Jeff Longtin on sun 28 dec 03
As I read all the various descriptions of people's lives and they way they
are, or are not, supporting themselves I find myself coming to the conclusion
that in many ways the "business" of being a studio potter is not really a
business in the classic sense.
I wonder if it might not be good for us to start looking at studio pottery in
the classic business sense and start to apply standard business practices and
therefore make it more feasible for more of us to support ourselves, and our
loved ones, from it?
Right now I am on the verge of bringing my work into the market. Trying to
decide if I should stick with being a studio potter, i.e. more
individual/solitary, or if I shouldn't look at creating a production company, i.e. a factory,
with lots of employees, is my current challenge?
As I don't have alot of money right now I probably need to look at getting a
loan of some sort. (I have the kiln and wheel, and a few molds of course, but
I don't have a lot of room.) To ramp up production, in any way, means having
more space. More space means more money (of course).
So here's the dilema, do you think its really feasible to approach a lender
to get money to support me starting a business that serves my needs, AND MY
NEEDS ALONE? Or do you think lenders would be more amenable to loaning me money
to start a company that employs A NUMBER OF PEOPLE?
I suspect most lenders want to support "businesses" and not so much, "people
in business".
So here's my dilema: (Rhetorical question really) How do I create what I
think is a reasonable means to support myself and create objects that are artistic
and of high quality?
Of course if you've read any of my previous posts you know this is a
challenge I will confront and solve I just find myself fascinated that making these
decisions could be so challenging and bewildering?
Think about it another way: What "industry" is made up of people working,
more often than not, alone in their own work spaces? Most industries are made up
of "companies" where lots of people work together to produce lots of things.
Why should really cool handcrafted pots be any different?
If some of us could solve that problem, and create a business model for
successfully doing so, then maybe our universities and colleges could teach THAT to
our future art/craft students such that they could do the same?
just a thought?
take care gang
Jeff Longtin
Krista Peterson on mon 29 dec 03
Jeff,
I have thought of this but have the same question in my head as to whether =
or not it is feasable. Like, what about starting a pottery that made fine w=
ares such as the potteries during the arts and crafts era. In looking at my=
options as a ceramic artist it seemed like those kinds of potteries, if th=
ey exist at all anymore, are all on the east coast(of the U.S.). As far as =
I know, there isn't anything like that in the western part of the U.S. Out =
here it's the Lone Wolf potter in his/her studio eeking out a living. Overh=
ead could be high to start out, because you would need lots of space. And y=
ou may have to show that you have outlets for your wares before you get any=
kind of approval for a loan.=20
It would be nice if there was a place that employed fresh young artists out=
of school. They would get practical experience in both business and their =
craft and they would, hopefully be able to support themselves during a time=
when they need it most. After I graduated I was lucky to get jobs in art c=
enters, but they never paid enough for me to make any kind of head way on t=
he student loan. And since a big chunk of my time was spent in the service =
of others my own work hasn't been able to develop into what I envision. The=
y say, "Oh well that's what graduate school is for". I have no desire to go=
further into debt for graduate school at this time. The only thing graduat=
e school is good for is if you want to teach and as far as I've seen there =
are very few teaching jobs compared to the number of artists looking for th=
ose jobs and many of them are contractual and part time anyways. Residencie=
s are good for developing ones work but again the issue of money comes up. =
You may have access to equipment and supplies, and even have a place to liv=
e but a person still needs some kind of income if they went to school on st=
udent loans. It takes time for an artists work to gain enough momentum to e=
ven bring in enough money equal to a part time job. So in the mean time the=
wolves are at the door, so to speak.=20
As for the colleges and universities teaching any kind of business to their=
students, my experience with this is that they seem to look down on one tr=
ying to make money from their work. This aspect is totally ignored because =
they like to think they are developing new ideas and new research. When eve=
r I bring up the subject of business and art around academic types they loo=
k at me like I'm crazy. The Bauhaus included the running of a business in t=
heir curriculum and even taught their students about accounting and taxes. =
Too bad Hitler dismantled it. I have not come across any school that has su=
ch a well rounded education in the U.S. PLease someone correct me if I'm wr=
ong on that. The school that I went to had a gallery class but it was cut w=
ithin a few years.=20
If you go ahead with your plan I would like to hear how you do.
Good luck
Krista Peterson
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Longtin
Sent: Dec 28, 2003 5:14 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Studio Potter is Not an Option? (long/longish)
As I read all the various descriptions of people's lives and they way they
are, or are not, supporting themselves I find myself coming to the conclusi=
on
that in many ways the "business" of being a studio potter is not really a
business in the classic sense.
I wonder if it might not be good for us to start looking at studio pottery =
in
the classic business sense and start to apply standard business practices a=
nd
therefore make it more feasible for more of us to support ourselves, and ou=
r
loved ones, from it?
Right now I am on the verge of bringing my work into the market. Trying to
decide if I should stick with being a studio potter, i.e. more
individual/solitary, or if I shouldn't look at creating a production compan=
y, i.e. a factory,
with lots of employees, is my current challenge?
As I don't have alot of money right now I probably need to look at getting =
a
loan of some sort. (I have the kiln and wheel, and a few molds of course, b=
ut
I don't have a lot of room.) To ramp up production, in any way, means havin=
g
more space. More space means more money (of course).
I suspect most lenders want to support "businesses" and not so much, "peopl=
e
in business".
So here's my dilema: (Rhetorical question really) How do I create what I
think is a reasonable means to support myself and create objects that are a=
rtistic
and of high quality?
Of course if you've read any of my previous posts you know this is a
challenge I will confront and solve I just find myself fascinated that maki=
ng these
decisions could be so challenging and bewildering?
Think about it another way: What "industry" is made up of people working,
more often than not, alone in their own work spaces? Most industries are ma=
de up
of "companies" where lots of people work together to produce lots of things=
.
Why should really cool handcrafted pots be any different?
If some of us could solve that problem, and create a business model for
successfully doing so, then maybe our universities and colleges could teach=
THAT to
our future art/craft students such that they could do the same?
just a thought?
take care gang
Jeff Longtin
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Dave Finkelnburg on mon 29 dec 03
Jeff,
Your thoughtful post sparks a couple comments from here.
First, whether you choose to be a studio artist or a manufacturing
company employer depends much upon whether you want to be a
manager/supervisor/trainer/solver of people problems in your business/etc or
whether your passion is controlling your art from start to finish.
Second, which course you pick is probably not of nearly as much interest
to a potential lender as whether your business plan is sound and likely to
be successful.
So, I think the bottom line here is simple. Pick your passion. Then
pencil out a business around that passion and see whether you can make a
profit at it.
All the best with whichever way you go!
Dave Finkelnburg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Longtin"
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 6:14 PM
> Right now I am on the verge of bringing my work into the market. Trying to
> decide if I should stick with being a studio potter, i.e. more
> individual/solitary, or if I shouldn't look at creating a production
company, i.e. a factory,
> with lots of employees, is my current challenge?
>
> As I don't have alot of money right now I probably need to look at getting
a
> loan of some sort. (I have the kiln and wheel, and a few molds of course,
but
> I don't have a lot of room.) To ramp up production, in any way, means
having
> more space. More space means more money (of course).
>
> So here's the dilema, do you think its really feasible to approach a
lender
> to get money to support me starting a business that serves my needs, AND
MY
> NEEDS ALONE? Or do you think lenders would be more amenable to loaning me
money
> to start a company that employs A NUMBER OF PEOPLE?
Kathy Forer on mon 29 dec 03
On Dec 28, 2003, at 8:14 PM, Jeff Longtin wrote:
> Think about it another way: What "industry" is made up of people
> working,
> more often than not, alone in their own work spaces? Most industries
> are made up
> of "companies" where lots of people work together to produce lots of
> things.
> Why should really cool handcrafted pots be any different?
Freelance and self-incorporated Internet workers are often in the same
place. Working Today http://www.workingtoday.org/ has various resources
that may be useful to you. http://www.mybizoffice.com/ and many others
like it may also be helpful. It's not quite exactly the Bauhaus, but
there's an interesting web of people working in technology that
replicates some of the older "cathedral" models.
Kathy Forer
www.kforer.com www.foreverink.com
Jeff Longtin on mon 29 dec 03
Dave,
While I completely appreciate what you say I would like to respond explicitly
to each point just to clarify my statements:
On the issue of independence: My point in bringing up this issue is not to
discuss the problems of being a manager/employer and debate the pros and cons of
being such but rather to make the point that maybe we need to turn the idea
of being, "a potter," into a more community oriented activity and that maybe,
as a result of doing THAT, we'll invest more community members in our efforts
such that THEY will want to see us succeed and that our value TO the community
will increase?
The idea that, gee, "I'm an independent ole potter" and that I deserve to do
whatever I WANT might be a tad too self centered for this day and age?
(My point is that maybe it's that self-centeredness that makes it so hard for
others to appreciate our plight, and why so many of us find it hard to make a
living, "doing what WE want to do"?)
On the issue of lenders: You are completely right about a good business plan
being the first step, but, and a very BIG but here, the amount of money you
need to start a business on your own, and keep it, "your own," does not appeal
to a lender. The math is really simple in this regard. You, no matter how
productive you'll ever become, can never generate more than a specific, i.e. small,
level of revenue. (There are only so many hours in the day.) As that level is
somewhat estimatable it is easy for a lender to determine how much revenue
you'll ever generate in a given period of time such that he or she knows there's
only so much money they SHOULD lend you since there's only so much money
you'll ever produce (and therefore payback).
Again the math is really simple: why would a lender, an institution that is
the safekeeper of many people's money, want to give alot of that money to
someone who wants to squirrel it away for their own good, "I'm an independent
potter," when they could give it to someone who wants to start a business that
employs many, maybe even a few of whom who have deposited some of THEIR hard
earned money IN that institution?
For the world to care about us being potters maybe WE need to start CARING
about the world? Instead of orienting ourselves toward the idea of being
"potters" maybe we should start to orient ourselves to being "pottery businesses"?
My goal (again) is too create a pottery business that employs many in the
process of making really cool ceramic household objects (Braille pots included)
such that someone SOMEONE, in this great land of ours can that say, "Yes, I'm a
POTTER, and yes, WE (our company) make lots and lots of cool pots for people
to use and appreciate in their homes."
Hopefully I can encourage others to join me, i.e. start pottery businesses of
their own, and my case won't seem so outlandish?
take care
Jeff Longtin
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