L. P. Skeen on mon 16 feb 04
I have a 6cube electric Paragon with a kiln vent of the type that sucks =
air through from the bottom. It's located in the garage studio attached =
to my house. I"d like to be able to pull the hose inside the garage and =
shut the door while the kiln is still hot, to take advantage of that =
heat to warm the place up, but I definitely don't wanna blow nasties =
into the studio. So, when do the nasties stop?
Thanks
L
L. P. Skeen www.living-tree.net
Living Tree Pottery, Summerfield, NC
"There are three kinds of men. The ones who learn by reading, and the =
few who learn by observation. The rest of them have
to pee on the electric fence."------- Will Rogers (att.) =20
Ron Roy on tue 17 feb 04
Hi Lisa,
I think it's safest to assume there are fumes all the time the kiln is firing.
Wax at the beginning and all kinds of other stuff all the way through.
Manganese fumes, as does chrome and lead during a glaze firing and
certainly all kinds of organics coming off during a bisque firing
I would think it's OK to turn the vent off after the temperature has
dropped 100C after the kiln is turned off.
Slower cooling is probably the best way so I don'r recommend having a vent
on after the kiln is off. The heat from cooling will stay in the garage
anyway - even if you don't use the vent system.
RR
>I have a 6cube electric Paragon with a kiln vent of the type that sucks
>air through from the bottom. It's located in the garage studio attached
>to my house. I"d like to be able to pull the hose inside the garage and
>shut the door while the kiln is still hot, to take advantage of that heat
>to warm the place up, but I definitely don't wanna blow nasties into the
>studio. So, when do the nasties stop?
>
>Thanks
>L
>
>
>
>L. P. Skeen www.living-tree.net
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Arnold Howard on tue 17 feb 04
I suggest that you not use the kiln vent to heat the garage. I don't think
the fumes ever completely go away.
Arnold Howard
Paragon
------------
From: "L. P. Skeen"
I have a 6cube electric Paragon with a kiln vent of the type that sucks air
through from the bottom. It's located in the garage studio attached to my
house. I"d like to be able to pull the hose inside the garage and shut the
door while the kiln is still hot, to take advantage of that heat to warm the
place up, but I definitely don't wanna blow nasties into the studio. So,
when do the nasties stop?
Steve Mills on wed 18 feb 04
In message , L. P. Skeen writes
>I have a 6cube electric Paragon with a kiln vent of the type that sucks =3D
>air through from the bottom. It's located in the garage studio attached =
>=3D
>to my house. I"d like to be able to pull the hose inside the garage and =
>=3D
>shut the door while the kiln is still hot, to take advantage of that =3D
>heat to warm the place up, but I definitely don't wanna blow nasties =3D
>into the studio. So, when do the nasties stop?
>
Basically when the clay body becomes vitreous. Before that you are
burning out carbon, sulphur, etc.
Steve
Bath
UK
>Thanks
>L
>
>
>
>L. P. Skeen www.living-tree.net
>Living Tree Pottery, Summerfield, NC
>"There are three kinds of men. The ones who learn by reading, and the =3D
>few who learn by observation. The rest of them have
>to pee on the electric fence."------- Will Rogers (att.) =3D20
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Steve Mills on wed 18 feb 04
A further thought:
You could try extending the hose from the extractor so that it coils
around a bit before it goes out of the workshop and acts like a
radiator. The nasties still go out of the room, but (hopefully) the heat
stays in.
Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Mayssan Shora Farra on wed 18 feb 04
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:10:33 -0500, Ron Roy wrote:
>would think it's OK to turn the vent off after the temperature has
>dropped 100C after the kiln is turned off.
>
>Slower cooling is probably the best way so I don'r recommend having a vent
>on after the kiln is off. The heat from cooling will stay in the garage
>anyway - even if you don't use the vent system.
>
>RR
Hello Ron, Vent experts, All:
On the instruction for the envirovent it says to keep the vent on for the
duration, not because it is better for the pottery but because the vent
needs to stay on until the kiln is cooler(for the life of the vent).
Since I have a manual kiln I would love to turn the vent off and do a
soaking but was afraid to do that because of those instructions.
So, is it ok to turn it off? that would really help.
Thanks so much,
Mayssan, in Charleston WV at the beginnig of a glorious day.
Arnold Howard on thu 19 feb 04
The vent motor can overheat if the vent is turned off during firing. From
what I understand, this is because the motor is under the vent holes in the
bottom of the kiln.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
arnoldhoward@att.net
> On the instruction for the envirovent it says to keep the vent on for the
> duration, not because it is better for the pottery but because the vent
> needs to stay on until the kiln is cooler(for the life of the vent).
>
> Since I have a manual kiln I would love to turn the vent off and do a
> soaking but was afraid to do that because of those instructions.
> So, is it ok to turn it off? that would really help.
>
> Thanks so much,
> Mayssan, in Charleston WV
Logan Oplinger on thu 19 feb 04
On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:40:19 +0000, Steve Mills
wrote:
>A further thought:
>
>You could try extending the hose from the extractor so that it coils
>around a bit before it goes out of the workshop and acts like a
>radiator. The nasties still go out of the room, but (hopefully) the heat
>stays in.
>
>Steve
>--
>Steve Mills
>Bath
>UK
Would it be possible to construct a heat exchanger or scavenge one like
used on a gas furnace to bring in fresh air from the outside, or would this
compromise the operation of the vent system?
Logan Oplinger
Another Pacific Island
Michael Wendt on fri 20 feb 04
We always shut the vent fan off before we reach final cone on a load.
We found that the cone in the sitter is chilled by the incoming air stream
and as a result, causes the kiln to fire substantially hotter than when the
vent fan is shut off 1/2 hour before the kiln would normally go down. For
this reason, if you plan to leave the vent fan on the entire time, it is
best to use witness cones for critical firings, but here too, be sure the
peep hole plugs are snug as cold air leaking in around a loose peep hole
plug can chill the cones and give a false reading. In the extreme, I have
seen the cold air leak cause circular cracks in wares placed close to a peep
hole plug when the vent is on.. Since we fire decals as the main use for the
electric, we can really tell well by smell when the organics have finished
burning out so we shut the vent off after that. There is no reason the vent
should be damaged by firing the kiln when it is off unless the design is
faulty in some way.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
in reply to:
Hello Ron, Vent experts, All:
On the instruction for the envirovent it says to keep the vent on for the
duration, not because it is better for the pottery but because the vent
needs to stay on until the kiln is cooler(for the life of the vent).
Since I have a manual kiln I would love to turn the vent off and do a
soaking but was afraid to do that because of those instructions.
So, is it ok to turn it off? that would really help.
Thanks so much,
Mayssan, in Charleston WV
Arnold Howard on fri 20 feb 04
For those on the list who have the Orton downdraft KilnVent, it is okay to
turn off the vent while the kiln is firing. This is because the vent motor
is not positioned under the vent holes in the bottom of the kiln. The motor
won't overheat.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
arnoldhoward@att.net
> On the instruction for the envirovent it says to keep the vent on for the
> duration, not because it is better for the pottery but because the vent
> needs to stay on until the kiln is cooler(for the life of the vent).
>
> Since I have a manual kiln I would love to turn the vent off and do a
> soaking but was afraid to do that because of those instructions.
> So, is it ok to turn it off? that would really help.
>
> Thanks so much,
> Mayssan, in Charleston WV
Ron Roy on sat 21 feb 04
Yes - I should have mentioned that - as Arnold says - the vents that are
attached to the kiln can get over heated. I would say - poor design.
My vent goes on the wall - away from the kiln - and attached with an
aluminum flexible duct.
The last thing you want to do with an electric kiln is cool it faster -
they already cool fast to start with.
You can still soak with the vent on - and you can still slow cool with it
on - it just takes a little more heat.
Remember - if the intake holes or spy holes are closed you are not sucking
much cold air through the kiln - in fact the air used to cool the fan will
be increased - restricting the amount of air being drawn from the kiln will
keep the vent system cooler as well. It's because there is cooling air
entering the vent system where it attaches to the kiln - it must - how else
could it be cool enough.
That right Arnold?
RR
>Hello Ron, Vent experts, All:
>
>On the instruction for the envirovent it says to keep the vent on for the
>duration, not because it is better for the pottery but because the vent
>needs to stay on until the kiln is cooler(for the life of the vent).
>
>Since I have a manual kiln I would love to turn the vent off and do a
>soaking but was afraid to do that because of those instructions.
>So, is it ok to turn it off? that would really help.
>
>Thanks so much,
>Mayssan, in Charleston WV at the beginnig of a glorious day.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Michael Wendt on sat 21 feb 04
The vent fan motor should be at the outside wall blowing outward. That way,
if the exhaust line springs a leak, cool air leaks into the line rather than
the fan blowing exhaust fumes out into the room.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Arnold wrote:
The vent motor can overheat if the vent is turned off during firing. From
what I understand, this is because the motor is under the vent holes in the
bottom of the kiln.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Mayssan Shora Farra on sat 21 feb 04
Thanks Ron:
Yes I agree it is poor design, but at the time I thought it was the best
because it vented the kiln to the ouside directly( Then I read John's
comment about pressure on the pipe going from the vent to the outside and
how it might leak).
In the school I attended the vent was on the ceiling above the kilns with
most the fumes taking a side trip into the studio before they head to the
venting system:).
Had I been on clayart at the time and was aware of all the safty issues my
choice in kiln and vent would have been different.
My next vent would be a Baily that is directly on the outside wall, but I
would like to keep this Orton one for as long as possible, so it will stay
on and I will do the soaking by turning the kiln back on to Med.
Thanks for all the helpful information about safty both ours and our
customers.
Mayssan
http://www.clayvillepottery.com
Russel Fouts on mon 23 feb 04
I never understood the recommendation to keep the vent going the whole time.
I have an orton Environvent that fits under the kiln, the blower is
attached to the side of a plenum that is 50cm x 50cm and 5cm deep. The
plenum has a hole in the top to suck air out of the kiln and a hole in the
side to suck in room air that is mixed with the kiln air before it passes
through the blower into the dryer vent and then outside.
The air in the dryer vent is only slightly warm.
I turn the vent off at temp when the kiln is done firing with no problem. I
don't see how there could be. Even at temp, the air going through the
blower is only slightly warm because it's been mixed with cold room air.
Also when you shut off the vent, the natural draft of the kiln draws cold
air back in through the blower and the plenum into the kiln so the blower
get's cooled that way.
The thing that seems to be wearing the hardest on the blower is the
corrosive gases from the kiln, not the heat.
The only thing I don't like about this vent design is that it draws the air
out of the kiln and pushes it into the dryer hose rather than drawing it
through the whole circuit.
Russel
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
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Arnold Howard on mon 23 feb 04
From: "Ron Roy"
> Remember - if the intake holes or spy holes are closed you are not sucking
> much cold air through the kiln - in fact the air used to cool the fan will
> be increased - restricting the amount of air being drawn from the kiln
will
> keep the vent system cooler as well. It's because there is cooling air
> entering the vent system where it attaches to the kiln - it must - how
else
> could it be cool enough.
>
> That right Arnold?
> RR
Yes. Only a small quantity of air is removed from the kiln. That very hot
air is dilluted with room air so that the temperature inside the vent duct
is 100°F - 150°F.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
arnoldhoward@att.net
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