Snail Scott on wed 21 jan 04
At 12:58 PM 1/21/04 -0500, you wrote:
>4) Are engobes applied before or after bisquing??
It depends entirely on the recipe. You can design
an engobe to go on wet clay, leather-hard, dry,
bisque - the gamut.
Are looking at an existing recipe and wondering
what it would be appropriate for? As a general
rule of thumb, look at the raw (uncalcined) clay
content. If it's over 50%, use it on damp clay.
Around 35%, it's OK on dry clay. Less than 20%,
put it on bisque. These numbers are only very
approximate, though, and should serve merely as a
rough guide. Make tests before applying unknown
substances to precious objects. (The same policy
might well be advised for anyone who responds
to those 'male enhancement lotion' spams!) ;)
-Snail
Joe Coniglio on wed 21 jan 04
Hi--
I thought I'd apply the interior of a casserole with a rich albany slip and
also the inside of the lid.
------
1) Do I apply it while it is still greenware?
2) Or do I bisque it first?
3) I may brush the exterior glaze color (after the bisque) and then dip
the entire thing in a clear glaze.
4) Are engobes applied before or after bisquing??
Thanks,
Joe Coniglio
Joe Coniglio on thu 22 jan 04
I have a casserole piece 2-day damp leather slab heading into leather
and holding.
I have Arroyo slip and substituted sold to be by Laguna.
I've spiked it with 1% "spanish" red iron oxide.
Don't know the slips overall composition.
From what I gather there is no rule of thumb here. Will go ahead and
brush it up on the interior while leather. Might even make enough of it
to pour instead of brush on the interior.
Thanks for writing. Joe
Mildred Herot on mon 26 jan 04
Hi Joe: That's an interesting comment but I've never had any trouble
putting a slip on leather hard pots. Actually what I like to do is put a
glaze on leather hard, bisque it and then apply a different glaze over it.
I use a Val Ccushing white glaze which interacts with the glaze that's
alreaady on and the two mingle together. This is successful for me with
Floating Blue, a turquoise and a brown where I use Alberta Slip (now that I
can't get Albany). Perhaps I shouldn't have read your comment - maybe
ignorance is really bliss.......Mildred Herot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Coniglio"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Applying Albany Slip
> To any of you who likes to paint or pour slips on leather hard, please
> beware, and be careful leather has a high moisture absorption rate
> and can severely disrupt that normal slow drying process that was
> taking place. I'd say apply the slip to something freshly wet, or wait to
> apply mixture after piece has gone through a bisque fire.
>
> I worked on a slab piece, very nicely joined, have years of experience
> bonding slabs with seamless structural integ. Poured some slip into
> one of the vessels saturday and watched in pull apart before my eyes!!
>
> I was so astounded that "I got bested" , that I wasn't angry or
> disappointed and didn't trash the piece either:
>
> Though I was ready to discard the piece, I had nothing to loss so I
> then realized that by spraying the outer surface with water, the piece
> slowly closed shut again. Before this happened I used some thinned
> down clay body and put it in the cracks and sprayed the outside and
> watched the piece close tight as a drum extruding the excess through
> the cracks.
>
> I'm convinced the piece has been damaged but it shows no signs of it.
>
> Will put it through bisque and give it a good glaze but probably won't
> ever use in the oven. It's an extremely handsome piece with a pulled
> handle on the lid and two pulled side handles on the body.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Vince Pitelka on mon 26 jan 04
> To any of you who likes to paint or pour slips on leather hard, please
> beware, and be careful leather has a high moisture absorption rate
> and can severely disrupt that normal slow drying process that was
> taking place. I'd say apply the slip to something freshly wet, or wait to
> apply mixture after piece has gone through a bisque fire.
Joe -
I can see how this would happen if you pour slip over a leather-hard piece,
especially if the slip is fairly thick - that's just too much moisture
introduced. But leather hard is the ideal stage for brushing on slip. That
is when the slip SHOULD be applied. We do this all the time at the Craft
Center, and I have done extensive slip decoration on both thrown and
handbuilt wares, always at the leather-hard stage. You cannot apply a
normal slip to bone dry or bisque-fired wares. You can mix an engobe, which
has more non-plastic ingredients, especially formulated to stay on bone-dry
or bisque-fired wares.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Joe Coniglio on mon 26 jan 04
To any of you who likes to paint or pour slips on leather hard, please
beware, and be careful leather has a high moisture absorption rate
and can severely disrupt that normal slow drying process that was
taking place. I'd say apply the slip to something freshly wet, or wait to
apply mixture after piece has gone through a bisque fire.
I worked on a slab piece, very nicely joined, have years of experience
bonding slabs with seamless structural integ. Poured some slip into
one of the vessels saturday and watched in pull apart before my eyes!!
I was so astounded that "I got bested" , that I wasn't angry or
disappointed and didn't trash the piece either:
Though I was ready to discard the piece, I had nothing to loss so I
then realized that by spraying the outer surface with water, the piece
slowly closed shut again. Before this happened I used some thinned
down clay body and put it in the cracks and sprayed the outside and
watched the piece close tight as a drum extruding the excess through
the cracks.
I'm convinced the piece has been damaged but it shows no signs of it.
Will put it through bisque and give it a good glaze but probably won't
ever use in the oven. It's an extremely handsome piece with a pulled
handle on the lid and two pulled side handles on the body.
Joe Coniglio on tue 27 jan 04
Dear Mildred thanks for writing me back. Ignorance is bliss I know.
There are so many things I'd rather not know too, but with much
kindness I assure you that we can't make informed decisions in this
world without information. It's a burden at times but we strive to make
results.
I think a glaze application on leather before bisque is a novel idea.
If you throw I doubt this will apply to you:
The radical distortion came on my leather piece probably going back
to predominately two reasons, 1) it was slab built and had fused
seams, though "slipped and scored" and "scored and slipped" the
daylights out of and till the cows come home etc! 2) I poured it in and
didn't brush it, "she was" also in day 3 of covered leather probably well
past mid-point in leather.
On a case by case basis, I'm going to continue to apply to leather. I
enjoy pre-empting the surface with slips and pigments
Joe Coniglio on tue 27 jan 04
Dear Vince,
Your comments are right on. I use the word slips pretty liberally out
there and I'm sure today engobe does escape most adherents. I walk
that fine line. The slip mix was too thick--bingo! Thank god that I don't
leave well enough alone.
Most of my slips are just tricked out as engobes. I do this very simply.
First Half
Part A
I usually use a base of the clay body I'm using for fit and familarity.
(and it's an ample base I don't have to buy)--Taken from shavings,
mixed with rice vinegar/ water and seived through a couple of meshes
to remove most sand and grog (stoneware), now it's like melted
chocolate. Will add a small percentage of pigment usually oxide,
Part B
Will add about 50% albany, alberta or etc slip and make sure the
whole thing is liquid enough to be brushable.
Second Half
Part A
Then I'll use a totally premixed glaze, normally the color I'm going to be
using and go approx 50/50. --And brush it on to leather or bisque.
----
My days of pouring on leather as of last weekend are over.
----
All components are in my cone 10 range and stay on the pot.
I know you chemists and purists have fled by now. Sorry. I do
document and label what I'm using.
Mary White on tue 27 jan 04
Hi Mildred--
I'm interesting in trying this, can you tell me which Cushing glaze
you are using? I have the book but haven't tried any of the recipes
yet.
Mary White
Madeira Park, British Columbia
>Hi Joe: That's an interesting comment but I've never had any trouble
>putting a slip on leather hard pots. Actually what I like to do is put a
>glaze on leather hard, bisque it and then apply a different glaze over it.
>I use a Val Ccushing white glaze which interacts with the glaze that's
>alreaady on and the two mingle together. This is successful for me with
>Floating Blue, a turquoise and a brown where I use Alberta Slip (now that I
>can't get Albany). Perhaps I shouldn't have read your comment - maybe
>ignorance is really bliss.......Mildred Herot
>
Mildred Herot on tue 27 jan 04
Hello Mary: I didn't get the Ccushing glaze from his book but picked it up
from a Ceramics Monthly from someone who was using it but was not happy with
it's running. I tried it because I thought the idea of running together
would be nice. What I do is brush on one coat of glaze and then stipple on
another. After the bisque, I pour the interior and spray on the outside in
the white. The glaze is as follows:
Whiting 20
Frit 3134 25
Neph.Syn. 25
EPK 15
Flint 15
Superpax 10
If you try this, let me know how it works for you.......Mildred Herot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary White"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Applying Albany Slip
> Hi Mildred--
>
> I'm interesting in trying this, can you tell me which Cushing glaze
> you are using? I have the book but haven't tried any of the recipes
> yet.
>
>
> Mary White
> Madeira Park, British Columbia
>
>
> >Hi Joe: That's an interesting comment but I've never had any trouble
> >putting a slip on leather hard pots. Actually what I like to do is put a
> >glaze on leather hard, bisque it and then apply a different glaze over
it.
> >I use a Val Ccushing white glaze which interacts with the glaze that's
> >alreaady on and the two mingle together. This is successful for me with
> >Floating Blue, a turquoise and a brown where I use Alberta Slip (now that
I
> >can't get Albany). Perhaps I shouldn't have read your comment - maybe
> >ignorance is really bliss.......Mildred Herot
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Snail Scott on thu 29 jan 04
At 09:34 AM 1/29/04 +0000, May wrote:
>I use a terra cotta clay as a slip, bisqued. Then I wash a thin transparent
>glaze to get a sheen...
>I wonder if this is what they called slip glaze.
The term 'slip glaze' refers to the high clay
content of the glaze, not its gloss level. They
are true glazes, however, as they are actually
vitrified at whatever temperature they are used
at, unlike a slip or engobe. Depending on its
composition, it could be matte or glossy, but
still definitely a glaze with all the properties
typically associated with glazes. Naturally,
almost any glaze could be underfired to the
point where the outcome couldn't really be
considered a glaze, but rather an engobe or
slip. That's not what is meant by the term
'slip glaze', though.
-Snail
May Luk on thu 29 jan 04
Hi Joe;
Do you still glaze on top of it after you bisqued?
I use a terra cotta clay as a slip, bisqued. Then I wash a thin transparent
glaze to get a sheen but keeping the grogged quality of the slip [ firing to
cone 7+] Lately, I've been think of doing it all in one go. And I thought of
doing it just like your method.
I wonder if this is what they called slip glaze.
Thanks
May
London, UK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From Joe Coniglio:---
First Half
Part A
I usually use a base of the clay body I'm using for fit and familarity.
(and it's an ample base I don't have to buy)--Taken from shavings,
mixed with rice vinegar/ water and seived through a couple of meshes
to remove most sand and grog (stoneware), now it's like melted
chocolate. Will add a small percentage of pigment usually oxide,
Part B
Will add about 50% albany, alberta or etc slip and make sure the
whole thing is liquid enough to be brushable.
Second Half
Part A
Then I'll use a totally premixed glaze, normally the color I'm going to be
using and go approx 50/50. --And brush it on to leather or bisque.
| |
|
