Sam Kelly on sat 27 dec 03
Any tricks out there to packing/holding the fibre to the wall of your kiln
while you get ready to put another layer on.
I am re-building a gas kiln and am ready to put the ceramic fibre in. The
kiln is 1mtr(3ft) square and the fibre comes in rolls of 7mtrs long and
610mm(.6mtr)wide.
I need to put 4 layers of fibre in before I put the final holding buttons
in, how do I stop the roof layers from falling in or the walls from falling
in as I try to insert the 4 layers I will have to cut and fit.
Thanks in advance
Sam & Diana
Australia
Mark & Linda on sat 27 dec 03
Two choices,1 feed the wires (nicrome) from the outside and stick all
layers on the wires add buttons to wires and tighten from the
outside. I have done this way before .# 2 cut all four layers and put
buttons with wires through all four layers at once and hang then
tighten wires from outside. Eitherway you will need help from others.
Good luck. mark at www.liscomhillpottery.com
>Any tricks out there to packing/holding the fibre to the wall of your kiln
>while you get ready to put another layer on.
>I am re-building a gas kiln and am ready to put the ceramic fibre in. The
>kiln is 1mtr(3ft) square and the fibre comes in rolls of 7mtrs long and
>610mm(.6mtr)wide.
>I need to put 4 layers of fibre in before I put the final holding buttons
>in, how do I stop the roof layers from falling in or the walls from falling
>in as I try to insert the 4 layers I will have to cut and fit.
>
>Thanks in advance
>Sam & Diana
>Australia
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Hank Murrow on sun 28 dec 03
Dear ceramic fiber designers;
I have followed the thread of lining kilns with fiber with interest,
yet hesitated to respond because it seemed that an existing kiln
partially lined with existing refractory was the main determinant.
However, since folks may be looking to this thread to inform themselves
about new kiln construction, I am stepping into the discussion.
I strongly recommend that would be fiber kiln designers consider using
the fiber blanket in 'folded module' construction. That is, the 8
pounds/cu.ft. fiber is folded in a frame with thin formers to yield an
eight fold module, the formers removed, and the module is then
compressed one third to a density of 12 pounds/cu.ft. The module is
taped to prevent unfolding, and is stacked into the supporting metal
shell of the kiln and onto specially fabricated stainless alloy anchors
which penetrate the module 2" from, and parallel to, the hot face. With
this construction, there will be little or no hot gas penetration to
the shell, and the anchors will hold the module securely behind the
cold face folds of the module. It is not the cheapest construction with
ceramic fiber, but it can be done DIY, and it offers the promise of
exceptional longevity. At the Canadian Clay Conference to be held March
20 at the Shadbolt Centre for the Arts, They will celebrate the 1000th
firing of the kiln I designed and built for them in 1985. 1000 fires at
an average fuel cost/firing of $22 USD. The kiln is a cubic meter in
size.
Cheers, and good designing,
Hank in Eugene
www.murrow.biz/hank
ps: Ivor's suggestion is wonderfully apropos to the project described,
BTW.
On Dec 28, 2003, at 3:29 PM, iandol wrote:
> Dear Sam Kelly,
>
> I suggest you get some fridge packing case brown corrugated card, cut
> to size and wedge it against the ceramic fibre with bamboo or similar
> thin timber stays.
>
> It can even be left in place and fired out. I used this idea with an
> internal flue. Worked extremely well.
Jon Brinley on sun 28 dec 03
Sam and Diana,
Whats wrong with using buttons to hold the inner layers =
as well. Maybe one or two around the edges or corners.
Just a thought
Jon in Midland
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Sam Kelly=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Kiln fibre packin tips?
Any tricks out there to packing/holding the fibre to the wall of your =
kiln
while you get ready to put another layer on.
I am re-building a gas kiln and am ready to put the ceramic fibre in. =
The
kiln is 1mtr(3ft) square and the fibre comes in rolls of 7mtrs long =
and
610mm(.6mtr)wide.
I need to put 4 layers of fibre in before I put the final holding =
buttons
in, how do I stop the roof layers from falling in or the walls from =
falling
in as I try to insert the 4 layers I will have to cut and fit.
Thanks in advance
Sam & Diana
Australia
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
steve harrison on sun 28 dec 03
Hi Sam,
If you can get an old copy of my "Handbook for Australian Potters" from
your local library where ever you are, it has a whole chapter on
ceramic fibre and I think that it will answer a lot of your questions.
It may even answer some questions that you haven't even thought of yet
like anchor spacings and cutting lengths etc.
Best wishes
Steve Harrison
Hot & Sticky Pty Ltd
5 Railway Pde
Balmoral Village
NSW 2571
Australia
http://ian.currie.to/sh/Steve_Harrisons_books.html
On Sunday, December 28, 2003, at 07:47 AM, Sam Kelly wrote:
> Any tricks out there to packing/holding the fibre to the wall of your
> kiln
> while you get ready to put another layer on.
> I am re-building a gas kiln and am ready to put the ceramic fibre in.
> The
> kiln is 1mtr(3ft) square and the fibre comes in rolls of 7mtrs long and
> 610mm(.6mtr)wide.
> I need to put 4 layers of fibre in before I put the final holding
> buttons
> in, how do I stop the roof layers from falling in or the walls from
> falling
> in as I try to insert the 4 layers I will have to cut and fit.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Sam & Diana
> Australia
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Steve Mills on sun 28 dec 03
Sam,
When I was building my last production Kiln I used cup-locks on Inconel
Steel pins that were secured to the casing, so I impaled the fibre on
the pins, holding it in place with discs of thick cardboard which burnt
away afterwards. If you could make removable pins out of (perhaps)
welding rod that you could withdraw OUTWARDS (maybe wedging them in
place), you could do as I did. Then perhaps at the finish you could tape
the wire attached to your buttons to the ends and pull them through to
the outside, removing the spikes and buttoning the fibre in one fell
swoop (or swell foop, as I prefer to say!).
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Sam Kelly writes
>Any tricks out there to packing/holding the fibre to the wall of your kil=
>n
>while you get ready to put another layer on.
>I am re-building a gas kiln and am ready to put the ceramic fibre in. The
>kiln is 1mtr(3ft) square and the fibre comes in rolls of 7mtrs long and
>610mm(.6mtr)wide.
>I need to put 4 layers of fibre in before I put the final holding buttons
>in, how do I stop the roof layers from falling in or the walls from falli=
>ng
>in as I try to insert the 4 layers I will have to cut and fit.
>
>Thanks in advance
>Sam & Diana
>Australia
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Sam Kelly on mon 29 dec 03
Thanks for the ideas, the cardboard ideas seem to be the best as long as
there is no damage to the fibre at a later date. I could have used buttons
on all layers but I didn't make enough, but a couple in strategic places
won't go astray.
The joining overlaps and shrinkage of new fibre as mentioned in a reply is
now a factor to consider.
Thanks, Sam & Diana
Sam Kelly on mon 29 dec 03
I can see what you are saying, however fibre blanket is all we have got
(96kg and 128kg hot face[1400 celcius]). Here is 4 pics of the kiln,
freshley lined with 1.2mm stainless steel
http://www.users.bigpond.com/sdkelly9/kiln.htm
Sam & Diana
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:49:58 -0800, Hank Murrow wrote:
>Dear ceramic fiber designers;
>
>I have followed the thread of lining kilns with fiber with interest,
>yet hesitated to respond because it seemed that an existing kiln
>partially lined with existing refractory was the main determinant.
>However, since folks may be looking to this thread to inform themselves
>about new kiln construction, I am stepping into the discussion.
>
>I strongly recommend that would be fiber kiln designers consider using
>the fiber blanket in 'folded module' construction. That is, the 8
>pounds/cu.ft. fiber is folded in a frame with thin formers to yield an
>eight fold module, the formers removed, and the module is then
>compressed one third to a density of 12 pounds/cu.ft. The module is
>taped to prevent unfolding, and is stacked into the supporting metal
>shell of the kiln and onto specially fabricated stainless alloy anchors
>which penetrate the module 2" from, and parallel to, the hot face. With
>this construction, there will be little or no hot gas penetration to
>the shell, and the anchors will hold the module securely behind the
>cold face folds of the module. It is not the cheapest construction with
>ceramic fiber, but it can be done DIY, and it offers the promise of
>exceptional longevity. At the Canadian Clay Conference to be held March
>20 at the Shadbolt Centre for the Arts, They will celebrate the 1000th
>firing of the kiln I designed and built for them in 1985. 1000 fires at
>an average fuel cost/firing of $22 USD. The kiln is a cubic meter in
>size.
>
>Cheers, and good designing,
>
>Hank in Eugene
>www.murrow.biz/hank
>
>ps: Ivor's suggestion is wonderfully apropos to the project described,
>BTW.
>
>On Dec 28, 2003, at 3:29 PM, iandol wrote:
>
>> Dear Sam Kelly,
>>
>> I suggest you get some fridge packing case brown corrugated card, cut
>> to size and wedge it against the ceramic fibre with bamboo or similar
>> thin timber stays.
>>
>> It can even be left in place and fired out. I used this idea with an
>> internal flue. Worked extremely well.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Hank Murrow on mon 29 dec 03
Again;
I have written Sam and Diana about this construction which uses the
blanket form of ceramic fiber. For those unfamiliar with it, or
possibly confused by my written description of the process, there is
this link to an article I wrote for ceramics Monthly which has a
drawing in cross-section of the wall construction if you scroll to the
bottom.... http://www.ceramicsmonthly.org/mustreads/shinofire.asp
BTW, their pics show excellent skills in metalwork.
Thanks, Hank in Eugene
On Dec 29, 2003, at 2:30 AM, Sam Kelly wrote:
> I can see what you are saying, however fibre blanket is all we have got
> (96kg and 128kg hot face[1400 celcius]). Here is 4 pics of the kiln,
> freshley lined with 1.2mm stainless steel
> http://www.users.bigpond.com/sdkelly9/kiln.htm
>
> Sam & Diana
>
>
> On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:49:58 -0800, Hank Murrow
> wrote:
>> I have followed the thread of lining kilns with fiber with interest,
>> yet hesitated to respond because it seemed that an existing kiln
>> partially lined with existing refractory was the main determinant.
>> However, since folks may be looking to this thread to inform
>> themselves
>> about new kiln construction, I am stepping into the discussion.
>>
>> I strongly recommend that would be fiber kiln designers consider using
>> the fiber blanket in 'folded module' construction. That is, the 8
>> pounds/cu.ft. fiber is folded in a frame with thin formers to yield an
>> eight fold module, the formers removed, and the module is then
>> compressed one third to a density of 12 pounds/cu.ft. The module is
>> taped to prevent unfolding, and is stacked into the supporting metal
>> shell of the kiln and onto specially fabricated stainless alloy
>> anchors
>> which penetrate the module 2" from, and parallel to, the hot face.
>> With
>> this construction, there will be little or no hot gas penetration to
>> the shell, and the anchors will hold the module securely behind the
>> cold face folds of the module. It is not the cheapest construction
>> with
>> ceramic fiber, but it can be done DIY, and it offers the promise of
>> exceptional longevity. At the Canadian Clay Conference to be held
>> March
>> 20 at the Shadbolt Centre for the Arts, They will celebrate the 1000th
>> firing of the kiln I designed and built for them in 1985. 1000 fires
>> at
>> an average fuel cost/firing of $22 USD. The kiln is a cubic meter in
>> size.
>>
>> Cheers, and good designing,
>>
>> Hank in Eugene
>> www.murrow.biz/hank
>>
>> ps: Ivor's suggestion is wonderfully apropos to the project described,
>> BTW.
>>
>> On Dec 28, 2003, at 3:29 PM, iandol wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sam Kelly,
>>>
>>> I suggest you get some fridge packing case brown corrugated card, cut
>>> to size and wedge it against the ceramic fibre with bamboo or similar
>>> thin timber stays.
>>>
>>> It can even be left in place and fired out. I used this idea with an
>>> internal flue. Worked extremely well.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> _____
> ___
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Mark & Linda on mon 29 dec 03
Sam I have lined many a kiln with fiber. Leave plenty of room for
shrinkage. Do this by leaving the fiber wavy like a loose mattress
covering. If you do not the fiber shrinks and pulls on the buttons
and makes for gaps.The overlaps should be large enough for shrinkage
to occur. My best fiber install so far( after 100 plus cone 11 fires)
is after I put it up very loose I sprayed it with ITC and mashed it
flat aginst the wall wet ( this was a suggestion from Nils Lou ). I
left lots of room (Loose) for shrinkage. After 100+ high fires its
looking great. The only problem is the buttons in the firebox tend to
bloat and the wires fail overtime in the hot spots. The buttons are
porcelain.Mark
>Thanks for the ideas, the cardboard ideas seem to be the best as long as
>there is no damage to the fibre at a later date. I could have used buttons
>on all layers but I didn't make enough, but a couple in strategic places
>won't go astray.
>The joining overlaps and shrinkage of new fibre as mentioned in a reply is
>now a factor to consider.
>
>Thanks, Sam & Diana
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Mark & Linda on mon 29 dec 03
Sam
Hank is right about the folded tips. I made my roof with that in
mind on our salt kiln except the intire roof is one module. We made a
jig from plywood and folded over the two foot fiber( roll type)
three feet wide. Into u shaped strips. Inthe wood jig we comprressed
them and ran stainless rods thru them the fold is kiln side in. The
roof is one piece and is holding up great (its a flat top).You pick
it up as one and put it in place. If you are thinking fiber roof this
is a great way to go. Mark www.liscomhillpottery.com
>I can see what you are saying, however fibre blanket is all we have got
>(96kg and 128kg hot face[1400 celcius]). Here is 4 pics of the kiln,
>freshley lined with 1.2mm stainless steel
>http://www.users.bigpond.com/sdkelly9/kiln.htm
>
>Sam & Diana
>
>
>On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 20:49:58 -0800, Hank Murrow wrote:
>
>>Dear ceramic fiber designers;
>>
>>I have followed the thread of lining kilns with fiber with interest,
>>yet hesitated to respond because it seemed that an existing kiln
>>partially lined with existing refractory was the main determinant.
>>However, since folks may be looking to this thread to inform themselves
>>about new kiln construction, I am stepping into the discussion.
>>
>>I strongly recommend that would be fiber kiln designers consider using
>>the fiber blanket in 'folded module' construction. That is, the 8
>>pounds/cu.ft. fiber is folded in a frame with thin formers to yield an
>>eight fold module, the formers removed, and the module is then
>>compressed one third to a density of 12 pounds/cu.ft. The module is
>>taped to prevent unfolding, and is stacked into the supporting metal
>>shell of the kiln and onto specially fabricated stainless alloy anchors
>>which penetrate the module 2" from, and parallel to, the hot face. With
>>this construction, there will be little or no hot gas penetration to
>>the shell, and the anchors will hold the module securely behind the
>>cold face folds of the module. It is not the cheapest construction with
>>ceramic fiber, but it can be done DIY, and it offers the promise of
>>exceptional longevity. At the Canadian Clay Conference to be held March
>>20 at the Shadbolt Centre for the Arts, They will celebrate the 1000th
>>firing of the kiln I designed and built for them in 1985. 1000 fires at
>>an average fuel cost/firing of $22 USD. The kiln is a cubic meter in
>>size.
>>
>>Cheers, and good designing,
>>
>>Hank in Eugene
>>www.murrow.biz/hank
>>
>>ps: Ivor's suggestion is wonderfully apropos to the project described,
>>BTW.
>>
>>On Dec 28, 2003, at 3:29 PM, iandol wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sam Kelly,
>>>
>>> I suggest you get some fridge packing case brown corrugated card, cut
>>> to size and wedge it against the ceramic fibre with bamboo or similar
>>> thin timber stays.
>>>
>>> It can even be left in place and fired out. I used this idea with an
>>> internal flue. Worked extremely well.
>>
>>___________________________________________________________________________
>___
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
iandol on mon 29 dec 03
Dear Sam Kelly,=20
I suggest you get some fridge packing case brown corrugated card, cut to =
size and wedge it against the ceramic fibre with bamboo or similar thin =
timber stays.
It can even be left in place and fired out. I used this idea with an =
internal flue. Worked extremely well.
Best regards,Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Steve Mills on fri 2 jan 04
This is definitely the way to do it, especially on larger kilns.
Unfortunately for me I came across this technique after I had built my
last large Kiln, but the ones I have since met have, like Hank's
outlived a lot of others.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Hank Murrow writes
>Dear ceramic fiber designers;
>
>I have followed the thread of lining kilns with fiber with interest,
>I strongly recommend that would be fiber kiln designers consider using
>the fiber blanket in 'folded module' construction. That is, the 8
>pounds/cu.ft. fiber is folded in a frame with thin formers to yield an
>eight fold module, the formers removed, and the module is then
>compressed one third to a density of 12 pounds/cu.ft. The module is
>taped to prevent unfolding, and is stacked into the supporting metal
>shell of the kiln and onto specially fabricated stainless alloy anchors
>which penetrate the module 2" from, and parallel to, the hot face. With
>this construction, there will be little or no hot gas penetration to
>the shell, and the anchors will hold the module securely behind the
>cold face folds of the module. It is not the cheapest construction with
>ceramic fiber, but it can be done DIY, and it offers the promise of
>exceptional longevity. At the Canadian Clay Conference to be held March
>20 at the Shadbolt Centre for the Arts, They will celebrate the 1000th
>firing of the kiln I designed and built for them in 1985. 1000 fires at
>an average fuel cost/firing of $22 USD. The kiln is a cubic meter in
>size.
>
>Cheers, and good designing,
>
>Hank in Eugene
>www.murrow.biz/hank
>
>ps: Ivor's suggestion is wonderfully apropos to the project described,
>BTW.
>
>On Dec 28, 2003, at 3:29 PM, iandol wrote:
>
>> Dear Sam Kelly,
>>
>> I suggest you get some fridge packing case brown corrugated card, cut
>> to size and wedge it against the ceramic fibre with bamboo or similar
>> thin timber stays.
>>
>> It can even be left in place and fired out. I used this idea with an
>> internal flue. Worked extremely well.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
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