Lowell Barron on thu 18 mar 04
Hi all,
Further to the hand cream discussion, Logan and others have talked about
putting bare hands in the glaze.
I have just come back to potting after not doing much for several years and
although I used to put my hands into the glaze in the past, I am now
concerned about toxicity as I have had some serious health problems and want
to avoid such in the future.
What do y'all think about bare skin in the glaze? Do you still put your
finger in to check the consistency of the glaze? Do you touch up wth your
finger? Are there glazes with ingredients that are more toxic on the skin
than others?
I hope you can advise me on this. I have learned so much on Clayart and
thank you all.
Lowell Ann
Simona Drentea on fri 19 mar 04
I use whisks that I buy at Goodwill for about .29 each.
SD
claybair on fri 19 mar 04
What ever happened to ye ole paint mixers
from the paint store. Used to be free I think
they still are when you buy paint. Occasionally
I leave them in the buckets. If they get moldy
a little bleach water takes care of it.
Gayle Bair - sent off my last show application...
whew! It's like pulling teeth.... what a chore.
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nana Underhill
Catherine Yassin wrote:
> In a message dated 3/19/2004 10:06:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> krista55peterson@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
> > When I worked at the arts center we got those deep fryer screen paddles,
>
> Krista, I even go a step further and just go to Goodwill and buy old
plastic
> spatulas (the slotted ones) for about 50 cents or a dollar each. I can
leave
We use toilet brushes, one per bucket, so you never have to wash them.
I mixed a bucket of glaze with my bare hands (and arms) once. I won't do
that again. I got a couple of places that were rashy, my hands started to
sting towards the end, and I picked up a headache somewhere in there.
Few people, I hope, are addle-brained enough to soak in 10L glaze. :) I
still hear the voices...
Nana Underhill
logan johnson on fri 19 mar 04
Hi Anne (?),
(hope I got that right)
As far as "Safe" goes I was taught if you are using a "food safe" glaze it's o.k. to put your hands into a glaze Briefly.I hope this is correct since this is what I've been going by. I don't use any of the common nasties: manganese, chrome,barium, or lithium. There are many others I'm leaving out for the sake of a short post but, they can be found on line.(MSDS Sheets) I belive they're called or , from some of the smartest people in the world. (The OTHER people on clayart.) I Do have one glaze with mang. in it . That glaze is ALWAYS used while wearing gloves . I also change my water bucket used for rinsing the sponge,brush or wisk after using that glaze. that's the only glaze I have that's NOT food safe & used only on work that never touches food. Hope this helps in some way.
Logan
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Krista Peterson on fri 19 mar 04
>What do y'all think about bare skin in the glaze? Do you still put your
>finger in to check the consistency of the glaze? Do you touch up wth your
>finger?
Hello Lowell Ann,
I bet most everyone on this list would say do NOT stir glazes with your bare hands, even if it is
not a particularly toxic glaze. It is an unnecessary risk. Besides, there are better things to stir
a bucket of glaze. When I worked at the arts center we got those deep fryer screen paddles, you
know, what they use to lift out deep fried food. Look in any restauraunt catolog, they are extemely
cheap, like $2.50 a piece and they will last a long time if you don't leave them in the bucket to rust.
They look like fly swatters. When I mix glazes I use rubber gloves because I will be doing this for the
rest of my life, most likely, and so I take more precautions. Using your finger to check the glaze I think
is fine as long as you don't have any cuts. But the ingredients you want to be extra careful with are
barium carbonate(big time, most people on this list would tell you to not even use this one), soda ash will irritateyour skin so wear gloves, Manganese dioxide, and maybe lithium carb and strontium carb although I'm not sure how toxic those last 2 are. There are probably more but I can't think of them right now, I'm sure my peers will fill in the blanks.
Take care!
Krista Peterson
Karen Sullivan on fri 19 mar 04
In response to hands in glazes, I have a couple of responses...
I think the skin is a pretty good barrier to most toxic materials.
The lungs are a more direct pathway to toxins.
So, unless you have a cut on your hands, I wouldn't worry
too much about using your hands in glaze.
You can read the ingredients of glazes and make some
informed choices about the materials you come in contact with.
Perhaps barium carbonate is not something to expose yourself to at lot.
There is a list of things...chrome oxide, manganese dioxide...
do some research.
Another option, is to get some Kerodex, which is a skin barrier
creme. You apply it like hand lotion, it protects
your skin and then washes off with soap. Perhaps if the material is
suspect, try that if it makes you more comfortable.
I am much more concerned with the fumes and dust we breathe. It's a much
more direct pathway to the brain and blood stream.
Find the article about David Shaner, in Studio Potter magazine about a year
ago. Manganese Dioxide is scary stuff. His experience is a very sad story
about the ravages ceramics materials inflict on our physical being....and
how unfamiliar the medical community is with dealing with problems of our
vulnerabilities to the chemicals we use.
Even clay dust...silica is in ball clay, fireclay...actually most materials
we use have some component of silica. So...do some research...take care with
custodial duties in the studio...and make choices about the risk you inflict
on yourself.
When I was is school, I was testing a glaze that used White Lead....it was a
crusty, orange to green beautiful surface. After firing the kiln,
there was a trail of chartreuse/yellow foamy glaze, indicating the path of
the flame exiting the kiln. My response was to react quickly to the
potential danger of breathing the fumes from the kiln.
Another student wanted to do tests with lead in his glaze...so he managed
to mix glazes in the glaze room with no regard to what surface the materials
came in contact with...So he sort of hosed the room with lead...therefore
leaving a blanket of toxic material everywhere. He made a huge mess with the
stuff. The sad part is you can't see the residue...and are
only aware of the danger for awhile...the environment
becomes familiar again...and we forget the havoc left.
I decided that I was uncomfortable working with a material that was that
toxic. And although the glaze was beautiful, I did not want to shorten
my life with lead exposure...So I found materials that were safer.
So...as with anything...use some wisdom and care.
karen
Susan Giddings on fri 19 mar 04
Up until now, my work has all been done in a co-op studio and I teach so I
try to set a good example for the students. I may be a little off the deep
end when it comes to this, but I figure I'd rather err on that side than
not. My guidelines are really pretty simple. I pretty much always wear
gloves. But then again I am diabetic and for years had to contend with
fingertip pricks. (I now use the Freestyle glucose monitor where I can do
the prick in the forearm. But the habit is ingrained.)
If it has anything to do with Raku - ALWAYS wear gloves.
Any coloring oxides use gloves. Especially Copper.
Only white glazes or RIO (and not even all of these) will I ever dip my
exposed hand or fingertips in.
Always rinse hands after glazing (or any glaze spill) with COLD COLD water.
(Keep the pores closed)
Always wipe up spills ASAP - especiallky when they are still wet.
And I do ALWAYS wear a respirator when I am even in the glaze area for an
extended period of time whether or not I am actively glazing anything. Our
spray booth is not very confined.
I pay attention to the advice that the face masks are worthless and use a
highly rated respirator and keep the filters changed very frequently. Of
course, I keep the respirator wrapped up as air tight as possible. I always
find it amusing that people will leave face masks and respirators out in the
open in a studio - most commonly face side up so that all the dust can
collect on the surfaces that come in direct contact with the skin. Then when
they go to put it on, all that dust goes straight into their system. Had
your silica hit yet today? (I know, really not something to joke about...)
But then again, I will admit to the fact that I am probably a little extreme
on this topic. I do teach and while I like to use the students as a scape
goat, but the fact is I'd do it anyway, even if I were not teaching. I'd
rather err on the side of being overprotective.
Students, female, and of child bearing age, I pretty much force them into
following my "rules".
S
------------------
Susan Giddings
"There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot, but there are
others who, thanks to their art and intelligence, transform a yellow spot
into the sun." — Pablo Picasso
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annsemple on fri 19 mar 04
Hi Ann
Like most of us, I have used my hands to stir the glazes - or retrieve
things :) But no more.
My reason(S)?
My hands dry out very quickly when glazing and the dryer my hands, the more
likely they are to have small cracks which could allow entry of glaze
materials. And most of my glazes contain cobalt carb (blues) or lithium
(rutile) or copper carb, or Nepheline Syenite (connections between aliminum
and alzheimers) or whatever. The skin is a semi permeable membrane, and like
everything else, it seems it's the stuff you don't want in there that will
turn out to be able to cross the membrane, not the acceptable stuff. So I
used a jiffy mixer that I bought for mixing and a long flat paddle to scrap
the bottom. I don't have any gloves that go up to my arm pit , otherwise,
I'd use gloves.
That said - (talk about inconsistent) I do use my finger to test the glaze.
(followed by immediate soap/water wash)
And I can't answer the last one - which chemicals are more toxic on the
skin. I'd go for Manganese dioxide, just because of its' potential
connection with ALS, and other than that, maybe IVOR can tell us?
Best,
Ann
annsemple@shaw.ca
oooO
( )Clayfoot Crockery
\ ( Victoria, B.C. Canada
\ _ )
Catherine Yassin on fri 19 mar 04
In a message dated 3/19/2004 10:06:52 AM Central Standard Time,
krista55peterson@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
> When I worked at the arts center we got those deep fryer screen paddles,
> you
> know, what they use to lift out deep fried food. Look in any restauraunt
> catolog, they are extemely cheap, like $2.50 a piece and they will last a long
> time if you don't leave them in the bucket to rust.
>
Krista, I even go a step further and just go to Goodwill and buy old plastic
spatulas (the slotted ones) for about 50 cents or a dollar each. I can leave
them inside the bucket and they don't rust. AND they are squared off so the can
reach into the corners of the buckets as I scrape around.
-Cat Yassin
San Antonio
Nana Underhill on fri 19 mar 04
On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 03:45:58PM -0500 or thereabouts, Catherine Yassin wrote:
> In a message dated 3/19/2004 10:06:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> krista55peterson@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
> > When I worked at the arts center we got those deep fryer screen paddles,
>
> Krista, I even go a step further and just go to Goodwill and buy old plastic
> spatulas (the slotted ones) for about 50 cents or a dollar each. I can leave
We use toilet brushes, one per bucket, so you never have to wash them.
I mixed a bucket of glaze with my bare hands (and arms) once. I won't do
that again. I got a couple of places that were rashy, my hands started to
sting towards the end, and I picked up a headache somewhere in there.
Few people, I hope, are addle-brained enough to soak in 10L glaze. :) I
still hear the voices...
Nana Underhill
Cindi Anderson on fri 19 mar 04
Great idea. I am going to go to Goodwill and get some. However I thought I
would add that those kitchen stick blenders (about $20) are worth their
weight in gold for mixing glazes. If you have a lot of glaze in a bucket,
like 3 gallons, it is worth it to get out the drill with the Jiffy Mixer.
But often I only have 4-6 inches of glaze in the bottom of a bucket, and the
stick blender is great.
Cindi
----- Original Message -----
go to Goodwill and buy old plastic
> spatulas (the slotted ones) for about 50 cents or a dollar each. I can
leave
> them inside the bucket and they don't rust.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 20 mar 04
Dear Lowell Ann,
Why get your hands soiled when there is no need.
Six inches of half inch wood dowel is a perfectly good substitute for
a naked finger.
You make the same observations, the thickness of the coating and the
way it drips from the tip.
My suggestion would be to roll out some clay to make a similar tool,
bisque and use this as the gauge. The you really see that which you
need to know, the behaviour of th glaze slop on your pots. In addition
and of far more importance is that you will be able with a test of
each end to estimate the time your pots need to be immersed to get an
optimum thickness of glaze.
Always look for a safer, improved alternative.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
karen gringhuis on sun 21 mar 04
I wear gloves simply because glazing does more damage
to my skin than throwing ever does. (I also wear
gloves when doing dishes.) Gloves still permit me to
feel if all of the glaze ingredients are stirred in
and off the bottom of the bucket. (Getting a glaze
well stirred is a particular problem in a communal
workshop. Long wood sticks just don't do the job.)
My gloves are elbow length and last a long time. If
interested, get a catalog from Dunn Safety Products 37
S.Sangamon Chicago 312-666-5800.
=====
Karen Gringhuis
KG Pottery
Box 607 Alfred NY 14802
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