Vince Pitelka on sat 31 jan 04
> A friend has asked me to find out about applying porcelain to an engine
> mainifold. Anybody have any experience putting porcelain on metal?
Pat -
It isn't really porcelain. That is a misnomer. It is just fired enamel -
ceramic materials, but formulated to be fired on metal, and fired to a much
lower temperature than any porcelain. You need to talk to metalsmiths who
are familiar with the process of applying fired enamels on metal. There are
companies that do this. I remember a sculptor named Maris Benson at
Humboldt State University back in the 1970s who made large fabricated steel
sculptures and sent them off to some company in the SF Bay Area to have them
coated and fired. The end results were brilliant red or orange, incredibly
saturated colors.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
william schran on sat 31 jan 04
Pat wrote:>A friend has asked me to find out about applying porcelain
to an engine
mainifold. Anybody have any experience putting porcelain on metal?<
Perhaps your friend is thinking of porcelain enamel, that is a heat set paint.
Bill
wehrman on sat 31 jan 04
A friend has asked me to find out about applying porcelain to an engine
mainifold. Anybody have any experience putting porcelain on metal?
Thanks in advance
Pat Wehrman
www.dlpg.com
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sun 1 feb 04
Dear Pat Wehrman,
Even if you fired the clay to the steel and it adheres and did not
spall during processing I think differential thermal expansion
between the two materials would cause serious problems.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Kathy Forer on sun 1 feb 04
On Jan 31, 2004, at 8:26 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> A friend has asked me to find out about applying porcelain to an
>> engine
>> mainifold. Anybody have any experience putting porcelain on metal?
>
> Pat -
> It isn't really porcelain. That is a misnomer. It is just fired
> enamel -
> ceramic materials, but formulated to be fired on metal, and fired to a
> much
> lower temperature than any porcelain. You need to talk to metalsmiths
> who
> are familiar with the process of applying fired enamels on metal.
> There are
> companies that do this. I remember a sculptor named Maris Benson at
> Humboldt State University back in the 1970s who made large fabricated
> steel
> sculptures and sent them off to some company in the SF Bay Area to
> have them
> coated and fired. The end results were brilliant red or orange,
> incredibly
> saturated colors.
Generally metal enameling consists of powdered frits sprinkled onto
flux-coated metal and low-fired. Other techniques involve applying
porcelain slip to electrode-charged metal. The industry is known as the
"Porcelain Enamel Industry."
Kathy
Kathy Forer
http://kforer.com
http://foreverink.com
Snail Scott on sun 1 feb 04
At 02:00 PM 1/31/04 -0700, you wrote:
>A friend has asked me to find out about applying porcelain to an engine
>mainifold. Anybody have any experience putting porcelain on metal?
>
I think they meant 'porcelain enamel', not
actual clay. (Like on a cast-iron bathtub.)
-Snail
Cindi Anderson on sun 1 feb 04
What about porcelain on steel sinks. I was told they keep the metal in a
bath so it didn't melt while the porcelain was fired on. Is this true?
Cindi
Fremont, CA
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 1 feb 04
Hi Vince, all...
Yes, or too, it makes a difference as you know, if the
intention is for some out-door sculptural thing, (as
'powdercoating' would answer well enough for, and is also
'baked' on,) or, a durably pleasant looking Exhaust Manifold
for an Engine ( for which 'powdercoating' would not answer
well at all).
Misnomer that it is, the term 'Porcelainized' was in fact
favored by the various Automobile Manufacturers in their
literature representing the particulars of their Cars
Engines auxillaries, when refering to the enamalled Exhaust
Manifolds...and the term 'enamelled' tended then to mean
'Painted' or Japanned...
Typically too, the various 'Badges' as often appeared on the
Radiator's top front, or as well on the Side Mount or Rear
Mount Spare Tire cover's tops and Luggage Rack top backmost
center, and sometimes also on the Rear Lamp's tops or
stantcheons, were of Cloissene ( sp?) being, the fused
colored Glaze-Glass of sorts in boarders and backing of
Copper...having whatever name or emblem or details and
colors as may be...
Best wishes,
Phil
lasvegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> > A friend has asked me to find out about applying
porcelain to an engine
> > mainifold. Anybody have any experience putting
porcelain on metal?
>
> Pat -
> It isn't really porcelain. That is a misnomer. It is
just fired enamel -
> ceramic materials, but formulated to be fired on metal,
and fired to a much
> lower temperature than any porcelain. You need to talk to
metalsmiths who
> are familiar with the process of applying fired enamels on
metal. There are
> companies that do this. I remember a sculptor named Maris
Benson at
> Humboldt State University back in the 1970s who made large
fabricated steel
> sculptures and sent them off to some company in the SF Bay
Area to have them
> coated and fired. The end results were brilliant red or
orange, incredibly
> saturated colors.
> - Vince
Vince Pitelka on sun 1 feb 04
> Generally metal enameling consists of powdered frits sprinkled onto
> flux-coated metal and low-fired. Other techniques involve applying
> porcelain slip to electrode-charged metal. The industry is known as the
> "Porcelain Enamel Industry."
Kathy -
Thanks for that. Sorry to be such a stickler regarding terminology, but
this constitutes careless use of the word "porcelain" when it was
appropriated by industray to refer to fired enamel on metal. It would be
impossible to fire true porcelain slip onto metal because of the
temperatures involved. The metal wouldn't survive. What they are actually
applying to the metal is an enamel glaze, and it is not really anywhere
close to a porcelain in composition or behavior.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on sun 1 feb 04
Phil -
Another great example of fired enamel on metal is all those wonderful old
road signs and advertising signs. You still see a few around here and
there. You can always tell the true fired enamel signs, because when some
redneck yayhoo uses them for target practice, you get an explosion of glass
slivers on the other side.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on sun 1 feb 04
> Perhaps your friend is thinking of porcelain enamel, that is a heat set
paint.
Bill -
It is important to clarify this. When people refer to a traditional baked
enamel finish or porcelain finish on metal, they are referring to a fired
enamel finish, just like low-fire enamels on ceramics. It is sometimes
referred to as "enameling," but there is no connection to enamel paint from
a can, and it is not a heat-set paint finish. The "porcelain on metal"
process referred to in the original post is a ceramic process, but since it
is done on metal, the people who know about it are the metalsmiths. In
metals programs all over the country you find workshops and classes in
enameling on metal, and that is the same process. Cloisonne enamel is a
well-known example of fired enamel on metal.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 1 feb 04
Hi Cindi,
As Vince and Kathy mentioned, and it is true, the term
Porcelain in this context is a figurative term for a fused,
baked-on, or fired Enamel.
My understanding, is that the Sinks, Tubs, Stoves, and other
items, sometimes Pots and Pans and Skillets and may other
things as were Cast Iron, being rigorously cleaned in the
raw, were covered in a flux and
glaze (often sprayed on,) as adhered to them and as were
then fired to some Heat as fused the
Enamel to the Iron, but that this was not done in a
'bath'...
In lighter gauge sheet Steels also, in the fired 'Enamel'
way of faith, were a variety of Appliances such as
Refridgerators and sheet-metal Cooking and Heating Stoves
and so on, as well as Refridgerator trays, lidded trays,
Lamp Shades and endless Hospital and Institutional items,
and many inexpensive utensiles such as Coffee and Tea Pots,
Bowls, Collanders, Plates and Cups and Baking Pans and Pots
and Pans and Skillets and...whether for Camping, for various
other kinds of Expeditions, or for the Home.
In general, years ago, it was a popular method for hygenic,
durable, waterproof, easily cleaned, and attractive White or
Colored surfaces for many things. even if it may leach
something regretable into one's leftovers if allowed to do
so in the 'fridge overnight.
Various Military Canteens as well, if memory serve...
Anyway...
After I move someday, I think I will get into the
'porcelainizing' of Exhaust Manifolds...
It would be fun to have the knack of that for the Kiln as
well as my various Pots...
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindi Anderson"
> What about porcelain on steel sinks. I was told they keep
the metal in a
> bath so it didn't melt while the porcelain was fired on.
Is this true?
>
> Cindi
> Fremont, CA
sdr on sun 1 feb 04
Cindi asked:
> What about porcelain on steel sinks. I was told they keep the metal in a
> bath so it didn't melt while the porcelain was fired on. Is this true?
The main method that I know of for applying a porcelain finish to
a castiron tub, etc., is sprinkling the DRY glaze on to the hot-from-
the-fire object. The tub is held up and rotated by tongs/machine.
I've seen tubs done in this way, but not sinks. The
people who apply the glaze are masters at it, even to varying the thickness
of the glaze to make it heavier where the tub gets most wear.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Bruce Girrell on mon 2 feb 04
Vince P. wrote:
> The "porcelain on metal" process referred to in the original post
> is a ceramic process, but since it is done on metal,
> the people who know about it are the metalsmiths.
If you examine the early issues of Ceramics Monthly you will see that there
was a good bit of interest in metal enameling in the ceramics community at
that time. I guess that in the past 50 years we have collectively decided
that we aren't all that interested after all.
Bruce Girrell
inundated in snowy northern Michigan
In shop class (would have been about 1965) I beat the snot out of a poor
undeserving disk of copper to form it into something of a bowl shape. The
anvil in this case was a block of lead. I work hardened the first one from
so much pounding that it cracked. Copper is one of the most ductile metals
in the world so work hardening to that extent requires some dedicated
pounding. The second disk survived. I remember spraying it with tragacanth
gum and applying a powdered glaze material. I had not cleaned the copper
properly, so the first glaze layer didn't totally fuse to the copper. I
think I fired that thing three times. There was so much glaze on it that
after the final firing there was a pool of glaze in the bottom. I think my
parents may have obligingly used it for an ashtray for a while.
John Hesselberth on mon 2 feb 04
On Sunday, February 1, 2004, at 08:20 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> What they are actually
> applying to the metal is an enamel glaze, and it is not really anywhere
> close to a porcelain in composition or behavior.
Anyone interested in the composition of these enamels can find it in
Eppler and Eppler, "Glaze and Glass Coatings". They are typically
fired to 780-860 C for 2-7 minutes.
Eppler and Eppler work in mole fractions, but converting into unity
numbers we are more familiar with one he lists that is fired to 805 C
for 4 minutes looks like
Li2O .04
Na2O .55
K2O .04
CaO .29
MgO .01
BaO .07
Al2O3 .15
B2O3 .51
SiO2 1.97
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
william schran on tue 3 feb 04
Vince wrote:> When people refer to a traditional baked
enamel finish or porcelain finish on metal, they are referring to a fired
enamel finish, just like low-fire enamels on ceramics. It is sometimes
referred to as "enameling," but there is no connection to enamel paint from
a can, and it is not a heat-set paint finish.<
Vince - You are correct - I don't know what I was thinking - together
with the fact that I've had some extensive experience doing
cloisonne/enameling, though way in my distant past, I should have
known better. Thanks for setting me straight.
Bill
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