Judy Musicant on fri 5 dec 03
John, Thanks for your words of caution:
" Glazes that are matte after having
been cooled rapidly are almost certainly in the category of 'unmelted
mattes'. That is they are matte because they were not fully melted
during firing and get their 'matteness' from unmelted tiny particles.
In my testing these glazes are usually significantly less durable than
matte glazes that have been formulated to be fully melted during firing
and then cooled slowly, allowing crystallization to occur during
cooling."
In the case of my glazes, I've done the lemon juice test, the freeze =
boil test, as well as having had them tested in the Alfred lab, all with =
good results. I've also been using bowls with the Val Cushing glaze for =
years, and I don't see any wear. (For those interested, the glaze is on =
John Hesselberth's website). The matte glaze I use (Amy's blue violet, =
also on John's website) was the same in both the fast cool and the slow =
cool. Since it has significant barium, I never use it on the inside of =
functional pieces, even though the Alfred test showed a barium leach =
that was within the acceptable range. As has been said many times, we =
must test glazes we use, especially for functional pieces, and test them =
under our own specific firing conditions.
Judy Musicant
Maurice Weitman on sat 28 feb 04
At 15:31 -0800 on 2/28/04, Hank Murrow wrote:
>Yes, I would, and that is why I am considering a 2927-10 Bailey. 1" of
>fiber insulation and 2.5" of softbrick. I wish it were 2" of fiber, but
>1" from Bailey is better than others provide.
I just ordered the Bailey 2927-10, Hank, chiefly for that reason, so
I guess that I, too, would, and did, pay quite a bit more for extra
insulation.
Once I decided that insulation was very important to me, I had
considered the Axner which has 3" brick and an inch of fiber, but the
fact that it was a one-piece kiln made me nervous that it might
really limit my future ability to get it through doorways, etc. The
fact that the Axner was made by Olympic (albeit with significant
Axner improvements - better elements, ITC coatings, etc.) also gave
me pause.
Many praised the L&L kiln's element holders, but L&L did not offer
anything beyond the 3" brick, and by the time I added all the options
that Bailey (and Axner) had as standard (heavy duty elements, floor
element, for instance), the price was more than $600 higher, and it
still only had 3" brick.
I first thought I'd get a used kiln, then I shifted to a new Skutt or
L&L 7 cubic foot model, which would have cost nearly half what the 10
cubic foot Bailey (or Axner) would cost. Since I'm starting a studio
from scratch and spending more than I have, cost is a major
consideration for me. But I also needed to consider long-term costs
(energy in California is a tad on the pricey side), and the other
advantages of well-insulated kilns.
Earl, I, too, wrote (off-list, but I will reproduce it below) a note
to Arnold on Thursday, outlining my criteria for kiln selection.
(And names did not enter into my decision.)
Thanks to all you clayarters for making my decision at least tolerably painful.
Regards,
Maurice
To: "Arnold Howard"
From: Maurice Weitman
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] kiln naming (Dragon, Iguana, Caldera, etc.)
>Do you prefer kilns with real names, or kilns with model numbers? Or does it
>matter?
Hello, Arnold,
For the record, although I love names with some resonance and
image-provoking power, I prefer names that clearly identify a model
and its attributes. I recognize that this can get out of hand, but I
prefer 2927-10 to Caldera.
I feel that I and other clayart readers owe you a great deal, and I
would love to reward your generosity with a kiln order, but as you'll
see, it might not be in the cards now.
So in the hope that this might be helpful to you some day, here are
the items on my list of requirements for a kiln for my functional
studio pottery, roughly in priority order, high to low:
- Very energy efficient, which usually comes down to highly
insulated, 3.5" or more.
- Long lasting elements (of course, this should have reasonable
cost/benefit relationship)
- Bartlett controller (sorry, but I need the compatibility with
their KISS system).
- Sectional for mobility, although I do recognize the tradeoff.
- Optional floor element.
- Kilnsitter, at least as an option with a controller.
- Decent cooling for electronics.
- Easy use of S-type thermocouples.
- Sturdy hinge and locking mechanism for the lid, although
spring-loaded is not necessary.
- Optional use of ITC coatings for elements and bricks, or at least
tolerance of its use wrt warranty.
- L&L's element holders make lots of sense to me, although I did not
choose their kiln.
- Heavy duty relays (mercury?).
- Stand as low as possible
- Side-mounted vent port with easy tuning and wall-mounted fan that
can be shared with other kilns.
I hope that is helpful to you, and thank you for your generosity on the list.
Best regards,
Maurice
Craig Dunn Clark on sat 28 feb 04
Earl, yes!!!yes!!!and yes again. Not just because I'd be recovering the
extra bucks I spent on the kiln either. I'm a tree hugger at heart and do
what I am able to conserve.
Craig Dunn Clark
619 EAST 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank Murrow"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Kiln Insulation
> Dear Earl;
>
> Yes, I would, and that is why I am considering a 2927-10 Bailey. 1" of
> fiber insulation and 2.5" of softbrick. I wish it were 2" of fiber, but
> 1" from Bailey is better than others provide.
>
> Hank in Eugene
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Earl Krueger wrote:
> >
> > An excellent name for a kiln series would be "More Insulation"!
> >
> > Question for Potters:
> > Would you be willing to pay more for a kiln that was more
> > efficient if it could be shown that you would recover the
> > additional expense in 100 or 200 firings?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Krueger on sat 28 feb 04
On Thursday, Feb 26, 2004, at 05:49 US/Pacific, Arnold Howard wrote:
> Do you prefer kilns with real names, or kilns with model numbers? Or
> does it
> matter?
Arnold,
An excellent name for a kiln series would be "More Insulation"!
Question for Potters:
Would you be willing to pay more for a kiln that was more
efficient if it could be shown that you would recover the
additional expense in 100 or 200 firings?
Earl K...
Bothell, WA, USA
Who thinks commercial electric kilns are still in the dark ages
when it comes to insulation value.
Hank Murrow on sat 28 feb 04
Dear Earl;
Yes, I would, and that is why I am considering a 2927-10 Bailey. 1" of
fiber insulation and 2.5" of softbrick. I wish it were 2" of fiber, but
1" from Bailey is better than others provide.
Hank in Eugene
On Feb 28, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Earl Krueger wrote:
>
> An excellent name for a kiln series would be "More Insulation"!
>
> Question for Potters:
> Would you be willing to pay more for a kiln that was more
> efficient if it could be shown that you would recover the
> additional expense in 100 or 200 firings?
wayneinkeywest on sat 28 feb 04
Earl:
I for one do not find the heat loss from my electric "pot toaster"
objectionable. Yeah, it singes the cat if she's too close when
it's wailing around cone 10, but c'mon, that's well over 2000
degrees (F), with a difference from ambient of over 2000 as
well. It takes the better part of 36 hours to cool down! I would
imagine that some radiational (sp?) loss is to be expected at
that temp..
BTW, it turns out that my " pot toaster" is over 15
years old, so unless the design has changed significantly in
that time....
Wayne Seidl
still trying to find a way to attach a saw blade to his electric
meter :>)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Krueger"
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:48 PM
Subject: Electric Kiln Insulation
> On Thursday, Feb 26, 2004, at 05:49 US/Pacific, Arnold Howard
wrote:
> > Do you prefer kilns with real names, or kilns with model
numbers? Or
> > does it
> > matter?
>
> Arnold,
>
> An excellent name for a kiln series would be "More Insulation"!
>
> Question for Potters:
> Would you be willing to pay more for a kiln that was more
> efficient if it could be shown that you would recover the
> additional expense in 100 or 200 firings?
>
> Earl K...
> Bothell, WA, USA
> Who thinks commercial electric kilns are still in the dark ages
> when it comes to insulation value.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________
__________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
LindaBlossom on sat 28 feb 04
This is one of my favorite areas to meddle in. Several years ago, I took
the stainless jacket off a Skutt 1227 and put two inches of fiber on it and
replaced the jacket. It was a little unnerving to get the jacket off and
see that all I really had was a loose stack of firebricks.
Recently, I bought my little test kiln used. It is a 2.5 cu ft Evenheat.
It had what looked like its original elements and switches. I didn't change
the elements...I took it outside on a nursery cart and took the lid off. I
laid the body of the kiln on the ground on its side and sprayed itc on the
bottom and then put an inch of fiber on it that I had dipped into itc on
both sides. Then I put it back on its stand, letting the stand compress the
fiber where it would.
Next, I put another layer of fiber where I could get between the frame of
the stand. I covered this with itc. I put the whole thing back, stand and
kiln, on the nursery cart and took off the jacket and switch box. I
sprayed the whole thing inside and out with itc, then laminated a layer of
fiber to the body and replaced the jacket and control box. The element
insulators were too short to clear the heat shield so off it came. The
jacket was a little too small so I used long pipe clamps to close it up.
I sprayed the lid and put two inches of fiber on it. When I fire it I have
another two inches of fiber wrapped in foil - one of my foilpacks- that I
put on top of the lid. The lid is not attached - I take if off when the kiln
is cooled. My last addition to this little kiln was the Paragon portable
controller so I can fire it on night rate. This kiln has no problem getting
to cone 8 - maintaining about 70 degrees Centigrade from 1150 to about 1230.
I use about 38 kw per firing lasting about 11 hours with a top hold and a
1050 hold. All in all, I have about $850 dollars in this kiln. When I
checked comparable, computer controlled, well insulated kilns of this size,
they were close to $1800. I hate to waste a kilowat, a dollar, or pay for
something I can do myself.
Linda
Ithaca, NY
> Yes, I would, and that is why I am considering a 2927-10 Bailey. 1" of
> fiber insulation and 2.5" of softbrick. I wish it were 2" of fiber, but
> 1" from Bailey is better than others provide.
>
> Hank in Eugene
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Earl Krueger wrote:
> >
> > An excellent name for a kiln series would be "More Insulation"!
> >
> > Question for Potters:
> > Would you be willing to pay more for a kiln that was more
> > efficient if it could be shown that you would recover the
> > additional expense in 100 or 200 firings?
>
William Sheppard on sun 29 feb 04
Instead of fiber insulation around my Knight kiln I have a metal heat
shield I hang around the outside walls from small brackets hooked on to the
kiln lid. This shield is removable when I have to unload the kiln.
The curtain is made from 12/1000" thick offset newspaper printing
plates hanging about 2 inches away from the kiln walls. This metal curtain
reflects ALL of the radiated heat right back into the walls of the kiln. I
can put my hand within an inch of the curtain and feel no heat.
I installed this heat shield as a safety device after I leaned my arm
against the hot kiln when trying to reach for something that had rolled
under the kiln. Only later did I see what a great job of retaining the
radiated heat around the kiln it was doing.
See there is always a different way to solve a problem.
William Sheppard
Owner/Artist of Pat Young Ceramic Arts
St. Petersburg, Florida
Studio celebrating its 50th Aniversary in 2004
David Hendley on sun 29 feb 04
Paragon kilns, to their credit, and partially because of discussions on
Clayart,
proudly introduced a kiln with extra insulation a few years ago.
It was not a sales success.
So, even though many say they would pay more money for more insulation,
it does not really happen in a big way.
Kind of like cars - everyone says value, safety, and economy are most
important
to them, and then they buy a $48,000 11mpg Cadillac SUV with a propensity
to roll over because it has leather seats, fancy wheels, and looks cool.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> Question for Potters:
> Would you be willing to pay more for a kiln that was more
> efficient if it could be shown that you would recover the
> additional expense in 100 or 200 firings?
Mayssan Shora Farra on mon 1 mar 04
Arnold Howard wrote:
>The Dragon front-loading kiln
>is popular, though. (It has 3" firebrick and 1" of block insulation.) But I
>think it is popular primarily because it is a front-loader.
>
>
Hello Arnold, All:
I am thinking about a new kiln and was wondering about how difficult it
would be to change the elements on the Dragon or not?.
I have changed the elements twice on my kiln and every time it looses mor
pieces of brick.
Thanks for any input
Arnold Howard on mon 1 mar 04
From: "David Hendley"
> Paragon kilns, to their credit, and partially because of discussions on
> Clayart,
> proudly introduced a kiln with extra insulation a few years ago.
> It was not a sales success.
> So, even though many say they would pay more money for more insulation,
> it does not really happen in a big way.
David is right. We added 1" of block insulation to a 12-sided kiln, but few
people ordered it, and we no longer carry it. The Dragon front-loading kiln
is popular, though. (It has 3" firebrick and 1" of block insulation.) But I
think it is popular primarily because it is a front-loader.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
arnoldhoward@att.net
Arnold Howard on tue 2 mar 04
Kiln manufacturers are starting to use heavier-gauge element wire in some
models to make the elements last longer. We sell very few Dragon elements.
Changing the element pins is probably the worst part about changing an
element. A front-loading kiln ordinarily uses a pin only in the element
corners. So you will need few pins.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
arnoldhoward@att.net
From: "Mayssan Shora Farra"
> I am thinking about a new kiln and was wondering about how difficult it
> would be to change the elements on the Dragon or not?.
> I have changed the elements twice on my kiln and every time it looses mor
> pieces of brick.
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