Lee Love on mon 5 apr 04
Hendrix, Taylor J. wrote:
>knowledgeable as your comments imply. I'm worried that the heavy
>reliance on 'knowledgeable' customers may be a bit naive and perhaps
>unrealistic.
>
Taylor, from my perspective, it is your
responsibility to educate your customers. Don't sell anything you
are not willing to teach people how to use. If we take the attitude
that we must make all work safe for the microwave and dishwasher, (which
doesn't actually guarantee "food safety"), pretty soon we will see the
government legislating this. Things like majolica, wood fired work,
and raku will be banned for food use. Not because they are unsafe to
use correctly, but because of the mentality that we have to tupperwarize
all our work because we don't think people who have the brains to know
you don't put tupperware in the oven, cannot be taught the proper
treatment of a raku tea bowl or finely decorated enamel ware.
Some people use these "safety" labels as marketing
tools. That's okay. Let them do it, but I believe there are better
ways to insure the safe use of pottery. My approach is to stay away
from the hazardous raw materials (garbage in, garbage out), preparing
and using materials in the proper, time tested way, and by educating
people about the proper use of the things I make. Actually, the use of
"food safe" is probably a misnomer and may keep makers from taking
responsibility for their educating duties. It is like the "toilet
flush" syndrome, where just because we don't see the filth, we think we
have dealt with it. If we look at how traditional stoneware, made
for every day use, was made in its country of origin, we can learn a lot
about how to make and use it safely.
For me educating it is the best part about selling face
to face, and it is why I primarily sold from my studio/home in St.
Paul. I did not get into pottery for the simple purpose of selling a
product. I became a potter for very subversive reasons: I see
materialism, the fundamentalist belief in "material progress", and the
forcing of people into conforming their behavior to the convenience of
machines, as very destructive aspects of modern life. So, I see
the making of folk craft as more than simply making objects. It is
about reclaiming culture and helping us live more whole and integrated
lives.
> Many Westerners rarely if ever eat sushi or raw fish of
>any kind.
>
Taylor, you live in a particular part of America, Texas. :-)
In other parts of the country, sushi is pretty common. Everybody who
has ever come to my studio to a sale or open house have had a chance to
try sushi. Where you live, it might be recommended that you shouldn't
sell sushi plates, unless you are willing to educate your customers and
also promote sushi by having it at your open house for them to try. It
is important to be responsible for what you make.
I remember seeing George Bush on T.V. , when he puked in his
sushi platter and then fell under the table. When I saw that I said,
"Damn, gonna scare all the good Ol` boys away from sushi! " ;-)
But if you travel to the coasts or up to Minneapolis, you'll find it
more common, especially amongst the folks who have some knowledge about
Japanese ceramics (the folks that use to buy my work) and also the art
scene (people who came to buy Jean's work.)
>I'm a Japonophile and have read up on Oribe ware. I decide to use the
>glazes on my interpretation of sushi plate. What are my customer's
>assumptions on how to use that ware?
>
It is not good enough to be a "Japanophile." When I
make something, I always have an idea of its use before I start making
it. What ever I make, I use before I make it and understand the whole
cultural iceberg that is supporting the object. This must be
considered if you are going to make something genuine.
If you are not willing to do it, it might make better sense to
make "Pork Rind" dishes instead of sushi platters.
>is that going to help me? That tradition does not address the question
>of stability with respect to leaching.
>
>
People know, over the course of hundreds of years of use, that
oribe ware works for its intended use. Sushi is not that caustic, I
assure you. And because of the nature of sushi, it doesn't spend
much time sitting on its plate. If it does sit on the plate for long,
then you have to worry about the healthful state of the sushi itself.
;-) You don't cook it either, and you never put sushi in the fridge.
>wasabi? I know it really kicks a punch. Yum. I still can't find any
>information about raw fish flesh and its acidity but I'll look further.
>
>
The rice vinegar is pretty mild. I gave the number for fish, it
is pretty near neutral, 6 to 7pH. And you have to understand that 7pH
chosen for neutral is based on the arbitrary choice of the pH of water
as the midpoint. It doesn't mean that something with the pH of 6 is
going to cause acid burns if you get it on your flesh. I don't know
if wasabi is acidic. It has a peculiar kind of hot. It normally
doesn't touch the sushi plate anyway, it is either on top the rice or
mixed in a small dish with soy sauce. I am guessing there are more
troublesome hazards in your wooden throwaway chopsticks than on the
sushi platter
>such concerns? Is it silent? Now that we truly are privy to ceramic
>traditions worlds away from our own, how does one deal with the alleged
>disparity in ceramic knowledge or lore or whatever you want to call
>knowing how to treat your teapot.
>
>What do you think?
>
>
A crucial thing to keep in mind for the studio-artist is, What
kind of work that is made by these two types of approaches?.
Look at the work that comes out of the industrial approach and then
look at the work that comes out of the traditional approach.
What is preserved and what is lots in these divergent mindsets?
Sometimes, we can't see the forests for the trees.
Hey, gotta go make some pots!
Lee In Mashiko http://mashiko.org
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 6 apr 04
Dear Lee Love,
In a recent post you made to following statement
<<.... And you have to understand that 7pH chosen for neutral is based
on the arbitrary choice of the pH of water as the midpoint. ...>>>
In that case I have been deceived by all of the people with whom I
have studied Chemistry during the past sixty years.
Accepting you are correct, what does pH mean and why was this scale
chosen?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
.
Ron Roy on tue 6 apr 04
This is beginning to sound like the old argument - is the glass half full
or half empty - or is the glass just too big.
I was wondering when the fearsome government regulations argument was going
to show up.
So we should keep things exactly as they are and that will help us being
overlooked. Or should we be prepared so our work can pass whatever test
they dream up?
Picture this - a drinking vessel glazed with an oribe type glaze - usually
so much copper that it is visible as black copper right on the surface of
the glaze. Some poor soul with Wilson's disease decides to drink their
orange juice out of it. Copper oxide is very soluble in orange juice and
even small quantities are deadly to those with Wilson's. Guess what happens
if anyone puts the glazes together with the results?
OK - you can't find anyone making something that someone could drink orange
juice out of. How about a pitcher that is used to store rehydrated orange
juice. Maybe a casserole or maybe just a bowl with tomato sauce in it over
night.
In all this talk about getting sued and using traditional glazes and
wishing all this discussion would just go away - I am hearing precious
little about being responsible, craftmanship and plain common sense.
What we need in the end are liner glazes that will do what they are
supposed to do - which means - not add to the food they are in contact with
- at least nothing that can be considered a problem - for anyone. Seems
clear to me!
In the meantime - educate as many of your customers as possible - but that
will never solve the problem - too many customers and too many bad liner
glazes for that.
RR
> from my perspective, it is your
>responsibility to educate your customers. Don't sell anything you
>are not willing to teach people how to use. If we take the attitude
>that we must make all work safe for the microwave and dishwasher, (which
>doesn't actually guarantee "food safety"), pretty soon we will see the
>government legislating this. Things like majolica, wood fired work,
>and raku will be banned for food use. Not because they are unsafe to
>use correctly, but because of the mentality that we have to tupperwarize
>all our work because we don't think people who have the brains to know
>you don't put tupperware in the oven, cannot be taught the proper
>treatment of a raku tea bowl or finely decorated enamel ware.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Lee Love on wed 7 apr 04
Hi Ivor,
John said that most foods were acidic. Looking at the charts,
I accepted his judgment as meaning, that 6.99999 is acidic but 7pH is
neutral. If you look at it this way, most foods are acidic. But
for practical purposes, 6.9999 is not acidic. Sorry I wasn't clearer.
Lee in Mashiko
surf with Lee: http://hachiko.com
John Hesselberth on wed 7 apr 04
On Wednesday, April 7, 2004, at 08:35 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> But
> for practical purposes, 6.9999 is not acidic
Hmmm. Were there some that were 6.9999?? Must have missed those.
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 8 apr 04
Not my point Lee.
I agree that your evaluation of the numbers means pH7.
I was concerned that you tell us that the pH scale is fixed
arbitrarily meaning that is was not related to the chemical behaviour
of the materials in question. I wondered about the origin of that
notion.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
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