Michele D'Amico on thu 4 dec 03
I just fired my electric kiln to cone 6 using the Mastering ^6 firing
schedule. My Variegated Blue, Glossy base came out a semi matte beige and
my floating blue came out brown. Where has my blue gone? All my other
glazes were great. I dipped the pots for 3 seconds and the glazes seem
thick enough. Anyone have any ideas?
Michele D'Amico
damicom@cruzio.com
Ababi on fri 5 dec 03
It was written here sometime ago that floating blue must be fired fast.
Ababi
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Michele
D'Amico
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 11:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Blue glazes
I just fired my electric kiln to cone 6 using the Mastering ^6 firing
schedule. My Variegated Blue, Glossy base came out a semi matte beige
and
my floating blue came out brown. Where has my blue gone? All my other
glazes were great. I dipped the pots for 3 seconds and the glazes seem
thick enough. Anyone have any ideas?
Michele D'Amico
damicom@cruzio.com
Judy Musicant on fri 5 dec 03
Michele wrote, "I just fired my electric kiln to cone 6 using the =
Mastering ^6 firing
schedule. My Variegated Blue, Glossy base came out a semi matte beige =
and
my floating blue came out brown. my floating blue came out brown" =20
Floating blue hates slow cooling. Don't use the Mastering Cone 6 firing =
schedule for that one. Also, try firing it to cone 5, or 5 1/2, and try =
2 coats. That should solve your problem.
Judy Musicant
Earl Krueger on sat 6 dec 03
On Thursday, Dec 4, 2003, at 13:47 US/Pacific, Michele D'Amico wrote:
> My Variegated Blue, Glossy base came out a semi matte beige
On Saturday, Dec 6, 2003, at 07:20 US/Pacific, Ron Roy wrote:
> This is hard to imagine what could be wrong - is it our varigated blue
> from
> our book? you sure you put the copper and cobalt in?
Michele, Ron;
I had a whole kiln load of variegated blue come out a surprisingly nice
semi matte. My kiln can barely make cone 6 so it takes a long time to
get there. Soaked for 1/2 hour. Then looong, slow cool. Cone 6 tip
was just touching base. Also, I wondered why it was called blue since
it was more green with just a bluish cast. Where thin it was a quite
dark brown. Clay was an off white cone 6 stoneware.
A second firing of same batch on same clay but with faster cooling came
out bluer, but still green, and glossy.
The glaze was made up as a 2kg batch so I don't think there were
significant weighing errors.
I think my rutile may have quite a bit of iron in it.
Earl...
Bothell, WA, USA
Ron Roy on sat 6 dec 03
Hi Michele,
This is hard to imagine what could be wrong - is it our varigated blue from
our book? you sure you put the copper and cobalt in?
I think the the floating blue comes out brown if on too thin.
Better do some tests and see if you have all the right materials in those
glazes.
RR
>I just fired my electric kiln to cone 6 using the Mastering ^6 firing
>schedule. My Variegated Blue, Glossy base came out a semi matte beige and
>my floating blue came out brown. Where has my blue gone? All my other
>glazes were great. I dipped the pots for 3 seconds and the glazes seem
>thick enough. Anyone have any ideas?
>
>Michele D'Amico
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
John Hesselberth on sun 7 dec 03
On Sunday, December 7, 2003, at 02:34 AM, Earl Krueger wrote:
> I had a whole kiln load of variegated blue come out a surprisingly nice
> semi matte. My kiln can barely make cone 6 so it takes a long time to
> get there. Soaked for 1/2 hour. Then looong, slow cool. Cone 6 tip
> was just touching base. Also, I wondered why it was called blue since
> it was more green with just a bluish cast. Where thin it was a quite
> dark brown. Clay was an off white cone 6 stoneware.
Hi Earl,
Variegated blue has both copper and cobalt as colorants. It can go to
the green side when it is thinner. And yes your rutile can make a
difference in the final color. Try it a little thicker if you want it
more blue. Or increase the cobalt a little--there are occasional
reports of 'weak' cobalt in our supply chain--you may have some of that.
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
william schran on sun 7 dec 03
Earl wrote, regarding his variegated:>A second firing of same batch
on same clay but with faster cooling came out bluer, but still green,
and glossy.<
I think you've answered the green vs. blue question, as mentioned
several times previously about "floating blue/hare's fur blue/etc."
these type glazes result in more blue colors when fired somewhat
lower, cone 5, and cooled faster.
Bill
Carole Fox on mon 8 dec 03
Ababi-
I fire fairly slowly and fire down my floating blue with no problem. Why do
you say this and do others share this opinion?
- Carole
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ababi"
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: Blue glazes
> It was written here sometime ago that floating blue must be fired fast.
>
> Ababi
Ron Roy on tue 9 dec 03
Hi Earl,
Thanks for this - I see - looking at the picture in our book - that there
is green where the glaze is thinner. I think I glazed that pot - I adjusted
the glaze using the dry finger technique. Maybe try it a little thicker????
John has that pot maybe - we gave some of them to our proof readers -
anyway I'm sending this to John as well - we need to know what clay it is
on in the book.
RR
>Michele, Ron;
>I had a whole kiln load of variegated blue come out a surprisingly nice
>semi matte. My kiln can barely make cone 6 so it takes a long time to
>get there. Soaked for 1/2 hour. Then looong, slow cool. Cone 6 tip
>was just touching base. Also, I wondered why it was called blue since
>it was more green with just a bluish cast. Where thin it was a quite
>dark brown. Clay was an off white cone 6 stoneware.
>
>A second firing of same batch on same clay but with faster cooling came
>out bluer, but still green, and glossy.
>
>The glaze was made up as a 2kg batch so I don't think there were
>significant weighing errors.
>
>I think my rutile may have quite a bit of iron in it.
>
>Earl...
>Bothell, WA, USA
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Earl Krueger on tue 9 dec 03
On Monday, Dec 8, 2003, at 21:40 US/Pacific, Ron Roy wrote:
> Maybe try it a little thicker????
Ron, I noticed that where the glaze was thicker with more blue/green
developed the glaze was also moving. Thicker might cause it to flow
off the pot. I'm wondering if this isn't because it takes my kiln (2
1/2 in brick old elements) a long time to get to cone 6 which gives the
glaze more time in the molten state.
The load I'm planning on firing this weekend I think I'll use the same
glaze batch but go thicker and drop back to cone 5. Curious to see if
the color will be bluer.
Earl...
Bothell, WA, USA
Ababi on tue 9 dec 03
HI
I say it as a result of
A) Letters sent by clayarters about 6-8 months ago.
B) My experience with similar glazes:
I write two or three here and than will go on. After all now when my
kiln is out of use I can apply "glaze" only into the computer.
I will analyze Chappell's
I will use the newest analysis from digitalfire.com
I want you to see the glazes this way: If you understand what the
numbers are fine. If not, compare the numbers.
FLOATING BLUE.CHAPPELL
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Cone 6 1222 deg.C. -
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nepheline Syenite 47.30
Gerstley Borate 27.00
silica 20.30
EPK Kaolin 5.40
Red Iron Oxide 2.00
Cobalt Oxide 1.00
Rutile 4.00
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Seger Weight%
KNO 0.439 8.39%
CaO 0.456 7.12%
MgO 0.105 1.18%
Al2O3 0.502 14.23%
B2O3 0.364 7.06%
SiO2 3.459 57.84%
TiO2 0.188 4.18%
K2O 0.092 2.42%
Na2O 0.346 5.98%
Al:Si 6.89
Expan. 8.16
ST 339.40
This glaze is "high" in any oxide possible: B2O3 CaO KNO Si2O and Al2O3
My teacher called them "hard glazes" How can you call such a beautiful
glaze hard. I call them high alumina!
I say that in slow firing this glaze might be, probably will be ugly
brown.
http://lsv.ceramics.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0012&L=CLAYART&P=R77273&m=9
4264
...From a dear friend.
OPAL BLUE 5TO6 FROM CINDY STRNAD
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Cone 6 1222 deg.C. -
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ferro 3134 27.00
silica 25.00
EPK Kaolin 25.00
Cobalt Oxide 2.00
Rutile 4.00
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Seger Weight%
KNO 0.317 3.61%
CaO 0.683 7.04%
Al2O3 0.655 12.26%
B2O3 0.634 8.11%
SiO2 5.776 63.79%
TiO2 0.354 5.19%
Na2O 0.317 3.61%
Al:Si 8.82
Expan. 6.62
ST 341.45
Please compare the glazes.
Now because I have written it so many times before, pleas go to:
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/912566/
Read about my "combination":
It tells you how I overcame the mud of a similar "hard" glaze by
applying it over a "soft glaze" no it is not a porno site!
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/185990/
See the example of the speckle green.
Good night
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://ababi.active.co.il
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Carole Fox
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 7:06 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Blue glazes
Ababi-
I fire fairly slowly and fire down my floating blue with no problem. Why
do
you say this and do others share this opinion?
- Carole
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ababi"
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: Blue glazes
> It was written here sometime ago that floating blue must be fired
fast.
>
> Ababi
________________________________________________________________________
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Michele D'Amico on tue 9 dec 03
Ron,
Yes this is from your book. I did a 100 gram test first and it was lovely
then I mixed a 10000 gram batch and fired it with the fire schedule in
your book. I've fired it twice with the same results. I am usually pretty
careful about mixing glazes ao it think I mixed it OK. Do you think it's
cooling too slow? I can see hints of blue but the surface is
overwhelmingly rutile beige and semi-matte. I'll add some more cobalt and
try a fast fire and cool.
Michele
damicom@cruzio.com
Ron Roy on sat 13 dec 03
Hi Michele,
I've lost track of where we are with this - better tell me if there is
something you want me to comment on.
If you are cooling slower than we recommend it could be that - John is the
best one to comment on cone 6 glazes as I fire higher - just send anything
to me and I will send it to John.
RR
>Ron,
>Yes this is from your book. I did a 100 gram test first and it was lovely
>then I mixed a 10000 gram batch and fired it with the fire schedule in
>your book. I've fired it twice with the same results. I am usually pretty
>careful about mixing glazes ao it think I mixed it OK. Do you think it's
>cooling too slow? I can see hints of blue but the surface is
>overwhelmingly rutile beige and semi-matte. I'll add some more cobalt and
>try a fast fire and cool.
>Michele
>damicom@cruzio.com
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Earl Krueger on thu 18 dec 03
Current summary of my work with
MC6G Variegated Blue;
Same batch of glaze. Off white ^6 stoneware body.
Multiple pots in each test.
^6 1/2 hour soak, long slow cool
Large ^6 tip almost touching clay support pattie.
^5 flat on pattie.
green with hints of blue,
dark brown where thin
some flow where thick
semi matte
^6 1/2 hour soak, kiln turned off, natural cooling
Large ^6 tip touching clay support pattie.
^5 flat on pattie
slightly bluer than previous.
dark brown where thin
some flow where thick
glossy
^5 1/2 hour soak, kiln turned off, natural cooling
Large ^6 slightly bent.
^5 tip laying on ^4 about 1/4 in.
^4 flat on pattie
Thicker application than before.
No discernible difference in color or gloss from previous test.
dark brown only on rim and 1/4 - 3/8 in. down sides.
Rolls of glaze around bottom of pot.
Some flow of glaze onto shelf.
Thoughts for next test.
Reformulate glaze to contain less frit and more
alumina to reduce flow.
Thinner application to bottom 1/3 of pot.
Earl...
Bothell, WA, USA
John Hesselberth on fri 19 dec 03
Hi Earl,
Interesting results--and I assume none of the samples yet approaches
the level of blue that we show in the book. I would strongly recommend
you add a test with a new batch of cobalt carbonate from another
supplier. Is yours lavender? Some would even call it bright lavender.
It should be. There have been several potters over the last several
months who have reported getting less pure cobalt carbonate from their
suppliers and it was usually not the lavender color we are all used to.
Tell you what. Send me your snail mail address off-list and I'll send
you 15 grams--enough for a 1000 gram batch--of stuff I know is good.
Regards,
John
On Friday, December 19, 2003, at 01:25 AM, Earl Krueger wrote:
> Current summary of my work with
> MC6G Variegated Blue;
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
John Rodgers on tue 23 dec 03
I do a lot of Floating Blue, and it comes out nice and blue every time.
If thin it will absolutely go brown. Also, this glaze likes a large
shelf cone 5 bent horizontal.Anything more and it goes green and at cone
6 it really gets green.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
william schran wrote:
> Earl wrote, regarding his variegated:>A second firing of same batch
> on same clay but with faster cooling came out bluer, but still green,
> and glossy.<
>
> I think you've answered the green vs. blue question, as mentioned
> several times previously about "floating blue/hare's fur blue/etc."
> these type glazes result in more blue colors when fired somewhat
> lower, cone 5, and cooled faster.
> Bill
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
John Rodgers on wed 15 nov 06
Lisa, welcom aboard!!
To answer some of your questions ........... my point of view only.... I
have responded below each item on your question list.
John Rodgers
Lisa E wrote:
> A newbie here so be patient. I love blue's, greens and some natural
> colours
> (browns, beige's etc.) so I am definitely one of "those" people at craft
> fairs that are drawn to your blue pieces. I have been buying my own
> glazes,
> which is getting expensive as I have just stepped up production (I
> acquired
> a wheel and kiln recently), so I will be embarking on making my own
> glazes
> in a couple of weeks. (I should have my Mastering Cone 6 Glazes book
> in the
> mail this week, I'm so excited).
>
> I will be making a blue glaze and a complementary green glaze to
> start. (Did
> I just hear some groans?? lol)
Floating Blue is actually a base glaze with some metallic colorants
added. The base can become Floating Blue or Floating Green. Both look
very nice.
>
> Q1 - There are so many blues out there so what is all the excitement
> about floating
> blue?
This is a particularly nice blue that is very attractive to many people.
It has sufficient red iron oxide and rutile in it as to break brown
over edges and and carving work, which makes a very nice contrast to
the blue. This blue and brown combination is very pleasing to the eye,
if the form that carries it is well designed and executed.
>
> Q2 - Why is it called "floating"? (I warned you, I'm a newbie)
I haven't got a clue!! But it works nice. Prol'ly related to the rutile
in it. This glaze might better be described as a "variegated glaze. It
has lots of little variations in color in the blue range.
>
> Q3 - Why is it so fickle? If it is so fickle, why would one bother
> to stress over it when there are so many choices or is it the be all
> and end
> all in the blue glaze world?
"Fickle" is dependent on one's success with it. I have used it a long
time. I have worked out methods with it that work for me. It is no
longer the fickle demon now that it was when I started out with it. Know
the parameters of a glaze, and it likely will perform well for you. Fail
to understand it, and it's "fickle" because one will not have control
for consistency.
>
> *Q4 - I think my main and most important question overall is why don't
> the
> glaze "recipes" measure everything out like a food recipe? I know
> they do
> in a sense but never x-amount of this and x-amount of that in 4
> gallons of
> water.*
Glaze components in a recipe are usually expressed as a percentage of
the whole mix, dry. Colorants - usually metallic oxides - are taken as a
percentage of the whole mix and added in. Water is added later. The
amount of water is dependent on what density one wants for a glaze. I
mix Floating Blue with enough water to have a glaze density of 1.3. One
thing you will learn when mixing your own glazes ...... get your numbers
down. When you control the numbers, you control the glaze. For FB, I
make 16 gallons at a time. I know exactly how many grams( in this case
pounds) of each component to use - including volume of water - to make
my 16 gallons of glaze up for a density of 1.3, I know from experience
that dipping and holding a pot submerged for 15 seconds will give me
the glaze finish I want when fired to a cool Cone 5 - shelf witness
cone. Hotter than that, and for me it goes snot green and runs all over.
So, develop your number sets for each new glaze you try. It will take
some time, but most of us have learned to take notes on our processes.
>
> Q5 - Can a bucket of glaze freeze, even the top layer of water, or is
> that
> bad like when clay freezes?
I don't know that freezing hurts clay or glaze. I have worked frozen
clay a lot of times. If frozen, I just wege it good, and it's good to
go. There are onbly physical changes that take place as a result of the
water in the clay freezing, but there aren't any chemical changes, so
re-wedging it makes it work. Could run it through a pugmi8ll if you have
one. As for frozen glazes, neer had a problem there either. Don't know
why I should. Glazes are solid materials suspended in water. Freezing
should not hurt. There are some glazes that have solubles in them that
might be affected by freezing, but I have never encountered the problem.
>
> Any tips on getting started with making my own glazes would be greatly
> appreciated.
Get the book - Mastering Cone 6 Glazes (affectionately known as MC6G)
and the MC6G Software.
Good luck,
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Lisa E on wed 15 nov 06
A newbie here so be patient. I love blue's, greens and some natural colours
(browns, beige's etc.) so I am definitely one of "those" people at craft
fairs that are drawn to your blue pieces. I have been buying my own glazes,
which is getting expensive as I have just stepped up production (I acquired
a wheel and kiln recently), so I will be embarking on making my own glazes
in a couple of weeks. (I should have my Mastering Cone 6 Glazes book in the
mail this week, I'm so excited).
I will be making a blue glaze and a complementary green glaze to start. (Did
I just hear some groans?? lol)
Q1 - There are so many blues out there so what is all the excitement
about floating
blue?
Q2 - Why is it called "floating"? (I warned you, I'm a newbie)
Q3 - Why is it so fickle? If it is so fickle, why would one bother
to stress over it when there are so many choices or is it the be all and end
all in the blue glaze world?
*Q4 - I think my main and most important question overall is why don't the
glaze "recipes" measure everything out like a food recipe? I know they do
in a sense but never x-amount of this and x-amount of that in 4 gallons of
water.*
Q5 - Can a bucket of glaze freeze, even the top layer of water, or is that
bad like when clay freezes?
Any tips on getting started with making my own glazes would be greatly
appreciated.
Regards,
--
Lisa E
Squamish, BC
Snail Scott on fri 17 nov 06
At 11:29 AM 11/15/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>Q1 - There are so many blues out there so what is all the excitement
>about floating
>blue? >Q2 - Why is it called "floating"? (I warned you, I'm a newbie)
It's not a smooth, overall color. It's streaky
and slightly multicolored due to its chemistry
and the way those minerals interact. Looks
almost still liquid, and opalescent (not
literally, just in the mixture of colors.)
>Q3 - Why is it so fickle? If it is so fickle, why would one bother
>to stress over it when there are so many choices or is it the be all and end
>all in the blue glaze world?
Because the same material combo that causes
the finickyness also cause the streaky
multicolor effect - can't get one without
the other.
>
>*Q4 - I think my main and most important question overall is why don't the
>glaze "recipes" measure everything out like a food recipe? I know they do
>in a sense but never x-amount of this and x-amount of that in 4 gallons of
>water.*
Because you might want to mix it to
different batch sizes, so it's listed
in percentages: easy to multiply to
any size. This also makes it easy to
modify usng percent variations, and
to compare it with other similar
recipes side-by-side.
Most people figure out their preferred
amount of water by testing empirically.
A common starting point for large batches
is 10,000 grams of dry to a five-gallon
bucket, but note: that's not five
gallons of water, just the bucket size
with room to stir. Too thick? add water.
Too thin? let it settle and dip off the
excess. If you want precision, you can
measure as you add, and record the
result for next time.
>Q5 - Can a bucket of glaze freeze, even the top layer of water, or is that
>bad like when clay freezes?
Won't hurt it a bit. It doesn't, strictly
speaking, even hurt clay. It's just that
ice is bigger than water, so when clay
freezes, the ice crystals sort of shove
the clay particles apart to make room.
Then when the ice melts into water again,
it leaves air pockets behind, all through
the clay. Re-wedging or re-pugging is
usually enough to force that air back out.
Annoying, but not ruined. As you can see,
this is not a phenomenon that would apply
to a suspended liquid mixture like glaze.
-Snail
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