Chris Clyburn on sat 10 jan 04
I am planning this trimester to try and fromulate either a cone 6 porcelian
or white porcelanious stoneware. I already have Ron's book, "Mastering Cone
Six Glazes" so when I have my clay body developed I can fromulate glazes to
match its property. My question is, does anybody know if there is a book out
there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over a
broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
certain temps? I want to shoot for 10-12% shringk and >2% water absortion. I
have looked for about two months now but I haven't run across any in-print
books that cover this kind of territory and I need to get started soon. Any
help would be appreciated. I don't care if the book has recipes except for
comparison of properties and balance since I want to start from scratch on
the formulation.
Thanks,
Chris Clyburn
Earl Krueger on sat 10 jan 04
Chris,
"Ceramic Technology for Potters and Sculptors"
Yvonne Hutchinson Cuff
ISBN: 0-8122-1377-7
Published 1996
Amazon.com $19.95
"Chapter 9: Clay bodies for specific purposes using dry raw materials"
You won't find any recipes here. Instead you will be given theory, in
terms potters can understand, and methods and procedures for developing
your own formulas for clay bodies and glazes. When you are done you
will know WHY the formula is what it is.
This book is obviously the result of a Masters or PHD thesis and is
written for people like you who have an interest in the science behind
clay and glazes but are not into the heavy-duty chemistry and physics
(like, with all due respect, a certain gentleman we know from
Australia).
Much of the book is formatted as explanation followed by exercises that
can be performed by most potters in their studio. More complicated
theory is identified in "Advanced Section" material.
I got a lot out of the book, and still refer to it quite often, but
found it confused me a little to begin with since it doesn't stress
enough the variable and impure nature of the materials we use. Once I
understood this then the knowledge it gave me became more useful. I
quite often see questions posted to Clayart for which the answers could
be found in this book.
If I were teaching pottery at a collegiate level this book would be
required reading.
And, as any college student will know, you can't beat the price!
Oh, yea. I don't have any economic or personal interest in the sale of
this book other than the knowledge that potters would gain by reading
it.
Earl...
Bothell, WA, USA
wayneinkeywest on sat 10 jan 04
Chris:
I just happened to be leafing through a copy of "Glaze Projects" "A
formulary of leadless glazes" by Richard Behrens, and notice that on pages
43 and 44 are recipes for white, pink black and other clay bodies firing at
cone 6, plus a virtual "plethora" of glazes for those bodies.
If you can open Adobe pdf files, (Acrobat Reader...free) I would be happy to
scan and send you those pages.
Let me know.
Wayne Seidl
> I am planning this trimester to try and fromulate either a cone 6
porcelian
> or white porcelanious stoneware. I already have Ron's book, "Mastering
Cone
> Six Glazes" so when I have my clay body developed I can fromulate glazes
to
> match its property. My question is, does anybody know if there is a book
out
> there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over a
> broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
> certain temps? I want to shoot for 10-12% shringk and >2% water absortion.
I
> have looked for about two months now but I haven't run across any in-print
> books that cover this kind of territory and I need to get started soon.
Any
> help would be appreciated. I don't care if the book has recipes except for
> comparison of properties and balance since I want to start from scratch on
> the formulation.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Clyburn
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
piedpotterhamelin@COMCAST.NET on sat 10 jan 04
Hi.
Perhaps you may have to work backwards. If you have the recipes, blend and test them. Then extract the formulas and create a comparison chart. Update the individual clay body components information/formulas by contacting the manufacturer. Some suppliers have old information on file.
Good luck
Rick
--
"Many a wiser men than I hath
gone to pot." 1649
> Chris:
> I just happened to be leafing through a copy of "Glaze Projects" "A
> formulary of leadless glazes" by Richard Behrens, and notice that on pages
> 43 and 44 are recipes for white, pink black and other clay bodies firing at
> cone 6, plus a virtual "plethora" of glazes for those bodies.
> If you can open Adobe pdf files, (Acrobat Reader...free) I would be happy to
> scan and send you those pages.
>
> Let me know.
>
> Wayne Seidl
>
> > I am planning this trimester to try and fromulate either a cone 6
> porcelian
> > or white porcelanious stoneware. I already have Ron's book, "Mastering
> Cone
> > Six Glazes" so when I have my clay body developed I can fromulate glazes
> to
> > match its property. My question is, does anybody know if there is a book
> out
> > there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over a
> > broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
> > certain temps? I want to shoot for 10-12% shringk and >2% water absortion.
> I
> > have looked for about two months now but I haven't run across any in-print
> > books that cover this kind of territory and I need to get started soon.
> Any
> > help would be appreciated. I don't care if the book has recipes except for
> > comparison of properties and balance since I want to start from scratch on
> > the formulation.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris Clyburn
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
iandol on sun 11 jan 04
Dear Chris Clyburn,=20
My immediate reaction was " that one hasn't been printed yet" but then I =
relented.
Yvonne Hutchinson Cuffs Book, " Ceramic Technology for Potters and =
Sculptors" ISBN 0-8122-1377-7 is the most recent.
Daniel Rhodes, "Clay and Glazes for the Potter" ISBN 0-273-00218-X will =
keep you on the right tracks.
Michael Cardew, "Pioneer Pottery" ISBN 0713659459 laid the =
foundations of clay technology that the others now use.
Harry Davis, "The Potter's Alternative" ISBN 0801980062 has a good =
chapter on making test pieces.
Have fun !!!
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australi
Ron Roy on sun 11 jan 04
Hi Chris,
Wish I had the time to help more with this but I don't.
Porcelain at cone 6 - try combinations of Neph Sy and spar - 25% - more
Neph sy than spar. Add 0.2 % Epsom salts disolved in H2O to stop the Neph
Sy from defloccing it.
You can use talc (5%) and/or Neph Sy and spar in the white bodies, use spar
and/or Neph Sy to help melt the darker bodies.
Your targets are OK - maybe 11.5 to 12.5 over all shrinkage if the clay is
to be used right away. 2% ABS for stoneware is fine - try for 0% for the
porc.
I'll be back on the 25th - you have some results then and I can help more then.
RR
>I am planning this trimester to try and fromulate either a cone 6 porcelian
>or white porcelanious stoneware. I already have Ron's book, "Mastering Cone
>Six Glazes" so when I have my clay body developed I can fromulate glazes to
>match its property. My question is, does anybody know if there is a book out
>there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over a
>broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
>certain temps? I want to shoot for 10-12% shringk and >2% water absortion. I
>have looked for about two months now but I haven't run across any in-print
>books that cover this kind of territory and I need to get started soon. Any
>help would be appreciated. I don't care if the book has recipes except for
>comparison of properties and balance since I want to start from scratch on
>the formulation.
>
>Thanks,
>Chris Clyburn
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
David Beumee on sun 11 jan 04
Chris Clyburn wrote:
My question is, does anybody know if there is a book out
> there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over a
> broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
> certain temps?
There's lots of clay body recipes of all types to choose from in Val
Cushing's Ceramics Guide Book. The book is available from:
Val Cushing
RR1 Box 236
1497 Waterwells Road
Alfred Station, NY 14803
I remember the cost at around $25
David Beumee
Earth Alchemy Pottery
Lafayette, CO
> I am planning this trimester to try and fromulate either a cone 6 porcelian
> or white porcelanious stoneware. I already have Ron's book, "Mastering Cone
> Six Glazes" so when I have my clay body developed I can fromulate glazes to
> match its property. My question is, does anybody know if there is a book out
> there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over a
> broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
> certain temps? I want to shoot for 10-12% shringk and >2% water absortion. I
> have looked for about two months now but I haven't run across any in-print
> books that cover this kind of territory and I need to get started soon. Any
> help would be appreciated. I don't care if the book has recipes except for
> comparison of properties and balance since I want to start from scratch on
> the formulation.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Clyburn
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Krueger on mon 12 jan 04
On Monday, Jan 12, 2004, at 06:45 US/Pacific, Antoinette Badenhorst
wrote:
> A friend uses a commercial clay body, but experiences trouble with
> short
> clay if she remixes her trimmings. ... What could cause that?
Antoinette,
I have noticed that if I make a slurry of clay trimmings and then dry
it out on a porous mexican paver tile a fuzz of white crystals will
grow on the edge of the tile as it dries. Since we don't have hard
water with lots of dissolved minerals here in the Northwest I am
convinced these crystals come from some soluble component in the clay
body. I assume something like epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) has
been added to control the degree of flocculation and plasticity.
Not too long ago, Ron Roy made a strong statement on Clayart that we
should dry our recycled clay by allowing the excess water to evaporate,
as opposed to letting it soak into a porous body like plaster. Since I
understand that Ron has responsibility for formulation of some
commercial clay bodies I take his statement to confirm my assumption.
Another possibility would be that the water that your friend uses to
re-hydrate the trimmings might contain enough dissolved minerals to
alter the degree of flocculation of the clay. An interesting test
would be to make up a batch of the trimmings with distilled water from
the grocery store to see if there was any difference compared with
using tap water. If your friend should do this test, please let us
know the results.
Earl...
Bothell, WA, USA
iandol on mon 12 jan 04
<written for people like you who have an interest in the science behind =
clay and glazes but are not into the heavy-duty chemistry and physics =
(like, with all due respect, a certain gentleman we know from =
Australia).>>
Dear Earl Krueger,
I agree. But the author of that tome might have considered her own depth =
of knowledge and cross checked some of the information before committing =
her ideas to print.
Questionable authoritative statements in many past published books pass =
into our vernacular as inviolable truth because they were not tested or =
reviewed before publication. Then the task to correct them becomes =
insurmountable because of the pervasive nature of "everyone knowing =
because Mr. Qyzxyk said or wrote it so" Our use of the term "Eutectic" =
is a good example. What is said of it may or may not be true depending =
on the context. But that is not make clear in the literature popular =
among Clay Artists.
Thank you for the accolade, but should you wish to continue using that =
term in my favour I would prefer a capital "g", having been Gazetted as =
"An Officer and..."
Best regards.
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Antoinette Badenhorst on mon 12 jan 04
I am working on the same thing for a while now. "Clay and Glazes for the
potter" Daniel Rhodes gives some broad guidelines which I found useful.
I tried Neph. Sye. before, but I wonder if it is possible to get away
from that as a flux at all without going too expensive. Ron, I wonder if
the Neph. Sye/epsomsalt combination will last over time and also if it
will remix well(the trimmings) or is it possible that it will work out?
(hope my question is clear enough) Also will it stretch from ^6-^10? The
one time that I made a porcelain batch with Neph sye, the clay was so
lifeless, I hated it.
Val Cushing also has a few of these recipes on the net.
http://www.studiopotter.org/articles/?art=art0009
I ran into another interesting clay observation this past week. A
friend uses a commercial clay body, but experiences trouble with short
clay if she remixes her trimmings. It is a fairly smooth clay body (Lynn
maybe you can say more) It was strange to me is that she had the clay
resting for over a month and it was still short. What could cause that?
Antoinette Badenhorst(the dummy, messing with scientific stuff)
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS
38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ron Roy
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 11:30 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Clay Body Formulation
Hi Chris,
Wish I had the time to help more with this but I don't.
Porcelain at cone 6 - try combinations of Neph Sy and spar - 25% - more
Neph sy than spar. Add 0.2 % Epsom salts disolved in H2O to stop the
Neph
Sy from defloccing it.
You can use talc (5%) and/or Neph Sy and spar in the white bodies, use
spar
and/or Neph Sy to help melt the darker bodies.
Your targets are OK - maybe 11.5 to 12.5 over all shrinkage if the clay
is
to be used right away. 2% ABS for stoneware is fine - try for 0% for the
porc.
I'll be back on the 25th - you have some results then and I can help
more then.
RR
>I am planning this trimester to try and fromulate either a cone 6
porcelian
>or white porcelanious stoneware. I already have Ron's book, "Mastering
Cone
>Six Glazes" so when I have my clay body developed I can fromulate
glazes to
>match its property. My question is, does anybody know if there is a
book out
>there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over
a
>broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
>certain temps? I want to shoot for 10-12% shringk and >2% water
absortion. I
>have looked for about two months now but I haven't run across any
in-print
>books that cover this kind of territory and I need to get started soon.
Any
>help would be appreciated. I don't care if the book has recipes except
for
>comparison of properties and balance since I want to start from scratch
on
>the formulation.
>
>Thanks,
>Chris Clyburn
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Hansen on mon 12 jan 04
There is lots of information at
www.ceramicmaterials.info. Just search for
\"clay formulation\" in the articles area.
You can find detailed information on tons
of materials used to make bodies.
If you have a serial number for INSIGHT, 4SIGHT,
or Magic of Fire you can search for \"clay\" in
the physical testing area.
We are working on dynamic generation of ebooks
from the site and have a 10mb Palm version working
well (that is the size of about 20 paper textbooks).
Alot of new articles on formulation and
testing of clay bodies are coming.
-------8<--------
Chris Clyburn wrote:
> My question is, does anybody know if there is a book out
> there on formulating clay bodies that cover clay body formulation over a
> broad firing range so I can get some idea what makes a clay vitrify at
> certain temps?
-------
===============
Tony Hansen, http://digitalfire.com
Personal Contact Page: http://digitalfire.com/services/contact.php
Calculation/Database Software for Ceramic Industry
Andrew Sugden on tue 13 jan 04
A very useful book that serves as a good introduction to the raw materials
& making technqiues(and includes generic recipes for earthenware, bone
china, various porcelain etc)is:
Whitewares: Production, testing & Quality Control
Ryan W., & Radford C.
Pergamon Press. 1986.
At around =A330 the price isn't too bad for a ceramics book.
Kind regards,
Andrew
Eleanor on wed 14 jan 04
Earl Krueger wrote:
>
>............. if I make a slurry of clay trimmings and then dry
>it out on a porous mexican paver tile a fuzz of white crystals will
>grow on the edge of the tile as it dries.
>
>.........Ron Roy made a strong statement on Clayart that we
>should dry our recycled clay by allowing the excess water to evaporate,
>as opposed to letting it soak into a porous body like plaster.
>
>....... water........ to
>re-hydrate the trimmings might contain enough dissolved minerals to
>alter the degree of flocculation of the clay.
This is hardly scientific, but it works for me:
I put trimmings into an old-fashioned enameled basin, let them dry,
break them down a little with my hands and add very slippy throwing
water, making sure to scrape the bottom of the water bowl where stuff
has settled. I don't add tap water at this point.
Very often the white fuzz appears; when the clay in the bowl has
dried out enough, I scrape it out, along with the fuzz, onto my
wedging surface (a concrete paver), and wedge it a lot.
I use Tucker's ^6 smooth white (Ron Roy supervises Tucker's
formulations), which is nice for throwing (for me) and tap water
which comes from wells, is soft and has no additives, not even
fluorides. The resulting recycled clay is sometimes even better for
throwing than the original out of the box.
Don't people all over the world use whatever water is available to
them? Some of that water is really "hard" but they are not
complaining.
It looks like the variable here is the drying surface.
Eleanor Kohler
Centerport, NY ---turning into an icicle
Chris Clyburn on fri 30 jan 04
Well, after a lot of research and study, I have decided to embark on the
journey of writing a book. In my research on clay body formulation, I found
that compared to glaze formulation, there is a surprising lack of detailed
information regarding creating clay bodies and adjusting them to suit your
needs. Definitely nothing like "Mastering Cone 6 Glazes" by Ron and John.
So it looks like I will be spending the next 4-5 years developing this tome.
I plan to include info on all the major chemicals involved including
chemical formulas, how to adjust the body up and down the cone range,
coloring, translucency if working with porcelain, vitrification, plasticity,
and what properties would be best for what style of work and how to reach
for those properties.
If anybody has good reference information in books or articles to assist,
or has information they think they can contribute, or have a lot of
experience in this area and want to contribute, please e-mail me off list.
I've never written a book before so I am a little anxious but also excited.
Wish me luck, I'm probably gonna need it :-)
Chris Clyburn,
Looking foward to several years of test, write, read, read more, test again,
rewrite, ad nauseum, hopefully not ad infinitum LOL
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