Craig Edwards on mon 29 dec 03
Thanks Rick for the Art Speak site! What a hoot. It will make even
shallow people like me sound even shallower-- hell, it will make me so
shallow, I'll be all surface. :o)
Craig Edwards
New London MN
Where the snow has gently fallen all day. Shades of white.
Mike Gordon on sun 8 oct 06
Ceramics Art and Perception is a wonderful magazine, they seldom give
any information about temp., kiln atmosphere, type of clay or any other
information relating to "how it was made". I guess that is where the "
perception" comes in. Some nice pots by Andrew Palin on Pg. 88, Issue
65, this month, talks about his crater glaze. The article is written by
Craig Ashley, a curator and writer on the arts in the UK. Craig
writes....
"The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a synthetic and accelerated
re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the earth's surface,
transforms the glaze into a bas - releif of flora and fauna, limestone
cliffs and mineral deposits."Is it just me or does anyone else think
this falls into the category of " art speak" ? Mike Gordon
Lee Love on mon 9 oct 06
On 10/9/06, Mike Gordon wrote:
> perception" comes in. Some nice pots by Andrew Palin on Pg. 88, Issue
> 65, this month, talks about his crater glaze. The article is written by
> Craig Ashley, a curator and writer on the arts in the UK. Craig
> writes....
> cliffs and mineral deposits."Is it just me or does anyone else think
> this falls into the category of " art speak" ? Mike Gordon
I don't think this qualifies for artspeak. Doesn't use the typical
studio arts building jargon.
Some folks focus on the technical. Some on the process.
I think this example focuses more on the process.
The really great think about our medium is that there are
so many different entries into it. I don't think one way negates
another, unless it purposely tries to do so.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Des & Jan Howard on mon 9 oct 06
Mike
That's why Ceramics Technical was born, though I have noticed a
tendency for "perception" articles to sneak in, prolly difficult to find
enough technical writers. I guess it's easier to waffle than to do the
hard yards.
Des
Mike Gordon wrote:
> Ceramics Art and Perception is a wonderful magazine, they seldom give
> any information about temp., kiln atmosphere, type of clay or any other
> information relating to "how it was made". I guess that is where the "
> perception" comes in.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Elizabeth Priddy on mon 9 oct 06
"The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a synthetic
and accelerated
re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the earth's
surface,
transforms the glaze into a bas - releif of flora and
fauna, limestone
cliffs and mineral deposits."Is it just me or does
anyone else think
this falls into the category of " art speak" ? Mike
Gordon
________________________________
Yes, it is art speak.
And it is good. It is describing in poetic terms,
what happens in the kiln. It is not addressing the
technical information about how fire works on
materials but instead on why the process fascinates
us.
Turning your nose up against highbrow high-falutin
language is really only funny in stand up comedy.
there is room in life for a more romantic view of what
we are doing.
In fact, the balance that some potters say they seek
would be found in the alternative viewing of how you
spend your time.
I am a pragmatist and a skeptic, cynical even. But
yet I can get my head around poetry, romance, fantasy,
even opera if the right fat lady is singing.
But a denial of the highbrow nature that all of us
have inside somewhere just because it is unfamiliar is
a knee jerk reaction to the world that kicks the baby
out with the bethwater.
If artspeak was all there is, then I would abandon all
hope, but it is not.
Doesn't some book remark a "time for every season"?
I'm for that.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
__________________________________________________
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maggie jones on mon 9 oct 06
isn't there a simpler, clearer way to say that?
maggie
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 06:03:42 -0700 Elizabeth Priddy
writes:
> "The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a synthetic
> and accelerated
> re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the earth's
> surface,
> transforms the glaze into a bas - releif of flora and
> fauna, limestone
> cliffs and mineral deposits."Is it just me or does
> anyone else think
> this falls into the category of " art speak" ? Mike
> Gordon
>
> ________________________________
>
> Yes, it is art speak.
>
> And it is good. It is describing in poetic terms,
> what happens in the kiln. It is not addressing the
> technical information about how fire works on
> materials but instead on why the process fascinates
> us.
>
> Turning your nose up against highbrow high-falutin
> language is really only funny in stand up comedy.
> there is room in life for a more romantic view of what
> we are doing.
>
> In fact, the balance that some potters say they seek
> would be found in the alternative viewing of how you
> spend your time.
>
> I am a pragmatist and a skeptic, cynical even. But
> yet I can get my head around poetry, romance, fantasy,
> even opera if the right fat lady is singing.
>
> But a denial of the highbrow nature that all of us
> have inside somewhere just because it is unfamiliar is
> a knee jerk reaction to the world that kicks the baby
> out with the bethwater.
>
> If artspeak was all there is, then I would abandon all
> hope, but it is not.
>
> Doesn't some book remark a "time for every season"?
>
> I'm for that.
>
> E
>
>
> Elizabeth Priddy
>
> Beaufort, NC - USA
> http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Snail Scott on mon 9 oct 06
On Oct 8, 2006, at 1:31 PM, Mike Gordon wrote:
> "The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a synthetic and accelerated
> re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the earth's surface,
> transforms the glaze into a bas - releif of flora and fauna, limestone
> cliffs and mineral deposits."
>
> Is it just me or does anyone else think
> this falls into the category of " art speak" ?
Not really, if by 'artspeak' you mean a deliberately
obscurantist or pretentious use of jargon.
I do think that this sort of writing comes more often
from writers and critics with a broader background
than just ceramics. For us, the idea that the kiln firing
is a re-enactment of geological processes on a
small scale, turning clay back into rock, is not new.
It's something that many of us discovered and may
have been enamored of when we began, but we
eventually became desensitized. Like building a
metaphor on the notion of the ever-turning wheel
or some such, it's gotten old to us through
overexposure.
That doesn't invalidate it to the viewer, though, and
this artist's work (I assume; haven't seen it yet)
apparently seeks to use that correspondence of
geological and ceramic processes in a deliberate
way which may still be fresh to the viewer and to
the writer who describes it.
I thought this was a literate and evocative description
of a rough, craggy surface which apparently evokes
landscape in miniature. If the work actually looks
that way, it's a nice bit of writing aimed at general
audience. If the work isn't accurately described by
this, then it's not good writing, for anyone. I don't
believe it could be termed 'artspeak', however.
Artspeak, in my mind, is the overuse of jargon.
What constitutes overuse depends a lot on the
venue, though. Something might indeed be
artspeak if poublished in the arts section of the
local daily paper, but be entirely appropriate in a
professional journal for art historians and theorists.
It's still possible to have artspeak in that setting,
too, though, if the jargon is used to obscure a
lack of actual information or to give a veneer of
legitimacy to a poorly thought-out argument.
Artspeak is usually a means to 'baffle them with
bullshit' by concealing the flimsiness of the
analysis, or to make the work (or the writer)
seem more sophisticated. Excessively poetic
description, or writing which gains credibility by
using external references that are largely
irrelevant to the work at hand, are simply bad
writing.
I don't think this writing is bad. It gives off a 'vibe'
of pretentiousness, perhaps, because we are
unaccustomed to seeing metaphor, compound
sentences, and three- and four- syllable words
in informal written use. It also may seem off the
mark to us nuts-and-bolts practitioners, who see
glaze first as a chemical blend, or a practical
material, or an attractive surface, and not as an
analogy or a conduit for meaning.
However, this is not inappropriate writing for a
glossy magazine that presents itself as a vehicle
for moderately in-depth criticism and analysis
aimed at an interested but non-specialist
readership.
-Snail
Vince Pitelka on mon 9 oct 06
Mike Gordon quoted the Australian ceramics journal "Ceramic Art and
Perception":
> "The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a synthetic and accelerated
> re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the earth's surface,
> transforms the glaze into a bas-releif of flora and fauna, limestone
> cliffs and mineral deposits."
And then he asked:
> Is it just me or does anyone else think this falls into the category of "
> art speak" ? Mike Gordon
Mike -
I think that the writer is perhaps guilty of using language that is more
elaborate than necessary (something any really good writer avoids), but
otherwise, I do not understand why you would think of the above statement as
artspeak. The writer makes a very good point by drawing a connection
between the firing process as a greatly accelerated version of what happens
over geological time. I do think he goes a little to far in saying "flora
and fauna," when he would have been better off just saying ". . .
transforms the glaze into a bas-relief of limestone cliffs and mineral
deposits."
In my opinion, "Ceramic Art and Perception" is the most
intelligently-written ceramics magazine in the world, but for reasons I do
not understand, occasional articles do border upon (or descend whole-hog
into) artspeak. Janet Mansfield, editor of CAP, is a wonderful potter and a
great human being, and she and her co-horts do an excellent job of
assembling that magazine four times a year, so I am not sure why those
occasional obtuse articles slip in.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on mon 9 oct 06
Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> Yes, it is art speak.
> And it is good.
Elizabeth -
I think you contradicted your self there. If you said "It is intelligent
speech about art," then you would be correct, and based on the rest of your
message, I think that's what you meant. As you know "artspeak" (written as
either one or two words) in contemporary fine art parlance refers to spoken
or written language about art where all the trick words and cliches are used
in a way that makes the whole explanation trite and pointless, or where it
makes the content obtuse and impenetrable, and either way, the true meaning
becomes irrelevant.
You continued:
> It is describing in poetic terms,
> what happens in the kiln.
I guess we have very different definitions of artspeak. I would never
consider a piece of writing that is "describing in poetic terms what happens
in the kiln" to be artspeak.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Joan Klotz on mon 9 oct 06
Mike,
I don't think it can be "art speak" because I understood every word
of it. When it is what I think of as "art speak" I end up by asking
myself "what on earth was he/she saying?"
Joan Klotz
>Craig Ashley, a curator and writer on the arts in the UK. Craig
>writes....
>"The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a synthetic and accelerated
>re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the earth's surface,
>transforms the glaze into a bas - releif of flora and fauna, limestone
>cliffs and mineral deposits."Is it just me or does anyone else think
>this falls into the category of " art speak" ? Mike Gordon
Julene on tue 10 oct 06
In eighth grade, our required reading was "The
Lord of the Rings" Trilogy. I enjoyed it then,
but I was impatient and read quickly. Names and
language were more of a waste of time.
Now, my son has picked these books as our nightly
reading material. We are well into the second
book. I am not so much in a hurry to get to the
end any more and can read for enjoyment. I
already know the ending and know that the
enjoyment is in the trail not the destination.
Enjoying the words and taking the time to enjoy
them was something I was not able to do as a
teenager.
My son is now honing his skills as a reader. He
is not able to read these books by himself and
enjoy the experience, though having them read to
him is a different story.
We are all different, at different stages in our
lives. This steriotype that artists should all
fit into some mold is quite boring. We do not
look, think, or create art for the same reasons in
the same ways. Some may love the use of language.
For others, it just is not how their mind works.
Writing can be very hard work especially if one
does not enjoy language and the use of words.
Technical writing is a whole different media.
Some of us are wonderful, kind and always
cheerful; "others" are just mean and pissy. It is
would be strange to only want to know artists
after they are dead, because the real artist does
not fit our mold of what they should be.
Julene Kielman,
After 32 years, the horse, who will always be, to
me, the escence of horeness has taken the trail
before me, without me. I am now taking the time
to create an arena where a new horse can train me
as her partner.
Snail Scott on tue 10 oct 06
On Oct 9, 2006, at 9:40 AM, maggie jones wrote:
> isn't there a simpler, clearer way to say that?
>
> maggie
>
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 06:03:42 -0700 Elizabeth Priddy
>
> writes:
>> "The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a synthetic
>> and accelerated
>> re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the earth's
>> surface,
>> transforms the glaze into a bas - releif of flora and
>> fauna, limestone
>> cliffs and mineral deposits."
It seems clear enough. A trifle florid, perhaps.
It could be simpler, of course, like:
"The firing causes fake geology effects that
look like landscape."
But is that really better? Somewhere between,
maybe...
-Snail
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 10 oct 06
"Rough Glaze"
Phil
el v
----- Original Message -----
From: "maggie jones"
> isn't there a simpler, clearer way to say that?
>
> maggie
>
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 06:03:42 -0700 Elizabeth
Priddy
> writes:
> > "The subsequent kiln firing, facilitating a
synthetic
> > and accelerated
> > re-enactment of enviornmental effects upon the
earth's
> > surface,
> > transforms the glaze into a bas - releif of
flora and
> > fauna, limestone
> > cliffs and mineral deposits."Is it just me or
does
> > anyone else think
> > this falls into the category of " art speak"
? Mike
> > Gordon
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Yes, it is art speak.
> >
> > And it is good. It is describing in poetic
terms,
> > what happens in the kiln. It is not
addressing the
> > technical information about how fire works on
> > materials but instead on why the process
fascinates
> > us.
> >
> > Turning your nose up against highbrow
high-falutin
> > language is really only funny in stand up
comedy.
> > there is room in life for a more romantic view
of what
> > we are doing.
> >
> > In fact, the balance that some potters say
they seek
> > would be found in the alternative viewing of
how you
> > spend your time.
> >
> > I am a pragmatist and a skeptic, cynical even.
But
> > yet I can get my head around poetry, romance,
fantasy,
> > even opera if the right fat lady is singing.
> >
> > But a denial of the highbrow nature that all
of us
> > have inside somewhere just because it is
unfamiliar is
> > a knee jerk reaction to the world that kicks
the baby
> > out with the bethwater.
> >
> > If artspeak was all there is, then I would
abandon all
> > hope, but it is not.
> >
> > Doesn't some book remark a "time for every
season"?
> >
> > I'm for that.
> >
> > E
> >
> >
> > Elizabeth Priddy
> >
> > Beaufort, NC - USA
> > http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
> >
> >
__________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
__________________________________________________
_______________________
> _____
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or
change your
> > subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may
be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
____________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lee Love on tue 10 oct 06
On 10/10/06, Joan Klotz wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I don't think it can be "art speak" because I understood every word
> of it. When it is what I think of as "art speak" I end up by asking
> myself "what on earth was he/she saying?"
I agree. Avoiding "artspeak" is not the same as
anti-intellectualism. Artspeak is used to hide what you don't
know. I think the aurthor was making a sincere attempt at
communication.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Lee Love on wed 11 oct 06
On 10/11/06, pdp1@earthlink.net wrote:
> "Rough Glaze"
>
>
THat's what I call glazes made from non-refined materials.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 11 oct 06
On second thoughts, perhaps the missing word applying to both concepts =
is "Metamorphosis"
Best regards.
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Lee Love on wed 11 oct 06
On 10/11/06, Snail Scott wrote:
> On Oct 9, 2006, at 9:40 AM, maggie jones wrote:
could be simpler, of course, like:
>
> "The firing causes fake geology effects that
> look like landscape."
This sounds negative and not at all what the original
writer intended. He seemed to be talking about a genuine effect.
Certainly, it is difficult to know how accurate the writer
is, without seeing the actual work.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
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