Lucy Reuther on thu 18 dec 03
I checked several online dictionaries for the definitions below. I
really can not see a difference between Art & Craft. Both say creation
of beautiful things, work with the hands (painting & drawing as well as
ceramics & sculpture use hands?). So why to we let other people (or even
sometimes do it our selves) give the term craft a lower, derragatory
connotation.
I work as an art & craft director at a senior citizen retirement
community and I don't use the term craft in discribing my job or even
the room/studio because some how craft in the layman's mind has become
the same as the "junk" you see at bazaars made out of buttons, salvaged
items etc. (Some of which I must admit we do here). At any rate I
guess my point is that ceramic work is art, painting is art, weaving is
art etc. etc. Some is good, great or brillant and some is bad.
When people ask me about my art work I say I'm an artist and my
prefered medium is clay
LucyLee.
Definitions to provoke thought!
Art what we do
the creation of beautiful things: the creation of beautiful or
thought-provoking works for example, in painting, music, or writing
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic
principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary
significance
Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of
nature.
The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms,
movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of
beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or
plastic medium.
The study of these activities.
The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a
group.
High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty;
aesthetic value
Craft how we do it
an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill
making things by hand: a profession or activity such as weaving,
pottery, or wood carving, involving the skillful making of decorative or
practical objects by hand
Skill in doing or making something, as in the arts; proficiency.
Krista Peterson on fri 19 dec 03
Interesting how in the definition for craft it mentions skill and for art it does not. Reminds me of some of the thesis exhibitions I saw when I was in school. Some of them were purely conceptual with absolutely no craftsmanship whatoever. And these works are supposd to be somehow "better" than something made on a potters wheel. I never got the concepts anyways. Maybe the concept would be more obvious if there were some craftsmanship involved. Maybe the holier than thou attitude comes from an insecurity in skill level.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy Reuther
Sent: Dec 18, 2003 2:18 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: thoughts on art / craft
I checked several online dictionaries for the definitions below. I
really can not see a difference between Art & Craft. Both say creation
of beautiful things, work with the hands (painting & drawing as well as
ceramics & sculpture use hands?). So why to we let other people (or even
sometimes do it our selves) give the term craft a lower, derragatory
connotation.
I work as an art & craft director at a senior citizen retirement
community and I don't use the term craft in discribing my job or even
the room/studio because some how craft in the layman's mind has become
the same as the "junk" you see at bazaars made out of buttons, salvaged
items etc. (Some of which I must admit we do here). At any rate I
guess my point is that ceramic work is art, painting is art, weaving is
art etc. etc. Some is good, great or brillant and some is bad.
When people ask me about my art work I say I'm an artist and my
prefered medium is clay
LucyLee.
Definitions to provoke thought!
Art what we do
the creation of beautiful things: the creation of beautiful or
thought-provoking works for example, in painting, music, or writing
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic
principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary
significance
Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of
nature.
The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms,
movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of
beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or
plastic medium.
The study of these activities.
The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a
group.
High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty;
aesthetic value
Craft how we do it
an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill
making things by hand: a profession or activity such as weaving,
pottery, or wood carving, involving the skillful making of decorative or
practical objects by hand
Skill in doing or making something, as in the arts; proficiency.
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Kathy Forer on fri 19 dec 03
It's not necessarily "insecurity" though. Sometimes it's an active
disdain or contempt for skill, sometimes a simple avoidance and
sometimes even a whole 'nother skill set at work. My own sculpture
teacher, a master stone carver born in 1884, taught "you do be an
artisan first, then an artist." There are still many schools teaching
with attention to skilled artistry and knowing one's chops, but there
is often different listening or seeing involved as well.
On Dec 19, 2003, at 8:47 AM, Krista Peterson wrote:
> Maybe the holier than thou attitude comes from an insecurity in skill
> level.
iandol on sat 20 dec 03
Dear Lucy Reuther=20
Sounds as though you have a lot of fun.
Have you ever thought that objects produced as Craft are considered =
utilitarian while those made as Art always evoke a spectrum of strong =
emotions. One may be undervalue because of indifference, the other =
overvalued because of personal or communal engagement.
Enjoy the Festive Season with your clients.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Lee Love on sat 20 dec 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "iandol"
>Have you ever thought that objects produced as Craft are considered
utilitarian while those made
>as Art always evoke a spectrum of strong emotions.
You seem to agree with Lehman's Mr. Addicott. But we are enculturated
with this perspective. It is not at all universal. For the most part,
functional potter is accessible to a larger part of society because its
meaning comes out of its imbedded use within a culture. Functional work
has nothing to apologize for in its ability to transmit human understanding.
Rawson explains:
"One of the prime reasons why ceramics is such an interesting art is that
it fills the gap which now yawns between art and life as most people
understand their relationship. To explain the meaning of ceramics can be,
in a sense, to explore the historical roots of art as such. For whereas
other arts, painting and sculpture in particular, have come for centuries
now to resemble cut flowers, separated from the living plant which produced
them, in the case of ceramics we are everywhere brought face to face with
the root...
..Inert clay, from the earth, is made into something which is
directly and intimately related to active craft, to the processes of human
survival, and to social and spiritual factors in the life of man, all at
once. None of the elements is lost: all are reflected in some sort of
balance in each successful work. This then become what one may call
'transformation image', something undeniably material, wearing the evidence
of its material nature in its visible and tangible forms and attributes,
which at the same time contains so much projected into it from man's daily
life and experience at all levels that it can seem to him almost lie a
projection of his own bodily identity. "
Longer quote can be found here: (bottom of the page)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/2003/12/20/
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://Mashiko.org
Web Log (click on recent date):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/calendar
iandol on sun 21 dec 03
Dear Lee Love,=20
Excuse me if I seem ignorant, but what is an "Existential Back Step"
Or are Rawson and your Teacher telling us that we make our future from =
the past through exercising free will.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Lee Love on mon 22 dec 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "iandol"
>Excuse me if I seem ignorant, but what is an "Existential Back Step"
Existential as used here, is to break out of our conceptual
understanding and to know through direct experience.
>Or are Rawson and your Teacher telling us that we make our future from the
past through
>exercising free will.
I think this is part of it: Using our free will to break out of conceptual
understanding and to know through direct experience. The existentialist
tell us that there is no meaning in the world except for what we make. If
you are familiar with Akira Kurosawa, many of his films are about this
dilemma. About how modern man finds meaning in the world.
Really gotta walk Taiko.... She is crossing her back legs.!
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://Mashiko.org
Web Log (click on recent date):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/calendar
Lee Love on tue 23 dec 03
On 2003/12/23 13:05:08, iandol (iandol@tell.net.au) wrote:
> Rawson's message but your comment in which you used the term
"enculturated", a term I had
>not read before. From your context there may be several assumptions which
might apply leading to a
>variety of interpretations. So asked you for enlightenment. What do you
mean by "Enculturated", and
>please, no dictionary definitions.
We have been systematically taught in modern times that
emotional/intuitive expression is the purview of art and not of functional
objects.
> I do not have Rawson'
> "Ceramics" though I have borrowed it several times, so in my second post I
> was asking about your quotation from Rawson <<"By taking an existential
back-step, so to speak, we are enabled to witness in >humanity's pots a
virtually unlimited variety of concrete realizations which uncover and
authenticate his life and action
I think I answered this part in my previous post. To reiterate: the
backwards step he is speaking of is to drop
intellectualizing/conceptualizing of the object and to experience it
directly.
To say it in another way, I'll leave you with a Rawson quoting Ortega y
Gasset,
"'To create a concept you must leave the sensuous multiplicity
of reality behind.' Rawson goes on to say,
"A concept is in the mind, one element in the metal order among all the
other ordered elements of the world. Pots, however, have always been
bedded firmly into the world of their maker's reality, at all sorts of
different levels. They _are_ far more than they can ever appear to be as
concepts in our academic analyses of 'ceramic history'."
The Einstein quote below in my .sig applies too. :^)
--
Lee in Mashiko
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful
servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has
forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
http://Mashiko.us
Web Log (click on recent date):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/calendar
Lee Love on sat 27 dec 03
On 2003/12/25 12:09:15, iandol (iandol@tell.net.au) wrote:
..."
> However, I would like your
> evidence which shows that this is a universal construct. Perhaps you
> would list examples which contradict that hypothesis, which give the
> lie to exclusivity, from your own work and from works which originate
> in alternative cultures.
I'm sorry, I don't follow you. Maybe you have been reading Phil's
response to my post. (joking!) My argument was against the exclusivity of
art in the area of being able to evoke emotions. I said that this is
a learned attitude and is not inherent in the natures of the two types
works. Our notions about art separated from craft are relatively new so
most people in most times and places would not accept them.
Actually, functional craft has a better chance at evoking
universal meaning than personal art or art that strongly dependent on
current events for its meaning. It is because of the personal perspective
of this type of art. Think about folks 2000 years in the future, digging
up a Yi teabowl (see the teabowl here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mingei ) and also digging up DuChamp's Urinal
(see here: http://www.gadflyonline.com/10-08-01/duchamp.jpg ) Which do you
think they are going to be able to understand? I remember a science
fiction short story, where archeologists of the future dig up the remains of
our culture. Mostly, what they find are porcelain toilets. All the
metals and plastics have dissolved. They think that these toilets are
some type of altar or object of worship.
Yes, looking at the work is much better than talking about it. I
shared some quotes by Rawson that really clarify things for me. He does a
good job of putting it into words. Most artists and craftsmen speak better
with their hands than they do their works, IMHO.
Here is a fun website for a modern art perspective. Robert Hughes
calls him "Jack The Dripper." You too can make a masterpiece with your
mouse (I find the trackball works better): http://jacksonpollock.org
> I can see no profit in becoming mired in academic arguments or
> discussions concerning the "Formation of Concepts" or the
> "Intellectualisation of Reality". They are topics which may gain one
> "PQ Points" with one's lecturers while in college and lift a grade
> from distinction to high distinction, but where else is the benefit?
Me neither. That is the whole point of the phrase, Backward
existential step. From intellectualization to experience.
> By the way, for what purpose did Rawson write his text. Was it as
> lecture notes for Arts students? or as a primer for critics of arts
> and crafts? Is it a theoretical framework for ceramic designers. Or
> did he intend to educate the general public?
I don't know. You've read it, what do you think? Most of the
good stuff is in the beginning. It is where he lays out his philosophy and
lays the groundwork for the rest of the book. The last half might be
better for a college course on ceramic esthetics.
> A Happy New Year to you.
You too!
Lee In Mashiko
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