Barbara Kobler on tue 2 dec 03
Hey Bob Bruch, your comment that people under 30 may be less biased than those who were trained as purists back in the 60s sounds like it would hold up as a truism, and in many cases, unfortunately it would, but I was not only trained in the 60s by a clay purist with a Masters from Alfred (in the 50s), but I am now closer to 70 than I am to 60. So I am steeped in purity of clay, mixing by hand, glaze chemistry, developing your own glazes and looking down your nose at anyone who didn’t throw. But I’ve grown up and now exchange technique and information with all sorts of disciplines in clay, sculpture, hobby ceramics, pastel artists, cold post fire enhancements, concrete etc.
Dear LSKeen:
I had no idea my comments would stimulate such anger. I am truly sorry to have caused such a disturbance in anyone. I’m not trying to be funny or cute nor do I mean to impune your efforts, judgement or results. Indeed, I applaud the tremendous time, sustained energy and effort it takes to produce a calendar. I’ve done it and it is a major committment and project. This is a free country. It is your project. You can set up whatever rules or regulations you desire. I am not, in any way, trying to convince you to do otherwise. That was not and is not my intent.
Unfortunately I may have been a little unclear in my post and apologize for any confusion it may have caused. This is what I meant to convey and evidentally didn’t do a good job of it: While I have no personal interest in submitting a piece of my own work for consideration because I don’t care to submit anything at this time, and I therefore have no vested interest in trying to get you to accept anything you do not want, I still care very much about wanting to know what you include or exclude--i.e., what you mean by "using molds".
To be honest it is still not clear what you mean since all hand builders use some type of preforms (molds) to support the clay while working on it. The clay is pressed, mushed, shoved so that it will mold itself and conform to the shape of the preform. Thus even a mold is not limited to plaster. Even cardboard, tarpaper, wood, concrete, styrofoam or plastic preforms are a type of mold. Therefore in trying to understand what "using molds” means to you, I put forth many interpretations for you to respond to so we out here could be sure that we are on the same page as you.
No more. No less. No judgement about you and your calendar was or is involved. Simply the struggle to understand the exactly what you mean across cyberspace where many of us have no shared personal experience.
Of course I believe in subject matter based shows. I've run them myself. But this "no molds" thing has different meanings for different people hence the excessive words and exhanges to find a shared understanding.
By the way have you ever head of or seen the works of Bill Daley. He's one of the great “old guys” ceramic teachers in the country. He’s now in his late 70s and is the one that ACC honored at SOFA this year with the Gold Medalist award. His works are some of the great clay works made in the past 30 years. Helen Drutt or Garth Clark galleries may have some photos of his work in their archives.
Bill is the one who opened the world of hand building to me. He taught me how to make and use preform support molds for unique, original hand built pots. Thereby giving me one of the greatest gifts of my creative life. He opened an entirely new world in clay enabling me to expand my horizons far beyond anything I would have imagined 15 years ago. It would be a shame if his work were dismissed because he used a wood or tarpaper or styrofoam mold.
Respectfully submitted,
Barbara Kobler http://www.claywoman.net
Snail Scott on tue 2 dec 03
At 05:43 AM 12/2/03 GMT, you wrote:
>...all hand builders use some type of preforms (molds) to support the clay
while working on it. The clay is pressed, mushed, shoved so that it will
mold itself and conform to the shape of the preform.
Um...all handbuilders? A lot of slab-building, to be sure,
uses drape molds and props of all sorts, but many do not,
and much coil-built work, in my experience, is entirely
self-supporting.
However, your point about a mold not being an object of
fixed identity is a good one. Anything that assists in
defining the form of the clay may be considered a 'mold'
to some degree or another.
-Snail
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on wed 3 dec 03
<<<<<<< Hey Bob Bruch, your=20
comment that people under 30 may be less biased than those who were trained=20=
as=20
purists back in the 60s sounds like it would hold up as a truism, and in man=
y=20
cases, unfortunately it would,=20
I was a self taught "purist," doing coil building and small slabs - making=20
intricate work slooooowly - originally went to art to school because I would=
see=20
lots of possibilities for design changes as I was working on a piece, but=20
then had to reinvent the wheel in order to carry out each minor design chang=
e. So=20
the technology that was recommended was mold making. I had the same initial=20
negative reaction to the idea of "molds" that Lisa and many others have ....=
.=20
but I had made myself a promise that if I was going back to school as an=20
"adult," then I was going to have to submit my ego to the process and do wha=
tever=20
was presented, and evaluate it later. After a few years of working with mol=
ds,=20
I have come full circle back to mostly doing coil built work. Now, I am=20
considering using an extruder based on the forms that I am making. So I am l=
ooking=20
at it the same way I looked at mold making, a tool to enable me to do work=20
faster and perhaps create some different forms than I might come up with usi=
ng my=20
more primitive construction methods. So, from that experience, I fail to see=
=20
all of the fuss about how work gets made, focusing more on the end product.=20
<<<<<<<=20
all hand builders use some type of preforms (molds) to support the clay whil=
e=20
working on it. The clay is pressed, mushed, shoved so that it will mold=20
itself and conform to the shape of the preform. Thus even a mold is not lim=
ited to=20
plaster. Even cardboard, tarpaper, wood, concrete, styrofoam or plastic=20
preforms are a type of mold. Therefore in trying to understand what "using m=
olds=E2=80=9D=20
means to you, I put forth many interpretations for you to respond to so we=20
out here could be sure that we are on the same page as you. ..............By=
the=20
way have you ever head of or seen the works of Bill Daley. He's one of the=20
great =E2=80=9Cold guys=E2=80=9D ceramic teachers in the country. He=E2=
=80=99s now in his late 70s=20
and is the one that ACC honored at SOFA this year with the Gold Medalist=20
award. His works are some of the great clay works made in the past 30 year=
s. =20
......... It would be a shame if his work were dismissed because he used a=20=
wood=20
or tarpaper or styrofoam mold.
Interesting analogy ... I took a workshop with Bill, he uses cardboard to=20
support his the construction of his large scale pieces - which he makes with=
out=20
using slip. Also took a workshop with Eddy Dominguez, who carves up Styrofo=
am=20
to make molds for his "aquariums" and landscapes. Worthwhile experiences to=20
see how other people working at a very high level accomplish their goals. I=20
would assume that most people doing large scale sculpture or vessles are usi=
ng=20
some types of supports - would any or all of these methods be considered=20
"moldmaking?"
Bob Bruch
Lee Love on wed 3 dec 03
I just got home from Tokyo. Shimaoka Sensei had the opening and reception
for his 40th anniversary exhibition at the Ginza Matsuya department store.
There were many fine mold made works there, including kokubin bottles,
kokusara (square mold-made dishes) and various boxes and little dishes.
The mold made work is the same price as the thrown work of a similar size..
Little rokkaku (six sided) ceramic boxes were given to each person invited
to the reception, each one carefully decoarted with rope-impressed inlay and
also red, yellow and green enamels and packed in a signed wooden box,
carefully tied with a fine cord. People certainly didn't refuse them
because they were "mold made."
I worked next to the craftman that made most of the mold made work
at the workshop for the three years I studied there. Working beside him,
I gained great respect for his mold made work.
If you go here:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/2003/11/24/
The third image down, you'll see a square bottle. It was inittally thrown
on the wheel, first the neck and top and then a cylinder for the bottom.
I then took a square wooden mold, bound it around the cylinder with cords
and pressed the　ｃｙlinder into the corners of the mold to create a square
form. I then added the top and neck, trimming the thrown top square.
To finish it, I used a cheeze cutter to texture the bottle, filled it with
inlay and scraped it. All done in the style of a traditional mold made
kokubin.
--
Lee in Mashiko
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful
servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has
forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
http://Mashiko.org
Web Log (click on recent date):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/calendar
dalecochoy on wed 3 dec 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
Subject: Re: Clarification of no molds
> I just got home from Tokyo. Shimaoka Sensei had the opening and
reception
> for his 40th anniversary exhibition at the Ginza Matsuya department store.
> There were many fine mold made works there, including
Lee,
Thanks for the post and pics.
I've been to the Ginza department stores ( sure nothing like ours!!). . The
Ginza department stores have a large bonsai section on the roofs, in fact
the Daimaru has a very prestigeous annual bonsai show/competition.
I was curious. In that show you attended, did you see any bonsai pots,
hand-built or otherwise entered.
BTW, IF you get a chance to get around in Tokyo again, ( I realize you don't
get much time off) I'd recommend the Takagi Bonsai Museum. He sponsors an
annual bonsai pottery competition. In fact, if you go to his webpages
www.bonsaimuseum.org/e/index.html you can see the winners from the last
eight years. It might interest you and some others on the list.
Regards,
Dale Cochoy
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