clayart digest - 4 feb 2004 to 5 feb 2004 (#2004-36)

updated sat 7 feb 04

Greentree on fri 6 feb 04

Kathi, you have a good point. doesn't seem like the best system, but what
would the replacement be? I agree that the jury system seems a bit, shall we
say, entrenched... especially in important shows (like the Smithsonian craft
show where many of the same people display year after year). Isn't the
ultimate arbiter the market-- what people think is beautiful and want to be
around? But if the jurors are the gatekeeper to that market...then what's
the answer? And many jurors are great people with great asthetics. I love
the idea of slipping in slides of work by famous potters just to see what
would happen... hmmm. Sounds like fun. But to be fair (and honest) not sure
I would buy those pots if I were out and about and didn't know who made
them... Maybe I would walk right by .... Is this tantamount to clay talk
sacrilidge?

Nancy

Kathy Wrote: Kathi LeSueur
Subject: Re: hamada/leech tradition-rightly divide

As revered as Leach and Hamada are in the tradition of ceramics, and as
well known and respected as they are to many of us on list, I would be
willing to bet that neither would make the cut in a jury of a top art
fair today unless the jurors had been clued in as to who they are. That
is unfortunate. On the other hand, I was once tempted to slip in slides
of paintings by G. Harvey ( a wonderful Texas artist who's use of light
in incredible) to see if the jury would allow "cowboy" art in the show.

I have come to hate the jury system and its' dictating of what is good
and what is bad. On the other hand I don't know what to replace it with.

Kathi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Automatic digest processor"
To: "Recipients of CLAYART digests"
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 12:00 AM
Subject: CLAYART Digest - 4 Feb 2004 to 5 Feb 2004 (#2004-36)


> There are 136 messages totalling 6064 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. FW: Tenmoku by Koji Kamada
> 2. hank, naomi's images
> 3. steve dalton/transmissions (2)
> 4. How famous is famous? (2)
> 5. NCECA questions again
> 6. Tradition (4)
> 7. Need help with thermocouple (2)
> 8. I have a new electric kiln....
> 9. hamada/leach tradition (3)
> 10. Gypsum Pitting
> 11. Was a woman the first potter?
> 12. Clay It Forward #1 (2)
> 13. Glaze course this Summer - RR
> 14. To Ronroy (2)
> 15. Designer Clay Bodies (5)
> 16. Firing Questions
> 17. stacking in the bisque?
> 18. leaky weepy pots/ COE's (2)
> 19. Greenish Zinc Oxide - what gives?
> 20. Dear Janet Kaiser & teapots
> 21. hamada/leech tradition
> 22. hamada/leech tradition-(Long)
> 23. Greenish Zinc Oxide - what gives?
> 24. hamada/leech tradition-rightly divide (3)
> 25. Jared B
> 26. A couple Links, one to see an image of the Venus of Dolni Vestonice,
and
> another to read about it's context...
> 27. Hank's show (2)
> 28. empty bowls information
> 29. LEACH (2)
> 30. Plate setters/rascal ware???
> 31. Pyrometers and Raku?
> 32. I have a new electric kiln....(moth balls)
> 33. Famous?
> 34. Paul Lewing-NCECA
> 35. was raku question newbie.....now raku fashion/protective clothing.
Don't
> wear shots. Quite dangerous
> 36. Wholesale question (8)
> 37. photo set up thank you all
> 38. greenish zinc oxide
> 39. Calculating Sintering temperature for a glaze
> 40. 5th Annual Clayart Slide Workshop, Update
> 41. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20LEACH?=
> 42. Worm Mail
> 43. was raku question newbie....Don't wear shorts. Quite dangerous
> 44. Hank's Show (2)
> 45. Pottery books
> 46. ...looking for AVERY stash...
> 47. Clay in San Francisco? Adobe clay question and a story
> 48. traditons of old and new
> 49. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20was=20raku=20question=20n?=
>
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?ewbie.....now=20raku=20fashion/protective=20clothing.=20D?=
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?on't=20wear=20shots.=20Quite=20dangerous?=
> 50. Fwd:
> 51. Tradition - Where do we find these differeing grants and endowments
and so
> on?
> 52. NCECA - looking for someone with room to share
> 53. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20Pyrometers=20and=20?=
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Raku=3F?=
> 54. FW: Re: hamada/leech tradition
> 55. Hamada/Leach New Potters
> 56. 5th Annual Clayart Slide Workshop
> 57. Reference/tradition
> 58. "A Potter's Book" by Bernard Leach
> 59. Jared 1-5-04
> 60. platesetters
> 61. anyone with a good ash wash??
> 62. bisque firing question (7)
> 63. leaky weepy pots - the easy test (3)
> 64. Breathalyzer in Auto (3)
> 65. Jomon Venus ; was: Venus of Dolni Vestonice
> 66. Women in clay
> 67. Flocculation and deflocculation (was: Designer clay bodies) (2)
> 68. Clayart Room/NCECA
> 69. Potter's Paradise for Sale
> 70. Clay Mechanics Exhibition Preview
> 71. Savannah
> 72. Clay It Forward #2/twelve books
> 73. Raku apron
> 74. John Dellow/from Steve Harrison
> 75. A photography workshop for artists and a stash of molds and other
pottery
> equipment
> 76. Sculptor needed
> 77. fertility goddesses?
> 78. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20Raku=20apron?=
> 79.
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:______Re:_=A0_=A0_=A0_was_raku_question_newbie.....now_?
> =
>
=?iso-8859-1?Q?raku_fashion/protective_clothing._Don't_wear_shots._Quite_?
> = =?iso-8859-1?Q?dangerous?=
> 80. Leach, Hamada tradition
> 81. Were to find grants etc.
> 82. kiln stuff in Florida
> 83. Pyrometers and Raku? maybe an easier solution... (2)
> 84. was raku question proper clothing
> 85. famous women ceramic artist
> 86. ignorance2
> 87. Black cone 9-10
> 88. A A A A Re: a?a?a? Re: raku newbie Question
> 89. connection
> 90. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20Pyrometers=20and=20?=
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Raku=3F=A0=20maybe=20an=20easier=20solution...?= (2)
> 91. tradition #2
> 92.
> 93. ALBANY SLIP
> 94. Underglaze Stamping Inks
> 95. ok. i know
> 96. tradition, a question
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:01:03 -0800
> From: Kathryn & Stuart Fields
> Subject: FW: Tenmoku by Koji Kamada
>
> How exquisite!. We are fortunate enough to have Tenmoku as one of our
class
> glazes and I've wanted to experiment with its wide variations. Thank you
> for listing this site, it will give me much to view and ponder.
>
> Kathy - Inyokern, CA
> www.vkss.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Bob Ellis
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:39 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Tenmoku by Koji Kamada
>
>
> My first exposure to tenmoku was a few years ago when DaiIchi Arts here in
> New York held an exhibition of Koji Kamada's work. Never before had I
> seen such radiance in pottery! I was awestruck and have been following
> Kamada's work ever since.
>
> I know lots of people here on this board are interested in tenmoku. If so,
> I highly recommend visiting 2000cranes.com - one of the best online
> collections of Mr. Kamada's tenmoku I've seen so far. The directions that
> he's taking this glaze are just stunning!
>
> Not much on the technical end, but lot's of pieces for potters to ponder.
>
http://www.2000cranes.com/artists_Kamada/Tenomku_Exhibition_04/Online_Tenmo
> ku_Exhibition.htm
>
> B. Ellis
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:35:49 -0500
> From: SCOTT YEIP
> Subject: hank, naomi's images
>
> That's okay Hank. I am not much of a feminist, hubby gets top billing!
> I am only a feminist on issues that concern my daughter!
>
> Anyway, sorry I misunderstood about the images, yes her thoughts come =
> across very eloquently.
>
> Amy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:46:39 -0800
> From: pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
> Subject: Re: steve dalton/transmissions
>
> Yes!
>
>
> A ('Manual') Transmission is either a good deal easier
> anyway, than an Engine is, or, at 'worst'' ( an 'automatic',
> or some automatics) about the same...
>
>
>
> Phil
> lasvegas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mel jacobson"
>
> > damn that steve, i wish he would
> > work on his transmissions. what the
> > hell is wrong with him?
> > yank out that sucker and learn.
> > just think how you can help neighbors.
> > mel
> > From:
> > Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:49:00 -0800
> From: Paul Lewing
> Subject: Re: How famous is famous?
>
> on 2/3/04 9:32 PM, Chris Rupp at cmrdesigns@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
> Janet Kaiser wrote:
> > When the original poster mentioned Leach, Hamada, Voulkos, and
> >> Autio, I'd
> >>> bet that 99% of the people on this list, and of potters in
> >> general,
> >>> recognized the names. Therefore, they are famous.
> >>
> >> I do not agree. There are countless potters around the world who
> >> will never have heard of any of them. Either individually or
> >> collectively.
>
> So, Janet, you're saying that unless ALL of the potters in the world have
> heard of someone, that person is not famous? Come on, if these four guys
> are not famous, there's no such thing as a famous clay artist!
> Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:49:00 -0800
> From: Paul Lewing
> Subject: Re: NCECA questions again
>
> on 2/4/04 4:48 AM, Daraburn@AOL.COM at Daraburn@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> > Folks always talk about the Clayart Room at NCECA ...
> > where do I go, what happens there, and when?
> > When/where would I need to drop off a mug for the
> > exchange?
> >
> > I won't be able to register until I arrive, so I will
> > not get my welcome-type packet until then (my excuse
> > for asking a question that may be answered in said
> > packet).
>
> Kristin, the Clayart room will not be mentioned in your NCECA packet,
> because it's not an official NCECA function. And no one knows until we
get
> there where the room will be. Keep your eyes peeled around the
registration
> desk, and there should be some kind of sign indicating where it is. If
not,
> just start asking people. NCECA-goers are amazingly friendly and helpful.
> If all else fails, go to the Non-profit Exhibitors section, find the
> Appalachian Center for Crafts booth, and ask Vince Pitelka. He's almost
> always in the booth, and he will know where it is. And your first NCECA
> wouldn't be complete without your meeting him, anyway. You can take your
> mug to the room any time before they do the exchange on Friday afternoon.
> And welcome- we all look forward to meeting you.
> Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:00:01 -0500
> From: Kathy Forer
> Subject: Re: Tradition
>
> The thing about tradition is that there also needs to be rebellion to
> keep it vital.
>
> Not everyone needs challenge tradition, just enough to maintain a
> balance of conflict. Joyce Cary speaks very well to this dialectic in
> his 1956 book of Clark lectures, "Art and Reality." Cary juxtaposes a
> subversive anarchist type with more dutiful workers within a tradition.
> He ends up saying how those who adhere to and push a tradition are
> often more innovative than those who reject tradition entirely, though
> rejection and questioning is an essential dynamic.
>
>
> Kathy Forer
> http://kforer.com
> http://foreverink.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:06:15 -0500
> From: LindaBlossom
> Subject: Re: Need help with thermocouple
>
> Joanne,
>
> I have this unit. There are two terminals on the back of the meter. Use
a
> piece of thermostat wire and put one of the copper wires to one of those
> terminals (screws) and the other copper wire to the other screw. Then go
to
> the thermocouple and do the same thing. If it doesn't work, reverse the
> wires on the thermocouple.
>
> Linda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joanne Fuller"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:26 PM
> Subject: Need help with thermocouple
>
>
> > My husband bought a thermocouple for me from Stan Pawlak on Ebay, but I
> cannot figure out how to wire it. I tried emailing Stan, but could not
> understand how to use the unit he shipped me. He spoke in electricians
> terms. It's greek to me.
> >
> > On the front of my unit it says "XTMD-3011". I also have a probe. And
an
> "AC Contactor"
> >
> > Does anyone else have this unit? If so, could you explain, in plain
> english, how to assemble and use the thermocouple. I feel so stupid.
> > Please help.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Joanne Fuller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:08:30 -0800
> From: Ross and Rox <555jesswein@CHARTER.NET>
> Subject: I have a new electric kiln....
>
> CLAYART Digest - 2 Feb 2004 to 3 Feb 2004 (#2004-34)And already I am =
> wondering what I can do with it. Is it possible to use it to ... well, =
> reduce?
>
> I got a Skutt with the special elements that allow me to fire =
> consistantly to Cone 10. They are coated, I believe. (KM-1227PK, 9.92 =
> cu. ft. 240V: 60 Amps, 14300 Watts Cone 10, 2350 degrees)
> Would these special elements allow me to somewhat safely apply a bit of =
> reduction, like with moth balls? Or would this damage the elements?=20
>
> Does anyone know who makes these elements and what they are called? (I =
> missed that in the sales pitch!)
>
> I know some potters have almost started fires reducing in an electric =
> kiln. They must have been doing an oil reduction, I think. Does that =
> sound more ... dangerous than moth balls.
>
> And will moth balls have much effect? I know Beatrice Woods used them. =
> Did she use an electric kiln?
>
> Any ideas on this rather dark and smokey subject?=20
>
> And if you'd rather discuss my sanity than my kiln, I understand!
>
> Roxanne in OR, itching to get the electricity hooked up to that big =
> shiney Skutt!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:39:29 +0900
> From: Lee Love
> Subject: Re: hamada/leach tradition
>
> Jean took me into Mugendo's (combination antique/thrift store) to look
> at an Ainu hand mirror she though might be good to go on Ebay. I
> went over to the long glass counter, where the middled level was full of
> Hamada's work. The young sales person there got me out a polka-dot
> matchawa to hold. It was mostly blue and and a little white (the
> glaze turns blue over ocher), with brown and white polka-dots for
> decoration The glaze crawled nicely, especially where the pot was
> trimmed for the foot. It was the archetypal "breast" shape and didn't
> have a well at the bottom.. All except for one small yunomi, none of
> the works were for sale, but only on display.
>
>
> Lee In Mashiko
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:43:28 -0800
> From: Snail Scott
> Subject: Re: Gypsum Pitting
>
> At 02:45 PM 2/2/04 -0700, Dave F wrote:
> >...One reference I found says that the
> >thermal decomposition of gypsum into calcium oxide and sulfur oxides
> >proceeds faster, and at a lower temperature, in a reducing atmosphere...
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Snail Scott"
> >Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:11 AM
> >>...I didn't try to remove all of the
> >> plaster before firing, and afterward the
> >> largest plaster chunks had become glaze-like
> >> shiny spots.
>
>
> The piece I referred to was single-fired to ^6
> in an electric kiln, so by normal standards it
> was not reduction-fired. There was surely
> some burn-out occurring, but could it have been
> enough to make a difference? Seems unlikely.
> Could the high iron content of the clay have
> caused some fluxing effect?
>
> -Snail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:37:18 -0500
> From: Kathy Forer
> Subject: Re: Was a woman the first potter?
>
> Hi Lela,
>
> I tried out an explanation on my nephew and it didn't fly. We ended up
> in a terrific discussion, but he didn't buy my long-held belief that
> all conflict can be reduced to the fact that there is a fundamental
> dualistic quality to humanity that transcends Manichean good and evil
> and that is just plain based on the fact that the world is made of two
> kinds of people, men and women, with whatever shades of sexuality or
> identity in between. But two basic archetypes set the stage for duality
> and the development of conflict.
>
> I wish I could explain or develop it better or knew if this was an
> academic theory, but it's just a notion, not very intellectualized.
> Perhaps started when we read about the Trojan Wars. If they could be
> fought over a woman, Helen, why couldn't other wars also be fought for
> similar reasons? Extrapolate that and the conflict over the kinds of
> power that men and women yield is not insignificant. Of course there
> are rational, recordable, historical factors that contribute to war,
> but mythology often seems to give a fuller and more accurate
> explanation. And beneath mythology... there are gods and goddesses,
> government by allegory.
>
> The moon is almost full and it's very bright out. Today the birds were
> having a party with the stream that opened up in the frozen creek.
> Animals don't have wars, people do.
>
> I wonder if that flies at all or is plain lead....
>
> Kathy
> Locust
>
> On Feb 3, 2004, at 6:26 PM, lela martens wrote:
>
> > Hi Katy,
> >
> > You wrote; ` and make us all realize that bloody and fateful wars are
> > just
> > the "war" between men and women in disguise.
> > Yeah, back to the Runic Wars, Norman Conquest and the Hundred Years
> > War, all
> > of them, motivated by the inability of men and women to communicate
> > within
> > and across cultures`.
> >
> > Please.. You`ve GOT to explain this.
> > Lela, on the prairies where the sun is finally out again.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:47:08 -0800
> From: Snail Scott
> Subject: Re: Tradition
>
> At 06:57 PM 2/4/04 -0500, you wrote:
> >Many years ago I applied for a Arts Council grant. I was turned down...He
> said your proposal mentioned the word "tradition" too
> >many times... I submitted the same proposal using
> >artspeak the next year and received a grant...
>
>
> There are many grants, from many agencies and foundations,
> given for many reasons. Some of them actualy prefer to
> support artists or artisans who continue traditional
> techniques. I even know of a grant which is given
> specifically to allow artisans working in a traditional
> craft to take on an apprentice or student. Many grant-
> giving agencies DO seek out novelty and innovation; that's
> their chosen mission. Many have other missions, so their
> criteria differ accordingly. If a grant prospectus or
> application does not give a sense of what its desired goals
> are, call and ask. Ask if you might receive a list of names
> of previous grant recipients, so you can research their
> work. Some grantors will even provide copies of past
> successful applications on request.
>
> Don't pretend to be someone you're not. But sometimes it
> can help if you know how to look more like the person you
> really are! Grant-giving committees are human, too, and
> they have to read a lot into the sparse information of an
> application essay or form. Having a sense of what they
> look for (and how they expect it to look) can help you
> provide that information in a way they will recognize.
> And if you're not the person they're looking for, find
> other grants who ARE looking for you! They probably exist.
>
> Some grant committees are buttheaded. But not all. And
> it never hurts to grease the wheels by figuring out their
> side of the process and how to fit yourself into their
> chosen vision.
>
> -Snail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:50:59 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: Clay It Forward #1
>
> Just a little correction here - It's John's program - not that I wouldn't
> be proud to be a co-owner.
>
> RR
>
>
>
> >We have an anonymous donor who owns
> >a second brand new copy of Ron's and
> >John's "Glaze Master" glaze calculation
> >software, with instruction book.
> >
> >The simple requirements for receiving this
> >donation are:
> >
> >1) You are a member of Clayart
> >2) You apply for yourself, not for someone else
> >3) For now, and we hope it's temporary, you're
> >in a rough patch financially and could not
> >purchase this book for yourself. Even if you
> >have the dollars, they are needed elsewhere.
> >4) This is a book that you want for yourself
> >to use in your own work ....... not just another
> >"freebie..... might as well give it a whirl."
> >
> >If you're interested, please e-mail me directly
> >as the donor prefers anonymity.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >Joyce
> >In the Mojave Desert of California USA
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:51:00 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: Glaze course this Summer - RR
>
> More on the course at Loyalist.
>
> Sharon at Loyalist informs me my hours from estimates are too short - she
> says to add 2 hours to each.
>
> I did not include the dates - July 12 to the 16th.
>
> I already have 12 inquiries so I am thinking the course will be a go - we
> can accommodate about 14 - not trying to panic anyone but there is a
limit.
>
> The brochures will be printed in about 2 weeks - if you want loyalist to
> mail you one just email your mailing address to me.
>
> Margaret and I have decided to put the emphasis on learning the programs
> and understanding how to use them to solve clay and glaze problems. That
> means we will limit firings to one for the week.
>
> A tentative course description.
>
> Day one - Understanding the Seger Unity Formula and how it is used.
> How to use either Insight or Glazemaster:
> Entering a recipe.
> Entering a material.
> Adjusting calculated expansion.
> Adjusting alumina/silica ratios.
>
>
> Day Two.
> Making a glaze from scratch.
> Adjusting known glaze faults.
> Mixing glazes to fire on Wednesday.
>
> Day Three.
> Same glaze different materials.
> Combining glazes.
> Making glazes more durable.
> Fixing crazing, running and pinholes.
> How to stop glazes from settling.
>
> Day Four and Five.
> Analyse fired glazes and apply changes to keep what you like and get rid
of
> what you don't like.
> Formulate new glazes for testing at home.
> Analyse all your glazes and see how they can be improved.
>
> That's a tentative scenario - we will be flexible and address all concerns
> within the time frame. It will be about helping each person able to leave
> knowing how to use each program and how to apply solutions to common glaze
> problems.
>
> If anyone is interested I will be showing how I use calculation to manage
> and adjust clay bodies for the two companies I work for.
>
> RR
>
> >You can drive here from Detroit in about 4 hours, from Buffalow in about
3
> >hours, from Rochester in about 2 hours.
> >
> >There is bus & shuttle service from Toronto International Air Port.
> >
> >If you want to know more - or have a book describing the summer courses
at
> >Loyalist College let me know - and I will send them you request.
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:51:02 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: To Ronroy
>
> Hi Barbara,
>
> First you wash any glaze - to make sure there is no oil on the surface -
> don't tough the cleaned surfave with you fingers as oil will get back on
> it.
>
> Using household vinegar - leave the test piece imersed in it for 14 hours
> at room temperature - best to leave part of the glaze above the vinegar so
> you have the original glaze to compare to.
>
> For realy bad glazes you will see a dulling of the surface - you must make
> sure the glaze is absolutly dry - towel off the rinsed glaze and dry it
> with some heat to be sure.
>
> This is only a test to show really bad glazes - you would need to have a
> lab test done to find out for sure just how durable the glaze is.
>
> You can also leave a slice of lemon on any glaze at room temp - sometime
it
> will turn the glaze a different colour - try leaving it on the glaze for
> three days - replacing the lemon slice every day.
>
> Send me the recipe and what cone you are firing the glazes to - perhaps I
> can help you with this.
>
> Glad to help,
>
> RR
>
> >RR could you please explain how to do the leach test at home with the
> >vinegar....what to look for etc...I know it's probabaly in your book but
I
> >don't have
> >a copy of that and money is very tight. I also have a child with cancer
so I
> >really don't want to add to her problems by letting her eat off of
something
> >harmful. I would really appreciate whatever you could tell me.
> >Thank you so much
> >Barbara
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:51:07 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: Designer Clay Bodies
>
> I think the confusion in this is due to how much water is present -
flocced
> bodies - in a slip - are card house type.
>
> In a plastic body - because there is less water between the crystals of
> clay - the correct anology is card stack.
>
> At least that is how I am reading the explanation in Hamer.
>
> RR
>
>
> >> And in repsonse to Ron's point re. flocculation and the effect on
> >> strength. If we ignore the non-plastics component: a flocculated clay
> >> suspension is likely to have lower packing density than when
> >> deflocculated.
> >>
> >
> > This seems to me at least mildly counter-intuitive. I thought that the
> >result of flocculation was a drawing together of particles which seems
(at
> >least at the macro level ) to imply a tigher structure. Could you explain
> >more what reduces the packing density ? Perhaps it is related to what you
> >describe as a suspension ? What exactly is that in this case ?
> >
> >Thanx
> >Daniel
>
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:51:09 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: Firing Questions
>
> Hi Lowell Ann,
>
> I would certainly consider leaving a spy open during a bisque firing to
aid
> in getting extra oxygen in to help burn of impurities.
>
> Those of us who use kiln vents certainly need to have an opening somewhere
> to admit fresh air.
>
> It is the same with glaze firings - the venting draws in air.
>
> Perhaps having a spy open at the beginning of a glaze firing - up till
500C
> would help exit burnt wax fumes - remembering that those fumes will be in
> the kiln room and they should be ventilated out as much as can be -
> certainly you should limit as much as possible breathing them.
>
> If you have a pyrometer you will be able to find how to soak by turning
> down say one switch to medium and then seeing if the heat is still rising.
>
> It would be very helpful if you knew which part of your kiln is the
coolest
> - cones on each level will help you find that out - the switches that
> control the heating in the coolest parts should be left on longest.
>
> Soaking should start as your glaze cone starts to bend - lets say 2 oclock
> - as the soaking proceeds the cone will drop further - the soaking should
> stop when it has dropped to the level you want - 4 or 5 oclock would be
> normal for most circumstances.
>
> Firing fast in the beginning - unless you are having crawling problems -
is
> acceptable - slowing down near the end of a firing will help make up for
> that. Just remember - slower firings help the melt better and make for
more
> even firings.
>
> Slow firing over night to say 800C makes for an easy firing day -
> especially if you are planning to slow cool. The trick is to have proper
> safety in place - kiln hard wired to a breaker - no plugs - and a fail
safe
> system so that if something goes wrong the kiln shuts off itself.
>
> I always make sure I check a kiln one hour after I turn it on - to see if
> everything is progressing in a normal way.
>
> RR
>
>
> >Two questions I have:
> >
> >1. Should I perhaps leave a peep hole open for all or most of the firing?
> >For both bisque and glaze firing? Does it produce a better result to have
> >the peep(s) open? I did a search on this but could not find anything.
> >
> >2. How long should I soak? Should I just turn it to medium after the kiln
> >sitter has been triggered? I have read many different ideas on how to
fire
> >and am having trouble deciding the "right" way.... if there is one.
> >
> >3. Is it possible to fire it too slowly? A friend with a bigger version
> >of the same kiln - PV Enterprises (Waterloo, ON) - tells me that after
> >warming the pots she turns hers on 7 (10 is low, 1 is high) and then lets
> >it fire slowly all night and it is almost ready in the morning. Then she
> >turns it up to finish it off. Sounds a lot easier than what I was doing!
> >
> >Yesterday and today my firend and I have made up a bunch of glazes from
> >"Mastering Cone 6 Glazes" and we are really excited to fire up again and
> >try them out. A bit apprehensive too!
> >
> >Thank you so so much for the wealth of information that all of you so
> >freely share.
> >
> >Lowell Ann Barron
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:51:10 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: stacking in the bisque?
>
> Hi Barb,
>
> Much depends on the amount of junk in your clay and how thick the clay is.
>
> I do some work for a tile company in Florida and they had started stacking
> the tiles to bisque fire them. There was this little circle of sightly
grey
> colour - in the middle of some tiles and they noticed it because they were
> having some glaze problems with some of their tiles.
>
> They like to fire fast and it was just a matter of the carbon not having
> enough oxygen to burn off for the tiles inside the stack.
>
> I suggest you slow your bisque firing down - especially between 700C and
> the end - or stop stacking pots - or separate the stacking with wads so
you
> get better circulation inside.
>
> Better still get a vent system - they are great for a constant supply of
oxygen.
>
> RR
>
> >Hi, Ron and others. I just notice your note about stacking pots in the
> >bisque. Could my stacking just about everything rim to rim in the bisque
> >cause troubles with the "bad" gasses not getting out? I do sometimes
find
> >bubbles and craters on some of the pots-in almost all of the glazes I use
> >from time to time-soaking at the end seems to take care of some of it. I
> >fire to ^04 for the bisque-electric- with the top 2 of the 3 peep holes
> >open. Glaze fire is ^6-electric. I would appreciate further commentary
> >on this!
> > Thank You, Barb from Bloomington
> >
> >barblund@bluemarble.net
> >520 West 6th St.
> >Bloomington, IN 47404
> >812 339 8476
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:51:12 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: Designer Clay Bodies
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Read in Lawrence &West on particle arrangement - thay used an electronic
> microscope to see them - also Ceramic Masterpieces by Kingery and Vandiver
> - many micro photos - very interesting stuff and you don't need a new
> wardrobe.
>
> I would bet that a net search will find more of what you want to see.
>
> RR
>
>
>
> >Thanks everyone for your comments. For me the recent posts illustarte hwo
> >valuable Clayart can be: excahnge of ideas and get the brain cells
working.
> >
> >And in repsonse to Ron's point re. flocculation and the effect on
> >strength. If we ignore the non-plastics component: a flocculated clay
> >suspension is likely to have lower packing density than when
> >deflocculated. Sorry but I'd like to sketch something but the classic
> >description of 'house of cards' structure of the flocculated state is the
> >best I can do in text i.e. edge to face arrangements. Poor packing ->
more
> >gaps -> weaker mechanically.
> >
> >Wouldn't it be great if we could shrink down molecular level and directly
> >observe these actions!
> >
> >Open to comment again....
> >
> >
> >Andrew
>
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:51:13 +0900
> From: Lee Love
> Subject: Re: hamada/leach tradition
>
> If you examine what these two people taught, it is easy to see that
> they didn't believe in simply copying old
> Japanese/English/Korean/Chinese work. What they were about was
> protecting traditional culture in face of the overwhelming power of
> modern materialism and mass produced things that have no heart.
>
> A really good way to see the international perspective they had
> is to visit Hamada's reference museum. There is work there from all
> over the world, from English furniture to Persian rugs, from Ainu
> clothing to Peruvian pottery.
>
>
> Lee In Mashiko
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:51:15 -0500
> From: Ron Roy
> Subject: Re: leaky weepy pots/ COE's
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> Yes - we have been down this road before - and will be again. Would it be
> fair to say we are both slow learners?
>
> I call a stoneware body with 8% absorption underfired - and it will leak -
> same with 5% absorption.
>
> Perhaps you are confusing - stoneware clay and stoneware bodies - not the
> same thing at all.
>
> Should we not - as clay suppliers - assume that the majority of the clays
> we make will be used to make functional ware? If not are we not obligated
> to inform those who do make functional ware which clays are and at what
> temperature they are suitable - seems pretty basic to me.
>
> Here are some references for you re absorption of stoneware bodies.
>
> Cardew - Pioneer Pottery - page 61 "should be well vitrified and non
> porous" he also notes not over vitrified as that leads to a weaker
product.
>
> Clay and Glazes - Rhodes/Hopper page 96 - stoneware ware should be nearly
> virious.
>
> Hamer - 4th edition - page 260 - stoneware bodies - slight porosity is
> desirable 1 to 2 %.
>
> This particularly important since the advent of the Microwave oven.
>
> I would think that any clay manufacturer that sells clay with a cone range
> of over 2 should warn their customers - it will leak at certain
> temperatures or be overfired - or at least give some indication of
> absorbancy at each recommended cone.
>
> Then each type of potter - functional or non functional will have a decent
> chance of buying a suitable product.
>
> RR
>
>
> >> 8% must be a typing error - the definition of stoneware - is a clay
having
> >> less than 3% absorbancy at the top temperature - and it will not leak -
> >> even if the glaze is not perfect.
> >>
> >> To imply that stoneware clay is OK if the absorbency is above 3% is to
> >> ignore the basic requirements for truely functional ware - especially
when
> >> much functional ware will be used in a microwave oven.
> >>
> >Hi Ron ---Greetings All----Well , the vast majority of definitions of
> >earthenware state the absorbency at 10 -15%. So what do you call a body
that
> >is fired to stoneware temperatures and has an absorbency rate between 11%
> >and 6%. I call the ones over 8% earthenwares and the ones under 8%
> >stonewares. You're always defining everything by functional pottery
> >standards Ron, they are not applicable in all cases.
> >
> >Besides, we've been down this road before. Defining Stoneware at less
than
> >3% absorption flies in the face of just about everybody else's definition
of
> >stoneware but yours. Peterson Rhodes Hammer I could go on and on all give
> >2-5% as guide for stoneware. Rhodes goes as far as saying 2% is too dense
> >and the body would need to be modified to make it more absorbent.
> >
> >As I say we've been through this discussion on this venue before and if
you
> >want to say that all definitions
> >of clays have to be dependent on function pottery parameters, fine for
you.
> >But you're not going to get me or anybody else who produces other than
> >function pottery to buy into that narrow of a definition.
> >
> >Thanks for the offer of comparing results and calibration techniques, I
may
> >take you up on that offer.
> >
> >Best regards
> >Jon Pacini
> >Clay Manager
> >Laguna Clay Co
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:52:08 +1030
> From: Ivor and Olive Lewis
> Subject: Re: Greenish Zinc Oxide - what gives?
>
> Dear George,
> Get back to your supplier.
> Ask for a full materials data sheet including a true, not
> specification, analysis. Ask "Why is this stuff green and not white?"
> The only opinion I offer is that it might be coloured with an organic
> dye as a means of distinguishing it from other grades of Zinc Oxide.
> Best regards,
> Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:10:13 +1030
> From: Ivor and Olive Lewis
> Subject: Re: Designer Clay Bodies
>
> Dear Jim,
> No quarrel with Soil Mechanics provided the systems being represented
> are illustrative of Potters Plastic Clay. I had a thought about the
> occurrence and nature of clay in the earths crust. Why are "Mud
> Slides" so unexpected and catastrophic? This must happen in
> mountainous districts when there has been a period of dry weather and
> the soil is parched bone dry. When clay or earth is saturated it
> changes to a fluid and the forces which give plastic clay its tenacity
> do not seem to form.
>
> It also seems as though comparisons are being made between potters
> plastic clay and materials which has been heat processed to cause a
> variety of phase and chemical changes. There seems to be a "non
> sequitur" embedded in this argument. Why do you need to introduce this
> red herring?
>
> And please direct us all to those SEM images of plastic clay at a mag
> of X 10,000 or higher. I would dearly love to see them and to know how
> they manage to process the subject matter in a vacuum.
>
> Hamer does not mention the glass phase in his illustration. He just
> shows images of hexagons in contact with each other. No mention of
> water or anything else.
>
> Have you made the Model yet?
>
> Best regards,
> Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Murphy"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, 5 February 2004 4:37
> Subject: Re: Designer Clay Bodies
>
>
> > Hi there Ivor,
> >
> > <> strength
> > without the intervention of an adhesive matrix? Everytime I tried
> to
> > construct one from a pack of cards it would tumble awry and
> collapse
> > into a heap unless it was stabilised ! !.>>
> >
> > There are no recipes in the book referenced. However, there are
> plenty of
> > SEMs (scanning electron microscopy) images.
> >
> > The house-of-cards microstructure exists because there are 2
> separate phases
> > ('glass' and 'crystalline') in the fired matrix with the combination
> of
> > these phases exhibiting greater strength than any single phase
> could. A SEM
> > image for fluormica glass-ceramic shows "phase-separated residual
> > borosilicate glass and affinity of siliceous droplets for mica
> flakes."
> >
> > From some of my other "readings", I believe other low-clay (40-50%
> clay)
> > bodies have been developed which rely on mullite-needle crystal
> growth
> > within a glassy matrix. Some porcelain-stoneware bodies like some
> used in
> > porcelain-stoneware floor tiles rely on this type of phase
> separation.
> >
> > So, imagine if all of your stacked playing card surrounding surfaces
> were
> > enveloped in "glass" and all internal cavities/pockets of your
> stacked
> > playing cards were filled by "glass", then the overall strength of
> your
> > "house-of-cards" would be increased by many orders of magnitude. In
> such a
> > case, the playing cards would be somewhat analogous to the
> mullite-needle
> > crystals.
> >
> > I don't mean to imply either that all porcelain-stoneware bodies are
> > "plastic". Some 'are' some 'aren't'. I'll say this though,
> "plasticity" is
> > not necessarily directly proportional to the amount of clay in a
> clay body
> > recipe.
> >
> > Andrew Sugden has pointed out some very important factors related to
> > plasticity and mechanical strength, like particle size, CEC,
> absorbed water
> > layer thickness, how cations may affect absorbed water layer
> thickness, etc.
> >
> > All we need now is some more discussion on the influence of
> capilliary water
> > forces on plasticity. Many of the texts just briefly mention these
> > capilliary forces within page-after-page-after-page of discussion on
> > charge-theory, etc.
> >
> > Water, pore-size, capilliary water forces are very important to
> plasticity.
> > It doesn't mean that "liquid water" exists in capilliary pores
> either. Dare
> > I mention Soil-Mechanics Theory ?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Jim Murphy
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:38:04 +1030
> From: Ivor and Olive Lewis
> Subject: Re: How famous is famous?
>
> Dear Chris Rupp,
> You say <> Minoans, around 3,000-26000 b.c. However, these pots are no longer
> made! Why? Because they are not needed any>>
> Is that so? Well , please don't tell us Aussies because we might get a
> bit offended. There are many people "Down Under" making pots in that
> height range and above and a big demand for them as decoration in
> public places and corporate buildings. My friend Trevor was asking me
> the other day at the Gym if I could make some for him. "Sorry" said I.
> "Kiln isn't big enough" Seems to be lucrative market awaiting
> exploitation
> Best Regards,
> Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:35:24 EST
> From: Imbolchottie@AOL.COM
> Subject: Dear Janet Kaiser & teapots
>
> Mutter... Mutter... Mutter...
>
> Dorothy Parker: "A girls' best friend is her mutter."
>
> I am getting back mountains of feedback on teapots, I never realized the
> depth of passion folks have for them. I'm trying to visually take it all
in, but
> stay away from shots I can carry into the studio. I'm hoping all that I
see
> in my head, and have read, will gel into one and come pouring through my
> fingers.
>
> I have to admit, I have some pretty darn ugly 'pieces' so far, let's see
how
> they slip and score together into a pot.
>
> Actually, I'm a coffee drinker myself and have one large cup o' joe
> (mid-brew) while the java jump juice is working it's magic - who can
wait? -- so I
> don't have the overflow problem. Also ... I found the hard way, many
times over,
> little old ladies rule.
>
> Jonathan in LA
> w/ a cat named Clay
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:18:02 +1030
> From: Ivor and Olive Lewis
> Subject: Re: hamada/leech tradition
>
> Dear Friends,
> I have been lead to believe that the strength of a Tradition is its
> ability to mutate and transform itself in such a way that though its
> roots may be scarcely discernible it has the appearance of the Avant
> Garde and represents the shape of "Things to Come".
> But I am most probably wrong.
> Best regards,
> Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:58:07 -0500
> From: Chris Clyburn
> Subject: Re: hamada/leech tradition-(Long)
>
> Mel,
>
> As one of the younger generation (30 years old and only been involved in
> claywork for the past 4 years) I have to say that at least in this part of
> the country, students are still mixing glazes by hand from their own
recipes
> mostly. At least in the ceramics aspect we learn about Leech, Hamada,
> Voulkos, Soldner, Coleman, and many other less known potters. We are
taught
> our history from the rough and albeit sketchy origins of clay work to
> modern ceramics.
>
> I think a lot of problems with students having the desire to learn about
> past artists is that we see so much of the "art" descended from Marcel
> Duchamp's "Ready Mades" and how much praise is given for work of such
little
> effort (never mind that the Dadaist's like Duchamp menat that type of
"art"
> to be seen as a farce and a statement against the artistic sensibilities
of
> the Acadamies) that it is frustrating when we see little connection to
what
> we are making and what is currently accepted. The Art community is the one
> that seems to be ignoring its roots, becoming caught up in media hype and
> crass shock value (note such exhibits as "Piss Christ" and the plasticized
> corpses created by that German doctor and shown in the British Museum)
>
> Many students I talk to are in awe of the artists who actually tried to
make
> aesthectically pleasing art. Most of my generation that I talk to arefed
up
> with shock value art and wish to see a return to the values of the older
art
> traditions.
>
> I think if you talked to people of my generation that are artists because
> they couldn't imagine living as anything else, instead of those that are
> enamoured with the allure of "the artist" and the potential for fame, you
> will find a generation obsessed with tradition, not to imitate it, but to
> know where we came from so we can see where to go from there.
>
> Tradition is not dead, nor is our society, but rather it is only hidden
> underneath a veil of hype and fads. If you look hard enough, you will find
> the next generation's Leeche's and Hamada's and you will find them most
> assuredly grounded in their past. Tradition never dies, but fads do, and
> someday, we will have a new paradigm shift when the public has had its
fill
> of needing a novel length artist statement to be told that the piece of
> refuse (litterally, not figuratively) holds some deep esoteric meaning
that
> in reality was only intended to shock. A rose by any other name is still a
> rose, the same could be said of things hauled from a junkyard and placed
in
> a museum with a lofty title and lengthy artist statement.
>
> Have hope Mel, we are still out there, still making glazes, still making
> clays, still studying the elegance of form, function and design, and what
we
> learn will be passed on to the next generation, as the previous generation
> did for us. Like the clay on a wheel it is an endless circle, tradition
> passing from one turn to the next as it has for the past 10-30,000 years,
so
> it will continue, time without end
>
>
> Chris Clyburn
> Passes the soapbox to the next in line :-)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:35:47 +0000
> From: David Hewitt
> Subject: Greenish Zinc Oxide - what gives?
>
> George,
>
> I would definitely contact the supplier and ask for an analysis. It is
> the easiest first step to take when something like this arises.
>
> If you get the answer I would be interested in knowing what it is.
>
> David
> In message , George Koller writes
> >Hi Folks,
> >
> >We've been using Zinc Oxide for years and it has always been
> >WHITE.
> >
> >Today, while setting up our new powder storage system, I opened
> >a bag of "Denzox" from Eagle Zinc Company, Hillsboro, IL I noticed
> >a distinct greenish tint.
> >
> >We fire our most common glazes to Cone 04.
> >
> >What is this about?
> >
> >If Iron Oxide is the offending colorant - will this likely disappear in
> >the firing?
> >
> >Should I contact the supplier?
> >
> >Recommendations for another source?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks for any clues,
> >
> >
> >george koller
> >sturgeon bay, wi - door county
> >northport, mi - leelanau county
> >
> >
> >
> >two great places separated by 100 miles of great lake.
>
> --
> David Hewitt
> David Hewitt Pottery
> South Wales UK
> Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:58:30 -0800
> From: Keisha
> Subject: Re: hamada/leech tradition-rightly divide
>
> Hey everyone
>
> I've been reading all comments that have been made on
> the Hamada/Leech tradition. So interesting posts and
> some just shoulder raising because of how cold they
> were. I'm a young potter. I'm only 25 and I will admit
> that I haven't head much about Hamada or Leech. They
> where never talked about in my clay classes (maybe
> because my clay teacher was really a sculptor). I
> promise I never heard of them in my life til I was
> about to graduate college; my last year. I saw this
> tape that the new clay teacher had. I took it home and
> watched it. Leech was on there too. I enjoyed those
> alot. Are Hamada and Leech alive today???? This is sad
> be true you all. Don't feel bad for me but I just
> have alot of learning to do. I'm not saying that to be
> a successful potter I have to know of these 2 men but
> Lord knows that it would have been wonderful to
> learned lots of the things you all have posted to this
> list. Now that doesn't mean that I'm going to crawl
> under a rock because alot of the things talked about
> are over my head. I just means that I have to get
> informed I guess. Truth? I only recently started
> reading my clay books and reading the articles in
> ceramics monthly. Those books use to just sit and
> collect dust. I started picking the books up because
> I'm without a wheel now and just had to stay connected
> with clay in some way. Maybe I don't know much of
> Hamada or Leech now but that doesnt' mean I will stay
> uninformed. One other poster said that maybe the
> teachers should tell the students about these well
> known potters. They won't know unless they are told
> are guilded to it. It worked that way for me. There is
> a word that is scripture in the Bible that says that
> we should "rightly divide the word"(if quoted wrong
> any Christian tell me ok I'm away from my Bible haha).
> Pllleeeeeeeaaaasseeee teachers rightly divide the
> information you have on pottery to your students.
> Don't hold back much. I was so thirsty in school for
> informaton in this craft and I wouldn't get it cuz my
> teacher didnt' know herself. I know that the student
> much try too but goodness if beginning clay students
> could teach themselves we wouldn't need the teachers
> haha. Ok take care you all and blessings.....
>
>
> =====
> Keisha Pegues
> Mound Bayou, Mississippi, U.S.A.
> Peace Be With You
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:59:18 +0100
> From: Alisa Clausen
> Subject: Jared B
>
> Please pray for him, Steven and Ellen's son, Adam's brother. A young =
> person. Please pray for Jared's restored health. Please keep him your =
> thoughts all day. Strengthen his body and empower him by your thoughts.
> from Alisa
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:13:29 -0800
> From: pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
> Subject: A couple Links, one to see an image of the Venus of Dolni
Vestonice,
> and another to read about it's context...
>
> An nice image here, but no text...
>
> http://www.humanities-interactive.org/ancient/iceage/ex038_06c.html
>
>
>
>
>
> And, a Link as has some interesting commentary and
> background text as also addresses Textiles and Weaving,
> Vegetable components of their diet...and Net
> Making for Hunting, Textiles, and other curious things,
> contemporary to
> the Venii:
>
> http://wise.fau.edu/~lanning/ids3932/newwomen.htm
>
>
>
>
> Sorry if this is redundant to previous posts if it is, I was
> web surfing a little last
> night, and seeing if I could find out some things about
> these 'figures'...
>
>
>
> Anyway...
>
> Phil
> Las Vegas
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:37:19 EST
> From: June Perry
> Subject: Hank's show
>
> Hank,
>
> Thank you for posting the link. The tiles are very impressive!
> Can you please share with us how you mounted and hung them.
>
> Warm regards,
> June Perry
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:46:36 EST
> From: Debi Rudman
> Subject: empty bowls information
>
> Hi,
>
> When I was managing the Ceramics Department at duCret School of Art in
> Plainfield, NJ several years ago I did the Empty Bowls program two years
in a row.
> We created t-shirts to sell as well as having the other art students
create
> 'hunger-feeding the hungry" 2-D artwork. I involved the community, Girl
Scout
> troops and others to come make bowls. Also involved an area high school
> nutrition program to make soup and donate bread. It was a wonderful
community
> service program and the empty bowls website also gives interesting ideas.
>
> There's a great website with all the history, information, etc...they even
> send you a bisqued stamp to stamp all your pieces with the empty bowls
symbol.
> It's
> www.emptybowls.net or Click here: Empty Bowls Official Web Site
>
> Good luck with your program!
>
>
> Debra Lampert-Rudman
> See my Ceramic Art at
> www.potterypup.com
> A Division of DJL Design
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 06:49:49 -0600
> From: mel jacobson
> Subject: LEACH
>
> i have written the word leach 500 times on a piece
> of paper.
> i have sat on the john and repeated 500 times.
> `i will not misspell bernard leach's name....ever again.`
> i have had ample opportunity to do that over the past week.
>
> i will not have any bad thoughts about agnes purdy, the meanest
> son of a bitch english teacher in the world. anyway, it was her
> fault for making fun of my spelling. i still flare when it is corrected.
>
> the gastric flare-up is gone.
> i think i am back with the living.
> thanks for those that have given me hope.
> it is not easy.
> mel
> listened to a great interview with steven j. cannell, the author last
week.
> he has made about 50 million dollars with his writing. 17 books, 200
articles,
> over 50 tv series..(rockford files) and, he cannot write.
> he is seriously learning disabled. dyslexic...serious. he types his
> material on an
> old royal typewriter and pays a woman to re/write. he cannot spell. it
is
> all phonetic
> writing. he claims he writes for 7 hours a day. on schedule. and you
> know what?
> he has stories to tell.
>
>
>
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:00:15 +0900
> From: Lee Love
> Subject: Re: Tradition
>
> Kathy Forer wrote:
>
> > The thing about tradition is that there also needs to be rebellion to
> > keep it vital.
>
>
> But the key is, you have to have a tradition to rebel against.
> Without a foundation, it is too easy to become self-absorbed and
> narcissistic.
>
> Hamada said that the way for the modern studio craftman is to
> completely digest a tradition and make something new.
>
> I don't kinow if rebellion is as important as being genuine.
>
> Lee In Mashiko
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:03:07 -0500
> From: Carole Fox
> Subject: Plate setters/rascal ware???
>
> Does anyone care to comment on the different kinds of plate setters
> available? In the archives, it was mentioned that those plate setters that
> are modular and support the rim were not the most desirable. But then
there
> are one piece units with holes in the middle, and also one piece units
that
> are solid. I fire to cone 6 oxidation, if that makes any difference. I am
> thinking to buy the 15" setters in the Axner catalogue. Gosh, they are a
lot
> of moolah- $18.95 each. I bet David made his own.
>
> And... isn't anybody going to say anything about that strange write up ( I
> don't even know what to call it!) on "Georgette Ore" and her "rascal ware"
> in the last CM? (p.17)
> Carole Fox
> Silver Fox Pottery
> Elkton, MD
> thesilverfox@dol.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:18:19 -0500
> From: Kathi LeSueur
> Subject: Re: hamada/leech tradition-rightly divide
>
> As revered as Leach and Hamada are in the tradition of ceramics, and as
> well known and respected as they are to many of us on list, I would be
> willing to bet that neither would make the cut in a jury of a top art
> fair today unless the jurors had been clued in as to who they are. That
> is unfortunate. On the other hand, I was once tempted to slip in slides
> of paintings by G. Harvey ( a wonderful Texas artist who's use of light
> in incredible) to see if the jury would allow "cowboy" art in the show.
>
> I have come to hate the jury system and its' dictating of what is good
> and what is bad. On the other hand I don't know what to replace it with.
>
> Kathi
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:56:54 -0500
> From: william schran
> Subject: Re: Pyrometers and Raku?
>
> Susan wrote:>I don't understand why people don't seem to use cones
> with Raku firing.... There are enough instances where pyrometers are
> not accurate and they have no way of measuring "heat work", just
> absolute temperature..... Is there some reason why people choose to
> avoid using cones in Raku firings?<
>
> Yes, you're correct, cones measure "heat work", but they are only
> accurate if the temperature rise is a specific amount of rise over a
> specific amount of time. The cones will bend at a higher or lower
> temperature if the temperature rises faster or slower than the
> specifications written by the manufacturer. In this instance, when a
> firing takes less than an hour, I would think a pyrometer might
> provide a better device for judging temperature.
>
> This is all just my opinion, because I have never used either one for
> my raku firings - I just look at the glaze melt on the pots. When we
> get cranking during our summer raku class, we've had firings towards
> the end of the night down to 15 minutes!
>
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:13:58 -0600
> From: Arnold Howard
> Subject: Re: I have a new electric kiln....(moth balls)
>
> Roxanne, it is dangerous to use moth balls in kilns. I do not recommend
it.
>
> I know of people who have successfully reduced in an electric kiln using a
> sagger to contain the reduction atmosphere. However, subjecting elements
to
> a reduced atmosphere will shorten their life.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P.
> arnoldhoward@att.net
>
> From: "Ross and Rox" <555jesswein@CHARTER.NET>
> I got a Skutt with the special elements that allow me to fire consistantly
> to Cone 10. They are coated, I believe. (KM-1227PK, 9.92 cu. ft. 240V:
60
> Amps, 14300 Watts Cone 10, 2350 degrees)
> Would these special elements allow me to somewhat safely apply a bit of
> reduction, like with moth balls? Or would this damage the elements?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:18:28 -0600
> From: Arnold Howard
> Subject: Re: Need help with thermocouple
>
> Joanne, remove the two wires from the old thermocouple and attach them to
> the new one. Don't worry if you attach the wires to the wrong screws. If
you
> make a mistake, the temperature will go down instead of up. In that case,
> reverse the wires.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P.
> arnoldhoward@att.net
>
> From: "Joanne Fuller"
> > My husband bought a thermocouple for me from Stan Pawlak on Ebay, but I
> cannot figure out how to wire it. > Joanne Fuller
> .com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:40:42 -0500
> From: John Jensen
> Subject: Famous?
>
> A group of young potters at NCECA a few years back was accosting passing
> conventioneers and asking them if they were famous. I guess they'd had
> a good little ingestion of beers and were feeling frisky. Anyway, the
> upshot of this little tale is that I let them settle on me as a famous
> person and for about ten minutes I was signing autographs and "acting
> famous." Really silly but it was fun. So maybe famous can be defined
> by the extent to which one is asked to sign autographs (in airports?)
>
> John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
> mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:29:23 -0500
> From: Allyson May
> Subject: Paul Lewing-NCECA
>
> Hey Paul,
> I will be working the information booth on the first day of NCECA. If =
> you find out what room Clayart will be in let me know and I will make =
> sure that info is available at the information desk.
> Peace,
> Allyson May
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:45:35 -0600
> From: Craig Dunn Clark
> Subject: was raku question newbie.....now raku fashion/protective
clothing.
> Don't wear shots. Quite dangerous
>
> Susan, I was happy to stay out of this one until I read the sentence
> about shorts somehow being OK when firing raku depending upon the type of
> kiln that is being used. This is an INANE statement. If one wants to
engage
> in foolish activities on ones own personal time in ones own personal
studio
> so be it. I have personally done so. Openly admit how DUMB it was and is.
> However, the public realm is an entirely different place.
> To suggest to a beginner that somehow shorts are OK for firing raku is
> irresponsible at best! It is foolish! Why on earth would someone not want
to
> protect their skin when handling pots with molten glaze on them? If the
> molten glaze comes in contact with exposed skin the skin is PEELED away.
> OUCH!!!!
> I've often stated that ignorance is bliss. But when it comes to safety
> with 1800 degree pots it is just plain dangerous. The type of kiln will
> indeed affect how much heat an individual is exposed to when the door or
lid
> is opened or the cylinder/whatever shape is raised. A critically dangerous
> point is when the pot is in the air held by tongs prior to going into post
> firing reduction. Folks who aren't that experienced don't have much skill
> with tongs. Group firings are inherently more dangerous, not less, than
> those conducted by the lone potter who knows what she is doing.
> Since you mentioned one anectdotal example I will site my own. At a
> small university in my neck of the woods the adjunct clay instructor was
> running free and loose with safety when firing raku. Somehow the idea of
> using the proper protective clothing ran against his macho. I complained
to
> him to no avail so I then informed the department chair who instructed the
> man to make sure that safety gear was worn. He started making the students
> wear protective clothing, head to toe, but still resisted wearing them
> himself. He mumbled some drivel about it being to hot and uncomfortable.
> One day while demostrating a firing the knucklehead ended up slipping,
> still don't know how that happened, lost his grip of the tongs which
> subsequently landed across the upper part of his chest and lower neck as
he
> fell onto his back. That happened about fifteen years ago. To this day the
> man has a scar to remind him of the poor example that he was setting. Hurt
> like hell to.
> Rant Over
> Craig Dunn Clark
> 619 East 11 1/2 st
> Houston,Texas 77008
> (713)861-2083
> mudman@hal-pc.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Setley"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Â Â Â Re: â? â? â? Re: Raku Newbie Question
>
>
> > In a message dated 2/4/04 5:49:36 PM, lkneppel@ROCKYRAKU.COM writes:
> >
> >
> > > Excellent suggestions from Susan! I might add:
> > >
> > > Heavy jacket of non-flammable material (murder on a hot summer day,
but
> > > better than getting burned)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Honestly I don't think they're necessary. I fire at a public facility
and
> > they have to be insurance conscious. No one has ever been burned
anywhere
> that a
> > jacket would have protected.
> >
> > "Shoes not sandals or bare feet."
> >
> >
> > That's a REALLY good point. We don't let people help with the firing in
> any
> > way (including handling lids for the cans) in sandals. Depending on the
> type of
> > kiln you have, long pants might be a good idea. Our kiln has a door that
> > raises and lowers (not the whole kiln raising and lowering), so it's
like
> a blast
> > furnace when it's opened.
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:18:40 EST
> From: Kevin Ritter
> Subject: Wholesale question
>
> I have a gallery that placed an order, after receiving it, the woman
called
> and said she didn't like two of the pieces, one had a "funny mark in the
glaze"
> the other for undetermined reasons. I didn't question her, my thinking
> being, as my customer she has the right to return anything she doesn't
like and
> have it replace. I told her I would issue a call tag, she said the pieces
were
> packed and ready to go. I immediately sent two replacement pieces without
the
> "funny" marks in the glaze.
>
> When to box arrived with the offending pieces, one was completely smashed,
> the other somehow made it, they were so poorly packed I'm not sure they
would
> have made it if they were hand carried the whole way. The insurance will
not
> cover the loss because they were "improperly packed" which I agree with.
My
> point is that I should not have to absorb the loss because of her lack of
concern
> about handling my work.
>
> The question is, should I require her to pay for the piece or should I
just
> chalk it up as one more loss? I'm sure if I broke something in her
gallery, I
> would have to pay. Any guidance would be appreciated.
>
> Thank,
> Kevin
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:27:59 -0500
> From: "E.G. Yarnetsky"
> Subject: photo set up thank you all
>
> Hi !
>
> Just got back our first set of slides taken at home and thanks to all
> the info on this list and through the archives, they are usable! We
> still want to improve them, but we are happy with our first attempt. I
> am in the process of moving from doing shows to wholesale/retail.
> Still apply to a few outdoor shows and the first had a deadline of Feb.
> 4. Was planning to work on learning the photo shooting later this year,
> but our hand was forced. Thanks to the ice storm we couldn't make the
> 45 minute drive to our photographer early enough for the turnaround
> time needed.
>
> Went up to Lowe's (just got one a few months ago) got some lights,
> picked up some nylon at Wally world and started experimenting.
> Couldn't get the formica in less than 2 weeks, no one had the 1/8 inch
> board either so tried at first with a wide shade. Not bad, but shade
> was too close to white.
>
> After two days of trying to make it work, and more ice followed by
> snow, we gave in and ordered a vinyl black to white backdrop which was
> shipped UPS. Was able to work with it best on a partly cloudy day, but
> with windows on three sides, there were still a few reflections more
> than I wanted, but will try to build a more permanent setup (big
> enclosure needed to block out and or diffuse light- pieces are large -
> some over 20") Small pieces worked easily with the shade and a few
> lights. It was the size that made the gradation (black to white) hard.
> Suspect the grey formica would have worked if we could have gotten it
> in in time.
>
> Photos were done with a digital camera and processed by Kinetic in
> Louisville, KY. This is the lab our photographer uses, and the one we
> have always gotten slide duplicates from. They did a great job with
> very little turnaround time.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has posted all the info and photos!!!!!! We are
> learning, thanks to you!
>
> Darlene Yarnetsky, Mudcat Pottery
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 08:40:42 -0500
> From: "E.G. Yarnetsky"
> Subject: greenish zinc oxide
>
> Hi - It seems that all the zinc I used as a student had the greenish
> tint (12 years ago) Some that I got from a friend of a retired potter
> was also this color. Had no problems with it. Perhaps though the
> white has been calcined and the green has not? Just guessing - I would
> ask my supplier if their source has changed.
>
> Darlene Yarnetsky
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:24:07 +0100
> From: Russel Fouts
> Subject: Calculating Sintering temperature for a glaze
>
> This is the formula out of Cardew's "Pioneer Pottery"
>
> I want to know the sintering temperature for my glaze.
>
> Tamman (sintering) Temperature of Maiolica Glaze
>
> ((Fusion Temp of Glaze + 273 to convert to Kelvin) x (0.55 or 0.6)) - 273
> to convert back to Celsius
>
> I come up with the following:
> 0.55 = 454.65
> 0.6 = 520.80
>
> However the glaze does not sinter between these temperatures. I'm trying a
> higher test tonight.
>
> Have I miscalulated or is this formula for something more "unified" than a
> glaze slop? He gives it for ceramic materials and clays.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Russel
>
>
>
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>
> Http://www.mypots.com
> Home of "The Potters Portal"
> Over 2300 Pottery Related Links!
> Updated frequently
>
> My work can also be seen on:
> The World Crafts Council International Site: http://www.wccwis.gr
> The World Crafts Council Belgium Site: http://wcc-bf.org (English Pages)
> EasyCraft: http://www.easycraft.org
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
> we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only
> unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
> public." --U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) Theodore
> Roosevelt.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:39:22 +0100
> From: Russel Fouts
> Subject: 5th Annual Clayart Slide Workshop, Update
>
> I forgot to mention, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN ANY FORM
> PLEASE SEND ME AN EMAIL SO I CAN ESTIMATE THE SIZE OF THE ROOM NEEDED.
>
> Several people have suggested that if I can't get anyone to bring their
> setup that slides of people's setups would be an idea.
>
> I'm really holding out for a couple/three people to bring their setups or
a
> simplified version there of. I think the hands on aspect will be very
> important. However, if we find that that is not possible then it will be
> slides by all means.
>
> Someone also asked if we were going to show slides of work, booths,
> production, etc. If we get to demo the shooting setups, I don't think
there
> will be time. But we could do that next year.
>
> You see, I'm being stubborn. I really think that if people could get some
> hands on experience of a couple of shooting setups, it would really go a
> long way.
>
> Thanks
>
> Russel
>
> I've included my original message below
>
> -------------------------------------
> You knew it was coming. ;-)
>
> I'm planning to have it, as always on the Thursday night, after the
> Randall Session. Generally we try to have it in the Clayart Room but it
> hasn't always worked out. If the location changes we will do our best to
> get the info out. Even with last minute venue changes, the workshop has
> always been well attended, so I think we've managed pretty well here.
>
> I would like the workshop to have a different focus this year. Many
> people commented last year that the quality of the slides has improved
> greatly since the first one. This is good, we've all done our job well
> and we have a lot of people to thank.
>
> A number of you have sent in either written or photographic examples of
> your "shooting" setup. Michael Coffee and John Hesselberth come to mind.
> I've already talked to John but he's already over commited for this
> NCECA and unfortunatly won't be able to bring his.
>
> I would like some of you to volunteer to bring your "rig" to NCECA and
> demo it for the clayarters. Show how it's set up, how to arrange the
> lights, the backdrop, etc.
>
> I'm looking for 2 or 3 people. We'll set each up in a corner of the room
> and run it like the "Tool Doctors" workshop several years ago. The demos
> would be simultaneous and clayarters could move from demo to demo ask
> questions and maybe even try them out.
>
> I think people will be interested in both professional and "amateur" set
> ups so let's see what turns up.
>
> Clayarters are hands on people and I think this would really be a
> benefit and a lot of fun.
>
> If people need to ship equipment, I have family in Indy and perhaps they
> could receive the "goods". That way you wouldn't have to bring it on the
> plane if that was your only means. Hopefully, we'll get volunteers that
> can drive their setups to NCECA.
>
> I'm sure we can arrange tables for you to set up on so you wouldn't have
> to bring those.
>
> In addition to the 2 or 3 demonstrators, if someone wanted to bring and
> demo some nifty accessory, like the Lite Cube currently being discussed,
> that would be great.
>
> Any way, there it is. The idea isn't completely worked out yet but let's
> see if we get some bites.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Russel
>
> --
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>
> Http://www.mypots.com
> Home of "The Potters Portal"
> Over 1800 Pottery Links!
> Updated frequently
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
> or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong,
> is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
> to the American public."
>
> U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) Theodore Roosevelt.
>
>
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>
> Http://www.mypots.com
> Home of "The Potters Portal"
> Over 2300 Pottery Related Links!
> Updated frequently
>
> My work can also be seen on:
> The World Crafts Council International Site: http://www.wccwis.gr
> The World Crafts Council Belgium Site: http://wcc-bf.org (English Pages)
> EasyCraft: http://www.easycraft.org
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
> we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only
> unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
> public." --U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) Theodore
> Roosevelt.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:52:47 -0800
> From: Jon Pacini
> Subject: Re: leaky weepy pots/ COE's
>
> Greetings All, Hi Ron----
>
> No, I'm not confusing them at all. Nor am I confusing the fact that bodies
> with greater than 3% absorption may leak as Tom Buck has mentioned. I
would
> agree that 3% absorption is an optimum for stoneware clay that is intended
> to hold fluid. I do not agree that that percentage should be the defining
> point of stoneware.
>
> You have mentioned references that give 'vitreous' and '1 to 2 percent' as
> optimum definitions for stoneware. My experience has shown that stoneware
> with a very low absorption level is prone to dunting and bloating faults.
> Particularly in reduction. That is not to say they should not be used or
> cannot be used. Many potters and manufacturers use them very successfully.
I
> don't think it is up to a supplier to limit someone's access to specific
> clay because it is out side of some arbitrary parameter. You will note I
> did include those low percentages in my original post.
>
> No, I don't think I would agree that the majority of clay that Laguna
> produces is used for 'functional ware by potters'. Functional potters, on
> the other hand, do dominate Clayart. I don't mean that in a derogatory way
> of course, but I hear that particular comment quite often. They do seem to
> be the majority on Clayart. And though the views held by functional
potters
> may be valid for their particular field of endeavor, they do not always
hold
> true for other members of the clay community. As a supplier, we must meet
> the entire communities needs.
>
> I would agree that potters should be knowledgeable enough about their
> materials to know what they are purchasing and that suppliers be
forthright
> with information about the products they produce. However I do not believe
> that as suppliers we are educators. I know I differ with you on that
note.
> I believe Educators should be educators and that's were potters should
look
> to be educated.
>
> Laguna's catalog does list the characteristics for bodies at ^06, 5 and
10.
> This does not mean that is the 'optimum' temperature for every one of
those
> bodies nor are the listings necessarily the 'optimum' level of absorption
> and shrinkage for every clay listed. The reason I use the term 'optimum'
is
> because I find that the 'optimum' use varies from potter to potter. It may
> be that potters you talk to all fire the same and use clay in the same
> manner, but the ones I talk to are all over the place. For example, many
> potters fire the ^10 bodies to ^11 or 12. How the bodies survive, I have
no
> idea. When I discuss this particular habit with them, most often I get
the
> comment, "I've been doing it that way for 20 yrs." Personally, years ago
as
> a studio potter, I fired most of the old Westwood bodies that were listed
at
> ^10, to ^9 and felt they were better served at that temperature. And now
> with my work, I rarely fire any clay at it's "recommended temperature".
I'm
> into the Natzler School these days.
>
> We do test clays regularly at the listed temperatures and make
> recommendations as to what you can expect from them at those temperatures.
> As I see it, published charts are simply meant as guides, they are not
> gospel, and Laguna's reflects a particular convention that was inherited
> from 3 or 4 other clay suppliers here in Southern California.
>
> Yes, I would love to have the budget and staff to do gradient bars of
every
> clay Laguna makes and have all that info available. I do not. It's taken
> years to get the COE tests approved. And their value is still being
debated.
> The big discussion being, how do all these numbers we generate, from clay
> samples fired in a kiln here in Laguna's Lab, relate to the firings by the
> consumers of those clays. My experience says they don't relate very well.
> Just too many different techniques in use our there. That is one of the
> reasons our characteristics chart has values + or - 2%. And it is why a
clay
> that works perfectly well for one potter, is a hideous failure for
another.
> Translating these numbers from kiln to kiln and firing cycle to firing
cycle
> just doesn't hold up very well.
>
> So anyway, without digressing too much more from the point, I feel
limiting
> the definition of stoneware to 3% absorption is just too rigid and I don't
> find the support. Even the sources you site are contradictory. Rhode's
> edition states one thing, Hopper's revision another. Hamer and Hamer's
> definition of stoneware/earthenware is so convoluted you could use it to
> support any position. We're just going to have to agree to disagree once
> again.
>
> Till next time----
> Best regards
> Jon Pacini
> Clay Manager
> Laguna Clay Co.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Roy [mailto:ronroy@ca.inter.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:51 PM
> To:
> Cc: Jon Pacini
> Subject: Re: leaky weepy pots/ COE's
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> Yes - we have been down this road before - and will be again. Would it be
> fair to say we are both slow learners?
>
> I call a stoneware body with 8% absorption underfired - and it will leak -
> same with 5% absorption.
>
> Perhaps you are confusing - stoneware clay and stoneware bodies - not the
> same thing at all.
>
> Should we not - as clay suppliers - assume that the majority of the clays
> we make will be used to make functional ware? If not are we not obligated
> to inform those who do make functional ware which clays are and at what
> temperature they are suitable - seems pretty basic to me.
>
> Here are some references for you re absorption of stoneware bodies.
>
> Cardew - Pioneer Pottery - page 61 "should be well vitrified and non
> porous" he also notes not over vitrified as that leads to a weaker
product.
>
> Clay and Glazes - Rhodes/Hopper page 96 - stoneware ware should be nearly
> virious.
>
> Hamer - 4th edition - page 260 - stoneware bodies - slight porosity is
> desirable 1 to 2 %.
>
> This particularly important since the advent of the Microwave oven.
>
> I would think that any clay manufacturer that sells clay with a cone range
> of over 2 should warn their customers - it will leak at certain
> temperatures or be overfired - or at least give some indication of
> absorbancy at each recommended cone.
>
> Then each type of potter - functional or non functional will have a decent
> chance of buying a suitable product.
>
> RR
>
>
> >> 8% must be a typing error - the definition of stoneware - is a clay
> having
> >> less than 3% absorbancy at the top temperature - and it will not leak -
> >> even if the glaze is not perfect.
> >>
> >> To imply that stoneware clay is OK if the absorbency is above 3% is to
> >> ignore the basic requirements for truely functional ware - especially
> when
> >> much functional ware will be used in a microwave oven.
> >>
> >Hi Ron ---Greetings All----Well , the vast majority of definitions of
> >earthenware state the absorbency at 10 -15%. So what do you call a body
> that
> >is fired to stoneware temperatures and has an absorbency rate between 11%
> >and 6%. I call the ones over 8% earthenwares and the ones under 8%
> >stonewares. You're always defining everything by functional pottery
> >standards Ron, they are not applicable in all cases.
> >
> >Besides, we've been down this road before. Defining Stoneware at less
than
> >3% absorption flies in the face of just about everybody else's definition
> of
> >stoneware but yours. Peterson Rhodes Hammer I could go on and on all give
> >2-5% as guide for stoneware. Rhodes goes as far as saying 2% is too dense
> >and the body would need to be modified to make it more absorbent.
> >
> >As I say we've been through this discussion on this venue before and if
you
> >want to say that all definitions
> >of clays have to be dependent on function pottery parameters, fine for
you.
> >But you're not going to get me or anybody else who produces other than
> >function pottery to buy into that narrow of a definition.
> >
> >Thanks for the offer of comparing results and calibration techniques, I
may
> >take you up on that offer.
> >
> >Best regards
> >Jon Pacini
> >Clay Manager
> >Laguna Clay Co
>
> Ron Roy
> RR#4
> 15084 Little Lake Road
> Brighton, Ontario
> Canada
> K0K 1H0
> Phone: 613-475-9544
> Fax: 613-475-3513
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:02:03 EST
> From: Susan Setley
> Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20LEACH?=
>
> In a message dated 2/5/04 7:03:40 AM, melpots@PCLINK.COM writes:
>
>
> > listened to a great interview with steven j. cannell, the author last
week=
> .
> > he has made about 50 million dollars with his writing.=A0 17 books,
200=20
> > articles,
> > over 50 tv series..(rockford files) and, he cannot write.
> > he is seriously learning disabled.=A0 dyslexic...serious.=A0=A0 he types
h=
> is
> > material on an
> > old royal typewriter and pays a woman to re/write.=A0 he cannot
spell.=A0=20=
> it is
> > all phonetic
> > writing.=A0 he claims he writes for 7 hours a day.=A0 on schedule.=A0
and=20=
> you
> > know what?
> > he has stories to tell.
> >=20
>
> There are some people who simply can't spell, just as there are some
people=20
> who simply can't carry a tune. If for some reason we were required to sing
o=
> ur=20
> answers on pitch instead of writing them with correct spelling, a
significan=
> t=20
> portion of the population would have been urged to take remedial
singing=20
> lessons.
>
> :)
>
> Interestingly (this is my field) -- dyslexia correlates very highly
with=20
> creativity.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:37:40 -0500
> From: Lucy Reuther
> Subject: Wholesale question
>
> This is my response to the question about how to treat a customer who
> sent back improperly wrapped pieces.
> I would send her a nice note hoping the new pieces were suitable and
> inform her that because of improper packaging both returned pieces were
> damaged and not salvageable. Tell her the delivery company's insurance
> would not cover the cost because of the packaging and you are now out
> the value of the two pieces Give her a chance to do the right thing and
> offer to pay for them. If she does not respond I would then send her a
> bill for the damaged pieces. She may not realize that she did such a
> poor job of packaging and if you wish to do business in the future you
> don't want to alienate her now. However, if she refuses to pay or tries
> to blame you for the damage then I would write her off my customer
> list.
> Hope this helps
> LucyLee
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:59:11 -0500
> From: william schran
> Subject: Re: Wholesale question
>
> Kevin wrote:>The insurance will not cover the loss because they were
> "improperly packed" which I agree with. My point is that I should
> not have to absorb the loss because of her lack of concern
> about handling my work.... The question is, should I require her to
> pay for the piece or should I just
> chalk it up as one more loss?... Any guidance would be appreciated<
>
> Kevin - Though I'm not currently doing any wholesaling or shipping of
> my work - just working with local folks for now - my wife & I did run
> a gallery for 10 years and did run across breakage issues
> occasionally - artists shipping to us. Anything I ever sent out was
> never broken. I always used double boxing, etc. Oh yeah, one thing
> did get broken, but the UPS truck ran over the box! And to further my
> experience, I worked in a UPS shipping hub one summer - lots of boxes
> really get thrown around there.
>
> Anyway, how much are you out - cost of work + shipping? Is it worth
> your time to fight for the money? If not, perhaps a letter to the
> gallery owner explaining the situation asking if she is willing to
> pay for the piece that was broken or at least share in the cost.
>
> Next thing, clearly write in your wholesale agreement/contract, your
> policy for returns. Perhaps "buyer is responsible for return shipping
> and insurance costs" and "all returns must be in original packaging".
> Just some ideas. I remember when we got fragile things shipped to us,
> there was often a similar kind of return policy.
>
> Perhaps if the gallery owner had to pay for return shipping, she may
> have elected to keep the original works.
>
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:17:23 +0100
> From: Russel Fouts
> Subject: Worm Mail
>
> mel,
>
> You just tell those worms to get their own list!
>
> Ru
>
>
> Russel Fouts
> Mes Potes & Mes Pots
> Brussels, Belgium
> Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
> Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
>
> Http://www.mypots.com
> Home of "The Potters Portal"
> Over 2300 Pottery Related Links!
> Updated frequently
>
> My work can also be seen on:
> The World Crafts Council International Site: http://www.wccwis.gr
> The World Crafts Council Belgium Site: http://wcc-bf.org (English Pages)
> EasyCraft: http://www.easycraft.org
>
> "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
> we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only
> unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
> public." --U.S. President (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) Theodore
> Roosevelt.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:24:59 -0800
> From: Laurie Kneppel
> Subject: Re: was raku question newbie....Don't wear shorts. Quite
dangerous
>
> Raku pants. Forgot to mention an observation based on hundreds of
> student raku firings. Better to not wear skin tight jeans when standing
> close to an open raku kiln. The heat goes straight to your skin
> underneath. Very quickly! Loose fitting long pants are much better and
> provide a little air space between the fabric and your skin. One size
> too large sweat pants are my favorite. WITH my dandy kevlar apron over
> everything, of course! I bought the apron from one of the catalog
> ceramic supply companies, can't remember exactly who it was. Cost about
> $45 at the time and hangs to just below my knees (I'm 5'5"). Haven't
> had "hot legs" since I got it.
>
> One time in class the gal on tong duty was wearing loose jeans that had
> just come out of the wash that morning. She thought they were plenty
> dry enough to wear, but they were still slightly damp. When we opened
> the kiln her legs started steaming after a few moments! Her jeans got
> dried real fast, but she got "hot legs" from the steam.
>
> Clayart is great for sharing our experiences. In the "old days" we had
> to learn by doing without any benefit of group experiences to help us
> learn how to be safe.
>
> Raku + common sense safety precautions = FUN!
>
> Laurie
> Sacramento, CA
> http://rockyraku.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:28:41 EST
> From: Barbara Rathbun Hood
> Subject: Re: To Ronroy
>
> Ron Roy,
> Thanks so much for taking the time to send me the info that I asked for.
I
> really appreciate it. As far as the glaze recipes go, I'll try this test
first
> and then, depending on results, may contact you again. I read the posts on
> here often and you certainly share a wealth of knowledge, I've learned a
lot
> from you. Thanks again!
>
> Barbara
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:29:15 EST
> From: Marvpots@AOL.COM
> Subject: Re: Hank's Show
>
> Dear Hank:
> We'll certainly have much to talk about when you are here in May; I have
> been studying your plaques; they are beautiful and I will await your
comments as
> to what they mean to you. I hope the show goes very well for you.
> All the best.
>
> Marvin
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:35:29 -0600
> From: Brooke Fine
> Subject: Pottery books
>
> Overstock.com has a number of pottery books at very reasonable prices
> including 500
> teapots and and 500 bowls at 14.39 each . I think shipping for one item
> is 1.40. No connection
> to the bussiness.
> Brooke Fine
>
http://www.eshop.msn.com/eshopframe.aspx?merchId=2771&catId=2109&u=http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?cid=33233&PAGE=PRODUCT&PROD_ID=192227&fp=F
>
2f%2fwww.overstock.com%2fcgi-bin%2fd2.cgi%3fcid%3d33233%26PAGE%3dPRODUCT%26P
ROD_ID%3d192227%26fp%3dF>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:19:32 EST
> From: Emily Ostroski
> Subject: ...looking for AVERY stash...
>
> Hi guys!
>
> I'm looking for anyone who knows where I might be able to score some
> avery for
> flashing slip, or someone willing to sell me some--so I can produce the
> craziest pieces in my
> studio!! Will pay $$$--please let me know!
>
> Em at UHart, CT
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:32:32 -0800
> From: Sam or Mary Yancy
> Subject: Clay in San Francisco? Adobe clay question and a story
>
> Clay in San Francisco? Adobe clay question and a story
>
>
>
> Question for the experts. Do any of you know if adobe clay was ever used
and/or fired for pots and bowls and so on or not? Reason is that I have
used it for making adobe bricks that are still standing after 50+ years but
never for pots and such - and have never fired it.
>
>
>
> My story if you are interested (Clay in San Francisco):
>
>
>
> Back in the late 40's my dad and one of his old friends bought two houses
in a "row" of five or six new houses on "Red Rock Hill" south of the "Twin
Peaks" hill in San Francisco CA. The houses were all in a row and stuck
together like condos today. The area was very sparsely populated at the time
and the street (Diamond street) went to dirt road a block from our house.
In any case, the back yards sloped up quite high. The ground was "red
colored shale and rock covered. Nothing but trash grass and bushes grew on
the land. Since I was just starting summer vacation, my dad "volunteered" me
to clean up the back yards and build terraces.
>
>
>
> Once I got though the shale and few large rocks, about 4-6 inches down I
came across all adobe clay in both back yards. The clay was very-very hard
and the only way to dig it was to water soak it one day, and scrape some off
the next, than water again. The clay was yellow/orange in color and when wet
very slippery, sticky and HEAVY. I used to clay to make hundreds of adobe
bricks with a wood form and some of the trash grass and weeds in the area.
Then I used these bricks to make the terraces (four in our back yard, two
the next doors back yard). I covered the next doors walls with about an inch
of smooth cement. I covered our adobe walls with cobble stones that I got
from downtown streets that they were replacing with cement asphalt. Bent the
frame on an old Buick that a friend of mine had carrying those cobble stones
(VERY HEAVY). Anyway the walls were done - took more thay six months - also
worked after school - and they still stand today. One of the funny things I
came across when
>
> digging was a water spring about three feet down in our back yard.
Planted an apple tree over the spring and we had the best apples I ever ate.
Made great apple pie. Nothing else ever grew well there and even with top
soil the adobe would creep up over a couple of years. If you want to know
where this was done, it was in San Francisco on 1536 and 1534 Diamond
street. Lots of adobe clay up there.And I made $75!!
>
> Sam in Daly City
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:33:07 -0800
> From: Hank Murrow
> Subject: Re: Hank's show
>
> On Feb 5, 2004, at 4:37 AM, June Perry wrote:
> > Thank you for posting the link. The tiles are very impressive!
> > Can you please share with us how you mounted and hung them.
>
> Dear June;
>
> I cut some marine plywood boards, 1/2" thick x 1.5" smaller than the
> tiles. Glued sew-on beige Velcro loop tape 1.5" wide around the
> periphery, and glued sew-on beige Velcro hook tape to the tiles in the
> same location with E-6800 clear adhesive. Let dry overnight, drywall
> screwed the boards to the wall, then placed the velcro-backed tiles
> centered on the boards and pressed them in tightly. 20# tiles hang very
> securely this way. Would take an earthquake or more to bring them down.
> For the brick walls, we did everything the same except adding screw
> eyes to the edge of the plywood to attach the wire hooks to that hang
> from a picture rail above. The show went up from start to finish in
> three hours. There are some tricks to the gluing of the velcro sew-on
> hook & loop, anyone interested should mail me privately.
>
> Cheers, Hank
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:42:56 -0600
> From: John Rodgers
> Subject: Re: Wholesale question
>
> You probably will have to bite the bullet on this one, or lose a customer.
>
> Here are some "after the fact" comments about things you probably have
> thought of by now.
>
> One: You should have received back the returned goods before shipping
> the replacements.
> Two: You should have had better return policy, in place in writing, sent
> to all customers before the fact.
> Three: Replacements should always be billed, regardless, including
> freight and insurance.
> Four: Any action on works already shipped and invoiced should be
> handled strictly as separate issues from the replacement shipments.
> Five: A formal credit document should be issued on any returned items,
> minus any actionable amounts. DO NOT deduct the amount of the invoice
> for the returned item(s) from any later invoices.
>
> By separating the activity between the two shipments, they also become
> separate issues if things go to hell in a handbasket and you wind up in
> court over it. On the one hand you have an item that was returned for
> whatever reason, and that can legitimately be arugued over. However, the
> second item, which was shipped and invoiced separately, and hopefully
> received properly, is a completely separate purchase, not "just a
> replacement". You will have the law on your side in that case. But for
> the former, you could very well lose the dispute in court.
>
> You could just excercise the option of just letting it all go, and
> chalking it up to experience, and getting a good program into place to
> cover any future difficulties. This probably is the better choice.
>
> As the little boy sez " Youse makes youse choices, takes youse chances,
> and pays for youse experience!"
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> Chelsea, AL
>
>
>
> Kevin Ritter wrote:
>
> >I have a gallery that placed an order, after receiving it, the woman
called
> >and said she didn't like two of the pieces, one had a "funny mark in the
glaze"
> >the other for undetermined reasons. I didn't question her, my thinking
> >being, as my customer she has the right to return anything she doesn't
like and
> >have it replace. I told her I would issue a call tag, she said the
pieces were
> >packed and ready to go. I immediately sent two replacement pieces
without the
> >"funny" marks in the glaze.
> >
> >When to box arrived with the offending pieces, one was completely
smashed,
> >the other somehow made it, they were so poorly packed I'm not sure they
would
> >have made it if they were hand carried the whole way. The insurance will
not
> >cover the loss because they were "improperly packed" which I agree with.
My
> >point is that I should not have to absorb the loss because of her lack of
concern
> >about handling my work.
> >
> >The question is, should I require her to pay for the piece or should I
just
> >chalk it up as one more loss? I'm sure if I broke something in her
gallery, I
> >would have to pay. Any guidance would be appreciated.
> >
> >Thank,
> >Kevin
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:46:57 +0100
> From: Alisa Clausen
> Subject: traditons of old and new
>
> Dear Mel and Clayart,
> I do not think traditions die out.
>
> They fade and become essentially defunct, however are still a kernel
> imbedded in the new ways.
>
> I strongly believe that we are in a constant linking motion, that braids,
> sieves, and mixes in new material, evolving as new traditions for
> cultures and subcultures. Subcultures that were formed the same way by
> preceding main cultures.
>
> best regards from Alisa in Denmark
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:10:24 EST
> From: Susan Setley
> Subject:
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20was=20raku=20question=20n?=
>
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?ewbie.....now=20raku=20fashion/protective=20clothing.=20D?=
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?on't=20wear=20shots.=20Quite=20dangerous?=
>
> In a message dated 2/5/04 8:44:43 AM, mudman@HAL-PC.ORG writes:
>
>
> > =A0 =A0 Susan, I was happy to stay out of this one until I read the
senten=
> ce
> > about shorts somehow being OK when firing raku depending upon the type
of
> > kiln that is being used. This is an INANE statement.
> >=20
>
> Well thank you. ;)
>
> I know professional potters who do it in shorts. I didn't say it was
"safe;"=
> =20
> I said I know some people who do it.
>
> Anyone who saw all the discussions of fire retardant clothing, etc., are
the=
> =20
> inane ones if they conclude that they should pull hot objects out of a
hot=20
> kiln with fire gloves on -- and shorts.
>
> Good heavens -- get a grip. This is a BULLETIN board, and things don't
alway=
> s=20
> come across perfectly.
>
> If you don't want to be told to get a grip, don't call people "inane"
for=20
> reporting what others have done.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:10:23 -0600
> From: mel jacobson
> Subject: Fwd:
>
> >Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:04:21 -0800
> >Subject:
> >From: Lana Wilson
> >To: melpots@pclink.com
> >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553)
> >X-Loop-Detect: 1
> >X-Spam-Rating: 0.0000000000%
> >
> >Dear Mel Jacobsen,
> >Here is the final tally from CERF. I am so proud of what ClayArt folks
did
> >and thoroughly appreciative. Please send it out for me.
> >26 donors contributed $1,720. Please pass along our thanks to everyone
who
> >participated. It's wonderful to have many new donors particularly at a
> >time when we're hearing from so many other needing our support. Thanks
> >again, Cornelia Carey, Exexutive Director of CERF.
> >
> >My thanks again,
> >Lana Wilson
> >
> >
> >_____________________________________________________ This message
scanned
> >for viruses by CoreComm
> >