Shawn McGuire on sat 6 dec 03
Sorry to be a cynic, but if you refer to Laguna's catalog you will find that=
=20
there is no mention that any suspension agent would be necessary for mixing=20
your glazes. In fact the instructions lead you to believe that all you need=20=
to=20
do is add the correct amount of water to have a workable product, simply not=
=20
the case, they sink like a stone. You due mention that brushing medium is=20
necessary if that is your chosen method of application, but do you see any m=
ention=20
of suspension agents as a necessary additive, no.=20
Laguna's Mixing Instructions:
"The following instructions and batch measurement guidelines are intended=20
only as a general reference.Also,none of the information in this section app=
lies
to Laguna Raku glazes;refer to the raku glaze section for raku mixing=20
instructions.
1.General:Laguna =E2=80=99s dry (powder)glazes are formulated for spraying o=
r dipping=20
over bisque.To adapt these glazes for brushing,add brushing medium
to the dry glaze powder in amounts as indicated below.See prices in Raw=20
Materials Section.
2.Referring to the batch measurement table,measure water into a clean plasti=
c=20
bucket.
3.Screen or sieve the dry glaze slowly into the water while continuously=20
mixing.Scrape the sides and bottom of the bucket often and mix thoroughly.
4.Check viscosity with a hydrometer.The hydrometer reading should be=20
approximately 55 for dipping color glazes,46-47 for dipping clear glazes,60
for spraying and 60-65 for brushing.
5.Glazes should be screened through the appropriate mesh to achieve the=20
desired results.(Typically,80-100 mesh sieves.)
8.Glazes are usually best when they have been mixed and allowed to sit for a=
=20
period of 24 hours before being remixed and then applied.
Batch Measurement Guidelines
For each 1 lb.of dry glaze powder,use the following amounts of water:
Application Water Brushing Medium
Dipping 11 fl.oz.N/A
Spraying 8 fl.oz.N/A
Brushing 7 fl.oz.5.5 grams*(5.5g =3Dapprox.2 teaspoons)
*454 grams per pound"
-laguna catalog
Your Raku glazes are the even worse, you end up with a solid concrete like=20
mass on the bottom for your glaze bucket, you must seive and use immediatel=
y,=20
otherwise your glaze is settled and once again needs to be mixed. And in you=
r=20
catalog, under Raku Mixing Instructions I once again fail to see any mention=
of=20
the fact a suspension agent would be appropriate.
Laguna's Raku Glaze Mixing Instructions:
RAKU DRY GLAZES
The dry glazes in this section were developed especially for Raku firing.Due=
=20
to the many uncontrollable variables involved in Raku firing,the glaze
descriptions should be viewed as general in nature with results varying even=
=20
from one firing to the next.
Mixing Instructions
Establishing the correct water to dry material ratio in Raku glazes can be=20
challenging,but by utilizing a process called slaking,the challenge can be m=
et.
Slaking simply means mixing the glaze =E2=80=99s dry materials in a bucket w=
ith=20
enough water to allow all the dry particles to achieve maximum absorption.Fo=
low
these steps:slake your Raku glaze approximately 24 hours -long enough that=20
the glaze settles to the bottom of the bucket and the =E2=80=9Cunabsorbed wa=
ter =E2=80=9D
is clear,not cloudy.At this point,remove most of the clear water leaving
1
/4 =E2=80=9Dto
1
/2 =E2=80=9Don top of the glaze.Mix thoroughly and allow glaze to sit for an=
other
24 hours.
After the second 24 hour settling period,mix the glaze thoroughly to a=20
consistency a little thicker than your final use consistency.To achieve this=
desired
consistency,you may need to add a small amount of water but always stir the=20
mix thoroughly prior to adding any water (see =E2=80=9Cthixotropy =E2=80=9Db=
elow).
Strain the mix through a 30 to 40 mesh sieve into another bucket,then strain=
=20
again back into the original bucket.You should be able to feel the glaze
thin out as you mix it because of the thixotropic characteristics of the=20
gerstley borate included in most Raku glazes.Thixotropy is =E2=80=9Cthe prop=
erty exhibited
by certain gels of becoming liquid when stirred or shaken =E2=80=9D(Webster)=
.This=20
makes it important to always stir Raku glazes thoroughly before
considering thinning with water.It is not unusual for a Raku glaze to become=
=20
slightly lumpy even after being strained and mixed.Some ceramists
prefer that their Raku glazes be thicker than other types of glazes.We=20
recommend running several tests to determine your individual consistency
preference.
Yet you say in your own words "The reason Laguna Dry Glazes have no=20
suspension agents added is because it takes different types and amounts of s=
uspending=20
agents depending on if your spraying, dipping or brushing" Well clue us in=20
man!!! Isn't ceramics enough of a game of trial and error, should we somehow=
use=20
our sixth sense to know that these glazes might need additives to make them=20
suit our needs?? If you know that it takes different types and amounts of=20
suspention agents to make these dry glazes better, why not publish a mixing=20=
guide=20
to help the consumer??=20
A company like Amaco puts additives like gum into their dry glazes, and=20
clearly publishes that fact in their catalog. Maybe this type of=20
straight-forward, honest, customer service is what makes Amaco's glazes supe=
rior?? Think about=20
it.
It's also funny to me that the corporate ears perk up at the mention of=20
something negative regarding their business practices, while the original po=
ster=20
of this sudject got no response to their problem with the product.=20
Over-and-Out,
~S~
Jon Pacini on mon 8 dec 03
Greetings All---------Shawn's comments being critical of the Laguna Catalog
are not without some merit.
Originally the Catalog listed the names of the products, the order code
number and the price ----that was it. It was 16 pages long. The Catalog is
now 224 pages long, much of it being descriptive dialog and charts on the
various products. It was never intended to be encyclopedic in volume, but it
is growing into that. It was never intended to cover every conceivable way
to use our products. That's what the hundreds of avaliable books on Ceramics
are for. It is however, intended to be a catalog of the products avaliable
from Laguna Clay Co.
We have tried to give general guidelines for the uses of our products in the
catalog. Potters are so diverse in the way they use our products that for
specific situations we have a staff of Technical Advisors who are avaliable
for consultations. They are only a phone call or an e-mail away. In the East
call 740-439-4355 in the West call 626-330-0631 or try our website,
lagunaclay.com, to get an e-mail address for the tech support you need.
As for Michele's difficulties, with the info she gave, I thought Shawn's
suggestion of an addition of bentonite adequately addressed the issue of
settling. At least it was a general guideline. As for the frothing, that
could be caused by something as simple as the speed the glaze is being mixed
at or as complex as a chemical reaction taking place between the water being
used and the glaze. It's not something that is overly common with glazes,
yet I hear of it from time to time. I would be tempted to brush the mixed
glaze through a course sieve, this will usually break up the bubbles. Just a
general guideline.
Moroccan Sand wet glazes are made here in production on a daily basis and in
questioning the Glaze Production Manager this morning, he hasn't been having
any frothing problems with them. In reviewing the MS glaze formulas, they
are so diverse in composition, I find it difficult to find a common thread
that would lead to this type of problem across the board. If you have the
batch numbers avaliable from the glaze bags, please forward them on to me. I
would like to investigate it further.
Best regards
Jon Pacini
Clay Manager
Laguna Clay Co
Michele D'Amico on tue 9 dec 03
I would like to add to your comment that I did contact Laguna clay three
times asking why I was having problems with the glaze and got a response
only after the third try!! I feel that a lot of my time, money and
psychic energy was wasted on the glaze which was inteded to simplify my
life. Funny but really not so funny that Laguna only chose to respond to
a negative comment but had no reply to my request for support.
Michele D'Amico
damicom@cruzio.com
Jon Pacini on wed 10 dec 03
Greetings All---
Hi Michele, --you wrote---
Subject: Re: Laguna Glazes
I would like to add to your comment that I did contact Laguna clay three
times asking why I was having problems with the glaze and got a response
only after the third try!! I feel that a lot of my time, money and
psychic energy was wasted on the glaze which was inteded to simplify my
life. Funny but really not so funny that Laguna only chose to respond to
a negative comment but had no reply to my request for support.
Michele D'Amico
Unfortunately Glaze Tech/support is not my particular field of expertise
and your attempts to contact Laguna regarding this matter did not come to my
attention. There is a directory on our website www.lagunaclay.com that
lists our personel, their duties and contact info. The person you should be
in touch with is Juan Aguilera. He's our GlazeTech/Support person and is
very knowledgeable in these matters. You can contact him at
juan@lagunaclay.com or 626-330-0631x213. He is on vacation this week, but I
will touch base with him on Monday regarding your problem.
It seemed to me that the advice Shawn gave you on the settling
difficulties you were having and Michael's advice on the bubbling problems,
to be satisfactory. I'm not sure what I could have added to it. Having been
a potter for 30 some years and involved in clay production for most of it, I
try to keep my comments reserved for topics I know something about. Believe
it or not, I don't think every subject needs my two bits. That's why I did
not respond personally to your post.
As for responding to the negative comment--- I've jumped in on a couple
of posts that were, I feel, unfounded. So much for reserving my comments,
but I'll take the heat for that. Shawn's comment was an unfounded, rather
cynical remark. He's certainly entitled to his opinion, but I'm not sure it
was necessary to solve Michele's difficulties. Which I think is why she
posted to Clayart. Why he decided to share it with us at that moment is a
mystery to me.
Information, such as that given by Michael Wendt on Michele's
difficulties, is very important to learning about the minerals we use. I
hope everybody picked up on it. Ceramics is a craft, a rather difficult
craft to master, and buying supplies whether it's raw minerals or prepared
clay and glazes, is never going to be the same as going to Wal-Mart and
buying a shirt. The minerals we use in ceramics are inherently variable,
despite our attempts to analyze them and neatly categorize them. It has been
my experience that nothing in ceramics works for everybody, every time,
exactly the same way. I'm not trying to make excuses, that's just been my
experience. And it can be very frustrating for a potter on the receiving end
on one of those occasions. I'm with you on this, I've been there.
If I come off as being RAH RAH Laguna it's not by design, first and
foremost I'm an old school potter who's been around a bit and worked in a
lot of different aspects of our craft. I am employed by Laguna, but my
involvement with Clayart is more of personal endeavor. My duties at Laguna
revolve primarily around clays and related minerals, I wish I got paid to
read Clayart all day. If I can, however, be of any help regarding Laguna
products please contact me jpacini@lagunaclay.com . If I can't help
personally, I'll try to point you in the direction of someone who can.
Best regards
Jon Pacini
Clay Manager
Laguna Clay Co
Jon Pacini on wed 10 dec 03
Greetings All------Hi Shawn----you wrote----
--Sorry to be a cynic, but if you refer to Laguna's catalog you will find
that
there is no mention that any suspension agent would be necessary for mixing
your glazes. In fact the instructions lead you to believe that all you need
to
do is add the correct amount of water to have a workable product, simply not
the case, they sink like a stone.-----clip
Well --- the "Brushing Media" is a blend of gums and suspending agents. It
may be an unfortunate name for the material, I'll pass that on to Marketing,
but the recommendations in the catalog are there for brushing ,dipping and
spraying. They are only general recommendations, and many of the MS glazes
do not need additions as they have quite a bit of clay and or had Gerstley
Borate. Since GB is not in use much anymore, frits have been substituted
into some of the glazes. For those particular glazes the "Brushing Media"
recommendations would need to be amended in the next catalog. That can be
said of the Raku glazes also.
A note here for those of you who have never used Gerstley Borate in a raku
or ^5 glaze, this was the major flux used in these types of glazes and when
mixed with water it was a powerful suspender.
The philosophy here at Laguna has always been to allow the end users of dry
glazes to determine what type of additions as far as gums and suspenders are
added to them. Just too many variations in the way Laguna glazes are used
for us to say "here, you're stuck with a brushing glaze, whether you wanted
it or not".
Shawn you stated that Amaco is a superior product because they have the gums
and suspenders added. My only comment to that is, if Amaco stocks dry glazes
for dipping, spraying and brushing, for once fire and for different
temperature bisque fires, if indeed they have stock catalog glazes avaliable
for every contingency, then more power to them.
As for your 'corporate ears' comment--- I'm about as unincorporated as a
potter gets. In posts over the last few days I've talked a bit about my
position regarding Michele's difficulties, Clayart has glaze gurus that are
more knowledgeable than I. But let me ask you this question-- what did your
remark regarding 'saving a buck' have to do with solving the questions asked
by Michele??
That's should be about all I have on this particular topic.---sorry Mel
Best regards
Jon Pacini
Clay Manager
Laguna Clay Co
Stephani Stephenson on wed 10 dec 03
I do use some Laguna glazes, as well as my own, and buy them in dry
form . I guess I treat them like raw materials.
I test them on my clay, at my temp, apply it very thin, thin , medium
thick, and thick.
I try them on greenware and bisque, on red clay and buff.
I understand that Laguna glazes bought in liquid form do have brushing
medium or other
medium added to them, I don't know specifics... however I like the lower
expense of the dry mix.
Also I prefer no added cmc or bentonite ,etc. so I can adapt glaze to my
own preferences.
I haven't noticed any foaming. In my own glazes I notice some frothiness
when I use Cornwall stone,
that is the only material I can think of with that effect.
This spring I tried some of Laguna's new glazes and they were all over
the place.. at first I thought
they were awful until I talked to Juan at NCECA and saw his boards,
realizing that whenever a
company tries to introduce glazes with special effects, there's going to
be a huge difference in
results depending on clay body and application. So I went back and tried
them again, expanded
my application techniques and found some nice uses for some of them.
Since I use a different
clay and fire to a different temp than found on the display boards, I
had to do some experimenting.
Soon after introducing new glazes, Laguna came out with a guide sheet on
their use, which they
now include with purchase, which helps immensely, but still does not
preclude the necessity for testing.
I agree some of them are not like silk in the bucket but I have found
some good ones to incorporate
into my palette, so the search was worth it. I also recommend letting
the glazes slake in water
for at least 48 hours. I have noticed a dramatic change in glazes
applied and fired right after
mixing, to those which have been allowed to sit in bucket a few days
prior to application and firing.
I have also used laguna majolica base in liquid form and found it to be
an excellent glaze. silky application
even coverage, and very durable dry unfired surface, so that application
of colors does not disturb the base coat
Stephani Stephenson
steph@alchemiestudio.com
Shawn McGuire on thu 11 dec 03
Hi Folks-
=A0 I reread this thread today, and thought maybe I came across like a big=20
jerk. I really didn't mean to make my comments sound like some sort of perso=
nal=20
attack on Jon. My apologies to him. I guess at the time I saw someone from=20
Laguna calling me a cynic because I thought that some decisions there might=20=
be made=20
on the basis of cost (really not that far-fetched of an idea, but anyway),=20
and something inside of me snapped,,,lol,,,the claws came out. Again Jon, so=
rry.=20
I really do love Laguna's clays, and you folks do produce quality product,=20
I'm no expert but I would think there is ALWAYS room for improvement. That's=
all=20
I have to say on this topic, I'll try to be less of a cynical, anti-corporat=
e=20
kind of a poster in the future, although for me that may be a bit of a=20
chore...lol...Happy Holidays.
over-and-out,
~S~
Charlene Harris on mon 28 nov 05
I'd like some info about Laguna glazes. I'm a handbuilder and have been
using Amaco, Coyote and Spectrun glazes which I generally apply w/a
brushing technique. I bisque to 04 and fire to cone 5 & 6, electric.
I have just purchased Laguna's Mint Coffee, Fractal Cream, Peacock, Ocean
Teal and Chocolate Mesa. I've been using Laguna clays B-Mix 5 & #60.
Thanks,
Charlene Harris
charris@provide.net
Jacqueline Miller on wed 30 nov 05
Charlene: I have used many laguna glazes because our art center tends to bu=
y
ready made glazes. They have all been fired at cone 5-6 electric. the only
one in your list that I know however is Peacock. It is a nice transparent
and should do well on your porcelain-like bmix. It used to run like crazy
and our center stopped supplying it for that reason. I think I heard it was
reformulated and that the running is not as much of a problem, but
definitely test it. It is nice for showing up texture. For darker clay
bodies have you tried coyote shino or gun metal green? I just tested them
last month and they were very nice. I will look forward to hearing about
your results with the others.
On 11/28/05, Charlene Harris wrote:
>
> I'd like some info about Laguna glazes. I'm a handbuilder and have been
> using Amaco, Coyote and Spectrun glazes which I generally apply w/a
> brushing technique. I bisque to 04 and fire to cone 5 & 6, electric.
>
> I have just purchased Laguna's Mint Coffee, Fractal Cream, Peacock, Ocean
> Teal and Chocolate Mesa. I've been using Laguna clays B-Mix 5 & #60.
>
> Thanks,
> Charlene Harris
> charris@provide.net
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
_____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
John Connolly on thu 1 dec 05
Laguna makes two other transparents that are worth looking at,especially for darker bodies. Hiacynth and Golden Green. I have used both and sometimes use layered for light/dark effect.
John Connolly
Jacqueline Miller wrote:
Charlene: I have used many laguna glazes because our art center tends to buy
ready made glazes. They have all been fired at cone 5-6 electric. the only
one in your list that I know however is Peacock. It is a nice transparent
and should do well on your porcelain-like bmix. It used to run like crazy
and our center stopped supplying it for that reason. I think I heard it was
reformulated and that the running is not as much of a problem, but
definitely test it. It is nice for showing up texture. For darker clay
bodies have you tried coyote shino or gun metal green? I just tested them
last month and they were very nice. I will look forward to hearing about
your results with the others.
On 11/28/05, Charlene Harris wrote:
>
> I'd like some info about Laguna glazes. I'm a handbuilder and have been
> using Amaco, Coyote and Spectrun glazes which I generally apply w/a
> brushing technique. I bisque to 04 and fire to cone 5 & 6, electric.
>
> I have just purchased Laguna's Mint Coffee, Fractal Cream, Peacock, Ocean
> Teal and Chocolate Mesa. I've been using Laguna clays B-Mix 5 & #60.
>
> Thanks,
> Charlene Harris
> charris@provide.net
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
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marianne kuiper milks on thu 1 dec 05
Jackie,
I indeed redid it all, but have not re-fired yet. A bit hesitant, since I also put it on "the tower" you saw the birthing of under yer very eyes.
I hope to achieve the brownish-reddish-orangy color, I'd die if it were beige. Hate beige. Although ..never mind.
I told you that I would order other Coyoge colors for my funny brush-ons, and I did. I have shino, chrome green, black, archie's base, blue-purple and saturated iron. Haven't fired yet due to the same soot problem. Hm.
Anyway: if you'd like some tyo try out, I will send you a meagher amount (stingy) to try & cross-match:-) .
I also have a few really wonderful ^6 recipes to mix up. If you don't have access to lithium flour, frit eggs and CaCo2 butter, I'll mix you some and send it, too. From my friend Ginny: soft blue (semi), a waxy white, a funny greenish (thanks, John H...) and a ..eh..'nother one. Let me know. I'm not going anywhere unless I hop on the plane, blow all my savings and go to Kyrgyzstan. I'll send you a card and come back on a rug. Some days I feel like Joan of Arc! How was the "fun" that wasn't? Marianne (of merely Honesdale)
Jacqueline Miller wrote:
Charlene: I have used many laguna glazes because our art center tends to buy
ready made glazes. They have all been fired at cone 5-6 electric. the only
one in your list that I know however is Peacock. It is a nice transparent
and should do well on your porcelain-like bmix. It used to run like crazy
and our center stopped supplying it for that reason. I think I heard it was
reformulated and that the running is not as much of a problem, but
definitely test it. It is nice for showing up texture. For darker clay
bodies have you tried coyote shino or gun metal green? I just tested them
last month and they were very nice. I will look forward to hearing about
your results with the others.
On 11/28/05, Charlene Harris wrote:
>
> I'd like some info about Laguna glazes. I'm a handbuilder and have been
> using Amaco, Coyote and Spectrun glazes which I generally apply w/a
> brushing technique. I bisque to 04 and fire to cone 5 & 6, electric.
>
> I have just purchased Laguna's Mint Coffee, Fractal Cream, Peacock, Ocean
> Teal and Chocolate Mesa. I've been using Laguna clays B-Mix 5 & #60.
>
> Thanks,
> Charlene Harris
> charris@provide.net
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Let fate take it's course directly to your email.
See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
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