. The idea
was/is
> to allow for better flame/heat circulation. Being a good German, I've
> always followed the rule and fired that way :).
Ingeborg -
Simple solution - place the shelves on the same level, with no space
between, on common posts. Common posting is where the same posts support
two adjacent shelves. That will keep the shelves from shifting separately.
We always place our shelves this way, never with a space between them, never
staggered unless there is some other reason to do that. But I should say
that we do try to stagger the shelves in our salt, soda, and wood kilns in
order to encourage a more even flow through the wares. But not in the cone
10 reduction kiln. We get very even firings.
If the adjacent shelves are not perfectly level when you lay a straightedge
across them, you can place wads (50-50 silica and china clay, kneaded to
plastic clay consistency) on top of the posts beneath the shelves to
carefully level the surfaces. Then your platters will fire as level as can
be. I have fired platters as large as 25" in diameter on two adjacent 14x28
shelves with more shelves above them, and platters as large as 30" in
diameter on the uppermost shelves.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Ron Roy on fri 7 nov 03
Hi Ingeborg,
I have been thinking about this for a year now - I have a new kiln - and
the manufacturer recommends staggering the shelves.
I have decided to keep staggering the shelves - use some smaller shelves -
big enough to fit the feet of my platters and stilt them between shelves in
such a way so the smaller shelf will be level - taller stilts on one side -
maybe resting on the other shelf itself. No problems with gases circulating
and no worry about the platter warping because two shelves are not
perfectly level with each other.
That way there is no bridging two shelves with the platter - that is going
to be hard to do - hard to get both shelves the same level and both exactly
level with each other. That will be a major pain to do.
Did I describe that in an understandable way?
My shelves are 14" by 28" and Geil says to stack em side by side - when
viewed from outside the kiln you see two columns and you are looking at the
14" ends of the shelves.
So to do as I have described - you three stilt the shelves one stilt on the
outside and two on the inside. That leaves an area a little less than 28"
in the centre. I can then stilt a smaller shelf in that area and still have
good circulation throughout the kiln.
If you have a fax machine I can send a picture if that is not clear enough.
I just read Rikky's post - like that!
RR
>I'm doing a series of large platters and am anguishing over how to fire them
>in my downdraft gas kiln.
>I've always been told to keep a space between the shelves and try to alter
>the levels between the shelves; not all at the same level. The idea was/is
>to allow for better flame/heat circulation. Being a good German, I've
>always followed the rule and fired that way :).
>
>Since the platters will overlap to the other shelf anyhow, I am wondering if
>that will adversely affect the platter, i.e. will it warp in the area where
>it overhangs the air space or doesn't it really matter. I fire to cone 10
>reduction.
>
>I'm wondering how some of you fire large items and could I butt the shelves
>together, sharing kiln posts, without any adverse results? My set up has 3
>12x24 shelves...two are stacked side by side (lengthwise)and the third is in
>the rear and sits across (sideways)
>
>Thanks for your input.
>
>Ingeborg in SW Florida anxiously awaiting the Saturday cold front which
>will not make things cold but will reduce the humidity. A good day to fire
>the dragon.
>
>Ingeborg
>the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
>P.O. Box 510
>3058 Stringfellow Road
>St. James City, Florida 33956
>
>239-283-2775
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ingeborg Foco on fri 7 nov 03
"I'm doing a series of large platters and am anguishing over how to fire
them in my downdraft gas kiln."
What a group! I posted the remark to the group and in less than 24 hours I
received 6 replies thru clayart and 3 private ones. Thanks people. Now I
have to decide whose advice to take :)
Ingeborg, in SW Florida still waiting for the cold front to come.
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
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