John & Carole Bandurchin on mon 22 mar 04
Hi Clayart
I've just joined the group and although i've got lots of computer use =
experience it's mostly with software that won't let you screw up. I =
hope i don't do that here.
I read a few postings about using a shop vac type machine and extending =
the air intake down near the bottom and filling the canister with water =
to a point above the extended air intake. this was said to get rid of =
bad stuff and only let clean air out of the canister.
It seems to me that this may not work since the air will be sucked up =
through the water in large bubbles and many of the small particles will =
not come into contact with and be trapped by the water.
I was thinking that some type of screen or plate with many small holes =
should be put down into the canister, well below the water level and =
above the air intake, and fastened somehow. I thought this would break =
the air bubbles up into tiny ones and be more effective at trapping =
those nasty tiny particles.
Has anybody done any research in this area - Monona Rossol for =
example???
John in Baltimore ON - not really spring yet here
Donald Goldsobel on mon 22 mar 04
There are HEPAA filters for shop vacs thaat taake out the objectionable
paarticles. I got minee at Home Depot when I got the shop vac. Cost is about
$30. I clean it off from time to time--OUT OF DOORS!
D
----- Original Message -----
From: "John & Carole Bandurchin"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:11 AM
Subject: Vacuum system for clay shop
Hi Clayart
I've just joined the group and although i've got lots of computer use
experience it's mostly with software that won't let you screw up. I hope i
don't do that here.
I read a few postings about using a shop vac type machine and extending the
air intake down near the bottom and filling the canister with water to a
point above the extended air intake. this was said to get rid of bad stuff
and only let clean air out of the canister.
It seems to me that this may not work since the air will be sucked up
through the water in large bubbles and many of the small particles will not
come into contact with and be trapped by the water.
I was thinking that some type of screen or plate with many small holes
should be put down into the canister, well below the water level and above
the air intake, and fastened somehow. I thought this would break the air
bubbles up into tiny ones and be more effective at trapping those nasty tiny
particles.
Has anybody done any research in this area - Monona Rossol for example???
John in Baltimore ON - not really spring yet here
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Richard Aerni on mon 22 mar 04
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:48:17 -0800, Donald Goldsobel
wrote:
>There are HEPAA filters for shop vacs thaat taake out the objectionable
>paarticles. I got minee at Home Depot when I got the shop vac. Cost is
about
>$30. I clean it off from time to time--OUT OF DOORS!
>
My problem with any of the recycling filtration vac systems is that they
exhaust the air back into the studio, after filtering it. No matter how
well they supposedly filter, you eventually get the finest stuff floating
through your studio, and your lungs.
What I have going in my studio is hard to beat...a bit more expensive than
a shop vac with filter, but definitely safer. It's the externally vented
Beam vacuum system (available through Marc Ward's business) for somewhere
around $400 (when I bought it). Even with the hose extended 35 feet from
the vacuum, it still will suck the clay dust out of the crevices in my
studio floor. The dust is sent outdoors, not recycled, so the air stays
free and clear.
Just a suggestion...
richard aerni
rochester, ny...enjoying reading everyone's nceca experiences...
Vince Pitelka on mon 22 mar 04
> There are HEPAA filters for shop vacs thaat taake out the objectionable
> paarticles. I got minee at Home Depot when I got the shop vac. Cost is
> about $30. I clean it off from time to time--OUT OF DOORS!
I gotta second what Richard Aerni said. There is no secondary filter
available (HEPA or otherwise) for less than a few thousand bucks that is
worth much when it comes to filtering out the very finest silica particles,
and those are the ones that cause silicosis. Those particles cannot be
expelled by the cilia on the surfaces of your lungs, and so the body builds
scar tissue around them. There is simply no studio vacuum system that is
worth much except for the Beam or other system that exhausts OUTSIDE the
studio. Those of you who think you have HEPA filters removing all the
finest silica particles are not facing the truth, and I really fear for you.
Please move your shop vacs back to the garage workshop and get a BEAM system
or something similar.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Craig Edwards on tue 23 mar 04
Hello All: If I can third what Richard and Vince said, I will. Silicosis
is real but 100% preventable. This seems like THE WEEKLY WARNING about
silicosis. Thanks to all that keep passing out the word, after about the
uppteenth time it's easy to just let it slide.
Alot of prevention is aquiring good studio habits ie. picking up the
trim scraps before they get stepped on, and tracked around, using water
and sponge to clean table and equipment etc.
If you can't afford the classy vac system. A mop and water work.
There are some tricky situations that are hard to control. One that I
hear time and time again is an art teacher trying to convince the
janitor to wet mop and never to sweep. Run for cover when you see that
conversation about to happen!
There is the co-op studio situation . Who's job is it clean the floor?
It's worth the effort to work out these situations.
Cheers,
Craig Edwards
New London MN
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>>There are HEPAA filters for shop vacs thaat taake out the objectionable
>>paarticles. I got minee at Home Depot when I got the shop vac. Cost is
>>about $30. I clean it off from time to time--OUT OF DOORS!
>>
>>
>
>I gotta second what Richard Aerni said. There is no secondary filter
>available (HEPA or otherwise) for less than a few thousand bucks that is
>worth much when it comes to filtering out the very finest silica particles,
>and those are the ones that cause silicosis. Those particles cannot be
>expelled by the cilia on the surfaces of your lungs, and so the body builds
>scar tissue around them.
>
>
Ron Roy on tue 23 mar 04
I agree with Richard completely on this.
This is the kind of system I have had in my studios for the last 10 years -
lots of power - if you want to move dust out of your studio this is the
best system you can get.
You might say it's fool proof - but still - don't have the collector near
where the dust can get back into the studio and make sure you have a window
or door open to supply replacement air when the system is running -
especially when you have any burning going on in the studio - like kilns
and heaters. If there is not enough replacement air you can get a buildup
of CO in the studio.
This kind of system can be hooked up to evacuate the dust when weighing and
mixing glazes.
RR
>My problem with any of the recycling filtration vac systems is that they
>exhaust the air back into the studio, after filtering it. No matter how
>well they supposedly filter, you eventually get the finest stuff floating
>through your studio, and your lungs.
>What I have going in my studio is hard to beat...a bit more expensive than
>a shop vac with filter, but definitely safer. It's the externally vented
>Beam vacuum system (available through Marc Ward's business) for somewhere
>around $400 (when I bought it). Even with the hose extended 35 feet from
>the vacuum, it still will suck the clay dust out of the crevices in my
>studio floor. The dust is sent outdoors, not recycled, so the air stays
>free and clear.
>Just a suggestion...
>richard aerni
>rochester, ny...enjoying reading everyone's nceca experiences...
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
william schran on tue 23 mar 04
Craig wrote:>There are some tricky situations that are hard to
control. One that I
hear time and time again is an art teacher trying to convince the
janitor to wet mop and never to sweep. Run for cover when you see that
conversation about to happen!<
Depends on how you approach the situation. At my school I demanded
the night cleaning contractor only wet mop - and do it EVERY NIGHT -
no excuses.
Sat down with the owner of the cleaning company, our school safety
officer and a member of our facilities staff. I conducted the
meeting as an information session, with hand outs regarding the
dangers of clay dust. When I explained to the owner that he could be
held liable for injury to his workers and telling him that I had also
talked to the cleaning crew. The floor gets wet mopped every night.
Previous cleaning contractor was fired because I complained, every
day, all the way up to the president of the college. This was a big
contract - 5 campuses! It's amazing how the word "liability" works.
Do not take no for an answer!
Bill
Lee Love on tue 23 mar 04
The safest route is one of the cheapest. I saw it first at a
manufacturing shop next the Continental Clay (their vacs were housed in
a sort of "dog house": Put the whole vacuum, not just the venting
hose, outside and then have a long hose on the vacuum end inside. This
works on the same principle as the Bailey style kiln vent: if any
part of the system that is pushing is inside the work environment, you
always stand the chance of a hole or leak pumping the fumes or particles
inside. If you only have vacuum hose or conduit inside, there is no
chance of leakage.
What I used for the inside hose is coiled hose that is usually
used for sink drains here. Strong enough to hold up to the vacuum
pressure. The inexpensive shop vac, (no water inside. I've tried
this in the past in St. Paul and it makes a real mess) is outside and
only the hose goes inside the workshop.
--Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.us "It seems to me what you
lose in mystery you gain in awe" -- Francis Crick
Craig Edwards on tue 23 mar 04
Hello Bill: Good for you! I hope that others can learn from you and do
the same! I like your resolve and courage of conviction. Thanks for the
solution.
Craig Edwards
New London MN
PS: I'm forwarding this to a few bruised teachers.
william schran wrote:
> Craig wrote:>There are some tricky situations that are hard to
> control. One that I
> hear time and time again is an art teacher trying to convince the
> janitor to wet mop and never to sweep. Run for cover when you see that
> conversation about to happen!<
>
> Depends on how you approach the situation. At my school I demanded
> the night cleaning contractor only wet mop - and do it EVERY NIGHT -
> no excuses.
> Sat down with the owner of the cleaning company, our school safety
> officer and a member of our facilities staff. I conducted the
> meeting as an information session, with hand outs regarding the
> dangers of clay dust. When I explained to the owner that he could be
> held liable for injury to his workers and telling him that I had also
> talked to the cleaning crew. The floor gets wet mopped every night.
>
> Previous cleaning contractor was fired because I complained, every
> day, all the way up to the president of the college. This was a big
> contract - 5 campuses! It's amazing how the word "liability" works.
>
> Do not take no for an answer!
> Bill
>
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