Simona Drentea on sat 3 apr 04
I need help, I'm a newbie & I don't really understand wholesale or even the
concept. I understand setting a price for my pieces but not how or why I would
set a different price for wholesale. I stopped in at one of my fave gift
shops in a touristy part of town. The owner sells all original work, primarily
ceramics. I told her that I am new but making raku pieces that might fit in
well with her shop. She invited me to make an appt so she can see my work. I
did ask how she works with artists & she buys the pieces outright. I know from
reading this list that that's a good thing :-) Here's the part where I need
help. I am clueless! She made reference to wholesale, so I guess she's not
expecting to pay what I would ask retail.
Can anyone help me with the protocol & guidelines on this? Who sets
wholesale prices? Me or her? Should I expect her to make me an offer or vice versa?
Is there some sort of guideline on what a wholesale price should be (ie; a
percentage of retail)? Does the artist typically have a say in what retail
price the shop will sell it for? Should I even ask what price she would will it
for? Do shops usually require exclusivity or some type of non-compete? As you
can see, I know nothing & any help would be dearly appreciated! I'm don't
want to commit any faux pas' but I also don't want to let on how totally
clueless I am :-)
Also, just in general, what are the advantages of selling pieces wholesale?
The only thing I can come up with is that she has many more customers than I
would just selling on the 'net, but are there some other advantages that
haven't occurred to me?
Thanks!
Simona in CO where it's finally RAINING! Hopefully on the wildfire too!
Jennifer Boyer on sat 3 apr 04
I can't answer all your questions but there's 1 philosophy I firmly
believe in:
There are 2 parts of the retail price of a pot: 1/2 is for making the
pot and 1/2 is for marketing it. Say a mug is 20.00 retail. If you
sell to a wholesale gallery you get 10.00 because they are going to do
the marketing. If you sell at a show or out of your shop, you get
20.00 because YOU are the marketer and need to be paid for your time
and your advertising and promotion. This is a simplistic formula, since
it doesn't deal with overhead, etc, but it's a good place to start.
A gallery sometimes sells that mug for a different price than the
20.00 we're using as an example. Your wholesale price may be 10.00,
half of your retail, but the gallery may choose to add on extra $ for
their expenses, say gift boxes and bags. So they may add on 1 or 2
dollars. I don't think craftspeople have much say in this...I may be
wrong...if it's a consigmnent gallery there's a set % of retail that
the gallery takes, with no additional markup above your retail, in my
experience anyway.....
Jennifer
On Apr 3, 2004, at 2:56 AM, Simona Drentea wrote:
> I need help, I'm a newbie & I don't really understand wholesale or
> even the
> concept. I understand setting a price for my pieces but not how or
> why I would
> set a different price for wholesale. I stopped in at one of my fave
> gift
> shops in a touristy part of town. The owner sells all original work,
> primarily
> ceramics. I told her that I am new but making raku pieces that might
> fit in
> well with her shop. She invited me to make an appt so she can see my
> work. I
> did ask how she works with artists & she buys the pieces outright. I
> know from
> reading this list that that's a good thing :-) Here's the part where
> I need
> help. I am clueless! She made reference to wholesale, so I guess
> she's not
> expecting to pay what I would ask retail.
>
> Can anyone help me with the protocol & guidelines on this? Who sets
> wholesale prices? Me or her? Should I expect her to make me an offer
> or vice versa?
> Is there some sort of guideline on what a wholesale price should be
> (ie; a
> percentage of retail)? Does the artist typically have a say in what
> retail
> price the shop will sell it for? Should I even ask what price she
> would will it
> for? Do shops usually require exclusivity or some type of
> non-compete? As you
> can see, I know nothing & any help would be dearly appreciated! I'm
> don't
> want to commit any faux pas' but I also don't want to let on how
> totally
> clueless I am :-)
>
> Also, just in general, what are the advantages of selling pieces
> wholesale?
> The only thing I can come up with is that she has many more customers
> than I
> would just selling on the 'net, but are there some other advantages
> that
> haven't occurred to me?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Simona in CO where it's finally RAINING! Hopefully on the wildfire
> too!
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Annie Evans on sat 3 apr 04
Get a book on making money as an artist/craftsperson - quickly!!!!
Kathi LeSueur on sat 3 apr 04
Rakurio@AOL.COM wrote:
>I understand setting a price for my pieces but not how or why I would
>set a different price for wholesale...... Here's the part where I need
>help. I am clueless! She made reference to wholesale, so I guess she's not
>expecting to pay what I would ask retail.>>>>
>
When you sell your work you pay all of the costs associated with selling
it. When someone else sells your work they pay all of the costs of
selling it. Why would any store want to carry your work and sell it for
twice the price that you would be selling it for?
><<<>wholesale prices? Me or her?>>>
>
The artist sets the wholesale price. Industry standard is 50% of the
retail price. The store is going to want to know what YOU sell the item
for. They will then make a judgement as to whether they believe that
THEY can sell your work at that price or slightly higher. Very few shops
just double the price anymore. It doesn't cover their over head.
><<>price the shop will sell it for?>>>
>
Not usually.
> <<<>>
>
All shops will try for exclusivity. But what does that mean? To an
area, to a city, to a state, to the U.S.? How much of your work will
they be buying in order to earn the right to exclusivity. As for
"non-compete", if you are doing a show in the area I think that is fine.
I usually inform customers that they can find my work year round at a
certain shop. Often have their cards or brochures. But, if someone calls
and says, "I saw your work at X gallery can I buy it from you directly"
, you really owe that shop something for the effort they've done to show
your work. Perhaps a portion of the sale. I tell them that the work
isn't available from me and refer them back to the shop. If it's
something the shop doesn't have I suggest they ask them to special order it.
><<<<>>
>
You can spend all of your time creating. You don't have the expense of
shows. You don't spend days running off to shows. You make what is
already sold rather than what might sell. Shows are very expensive and
most artists don't realize they are losing money at them.
>kathi
>
>
Karin Hurt on sat 3 apr 04
I have three books on the subject:
1) CRAFTING as a Business by Wendy Rosen (page 36 a little about wholesale
pricing
2) SELL WHAT YOU MAKE - The Business of Marketing Crafts by Paul Gerhards
3) THE BUSINESS OF ART - new revised and updated edition by Diane Cochrane
Between all of them I don't feel there was that much information about
wholesale pricing.
Karin
Lake Havasu City, Arizona
http://www.laughingbearpottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Annie Evans"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: Help with wholesale - I'm clueless
> Get a book on making money as an artist/craftsperson - quickly!!!!
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Susan Setley on sun 4 apr 04
"The artist sets the wholesale price. Industry standard is 50% of the
retail price. The store is going to want to know what YOU sell the item
for. They will then make a judgement as to whether they believe that
THEY can sell your work at that price or slightly higher. Very few shops
just double the price anymore. It doesn't cover their over head.
"
Where I am a lot of places still do that, but there really is a kind of peculiar price thing that has to go on with more expenive -- but small -- items. Often they move very slowly, and during that time that they do not move, the seller still has to pay rent, utilities, salaries, etc. The marketing concerns for non-essential items are different than those for essential itmes. If your refrigerator goes out, you have to replace it. You may go several places, but at the end of the day you probably will have bought one some places. There's a real need, and therefore a real demand, for refrigerators. This is not true of a teapot, no matter how beautiful it may be.
Also where we are, the two galleries I'm most familiar with are both in a slump. I don't have any items in them but friends of mine do. The managers of both those galleries say other galleries in the area are hurting as well. Even when business is brisk, gallery managers hve to be prepared for leaner times.
Susan
Jason Truesdell on sun 4 apr 04
I'm doing a little bit of ceramics resale as part of my import/export =
business, but I'm dealing with Japanese companies so the percentages may =
be slightly different.
In most cases, a gallery takes approximately 40% of the retail price =
(sometimes more, sometimes less). So, if someone else is doing all of =
the selling work for you, you should discount appropriately. If I buy in =
quantity from other galleries, I can get a 30% or so discount against =
retail instead of 35-45% by buying from the artist. This may seem like a =
lot of markup for someone who didn't have a hand in creating your work, =
but if you consider that the gallery is spending money on expensive =
retail space, has to pay staff salaries that you don't usually have, and =
can't easily predict the sales volume, it works out not to be a very =
high profit margin.
Now, if you have an intermediate distributor involved then the =
percentages work out somewhat differently, because the distributor also =
wants a percentage. But your case is pretty direct.
The main value of having someone else responsible for the retail end of =
your work is that you should have more time to go and create more work =
and you don't have to spend time doing sales work that might be =
distasteful to you. Of course they can introduce more customers to your =
work that don't know where your workshop is or those who don't like to =
buy work on web sites. Your sales work may, however, be slightly =
transformed into something that feels more like marketing and publicity: =
in store appearances, sending out press releases, and so on may be =
required of you now.
You always have some kind of say in what kind of retail prices will be =
charged in the shop, but it's somewhat indirect. You can expect that the =
store will initially try to mark up more than you would, and only reduce =
prices if they can't get sales for that price in the time they want to =
clear the inventory. Basically, your control over pricing is that you =
can decide how much you're willing to part with your work for when =
you're not the salesperson.
One gallery in Mashiko sells, for example, sake cups from a particular =
artist at about $30/each. The artist earns about $18 on each of them. =
However, if the same piece was sold at a high rent department store in =
Tokyo, it might cost the retail customer $60 or more.
I doubt that you will have any exclusivity requirements from the dealer. =
If you are working with a high end gallery they may not want you to have =
another show in the same market going on at the same time you're being =
highlighted, but even they probably won't try to stop you from having =
your work available for sale elsewhere.
When someone else is interested in selling your work, it's probably also =
a good idea to rethink how much you're selling your work for in general. =
Maybe you need to increase your own prices now that your work is in more =
demand. Your pricing decisions contribute to the perceived value of your =
work.
Jason Truesdell
http://www.yuzutrade.com/
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Simona Drentea=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:56 AM
Subject: Help with wholesale - I'm clueless
I need help, I'm a newbie & I don't really understand wholesale or =
even the
concept. I understand setting a price for my pieces but not how or =
why I would
set a different price for wholesale. I stopped in at one of my fave =
gift
shops in a touristy part of town. The owner sells all original work, =
primarily
ceramics. I told her that I am new but making raku pieces that might =
fit in
well with her shop. She invited me to make an appt so she can see my =
work. I
did ask how she works with artists & she buys the pieces outright. I =
know from
reading this list that that's a good thing :-) Here's the part where =
I need
help. I am clueless! She made reference to wholesale, so I guess =
she's not
expecting to pay what I would ask retail.
Can anyone help me with the protocol & guidelines on this? Who sets
wholesale prices? Me or her? Should I expect her to make me an offer =
or vice versa?
Is there some sort of guideline on what a wholesale price should be =
(ie; a
percentage of retail)? Does the artist typically have a say in what =
retail
price the shop will sell it for? Should I even ask what price she =
would will it
for? Do shops usually require exclusivity or some type of =
non-compete? As you
can see, I know nothing & any help would be dearly appreciated! I'm =
don't
want to commit any faux pas' but I also don't want to let on how =
totally
clueless I am :-)
Also, just in general, what are the advantages of selling pieces =
wholesale?
The only thing I can come up with is that she has many more customers =
than I
would just selling on the 'net, but are there some other advantages =
that
haven't occurred to me?
Thanks!
Simona in CO where it's finally RAINING! Hopefully on the wildfire =
too!
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to =
clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from =
http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
Snail Scott on sun 4 apr 04
At 02:56 AM 4/3/04 EST, you wrote:
>...I don't really understand wholesale or even the
>concept...Who sets
>wholesale prices?
You can set them yourself, but since you are new in the trade,
and this shop is apparently successful, ask the owner's advice.
50% is common, but not universal by any means. Set the retail,
first.
With wholesale, (as opposed to direct sales) you get less
money per piece, but in theory, the difference in price is
'paying' for a service: someone else's time, resources, and
expertise or those aspects of sales that you don't have to
do anymore. Whether the 'accounting' will come out ahead for
you personally depends on many variables, though.
...Does the artist typically have a say in what retail
>price the shop will sell it for? Should I even ask what price she would
will it
>for?
YES! This is the important number. Especially if you sell
through other venues, your retail prices should always be
comparable. The shop will not be pleased if customers
can buy direct from you (or another shop) for less. If the
shop bases its wholesale prices on a percentage of retail,
set the retail price first, then decide whether you can
live with whatever the wholesale price turns out to be.
If it's too low, don't wholesale there, or else try for
a higher retail price. (Ideally, the contract will specify
both.) If the shop has a sale, or offers a discount, it
ought to be done only with permission. (Contracts can
include details of what's OK; anything else should have
your permission first.) If they want to raise prices, they
need to OK that with you, too, so you can keep your prices
consistent elsewhere.
Many shops prefer to have no obligation to the artist
after their purchase; after all, it's now their stuff. But
a good shop will recognize the reciprocal advantage of
keeping the artist in the loop, even on wholesale buys.
(Consignment is a whole 'nother ball of wax!) ;)
Rely on the shop-owner's judgement about retail pricing.
They probably have a pretty good sense of how much they
can ask. Too low, and the artist won't keep working with
them; too high and nobody makes any money. It's in the
shop owner's interest to set the best price.
>...Do shops usually require exclusivity or some type of non-compete?
Some do, but they'd better commit to a substantial level of
service for that. (Some amount of advertising, a guaranteed
minimum order per month for the term of the contract, or
some such.) 'Exclusivity' can be flexible, too. Same state?
Same town? Same neighborhood?No other shops, but craft fairs
or studio and internet sales OK? Anyplace but the shop next
door? etc.
>...what are the advantages of selling pieces wholesale?
1) You don't have to store the inventory; they do.
2) You don't need a clean, easy-to-find showroom.
3) You don't have to mess with sales tax.
4) You don't have to be there to sell it.
5) You don't have to deal with neurotic customers.
6) No shipping hassles.
7) You can 'piggyback' on their reputation and their
pool of loyal customers.
8) You can learn from their experience in the trade.
9) A buffer between you and bad checks.
10)Less time spent selling; more time spent making stuff.
-Snail
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