Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on mon 1 mar 04
Dear Lee,
I agree with most things you have said regarding using traditional =
methods, as opposed to aquiring gadgets that only accumulate dust when =
found not to work. But centering by small amounts and adding more clay =
etc is like another gadget. Technique - the correct technique for each =
person is the correct way, bracing your elbow into your hip is asking =
for trouble, you will be using too much of your own energy this way as =
it will be at the wrong angle.
Centering large amounts of clay is EASIER than small lumps, as when you =
have a large mass rotating you have oodles of energy free for the potter =
to use, just LIGHTLY deflect the incoming energy with your left hand, =
lightly but firmly anchored on the slop tray or into your side, and you =
are not using your own strength, but the power provided by the rotation =
of the wheel. I use my continental momentum wheel to throw huge bowls - =
up to 120lbs or 55Kgs, now the kicking does take up some energy (not a =
greaqt deal as all the weight is on the edge of the flywheel), but the =
centering is quite easy, and even easier on an electric wheel (that has =
been built specially to cope with large amounts of clay - masses of =
torque), when correct technique is applied.
I have been teaching young and old, infirm (wrist problems etc), tall =
and short how to deal with large amounts of clay, and it all boils down =
to the correct technique, I remember when I first embarked on my =
throwing journey well over 30 years ago, and I relied on my strength. =
Now that I have lesser strength, but a solid technique I throw bigger, =
better and withfar less wasted energy.
It really is a matter of relaxing, using the whole of your body and an =
understanding of Newtonian laws of motion, utilising centrifugal force, =
the idea that clay does not turn corners ( an object put into motion =
continues in a straight line). Do not fight the clay, anger gives way to =
injuries and a loss of focus of energy.
I really do look forward and read all your posts on clayart.
best regards and happy potting Marek www.moley.uk.com
Lee love on mon 1 mar 04
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson wrote:
>Dear Lee,
>
>I agree with most things you have said regarding using traditional methods, as opposed to aquiring gadgets that only accumulate dust when found not to work. But centering by small amounts and adding more clay etc is like another gadget.
>
Greetings Marek!
Not exactly a gadget:: A technique will never take up space, get
dusty in your studio or cost you money. ;-)
I found some photos of the coil and throw technique I will scan
when I get a chance. I was surprised when I visited Shigaraki and
Kanzaki-san explained to me that ALL his work was thrown coil and throw,
even tiny yunomi. In this technique, there is really no centering,
not centering that requires more force than forming.
This also explained to me how the potters of Shigaraki, whose
clay is full of feldspar stones, could make hundreds of pots, day after
day, without grinding the skin off their hands: Soft clay and coil
and throw!
>quite easy, and even easier on an electric wheel (that has been built specially to cope with large amounts of clay - masses of torque), when correct technique is applied.
>
>I have been teaching young and old, infirm (wrist problems etc), tall and short how to deal with large amounts of clay, and it all boils down to the correct technique,
>
...and soft clay. Electric wheels have allowed us to get too used to
clay that is too hard. You can't throw hard clay on a low momentum
kickwheel. It took me two weeks to figure this out (the foreman and
Japanese deshis did not think to tell me.)
>It really is a matter of relaxing, using the whole of your body and an understanding of Newtonian laws of motion, utilising centrifugal force, the idea that clay does not turn corners ( an object put into motion continues in a straight line). Do not fight the clay, anger gives way to injuries and a loss of focus of energy
>
>
Relaxation is important, especially when throwing. A very good
technique to promote relaxation during throwing is diaphragmatic
breathing. If you ever noticed, if we are too caught up in
concentration on some activity, especially thinking about the process,
while we are actually doing it, we tend to hold our breath. When we
hold our breath, we become tense and we loose strength. Following the
breath during throwing is the same as doing zen mediation.
>I really do look forward and read all your posts on clayart.
>
>
And I look forward to yours!
--Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.us "It seems to me what you
lose in mystery you gain in awe" -- Francis Crick
Marek Drzazga on mon 1 mar 04
Dear Lee,
good point about breathing when throwing, I missed that one out - I =
normally include this vital ingredient. Breathing allows the brain to =
aquire the oxygen it needs, and as you say when you tense up, many =
errors will be made, and also much damage to the body can occur.
best regards and happy potting Marek www.moley.uk.com
Leonard Smith on wed 3 mar 04
On Wednesday, March 3, 2004, at 11:17 AM, Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> The idea of bracing one's elbow against ones hip or thigh when
> centring larger masses of clay seems to be fairly universal. No doubt
> many people have sustained some form of injury and more will do so in
> the future.
>
I an reminded here of the experience I had earlier in my career when I
went to watch some big pot throwers at a working pottery in the Sydney
area, I think it was the Mashman's factory on the site of the Chullora
terra cotta pit, that was a very special clay. What astounded me was
they centered big lumps of clay by bracing their left arm into their
hip and centered the clay coming towards them. The wheels ran counter
clockwise. After opening out they would then do all the heavy pulling
up on the left side of the pot using the heel of the left hand and the
knuckle of the right ie again with the clay coming towards them. Once
they had pulled the lump up to height they would then transfer their
hands ie left hand inside and right out and move to the right side of
the pot.
I have seen the same technique used by George Curtis in the English
film I think it was called Big Pot Maker?
I have used it myself and found it a good way to deal with very large
lumps of clay.
I have tried a lot of ways of making big pots and all of them have
their advantages, and whist I admire some one who can put 25kg on the
wheel and throw it, I know I can not and will always have to work out a
another way to do it if I want something that big. My favorite way to
make bigger pots than I would normally is to leave a lot of clay at the
bottom as they do in the middle east and turn the pots over in a chuck
when the the top will support this (this can be hurried with a gas
burner) and opening out the base throwing that clay upwards and closing
the bottom off. The only way i can get those light bases without lots
of turning.
As for a throwing arm, I am in favour of anything that will help
potters to create the things they want to, we all use a variety of
tools and techniques and, just as very few of them are new all of them
are valid methods in a creative process. The way it is made is
unimportant it is what is made that counts
Leonard Smith
Rosedale Street Gallery
2A Rosedale Street
Dulwich Hill NSW 2203
Australia
Snail Scott on wed 3 mar 04
At 04:26 PM 3/3/04 +1100, you wrote:
>...centered big lumps of clay by bracing their left arm into their
>hip and centered the clay coming towards them...
>After opening out they would then do all the heavy pulling
>up on the left side of the pot...Once
>they had pulled the lump up to height they would...
>move to the right side of the pot.
And I thought this was just my own mutant technique,
caused by learning first 'standard'-style, then
Japanese-style, then practicing neither for long
enough to get them confused! ;)
-Snail
Mark & Sylvia Mondloch on wed 3 mar 04
> The idea of bracing one's elbow against ones hip or thigh when
> centering larger masses of clay seems to be fairly universal. No doubt
> many people have sustained some form of injury and more will do so in
> the future.
Hi all,
Since I started this thread, I think maybe I should clarify a bit.
I don't think just the fact that I used that method of centering was the
only cause of my injury. The cause I think was a combination of factors- the
primary one being my own stupidness. I was taking kickboxing classes. I
developed soreness in the left hip but kept going anyway and didn't ease up.
Then I did a marathon throwing- four 30 lb sinks and 5 large 20 lb vases.
Although I am a big believer in using very soft clay, I used it a little
stiffer that day. In defense of my intelligence, I didn't find out that my
bones are osteopenic until after the injury.
I think it's a good thing to have lots of methods available to us for our
particular situations. My main problem was not listening to my own body
giving me warnings. So I don't think this is some inherently bad method, I
did use it for 25 years with no problem. There are many things we do that
can become unsafe if we don't use common sense. My common sense was taking a
break for awhile.
Sylvia
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 3 mar 04
Dear Friends,
The idea of bracing one's elbow against ones hip or thigh when
centring larger masses of clay seems to be fairly universal. No doubt
many people have sustained some form of injury and more will do so in
the future.
Looking at the mechanics it is obvious that all of the pressure from
the hand, through the forearm is concentrated at the point of the
elbow, the "Olecranon" which supports the surface in which the Humerus
articulates. No doubt there are variations in contour but does not
change the fact that the sharp end will act as a point at which
pressure is concentrated.
Perhaps Tom Sawyer or Edouard Bastarache could confirm that
compression fractures may result from point stress on any other bony
structure and that persistent compressive wear on the tissues of the
joint capsule can lead to infirmity.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 4 mar 04
Dear Sylvia,
I hope you are making a rapid recovery and pleased to know you are a
user of soft clay. And an energetic kick boxer as well as an
accomplished potter!
My comment was by way of a generalisation and I hope it will be a spur
to some form of research into ramifications of the differing throwing
techniques.
I was interested in the comment made by some one, of centring mass of
25 kilos of clay on the wheel head. When you consider the changes in
angle and distance which must take place to remain connected to such a
large mass of clay and retain a posture where the elbow connects to
the thigh bone or the iliac crest, then one's body is being put into a
very distorted or contorted form which must impose great stress on the
spine and shoulders.
Just an idle thought,
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark & Sylvia Mondloch"
To:
Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 4:58
Subject: Re: centering arm advice wanted
> > The idea of bracing one's elbow against ones hip or thigh when
> > centering larger masses of clay seems to be fairly universal. No
doubt
> > many people have sustained some form of injury and more will do so
in
> > the future.
>
> Hi all,
> Since I started this thread, I think maybe I should clarify a bit.
>
> I don't think just the fact that I used that method of centering was
the
> only cause of my injury. The cause I think was a combination of
factors- the
> primary one being my own stupidness. I was taking kickboxing
classes. I
> developed soreness in the left hip but kept going anyway and didn't
ease up.
> Then I did a marathon throwing- four 30 lb sinks and 5 large 20 lb
vases.
> Although I am a big believer in using very soft clay, I used it a
little
> stiffer that day. In defense of my intelligence, I didn't find out
that my
> bones are osteopenic until after the injury.
>
> I think it's a good thing to have lots of methods available to us
for our
> particular situations. My main problem was not listening to my own
body
> giving me warnings. So I don't think this is some inherently bad
method, I
> did use it for 25 years with no problem. There are many things we do
that
> can become unsafe if we don't use common sense. My common sense was
taking a
> break for awhile.
>
> Sylvia
>
>
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