Earl Krueger on thu 18 mar 04
On Thursday, Mar 18, 2004, at 07:27 US/Pacific, sharon miranda wrote:
> Over
> a period of time the glaze in the bucket gets these hard, octagonal
> crystals in it, that grow and grow- up to maybe 5 inches across. Quite
> pretty crystals, in fact! Except that in order to use the glaze, of
> course I have to sieve it and throw away the very hard crystals.
Sharon,
Just curious. Will these crystals dissolve in plain water?
If so could you dissolve them in a little water and then add that back
to the glaze. That way you wouldn't lose anything. Except your time,
of course.
Another interesting experiment would be to see if they dissolve in a
little vinegar. That might help in determining what they are.
Earl K...
Bothell, WA, USA
Gene Arnold on thu 18 mar 04
Sharon
I have not given this a try so proceed with caution if you do try. I was
told to sieve out the crystals and put them in a small amount of water and
microwave. So I was told the crystals will dissolve and you can pour them
back into the glaze. I was told that the glaze getting cold was what turned
the lithium into crystals.
As I said I have not tried this, maybe someone out there has and can confirm
this or say it ain't so.
Gene & Latonna
mudduck@mudduckpottery.com
www.mudduckpottery.com
Ron Hollister on thu 18 mar 04
Sharon,
I have an ^06 glaze that acts similar to what you're describing. My =
glaze has soda ash as well as the lithium, but uses copper carbonate in =
place of the cobalt to get a turquoise blue in an oxidation firing. I =
assumed that the crystals that formed were from the soda ash but I guess =
it could be the lithium. Anyway, the glaze never worked for what I was =
looking for at ^06 oxidation, but on a whim and because it had the =
copper carbonate I decided to try it as a Raku glaze.=20
As they say the rest is history, I broke the large crystals into small =
chunks as best I could and then poured the glaze over my pot, crystals =
and all. To my surprise the crystals stuck to the pot as the glaze =
dried. Even more surprisingly they seem to remain in-place even while =
being fired. The end result was really different, the background varied =
from a flat mustard, to red, to an iridescent green. Where the crystals =
were before the firing was either a copper of light blue spot that =
greatly contrasted with the background.
If you Raku, add a little copper carbonate and give it a try.
Ron Hollister
Fort Worth, Texas
----- Original Message -----=20
From: sharon miranda=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:27 AM
Subject: lithium crystals in the glaze
Hi all:
I have an 04 glaze for earthenware, been using it for a while now. =
Over
a period of time the glaze in the bucket gets these hard, octagonal
crystals in it, that grow and grow- up to maybe 5 inches across. Quite
pretty crystals, in fact! Except that in order to use the glaze, of
course I have to sieve it and throw away the very hard crystals. I've
determined that it's the lithium that's turning into crystals.
Unbelievably the glaze still works without the lithium, but, of =
course,
not the same way as before (more glossy). I made a recent batch - in
Feb- and already there are little crystals in it.
Can anyone tell me if there's anything I can do to avoid the crystals
forming- it's virtually impossible to calculate, of course, what =
amount
of lithium is lost- am wondering just what is causing this to
happen....Has this happened to anyone out there before?
Here is the glaze recipe:
Gerstley Borate 31.54
Neph. Sye 8.7
EPK 4.15
flint 34.86
whiting 16.6.
lithium 8.7
cobalt 2%
Many thanks,
Sharon Miranda
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to =
clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from =
http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
Kasia Bock-Leja on thu 18 mar 04
Oh My Gosh Sharon!
I have the same situation in 2 of my high lithium glazes, and I also
figured that it was the lithium. I talked with John Hesselberth about
it and he had never heard of it but suggested that it was brought on by
cold temperatures. I had my glazes in buckets on the floor for months
and never saw any crystals until Wisconsin winter set in. My glazes are
in a heated studio, but they are on the floor, which is just cement
slab, so fairly cold. I'm experimenting with keeping the glaze in the
house to see if it makes a difference. Straining the glaze is such a
pain! I also tried firing some pieces with some of the little crystal
bits in the glaze. Not a pleasant result. Kind of leaves a pock mark.
If you really want some fun, put a crystal on a napkin in the microwave
and watch what happens!
Kasia
Zoe Johnson on thu 18 mar 04
Yup, it's true. Happens all the time at work and, btw, leaving those
crystals undissolved it a real bad idea.
zoej
--On Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:54 PM -0500 Gene Arnold
wrote:
> Sharon
>
> I have not given this a try so proceed with caution if you do try. I was
> told to sieve out the crystals and put them in a small amount of water and
> microwave. So I was told the crystals will dissolve and you can pour them
> back into the glaze. I was told that the glaze getting cold was what
> turned the lithium into crystals.
>
> As I said I have not tried this, maybe someone out there has and can
> confirm this or say it ain't so.
>
>
> Gene & Latonna
> mudduck@mudduckpottery.com
> www.mudduckpottery.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> _____ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Zoe Paddy Johnson
Analyst Programmer 3
sharon miranda on thu 18 mar 04
Hi all:
I have an 04 glaze for earthenware, been using it for a while now. Over
a period of time the glaze in the bucket gets these hard, octagonal
crystals in it, that grow and grow- up to maybe 5 inches across. Quite
pretty crystals, in fact! Except that in order to use the glaze, of
course I have to sieve it and throw away the very hard crystals. I've
determined that it's the lithium that's turning into crystals.
Unbelievably the glaze still works without the lithium, but, of course,
not the same way as before (more glossy). I made a recent batch - in
Feb- and already there are little crystals in it.
Can anyone tell me if there's anything I can do to avoid the crystals
forming- it's virtually impossible to calculate, of course, what amount
of lithium is lost- am wondering just what is causing this to
happen....Has this happened to anyone out there before?
Here is the glaze recipe:
Gerstley Borate 31.54
Neph. Sye 8.7
EPK 4.15
flint 34.86
whiting 16.6.
lithium 8.7
cobalt 2%
Many thanks,
Sharon Miranda
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 19 mar 04
Dear Sharon Miranda,
Speaking of one of your glazes
<< Here is the glaze recipe:
Gerstley Borate 31.54
Neph. Sye 8.7
EPK 4.15
flint 34.86
whiting 16.6.
lithium 8.7
cobalt 2% >>
You say << I've determined that it's the lithium that's turning into
crystals.>>
Before venturing any opinion which might answer you question I would
like to know how you how you arrived at this conclusion.
Perhaps you could enlighten people a little further.
Best Regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Ababi Sharon on fri 19 mar 04
You know Sharon...
Ron Roy is away and we can make a mess, but this glaze I just passed
through Matrix is terrible!
I hope you will not feed anyone but your enemies from the wares you
cover with this glaze!
I have two suggestions to you.
1) Make each time the amount you need. (By the way the Gerstley borate
might contribute to the crystals.
2) Upload somewhere the picture and send me the link.
You did not write if it is cobalt carb or oxide.
Your glaze must be very runny!
... And very beautiful!
How comes that you use these numbers and it finishes with more that
100%
Keep glazing!
Ababi Sharon
Glaze wizard
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://ababi.active.co.il
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
A fast link Ceramics forum in Hebrew:
http://www.botzpottery.co.il/kishurim.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of sharon
miranda
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:27 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: lithium crystals in the glaze
Hi all:
I have an 04 glaze for earthenware, been using it for a while now. Over
a period of time the glaze in the bucket gets these hard, octagonal
crystals in it, that grow and grow- up to maybe 5 inches across. Quite
pretty crystals, in fact! Except that in order to use the glaze, of
course I have to sieve it and throw away the very hard crystals. I've
determined that it's the lithium that's turning into crystals.
Unbelievably the glaze still works without the lithium, but, of course,
not the same way as before (more glossy). I made a recent batch - in
Feb- and already there are little crystals in it.
Can anyone tell me if there's anything I can do to avoid the crystals
forming- it's virtually impossible to calculate, of course, what amount
of lithium is lost- am wondering just what is causing this to
happen....Has this happened to anyone out there before?
Here is the glaze recipe:
Gerstley Borate 31.54
Neph. Sye 8.7
EPK 4.15
flint 34.86
whiting 16.6.
lithium 8.7
cobalt 2%
Many thanks,
Sharon Miranda
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ababi on fri 19 mar 04
They might in hot water.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Krueger"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: lithium crystals in the glaze
> Sharon,
>
> Just curious. Will these crystals dissolve in plain water?
.
Ababi on fri 19 mar 04
My on line teacher Tony Hansen worn against the using of " text books". So
are Ron and john in their book. Using recipes without understanding them or
worse than that creating recipes and passing them from hand to hand or from
books to wares is un appropriate.
The reason I asked to see the picture is my knowledge that says: I might
make this low fire glaze looks the same without so much lithium with more
clay- to improve it's workability.
I do not have a doubt that it will not as safe as a ^6 glaze yet you might
try- to make a line blend- either with a software - I do it with Matrix 2000
or in Rubin Hopper's ( or Hooper) way without a software.
I would make on one side your 2 cobalt and on the other side 1 copper
oxide.
I try to rebuild your recipe now:
I am not sure it will be as nice but for sure you will loose the crystals.
BLUE GLAZE REVISED BY ABABI
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Gerstley Borate 43.00
frit 3110 12.00
EPK Kaolin 6.00
Flint 26.00
Calcium Carbonate 1.00
spodumen 12.00
Cobalt Carbonate 2.00
Black Copper Oxide 0.50
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Seger Weight%
KNO 0.184 4.72%
CaO 0.602 13.34%
MgO 0.124 1.97%
Li2O 0.090 1.06%
Al2O3 0.192 7.72%
B2O3 0.461 12.69%
SiO2 2.462 58.49%
K2O 0.016 0.58%
Na2O 0.169 4.14%
Al:Is 12.84
Expa. 7.00
ST 326.66
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Hope I helped
Ababi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kasia Bock-Leja"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: lithium crystals in the glaze
> Oh My Gosh Sharon!
>
> I have the same situation in 2 of my high lithium glazes, and I also
> figured that it was the lithium. I talked with John Hesselberth about
> it and he had never heard of it but suggested that it was brought on by
> cold temperatures. I had my glazes in buckets on the floor for months
> and never saw any crystals until Wisconsin winter set in. My glazes are
> in a heated studio, but they are on the floor, which is just cement
> slab, so fairly cold. I'm experimenting with keeping the glaze in the
> house to see if it makes a difference. Straining the glaze is such a
> pain! I also tried firing some pieces with some of the little crystal
> bits in the glaze. Not a pleasant result. Kind of leaves a pock mark.
> If you really want some fun, put a crystal on a napkin in the microwave
> and watch what happens!
>
> Kasia
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Laurie Kneppel on fri 19 mar 04
Okay, I recently opened up a bucket of glaze that I had mixed a couple
months ago and as I was stirring it up I heard and felt what i thought
was sand hitting the mixer blades. To my surprise it was little
multi-sided crystals. The glaze does not contain lithium, though. it
was stored in the garage all winter and it did get in to the 30's at
night a couple times (but the garage thermometer usually managed to
stay in the low 40's even then, so I don't know if it was cold that
caused the crystals to form or not. I don't have the recipe handy here
with me now, but it's Tom Coleman's Lipstick Purple, if anyone is
familiar with it. This batch was some of the pre-mixed powder version
of the glaze from Aardvark. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with
the glaze, but I thought the crystals were an interesting thing.
The glaze, when fired, still produced the lovely Lipstick Purple color
- a nice mottled lavender/purple/blue gloss, and just for fun I placed
a couple of the crystals inside the test bowl and they made beautiful
blue and white splotches. So I don't know what they are, but they are
nice-looking!
Laurie
Sacramento, CA
piedpotterhamelin@COMCAST.NET on fri 19 mar 04
The lithium crystals formed because your studio is too cool. After screening them out, mix with enough boiling water to dissolve and add back to your glaze. Substitute spodumene or a lithium frit next time. And keep some dry glaze to mix in if the lith solution thins your glaze too much.
Hey Snail, I remembered.
Rick
--
"Many a wiser men than I hath
gone to pot." 1649
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 20 mar 04
Dear Rick,
I've been following this thread waiting for some real information.
Can someone give us some evidence which confirms that these crystal
are a Lithium compound?
So far, all I seem to read is conjecture or guesswork. I am not
convinced that Lithium compounds are the culprit.
But I agree with you. Where it is necessary to introduce the element
Lithium into a glaze, Lithium Carbonate should be the last one on the
list. Petellite and Spodumene are always to be preferred.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 20 mar 04
Dear Ron Hollister,
There are good reasons, in your example, why it is unlikely that the
crystals were derived from Lithium Carbonate and strong reasons why
they were most likely Sodium Carbonate Decahydrate.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
David Hewitt on sat 20 mar 04
As I understand it both Gerstley Borate and Lithium Carbonate are both
slightly soluble. I would think it likely, therefore, that both
contribute to your problem of forming crystals.
The amount of lithium, 8.7% is high for any glaze. Also the GB content
is quite high at 31.54%. As others have commented, I would have thought
that this would be a rather unsatisfactory glaze at the its best.
I do use Lithium carbonate regularly in one glaze, but only 1.2%, and
this does not give any problems with forming crystals, however long I
have left it to stand.
I wonder also, if the source of the lithium can make any difference.
Perhaps Tom Buck, if he is reading this would know if this could make a
difference. I don't actually know where mine comes from, but being in
Europe it might be a different source to those of you in America.
David
In message , Earl Krueger writes
>On Thursday, Mar 18, 2004, at 07:27 US/Pacific, sharon miranda wrote:
>
>> Over
>> a period of time the glaze in the bucket gets these hard, octagonal
>> crystals in it, that grow and grow- up to maybe 5 inches across. Quite
>> pretty crystals, in fact! Except that in order to use the glaze, of
>> course I have to sieve it and throw away the very hard crystals.
>
>Sharon,
>
>Just curious. Will these crystals dissolve in plain water?
>
>If so could you dissolve them in a little water and then add that back
>to the glaze. That way you wouldn't lose anything. Except your time,
>of course.
>
>Another interesting experiment would be to see if they dissolve in a
>little vinegar. That might help in determining what they are.
>
>Earl K...
>Bothell, WA, USA
--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery
South Wales UK
Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Logan Oplinger on sun 21 mar 04
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:27:10 -0500, sharon miranda
wrote:
>I have an 04 glaze for earthenware, been using it for a while now. Over
>a period of time the glaze in the bucket gets these hard, octagonal
>crystals in it, that grow and grow- up to maybe 5 inches across. Quite
>pretty crystals, in fact! Except that in order to use the glaze, of
>course I have to sieve it and throw away the very hard crystals. I've
>determined that it's the lithium that's turning into crystals.
>Unbelievably the glaze still works without the lithium, but, of course,
>not the same way as before (more glossy). I made a recent batch - in
>Feb- and already there are little crystals in it.
>
>Can anyone tell me if there's anything I can do to avoid the crystals
>forming- it's virtually impossible to calculate, of course, what amount
>of lithium is lost- am wondering just what is causing this to
>happen....Has this happened to anyone out there before?
>
>Here is the glaze recipe:
>
>Gerstley Borate 31.54
>Neph. Sye 8.7
>EPK 4.15
>flint 34.86
>whiting 16.6.
>lithium 8.7
>
>cobalt 2%
>
>
>Many thanks,
>Sharon Miranda
Hello Clayarters,
I think this topic has been discussed in clayart before. After looking at
the glaze recipe, I suspected there may be a reaction between the slightly
soluble calcium borate minerals in GB, and Li2CO3. The the reaction would
proceed to produce calcium carbonate, which is insoluble, and lithium
borate, which is moderately soluble. A Google search found a link to an
article at the Digitalfire website about GB and substitutes. Of particular
interest is the paragraph about reactions within glazes containing the GB
substitute "Boraq" and high lithium carbonate content. Go to:
http://digitalfire.com/gerstleyborate/boraq.shtml
Ivor is probably right that the only solution - or should that be NON-
solution ;^) - is to substitute non-soluble lithium containing minerals
such as spodumene or lepidolite. A lithium bearing frit such as Fusion's F-
493, Pemco's P-609, or General Color's GF-140 may also work.
Logan Oplinger
Another Tropical Island
Ron Hollister on sun 21 mar 04
Ivor,
I think the sodium is a possibility because it also happened with a =
shino glaze that I've used that contained a relatively high percentage =
of soda ash (20%). In this case, however, the crystals did not form in =
the glaze bucket but would form on the surface of my piece a day or two =
after it was glazed. In this case the crystals had more of a needle like =
structure.
Ron Hollister
PS - following is a link to a piece on my web site where the Raku glaze =
with crystals was used. =
http://www.ronhollisterpottery.com/WP-Raku/P1840.JPGterpottery.com/WP-Raku/P1840.JPG>
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ivor and Olive Lewis=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: lithium crystals in the glaze
Dear Ron Hollister,
There are good reasons, in your example, why it is unlikely that the
crystals were derived from Lithium Carbonate and strong reasons why
they were most likely Sodium Carbonate Decahydrate.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to =
clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from =
http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 22 mar 04
Dear Ron,
I think Sodium Carbonate is a certainty and Lithium Carbonate
unlikely, based on the evidence so far presented.
There is a simple test people might do, especially those who are
plagued by this problem.
Take four identical glass infant food jars. Put labels on them.
On two labels write Li2CO3 and on the other two write Na2CO3. Put
these on the jars. Put water in one of each of the two pairs.
Both compounds should be anhydrous. Slowly add first one of the
compounds into a jar labelled for it and mix until no more will
dissolve.
Do the same for the other compound. When no more of each will
dissolve, decant the supernatant liquid into the jar labelled for it.
Leave the two samples so that water can evaporate but shield from
airborne dust.
Keep notes of the changes which take place. Did water dissolve more of
one and less of the other? Should you get crystals examine them. If
possible measure their sizes and try to describe their forms.
I have a feeling that it is this sort of original inquiry which
informs us that there is a need for a segment of elemenaty science in
all ceramic courses, especially those which lead to a Professional
Qualification.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Ron Roy on mon 22 mar 04
Hi Sharon,
There are three sources of solubles in your glaze - the GB, Neph Sy and
Lithium Carb. They are responsible for the crystals - as others have said -
it's the cold that are allowing them to grow.
Keep the glaze warmer and it might not happen - put the glaze glaze bucket
in a warm place a few days before you want to use it may work.
The advice about collecting the crystals and remelting in hot water is
correct - add em back in and the glaze will act the same.
Just a warning - with some clay bodies and more than 2% lithium Carb you
may get shivering - and in some cases both shivering and crazing so watch
for it - with a magnifying glass.
RR
>Can anyone tell me if there's anything I can do to avoid the crystals
>forming- it's virtually impossible to calculate, of course, what amount
>of lithium is lost- am wondering just what is causing this to
>happen....Has this happened to anyone out there before?
>
>Here is the glaze recipe:
>
>Gerstley Borate 31.54
>Neph. Sye 8.7
>EPK 4.15
>flint 34.86
>whiting 16.6.
>lithium 8.7
>
>cobalt 2%
>Sharon Miranda
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 23 mar 04
Dear Logan,
Such conjectures are "Insoluble" (=E2=80=A1-^)
<NON-
solution ->>
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Logan Oplinger on wed 24 mar 04
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:20:24 +1030, Ivor and Olive Lewis
wrote:
>Dear Ron,
>I think Sodium Carbonate is a certainty and Lithium Carbonate
>unlikely, based on the evidence so far presented.
>There is a simple test people might do, especially those who are
>plagued by this problem.
>Take four identical glass infant food jars. Put labels on them.
>On two labels write Li2CO3 and on the other two write Na2CO3. Put
>these on the jars. Put water in one of each of the two pairs.
>Both compounds should be anhydrous. Slowly add first one of the
>compounds into a jar labelled for it and mix until no more will
>dissolve.
>Do the same for the other compound. When no more of each will
>dissolve, decant the supernatant liquid into the jar labelled for it.
>Leave the two samples so that water can evaporate but shield from
>airborne dust.
>Keep notes of the changes which take place. Did water dissolve more of
>one and less of the other? Should you get crystals examine them. If
>possible measure their sizes and try to describe their forms.
>I have a feeling that it is this sort of original inquiry which
>informs us that there is a need for a segment of elemenaty science in
>all ceramic courses, especially those which lead to a Professional
>Qualification.
>Best regards,
>Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Dear Ivor and All,
I would propose also doing a somewhat different experiment with the given
that Gerstley Borate and Lithium Carbonate are both slightly soluble in
water. If I am correct, there will be a visual confirmation of a reaction
between the two.
Materials Needed:
1.) A shallow, long, single compartment plastic tray of black plastic,
about 1"h x 2"w x 10"l (similar to the type used for packaging cookies or
crackers). If you have only a clear plastic tray, then a piece of black
paper or cloth will also be needed to lay underneath to provide visual
contrast.
2.) Two clean paper coffee filters, or two clean paper towels.
3.) A Shoe box.
4.) Clear plastic food wrap to cover the shoe box.
5.) Masking or Scotch(C) (sticky) tape.
6.) Distilled or deionized water to nearly fill the plastic tray.
7.) About 5 grams each of Gerstley Borate (GB) and Lithium Carbonate
(Li2CO3).
In a quiet, undisturbed location free of drafts and variations in air
temp., place the tray in the shoe box. Nearly fill the tray with the water.
Fold the filters or paper towels into two open paper packets. Place the GB
into one packet, close and label. Place the Li2CO3 into the other packet,
close and label. Both packets should be folded closed so they remain
closed when put into the water.
Place each packet into the water at opposite ends in the tray. Cover the
shoe box with the plastic wrap & secure with tape.
Watch the contents of the tray over a period of several days. Do not
disturb the shoe box or contents in any way. The shoe box & plastic cover
are to help provide protection from dust, drafts and temp. variations.
The packets are porous and will allow the GB and Li2CO3 to go into
solution. I suspect that as the GB and Li2CO3 go into solution, and the
ions of calcium + borate and lithium + cabonate migrate toward each other
through the water, somwhere in the middle of the tray, a reaction will
occur producing a white precipitate of insoluble calcium carbonate. The
other part of the reaction, between the Lithium & Borate ions, will remain
in solution until the water finally evaporates and crystals of Lithium
Borate form (or if cool enough, crystals form in the water).
All of this as of now is only conjecture.
Logan Oplinger
Another Pacific Island
Ron Roy on wed 24 mar 04
There have been other complaints about this here and Lithium Carb. seems to
be the common factor - especially if the Lithium Carb. is fine ground.
It would not be difficult to test which of the three materials (Neph Sy,
Lithium Carb. and GB) do present solubility problems in this glaze and are
likely to crystallize out.
Test #1 - Lithium Carb. and GB
Test #2 - Neph Sy and GB
Test #3 - Lithium Carb. and Neph Sy
Test 4 - all three.
A teaspoon of each in a small amount of water (enough to cover the
material) heated to promote solubility for half an our. Set in refrigerator
or freezer till crystals appear.
The other method would be to have the crystals analysed.
My money is on the Lithium/GB mixture.
RR
>I think Sodium Carbonate is a certainty and Lithium Carbonate
>unlikely, based on the evidence so far presented.
>There is a simple test people might do, especially those who are
>plagued by this problem.
>Take four identical glass infant food jars. Put labels on them.
>On two labels write Li2CO3 and on the other two write Na2CO3. Put
>these on the jars. Put water in one of each of the two pairs.
>Both compounds should be anhydrous. Slowly add first one of the
>compounds into a jar labelled for it and mix until no more will
>dissolve.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 25 mar 04
Dear Logan,
A classical technique ( based on HCl and NH3) and one we should all
try out if we have some original Gerstley Borate handy.
Lithium Carbonate is sparingly soluble in water. Calcium Carbonate is
insoluble except when Carbon dioxide is in solution.
Use Boiled Distilled water.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
@pclink.com.
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