mel jacobson on wed 4 feb 04
remember, tradition does not last forever.
my take is that in another 15 years...potters
will no longer talk of hamada/leech.
it is fading fast. many,many on clayart do not
even have a clue about that tradition. and most do not give a whit.
when i talk of this tradition in workshops that i
am teaching...it gets very little feedback.
`hey mel, teach us to tap center`.
twenty years ago, people wanted the stories and the traditions..
not any more.
technique rules. (and, that is fine with me.)
i have a hundred times the quesitons about gas/electric kilns
than i have about hamada...and i have been to his home, talked with
him...both he and leech. not too many care any more.
and young potters....hamada who? whatever.
`hey, let me show you my donut pot i rakued...i invented the
crawling`. total bs. (not all, many) full of ideas...but, bad ideas.
and, i do not expect my traditions to pass to young potters..they will
find their own...somehow. but, if the half time show of the super bowl
has any influence..we are a dead society.
mel
had a young potter tell me a few months ago...`hey, you use `old time
glazes`, i buy
mine in jars.` whatever.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
John Rodgers on wed 4 feb 04
mel jacobson wrote:
> remember, tradition does not last forever.
>
> had a young potter tell me a few months ago...`hey, you use `old time
> glazes`, i buy
> mine in jars.` whatever.
As society become more and more specialized, we are losing the ability
to keep ourselves independentaly functional. Few people can feed
themselves anymore. They would starve to death before they figured out
what it took to get through a year of food production and storage. I've
friends who only know how to operate their car. If it breaks down, they
cannot fix it. Not even the simplest of things. One person I know had a
broken door knob and had not a clue how to fix it. Cost $50 (minimum 2
hour charge) for labor plus the price of a new door knob - about $14.95.
With a screw driver, a pocket knife and a pair of pliers - very common
tools - the person could have saved $50 for a rainy day. It goes on and on.
I like knowing how to do things. It's my security. I know how to rebuild
my vehicle from front to back, if need be. I can tune it up and keep it
running. I keep all my shop equipment running. I make stuff. Not just
pots. I can build houses. I know how to plow and to plant and to grow
things. I know how to process those things I grow. I know how to work
with my hands and use tools. It is becoming a lost art. And it makes
people vulnerable to unforseen events.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
wayneinkeywest on wed 4 feb 04
Sorry Esteemed Mayor, but I'm throwing in
my $0.02 and saying "horse patties!"
Tradition will not die. There are those of us
who were not of that time, but this one. We
do not know, did not have the opportunity to
meet Leach, Hamada, some of the others.
It doesn't mean that we aren't necessarily
interested in the tradition(s) that they passed
on. We are MORE interested in making sure
that our work can pass the same tests that
theirs did...that the pieces "speak" to others
(they already spoke to us when we made them)
that the forms are durable, the glazes memorable,
that our work might be looked on by future
generations in the way (and spoken of with the
same excitement) that we treat theirs. Some of
us already speak that way of YOU :>) and you're
still here. Tradition does last, but it changes also.
Leach and Hamada brought pottery into the last
century, kept it viable, alive and growing. Took
a different culture's "take" on it and brought it to
their homes, and passed it on. Were
it not for them, where would it be now? Would it
be possible to be talking as we are; globally?
The youngsters will establish their own traditions,
as your generation and mine have done, but it
will be a patina, a veneer if you will, laid
over the traditions handed down to us.
Ignore those ignorant youngsters. If they never learn the
techniques that we all struggle so hard with,
if they think that "buying them in jars" is going
to cut it when they go out and try to make a
living and then get laughed at, let them. They
delude themselves. With age comes
wisdom...or as grandpa used to say
(in german) "too soon we get old, too
late we get smart."
Can't say though, that I disagree with
you about the general mentality of the
audience watching the SuperBowl (no
offense to anyone that did watch it, or
had nothing better to do). _I_didn't miss
it at all, and I got some really nice pots
made that day.
Wayne Seidl
still struggling, still learning,
and glad you're ALL still here to learn from
even if we HAVEN'T met (yet)
> remember, tradition does not last forever.
>
> my take is that in another 15 years...potters
> will no longer talk of hamada/leech.
> it is fading fast. many,many on clayart do not
> even have a clue about that tradition. and most do not give a
whit.
>
> when i talk of this tradition in workshops that i
> am teaching...it gets very little feedback.
> `hey mel, teach us to tap center`.
>
> twenty years ago, people wanted the stories and the traditions..
> not any more.
>
> technique rules. (and, that is fine with me.)
> i have a hundred times the quesitons about gas/electric kilns
> than i have about hamada...and i have been to his home, talked
with
> him...both he and leech. not too many care any more.
> and young potters....hamada who? whatever.
> `hey, let me show you my donut pot i rakued...i invented the
> crawling`. total bs. (not all, many) full of ideas...but, bad
ideas.
> and, i do not expect my traditions to pass to young potters..they
will
> find their own...somehow. but, if the half time show of the super
bowl
> has any influence..we are a dead society.
> mel
> had a young potter tell me a few months ago...`hey, you use `old
time
> glazes`, i buy
> mine in jars.` whatever.
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________
__________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Keisha on wed 4 feb 04
i sure dont know much about that tradition. Maybe it
because I'm so young ha. Ok bye yall....
=====
Keisha Pegues
Mound Bayou, Mississippi, U.S.A.
Peace Be With You
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
Andrew_M_Casto@PROGRESSIVE.COM on wed 4 feb 04
Mel -
I know I'm probably out of place here giving you advice on this topic - but
take it for what it's worth -
I'm sure plenty of young potters don't have an understanding of
Leech/Hamada/Yanagi, but be careful not to stamp a whole generation as
ignorant of the history of the craft. And yes, I too thought the hoopla
surrounding the Superbowl halftime show was a bit frightening, but I don't
think that means we're a "dead society" - perhaps the mainstream today is
pushing the envelope of stupidity, but how is that any different from any
other time in history? It's just that with the past century of pushing,
we're bordering on the rediculous...
Anyhow - as a member of said generation (pushing the old 27 here), younger
ceramic types are not taught the importance of the Leech/Hamada tradition.
This is the natural result of universities becoming the predominant arena
for the sculptural side of the field. You can disagree with that if you
want, but there's no chance that more schools out there are pushing
functional pots than sculpture. I've been part of the university ceramic
community, and in my ceramic history class, the professor laughed at the
Leech tradition with a line that went something like "Leech = Jesus, A
Potter's Book = Bible, Mingei = The Holy Spirit... How do you expect kids
to end up after that kind of education? And that's assuming they have any
at all.
My point is that for one, I think you are being a bit hard on younger
folks. Whether you're harboring bitterness, I don't know or really care. I
know plenty of people my age who mix glazes in buckets from wood ash from
fire places and clay they dug out of the ground. I also know plenty of
students who want to make pots and are alienated in the educational system
without anyone to teach them or show them the rich history of their craft.
Maybe the older potters bucked the educational system when the teaching
jobs got taken, and never passed on this stuff??? Who knows.
For the record - I watched Ron Meyers work a couple years ago, and he spent
the whole time talking about amaco stains. I think they come in jars -
right?
I don't think you can judge the worthiness of someone's art based on where
their materials come from, or if they watched the superbowl or not. I think
all you can do is make your craft and respect that others are trying to
find their own way, no matter how different from yours it might be. If it
frustrates you that kids don't know the tradition you came from, TEACH
THEM. Some of them just might listen.
Andy Casto
mel jacobson
COM> cc:
Sent by: Clayart Subject: hamada/leech tradition
AMICS.ORG>
02/04/04 10:42
AM
Please respond
to Clayart
remember, tradition does not last forever.
my take is that in another 15 years...potters
will no longer talk of hamada/leech.
it is fading fast. many,many on clayart do not
even have a clue about that tradition. and most do not give a whit.
when i talk of this tradition in workshops that i
am teaching...it gets very little feedback.
`hey mel, teach us to tap center`.
twenty years ago, people wanted the stories and the traditions..
not any more.
technique rules. (and, that is fine with me.)
i have a hundred times the quesitons about gas/electric kilns
than i have about hamada...and i have been to his home, talked with
him...both he and leech. not too many care any more.
and young potters....hamada who? whatever.
`hey, let me show you my donut pot i rakued...i invented the
crawling`. total bs. (not all, many) full of ideas...but, bad ideas.
and, i do not expect my traditions to pass to young potters..they will
find their own...somehow. but, if the half time show of the super bowl
has any influence..we are a dead society.
mel
had a young potter tell me a few months ago...`hey, you use `old time
glazes`, i buy
mine in jars.` whatever.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Steve Dalton on wed 4 feb 04
On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 07:42 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> my take is that in another 15 years...potters
> will no longer talk of hamada/leech.
> it is fading fast. many,many on clayart do not
> even have a clue about that tradition. and most do not give a whit.
>
I never met Hamada or Leach, but I wish I could've. There work,
along with Cardew and Casson have influenced my work greatly.
When I teach at a local College, I talk about the great potters. Sure,
I get some stares but at least I'm keeping their names alive.
I'm still working on my Leach book collection.
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
clearcreekpottery.com
Hank Murrow on wed 4 feb 04
On Feb 4, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Andrew_M_Casto@PROGRESSIVE.COM wrote:
> Mel -
>
> I know I'm probably out of place here giving you advice on this topic
> - but
> take it for what it's worth -
> Snip__
> younger ceramic types are not taught the importance of the
> Leech/Hamada tradition. This is the natural result of universities
> becoming the predominant arena
> for the sculptural side of the field. You can disagree with that if
> you want, but there's no chance that more schools out there are
> pushing functional pots than sculpture. I also know plenty of
> students who want to make pots and are alienated in the educational
> system without anyone to teach them or show them the rich history of
> their craft.
> Maybe the older potters bucked the educational system when the teaching
> jobs got taken, and never passed on this stuff??? Who knows.
Dear Andy;
I think the likely culprit is the University's adoption of 'The
Business Model', which is to do more with less. This has translated (at
the hiring and promotion level) to 'you must have at least a National
Reputation'.........and 'bring grant $$ with you', to faculty spending
40_50% of their time 'getting famous' just to keep their jobs, against
the pressure of new, young, less well-paid new faculty. At the U of
Oregon, for example, in the good old days we had the vacation times to
really get something done in the studio. Now, they fill the down times
with so-called workshops and other short term activities. There is no
down time, the staff are overworked, and faculty harried and trying to
get out of town to conferences and shows..........all at the expense of
teaching.....but contributing mightily to that 'reputation'.
Anybody recall that poem of Naomi's about waht is famous?
last rant of the month from Hank in Eugene
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 5 feb 04
Dear Friends,
I have been lead to believe that the strength of a Tradition is its
ability to mutate and transform itself in such a way that though its
roots may be scarcely discernible it has the appearance of the Avant
Garde and represents the shape of "Things to Come".
But I am most probably wrong.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
| |
|
