Bruce Girrell on wed 31 dec 03
Seasons Greetings
I was good enough this year that Santa brought me a new Fluke 54-2 pyrometer
along with a couple of heavy duty thermocouples and sheaths. But, alas, he
failed to provide any means to connect the two parts together. The pyrometer
uses proprietary plugs to connect the thermocouple. It does come with two
itty-bitty thermocouples on 3 ft. wires. The thermocouples came without
wires or any means of attachment, other than a big honkin' ceramic terminal
block with screw terminals.
Before I get to the good stuff, let me just toss out some information about
the Fluke pyrometers in general. Models 51-2 and 53-2 handle one
thermocouple. Models 52-2 and 54-2 handle two thermocouples. Models 53-2 and
54-2 support type R, N, and S thermocouples as well as the type J, K, T, and
E thermocouples supported by the 51-2 and 52-2. Models 53-2 and 54-2 support
time stamping of up to 500 data points with a user settable time interval
between measurements. The data can be downloaded data to a personal computer
via optional software/hardware.
Back to the problem at hand: How do I connect the meter to the
thermocouples?
After phone calls to Axner (where I (uh.. I mean Santa) bought the
thermocouples), phone calls to the place where the pyrometer came from, and
emails back and forth several times to Fluke, I found out the following:
Method 1)
For each thermocouple, clip the tiny thermocouple from the end of the wires
provided by Fluke, split the ends of the two wires apart, strip insulation
from the end of each wire and attach the wires to the heavy duty
thermocouple terminal block.
Quick, simple, and no additional cost. The downside is that the wires are
only 3 ft. long, so your shiny new meter is going to have to live right next
to the kiln just to have enough wire to reach two different probe locations.
Also, the thermocouples supplied by Fluke could be used as a reference to
check the condition of your heavy duty thermocouples. Once they have been
clipped off, that is no longer an option.
Method 2)
Fluke sells plugs with screw terminals, Model 80CK-M. Cost is US$11.00 for a
set of two plugs. Fluke tells me that you can use 20 or 22 gauge type K
thermocouple wire in lengths up to 50 ft. (and possibly much more) to
connect the thermocouples to the pyrometer. I have no idea what is special
about "type K thermocouple wire", but it costs US$1.25 per foot. So for a
pretty modest cost you can have your pyrometer located in a safe place where
it is easy to see.
Other information:
The data can be downloaded from the meter only via proprietary software
called FlukeView Forms. The software also comes with an infrared-to-serial
data link to get the data into your computer. The part number is FVF-SC1 and
the cost is US$150.00. One thing that is not the least bit obvious is the
location of the infrared transmitter on the meter. It is located between the
two thermocouple jacks on the 54-2 and I would imagine that it is located
next to the single thermocouple jack on the 53-2. You point the meter toward
the IR-to-serial receiver and the software is supposed to recognize the
meter and allow you to download the data.
FlukeView Forms also recognizes some other Fluke meters and can download
from them also. The software has graphing and export functions (so that you
could export data to Excel, for example). See
http://www.fluke.com/products/home.asp?PID=17397&AGID=6&SID=9 for details.
Bruce "Ho Ho Ho" Girrell
John Rodgers on wed 31 dec 03
Bruce Girrell wrote:
>Seasons Greetings
>
>I was good enough this year that Santa brought me a new Fluke 54-2 pyrometer
>along with a couple of heavy duty thermocouples and sheaths. Fluke tells me that you can use 20 or 22 gauge type K
>thermocouple wire in lengths up to 50 ft. (and possibly much more) to
>connect the thermocouples to the pyrometer. I have no idea what is special
>about "type K thermocouple wire", but it costs US$1.25 per foot. So for a
>pretty modest cost you can have your pyrometer located in a safe place where
>it is easy to see.
>
Bruce, I suspect that the the deal on Type "K" thermocouple wire is that
the wire is made of a special alloy - note it is substantially stiffer
than regular copper wire of the same size - and it has precisely known
resistance per lineal foot, and thus the meter can be calibrated
precisely given that known resistance. These Type "K" thermocouples
generate microvoltages and precise quality control over the wire
production for correct resistance per foot of wire becomes critical for
accurate measurement.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
dalecochoy on wed 31 dec 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Girrell" Subject: Fluke pyrometer information
> Seasons Greetings
>
> I was good enough this year that Santa brought me a new Fluke 54-2
pyrometer
> along with a couple of heavy duty thermocouples and sheaths. But, alas, he
> failed to provide any means to connect the two parts together. The
pyrometer
> uses proprietary plugs to connect the thermocouple. It does come with two
> itty-bitty thermocouples on 3 ft. wires. The thermocouples came without
> wires or any means of attachment, other than a big honkin' ceramic
terminal
> block with screw terminals.
Bruce,
I ordered mine from a test equipment dealer www.web-tronics.com and it was
cheaper by far than Axner. It CAME WITH the 3 foot leads with PLUGS
ATTACHED. I'd certainly think no matter WHO the middle man is you should get
the two plugs which were attached to the 3 foot cables w/ small
thermocouples on the end. FLUKE should have these supplied with the meter.
How else could you use it out of the box??
>
> Back to the problem at hand: How do I connect the meter to the
> thermocouples?
> After phone calls to Axner (where I (uh.. I mean Santa) bought the
> thermocouples), phone calls to the place where the pyrometer came from,
and
> emails back and forth several times to Fluke, I found out the following:
>
> Method 1)
> For each thermocouple, clip the tiny thermocouple from the end of the
wires
> provided by Fluke, split the ends of the two wires apart, strip insulation
> from the end of each wire and attach the wires to the heavy duty
> thermocouple terminal block.
>
> Quick, simple, and no additional cost. The downside is that the wires are
> only 3 ft. long, so your shiny new meter is going to have to live right
next
> to the kiln just to have enough wire to reach two different probe
locations.
> Also, the thermocouples supplied by Fluke could be used as a reference to
> check the condition of your heavy duty thermocouples. Once they have been
> clipped off, that is no longer an option.
Bruce,
All you neeeded to do was to leave an inch of lead on each small
thermocouple for future testing. etc.!
I didn't bother getting extra long wires, I just set my fluke on something
next to the kiln. No trouble with my 10 cu.ft. kiln reaching top and bottom.
>
> Method 2)
> Fluke sells plugs with screw terminals, Model 80CK-M. Cost is US$11.00 for
a
> set of two plugs. Fluke tells me that you can use 20 or 22 gauge type K
> thermocouple wire in lengths up to 50 ft. (and possibly much more) to
> connect the thermocouples to the pyrometer. I have no idea what is special
> about "type K thermocouple wire", but it costs US$1.25 per foot. So for a
> pretty modest cost you can have your pyrometer located in a safe place
where
> it is easy to see.
I IMAGINE the cost is due to the fact it is a double wire inside of the
sheath. I don't know about "special" but by using their wire you only need
two hanging around the kiln instead of 4 as you would if you bought your own
non-special wire.
BTW, I got the ceramic tubes also. Didn't use them at first cause they were
tight in peeps so I fired without them. I have the 12" thermo leads and
they sagged right away, so I straightened them, slide them inside tubes and
the tubes pretty easily pushed through peeps without even drilling. I'm
pretty sure the thermo's will last longer with the tubes protecting from
sagging and caustic chemicals and any slowness in reaction time was not
noticed by me after installing them.
>
> Other information:
> The data can be downloaded from the meter only via proprietary software
> called FlukeView Forms. The software also comes with an infrared-to-serial
> data link to get the data into your computer. The part number is FVF-SC1
and
> the cost is US$150.00. One thing that is not the least bit obvious is the
> location of the infrared transmitter on the meter. It is located between
the
> two thermocouple jacks on the 54-2 and I would imagine that it is located
> next to the single thermocouple jack on the 53-2. You point the meter
toward
> the IR-to-serial receiver and the software is supposed to recognize the
> meter and allow you to download the data.
Yow...I just use a pencil and a firing log sheet!
Regards,
Dale Cochoy
Mark & Linda on wed 31 dec 03
Bruce I to am a fluke user of many years. The extra plugs from fluke
work good, I have many of them on various kilns. I also used
tetephone wire to run a long lead into the house. The long wire run
reads a little off (on the down side) but you can caculate the drop
in temp. as it it the same thru out the range
I got my six foot lead wire from seattle pottery supply. You can use
any themocouple. Call seattle pottery for other options. I have
melted the case and had to replace the case and other parts. They use
very little battery power and keep on ticking. These meters are the
best I have seen or used. Happy firing. Mark Liscomhillpottery
>Seasons Greetings
>
>I was good enough this year that Santa brought me a new Fluke 54-2 pyrometer
>along with a couple of heavy duty thermocouples and sheaths. But, alas, he
>failed to provide any means to connect the two parts together. The pyrometer
>uses proprietary plugs to connect the thermocouple. It does come with two
>itty-bitty thermocouples on 3 ft. wires. The thermocouples came without
>wires or any means of attachment, other than a big honkin' ceramic terminal
>block with screw terminals.
>
>Before I get to the good stuff, let me just toss out some information about
>the Fluke pyrometers in general. Models 51-2 and 53-2 handle one
>thermocouple. Models 52-2 and 54-2 handle two thermocouples. Models 53-2 and
>54-2 support type R, N, and S thermocouples as well as the type J, K, T, and
>E thermocouples supported by the 51-2 and 52-2. Models 53-2 and 54-2 support
>time stamping of up to 500 data points with a user settable time interval
>between measurements. The data can be downloaded data to a personal computer
>via optional software/hardware.
>
>Back to the problem at hand: How do I connect the meter to the
>thermocouples?
>After phone calls to Axner (where I (uh.. I mean Santa) bought the
>thermocouples), phone calls to the place where the pyrometer came from, and
>emails back and forth several times to Fluke, I found out the following:
>
>Method 1)
>For each thermocouple, clip the tiny thermocouple from the end of the wires
>provided by Fluke, split the ends of the two wires apart, strip insulation
>from the end of each wire and attach the wires to the heavy duty
>thermocouple terminal block.
>
>Quick, simple, and no additional cost. The downside is that the wires are
>only 3 ft. long, so your shiny new meter is going to have to live right next
>to the kiln just to have enough wire to reach two different probe locations.
>Also, the thermocouples supplied by Fluke could be used as a reference to
>check the condition of your heavy duty thermocouples. Once they have been
>clipped off, that is no longer an option.
>
>Method 2)
>Fluke sells plugs with screw terminals, Model 80CK-M. Cost is US$11.00 for a
>set of two plugs. Fluke tells me that you can use 20 or 22 gauge type K
>thermocouple wire in lengths up to 50 ft. (and possibly much more) to
>connect the thermocouples to the pyrometer. I have no idea what is special
>about "type K thermocouple wire", but it costs US$1.25 per foot. So for a
>pretty modest cost you can have your pyrometer located in a safe place where
>it is easy to see.
>
>Other information:
>The data can be downloaded from the meter only via proprietary software
>called FlukeView Forms. The software also comes with an infrared-to-serial
>data link to get the data into your computer. The part number is FVF-SC1 and
>the cost is US$150.00. One thing that is not the least bit obvious is the
>location of the infrared transmitter on the meter. It is located between the
>two thermocouple jacks on the 54-2 and I would imagine that it is located
>next to the single thermocouple jack on the 53-2. You point the meter toward
>the IR-to-serial receiver and the software is supposed to recognize the
>meter and allow you to download the data.
>
>FlukeView Forms also recognizes some other Fluke meters and can download
>from them also. The software has graphing and export functions (so that you
>could export data to Excel, for example). See
>http://www.fluke.com/products/home.asp?PID=17397&AGID=6&SID=9 for details.
>
>
>Bruce "Ho Ho Ho" Girrell
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
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>melpots@pclink.com.
Hendrix, Taylor J. on wed 31 dec 03
Bruce,
Did Santa tell you that even the connecting wires contribute to the
Seabiscut coefficient, which is of course how fast Seabiscut will run
when you hold a candle to his butt? I'm thinking length of leads need
to be taken into account, but they most certainly need to be balanced.
Ask Santa to be sure. Also, those wires have to be of the same metals
as the thermocouple, hence K thermocouple-K wires. Otherwise you get
all kind of thermo coupling going on. One might even call it an orgy of
sorts.
Someone spank me if I'm wrong. Oh, go ahead and spank me anyway.
Taylor, in Waco
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Bruce
Girrell
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 12:05 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Fluke pyrometer information
...
Back to the problem at hand: How do I connect the meter to the
thermocouples?
After phone calls to Axner (where I (uh.. I mean Santa) bought the
thermocouples), phone calls to the place where the pyrometer came from,
and
emails back and forth several times to Fluke, I found out the following:
Method 1)
For each thermocouple, clip the tiny thermocouple from the end of the
wires
provided by Fluke, split the ends of the two wires apart, strip
insulation
from the end of each wire and attach the wires to the heavy duty
thermocouple terminal block.
Quick, simple, and no additional cost. The downside is that the wires
are
only 3 ft. long, so your shiny new meter is going to have to live right
next
to the kiln just to have enough wire to reach two different probe
locations.
Also, the thermocouples supplied by Fluke could be used as a reference
to
check the condition of your heavy duty thermocouples. Once they have
been
clipped off, that is no longer an option.
Method 2)
Fluke sells plugs with screw terminals, Model 80CK-M. Cost is US$11.00
for a
set of two plugs. Fluke tells me that you can use 20 or 22 gauge type K
thermocouple wire in lengths up to 50 ft. (and possibly much more) to
connect the thermocouples to the pyrometer. I have no idea what is
special
about "type K thermocouple wire", but it costs US$1.25 per foot. So for
a
pretty modest cost you can have your pyrometer located in a safe place
where
it is easy to see.
...
Bruce Girrell on thu 1 jan 04
>I'm thinking length of leads need to be taken into account,
No, that was one of the things that I was trying to pass on. For an analog
pyrometer, the lead length matters because the resistance of the leads
relative to the meter resistance cannot be ignored. But with a (properly
designed) digital pyrometer the lead length can be ignored. This is directly
from Fluke.
>Also, those wires have to be of the same metals
>as the thermocouple, hence K thermocouple-K wires.
Ah, that's it. I hadn't thought about creating two additional thermocouples
where the wires join the thermocouple.
Thanks.
Bruce "learn something new every day" Girrell
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