Vince Pitelka on sat 21 feb 04
> The business of pottery is but a small part of pottery that is neglected
by
> colleges.
> I think that it is fair to say that most of those people teaching have no
> clue about how to make a living making pottery.
Bill -
I really wish we could avoid such statements, or at least frame them to
address the realities of higher education. There is just way too much to
cram into a BFA education, and in many cases marketing and business
practices are sacrificed in order to produce a strong, self-directed,
autonomous artist. It is up to them to take some marketing/business
workshops to make up for what they don't get in college. The Artists
Business Institute (an offshoot of the Rosen Group) offers such seminars
around the country. Here in Tennessee, the Tennessee Association of Craft
Artists offer very good marketing seminars for craft artists.
I do think it is possible to teach studio survival skills in the university
setting, including marketing and business information, plus information on
how to photograph and exhibit work, etc. Our program at the Appalachian
Center for Craft is unusual, because our mission statement proclaims a
primary commitment to the finest professional fine craft education. Our
objective is to send students out as self-confident studio artists.
I think there are quite a few programs around the country where such issues
are properly addressed. It is up to the individual student to find the
program most appropriate for them. If they select an art program in a big
university, then it is unlikely that they are going to get any practical
education in making and marketing utilitarian pottery. That is the
unfortunate reality today.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
L. P. Skeen on sun 22 feb 04
I think that college is not just about becoming an artist, but also about
learning how to make a living. (after all, how many times have we been told
that to make a decent living one needs a college education?) That said,
part of BEING a self directed autonomous artist is knowing how to make a
living as an artist, and that would include some form of business classes.
My BFA program included a requirement for X number of electives. One of
those electives could be changed to non-elective business type course for
artists, and still get in the number of hours required for graduation.
Hell, I was required to take a boatload of "core" classes that did NOTHING
for me as an artist. Any ONE of those could have been replaced with a
required artist business course. At the very least, these workshops you
speak of should be offered by the colleges on weekends or breaks or
whatever.
Unfortunately (or maybe FORTUNATELY) not everyone is on Clayart or a
similar group for whatever art they do. I would never have heard of the
Rosen Group except for Clayart, and I bet I couldn't find 50 artist people
in this state (who aren't on clayart) who HAVE heard of them, or any other
company like them, or courses such as they offer. :(
I think if I was the Rosen Group, come to think of it, I would be getting
the mailing list of every art department of every college (or even high
school!) in the country, and sending every student a brochure.......
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
in many cases marketing and business practices are sacrificed in order to
produce a strong, self-directed,
autonomous artist. It is up to them to take some marketing/business
workshops to make up for what they don't get in college.
Krista Peterson on sun 22 feb 04
> There is just way too much to
>cram into a BFA education, and in many cases marketing and business
>practices are sacrificed in order to produce a strong, self-directed,
>autonomous artist.
I would think a strong, self directed autonomous artist wouldn't have to rely on marrying well. When I ask other artists if they are making it with their art, the #1 answer I get is "No, I married well". Maybe not in those words exactly, but that's the jist of it. That's the only way those people could do what they are doing.
Is it the same way in Europe? I have the impression that artists are subsidized more in Europe than they are here.
Maybe I should have put more thought into choosing a program that covered these issues better, but I think that if you pay as much money as it costs to go to a university one ought to be able to graduate with at least a rudimentary knowledge of the business of art. I think anyone going into college assumes that they will come out with some form of this. And I don't think they're wrong in assuming that. It's not like there's a plethora of jobs out there for artists when they graduate, so they have to make it in the business world.
Take care
Krista Peterson
-----Original Message-----
From: Vince Pitelka
Sent: Feb 21, 2004 5:22 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: The Business of Pottery in College
> The business of pottery is but a small part of pottery that is neglected
by
> colleges.
> I think that it is fair to say that most of those people teaching have no
> clue about how to make a living making pottery.
Bill -
I really wish we could avoid such statements, or at least frame them to
address the realities of higher education. It is up to them to take some marketing/business
workshops to make up for what they don't get in college. The Artists
Business Institute (an offshoot of the Rosen Group) offers such seminars
around the country. Here in Tennessee, the Tennessee Association of Craft
Artists offer very good marketing seminars for craft artists.
I do think it is possible to teach studio survival skills in the university
setting, including marketing and business information, plus information on
how to photograph and exhibit work, etc. Our program at the Appalachian
Center for Craft is unusual, because our mission statement proclaims a
primary commitment to the finest professional fine craft education. Our
objective is to send students out as self-confident studio artists.
I think there are quite a few programs around the country where such issues
are properly addressed. It is up to the individual student to find the
program most appropriate for them. If they select an art program in a big
university, then it is unlikely that they are going to get any practical
education in making and marketing utilitarian pottery. That is the
unfortunate reality today.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
John Rodgers on sun 22 feb 04
Lisa, were it up to me, I would require a basic business principles
course for every freshman entering college, to include principles of
accounting, and marketing, sales, distribution, etc. I look back over my
own life, over my own career and see how badly it was needed. I see
what I might have been able to do had I had just a smidge of knowledge
of such things at the outset of life after college. But in college I got
absolutely none of that. I would change it!!
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
L. P. Skeen wrote:
>I think that college is not just about becoming an artist, but also about
>learning how to make a living. (after all, how many times have we been told
>that to make a decent living one needs a college education?) That said,
>part of BEING a self directed autonomous artist is knowing how to make a
>living as an artist, and that would include some form of business classes.
>My BFA program included a requirement for X number of electives. One of
>those electives could be changed to non-elective business type course for
>artists, and still get in the number of hours required for graduation.
>Hell, I was required to take a boatload of "core" classes that did NOTHING
>for me as an artist. Any ONE of those could have been replaced with a
>required artist business course. At the very least, these workshops you
>speak of should be offered by the colleges on weekends or breaks or
>whatever.
>
>Unfortunately (or maybe FORTUNATELY) not everyone is on Clayart or a
>similar group for whatever art they do. I would never have heard of the
>Rosen Group except for Clayart, and I bet I couldn't find 50 artist people
>in this state (who aren't on clayart) who HAVE heard of them, or any other
>company like them, or courses such as they offer. :(
>
>I think if I was the Rosen Group, come to think of it, I would be getting
>the mailing list of every art department of every college (or even high
>school!) in the country, and sending every student a brochure.......
>
>L
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Vince Pitelka"
> in many cases marketing and business practices are sacrificed in order to
>produce a strong, self-directed,
>autonomous artist. It is up to them to take some marketing/business
>workshops to make up for what they don't get in college.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Kathy Forer on sun 22 feb 04
Marrying well is usually a good thing to do. The alternatives are 'not'
marrying well, which isn't really a good idea and often needs to be
repeated, and not marrying or partnering at all, which can get
tiresome. Having a loving and simpatico mate is very special and
shouldn't be disparaged just because of historical baggage that
packages one mate as active and the other passive.
Marrying well can help your chances at business, even if your partner
writes poems all day and contributes no silver ducats whatsoever to
your enterprise.
Kathy
John Rodgers on sun 22 feb 04
Hmmm. Interesting.
My daughter-in-law, an art major, married well (my son, naturally) but
even to this day she is not an artist full time as one might expect. She
was one who found she could not make a living doing "Art" after
graduation. As a matter of fact, she told me once that the ONLY person
graduating in her class who was an art major, who went on to be an
artist full time, happened to be a younger 2nd cousin of mine, who
studied clay art in school, and is a fulltime, national potter and clay
artist widely recognized in Florida today as one of the Florida Nature
Conservency Artists. . Sheesh!!! One person..........doesn't say much
for success in the arts, does it. She applied her knowledge of art in a
more non-traditional art application. She became a tool salesman for a
big tool distributing company. Traveled all over to big shows. Creating
displays in an artsy way became her thing, and she made plenty of money
at it. But, even so, it was not "Art" in the traditional sense. After
marrying, the traditional "art" still did not support, so she pursued
interior decorating and design, using her skills with form, function,
color, in her newer career. But she still does not do "Art". She says
she never expects to, as it doesn't pay enough. She is a good artist
though. I have seen her painting, and her pen & ink work. If she ever
pursues "art" again in it's traditional form, it will probably be with
her hand drawn note cards. They would be collectibles in themselves. But
she would have to apply all those business skills she learned while a
tools saleman to her note card sales. So there it is.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Krista Peterson wrote:
>>There is just way too much to
>>cram into a BFA education, and in many cases marketing and business
>>practices are sacrificed in order to produce a strong, self-directed,
>>autonomous artist.
>>
>>
>
>I would think a strong, self directed autonomous artist wouldn't have to rely on marrying well. When I ask other artists if they are making it with their art, the #1 answer I get is "No, I married well". Maybe not in those words exactly, but that's the jist of it. That's the only way those people could do what they are doing.
>
>Is it the same way in Europe? I have the impression that artists are subsidized more in Europe than they are here.
>
>Maybe I should have put more thought into choosing a program that covered these issues better, but I think that if you pay as much money as it costs to go to a university one ought to be able to graduate with at least a rudimentary knowledge of the business of art. I think anyone going into college assumes that they will come out with some form of this. And I don't think they're wrong in assuming that. It's not like there's a plethora of jobs out there for artists when they graduate, so they have to make it in the business world.
>
>Take care
>Krista Peterson
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vince Pitelka
>Sent: Feb 21, 2004 5:22 PM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: The Business of Pottery in College
>
>
>
>>The business of pottery is but a small part of pottery that is neglected
>>
>>
>by
>
>
>>colleges.
>>I think that it is fair to say that most of those people teaching have no
>>clue about how to make a living making pottery.
>>
>>
>
>Bill -
>I really wish we could avoid such statements, or at least frame them to
>address the realities of higher education. It is up to them to take some marketing/business
>workshops to make up for what they don't get in college. The Artists
>Business Institute (an offshoot of the Rosen Group) offers such seminars
>around the country. Here in Tennessee, the Tennessee Association of Craft
>Artists offer very good marketing seminars for craft artists.
>
>I do think it is possible to teach studio survival skills in the university
>setting, including marketing and business information, plus information on
>how to photograph and exhibit work, etc. Our program at the Appalachian
>Center for Craft is unusual, because our mission statement proclaims a
>primary commitment to the finest professional fine craft education. Our
>objective is to send students out as self-confident studio artists.
>
>I think there are quite a few programs around the country where such issues
>are properly addressed. It is up to the individual student to find the
>program most appropriate for them. If they select an art program in a big
>university, then it is unlikely that they are going to get any practical
>education in making and marketing utilitarian pottery. That is the
>unfortunate reality today.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Craft
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
>http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Krista Peterson on sun 22 feb 04
I heard the number once, that only 1-2% of the artists out there actually make a living at it. I wonder who they considered an "artist"?
Take care
Krista Peterson
-----Original Message-----
From: John Rodgers
Sent: Feb 22, 2004 10:57 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: The Business of Pottery in College
Hmmm. Interesting.
My daughter-in-law, an art major, married well (my son, naturally) but
even to this day she is not an artist full time as one might expect. She
was one who found she could not make a living doing "Art" after
graduation. As a matter of fact, she told me once that the ONLY person
graduating in her class who was an art major, who went on to be an
artist full time, happened to be a younger 2nd cousin of mine, who
studied clay art in school, and is a fulltime, national potter and clay
artist widely recognized in Florida today as one of the Florida Nature
Conservency Artists. . Sheesh!!! One person..........doesn't say much
for success in the arts, does it. She applied her knowledge of art in a
more non-traditional art application. She became a tool salesman for a
big tool distributing company. Traveled all over to big shows. Creating
displays in an artsy way became her thing, and she made plenty of money
at it. But, even so, it was not "Art" in the traditional sense. After
marrying, the traditional "art" still did not support, so she pursued
interior decorating and design, using her skills with form, function,
color, in her newer career. But she still does not do "Art". She says
she never expects to, as it doesn't pay enough. She is a good artist
though. I have seen her painting, and her pen & ink work. If she ever
pursues "art" again in it's traditional form, it will probably be with
her hand drawn note cards. They would be collectibles in themselves. But
she would have to apply all those business skills she learned while a
tools saleman to her note card sales. So there it is.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Krista Peterson wrote:
>>There is just way too much to
>>cram into a BFA education, and in many cases marketing and business
>>practices are sacrificed in order to produce a strong, self-directed,
>>autonomous artist.
>>
>>
>
>I would think a strong, self directed autonomous artist wouldn't have to rely on marrying well. When I ask other artists if they are making it with their art, the #1 answer I get is "No, I married well". Maybe not in those words exactly, but that's the jist of it. That's the only way those people could do what they are doing.
>
>Is it the same way in Europe? I have the impression that artists are subsidized more in Europe than they are here.
>
>Maybe I should have put more thought into choosing a program that covered these issues better, but I think that if you pay as much money as it costs to go to a university one ought to be able to graduate with at least a rudimentary knowledge of the business of art. I think anyone going into college assumes that they will come out with some form of this. And I don't think they're wrong in assuming that. It's not like there's a plethora of jobs out there for artists when they graduate, so they have to make it in the business world.
>
>Take care
>Krista Peterson
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vince Pitelka
>Sent: Feb 21, 2004 5:22 PM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: The Business of Pottery in College
>
>
>
>>The business of pottery is but a small part of pottery that is neglected
>>
>>
>by
>
>
>>colleges.
>>I think that it is fair to say that most of those people teaching have no
>>clue about how to make a living making pottery.
>>
>>
>
>Bill -
>I really wish we could avoid such statements, or at least frame them to
>address the realities of higher education. It is up to them to take some marketing/business
>workshops to make up for what they don't get in college. The Artists
>Business Institute (an offshoot of the Rosen Group) offers such seminars
>around the country. Here in Tennessee, the Tennessee Association of Craft
>Artists offer very good marketing seminars for craft artists.
>
>I do think it is possible to teach studio survival skills in the university
>setting, including marketing and business information, plus information on
>how to photograph and exhibit work, etc. Our program at the Appalachian
>Center for Craft is unusual, because our mission statement proclaims a
>primary commitment to the finest professional fine craft education. Our
>objective is to send students out as self-confident studio artists.
>
>I think there are quite a few programs around the country where such issues
>are properly addressed. It is up to the individual student to find the
>program most appropriate for them. If they select an art program in a big
>university, then it is unlikely that they are going to get any practical
>education in making and marketing utilitarian pottery. That is the
>unfortunate reality today.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Craft
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
>http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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