clennell on thu 15 apr 04
Sour Cherry Pottery
> On Wednesday, April 14, 2004, at 07:41 PM, Lee Love wrote:
>
>> We need to make safe work but we
>> also need to educate people about the proper use of traditional and
>> folk
>> pottery.
>
> Hi Lee,
>
> Ah yes, tradition! Traditions come in at least 3 varieties: Good, bad,
> and neither, but nice.
John: You guys that get religion scare me. Lead kills, cigs kill, copper
kills. I now have Clayarters e-mailing me saying i really like your work but
have you had it lab tested? John H has a shino on his site that is toxic so
all shinos are toxic.
This scare mongering is not advancing studio ceramics. It is giving some
people a little bit of information that they sing as the gospel. You are
spreading the Mexican lead scare all over again.
Your note to Lee is taking things to extremes. having a cup of tea out of
your favourite MacKenzie copper tea bowl each day ain't gonna kill ya,
having a smoke every once in a while ain't gonna kill ya and lead glazes are
not all bad for you. I just bought a sweet little Micheal Hunt teapot
woodfired, lead glazed earthenware teapot. Did I ask if it was lab tested?
Never crossed my mind until I returned home to clayart. Scare mongering!!!
Standing outside on your driveway when the wind is blowing is going to kill
ya. Oh no, silica dust. Run indoors, wear a mask.
Haven't smoked in years! I feel like having a cigar.
Cheers,
Tony
Tony and Sheila Clennell
Sour Cherry Pottery
4545 King Street
Beamsville, Ontario
CANADA L0R 1B1
http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
Paul Lewing on fri 16 apr 04
Tony, you've reopened a debate we've had a number of times on Clayart, and
it's probably one we should keep having.
My take on this whole argument is that it's a personal decision, especially
when you're making the judgement about what you'll do in your studio, as
opposed to what you'll expose your customers to.
I think that every one of us draws this line where we need to, but every one
of us has to draw a line somewhere. Since silicosis is a risk for all of
us, it's not possible to use clay and glazes and have a zero tolerance for
hazardous materials in our studios. It's not possible to have a zero
tolerance for risk anywhere in life, so we all choose how much of which
risks we're going to take. Of course we all want to expose ourselves and
our customers to as little risk as possible, but at least when it comes to
ourselves, zero risk is not possible.
So I respect those people who make the decision not to have lead, barium,
lithium, manganese, cadmium, chrome, vanadium, uranium, or whatever it is in
their studios. It's their decision. Is it paranoia? Who knows? For some
of those, there's no conclusive scientific proof of anything, just
speculation. For some, there's real evidence of risk, under certain
conditions, but not under others.
Personally I choose to draw the line to include using just about everything.
My particular style of glazing relies heavily on the widest possible range
of formulas and effects. I've used all those things I listed, but usually
in very small amounts, and I keep my studio pretty clean, though I'm
probably more cavalier than I should be. That's where I've drawn the line
for me.
But everyone needs to decide where the line is for them. Just remember-
it's never, and can't be, at zero.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Dave Finkelnburg on fri 16 apr 04
Dear Tony,
I really need to get to eastern Canada. This is the sort of subject
that can only be intelligently discussed at close range. For starters, I
need to know if you are just stirring the pot here! :-) I know you are an
intelligent person, along with being a wonderful artist and great teacher,
so you don't make pots that make people ill, and wouldn't want anyone else
to.
Like you, I don't have an irrational fear of glaze ingredients. I use
barium, sometimes, some places, and lithium, and I eat, daily, off some
pottery that has lead in the glaze, but it was put there by folks who knew
precisely what they were doing and monitored and controlled their process
very carefully, so it is "tested" and I know it's safe. I make pots today
that I am certain are food-safe, not because I was taught how to do that,
but because I learned, mainly from Clayart, but also from some books and
magazines, that it's possible to make ware that isn't foodsafe. So I asked
questions and studied and learned what to do, what not to do, to make pots
that I never have to worry about.
I live in fear of the day, and it will come, when we read about some
amateurish pottery that makes a user ill. For the family who drank orange
juice every day from their badly lead-glazed earthenware Mexican pitcher,
that wasn't a "lead scare." That was an ugly, tragic reality. And it made
huge headlines decades ago that still cost me sales, every year.
Talking about HOW and WHY to make pots that won't make such headlines is
not "scare mongering," Tony. It's just good sense.
All the best,
Dave Finkelnburg, in Idaho, stepping down off my soap box to go
check the temperature on a firing kiln load of, I think, moderately
attractive, food-safe pots...
----- Original Message -----
From: "clennell"
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 5:57 PM
> John: You guys that get religion scare me. Lead kills, cigs kill, copper
> kills. I now have Clayarters e-mailing me saying i really like your work b
ut
> have you had it lab tested? John H has a shino on his site that is toxic
so
> all shinos are toxic.
> This scare mongering is not advancing studio ceramics. It is giving some
> people a little bit of information that they sing as the gospel. You are
> spreading the Mexican lead scare all over again.
> Your note to Lee is taking things to extremes. having a cup of tea out
of
> your favourite MacKenzie copper tea bowl each day ain't gonna kill ya,
> having a smoke every once in a while ain't gonna kill ya and lead glazes
are
> not all bad for you. I just bought a sweet little Micheal Hunt teapot
> woodfired, lead glazed earthenware teapot. Did I ask if it was lab tested?
> Never crossed my mind until I returned home to clayart. Scare mongering!!!
primalmommy on fri 16 apr 04
Tony Clennel wrote:
"having a cup of tea out of
your favourite MacKenzie copper tea bowl each day ain't gonna kill ya,
having a smoke every once in a while ain't gonna kill ya and lead glazes
are
not all bad for you."
Tony, you forgot to include the word "immediately" after "ain't gonna
kill ya". It would be an interesting world if everything that led to a
slow deterioration of health, cancer, or just a few missing brain
functions, had a "fast acting" effect. It would be much more like cave
man society when we could make a logical connection between "a
rattlesnake bit him" and "he dropped dead"... a quick illustration of
"don't eat the white berries" or "not a good idea to tease a saber tooth
tiger".
There is no connection anymore. Labels on booze bottles tell of possible
effects of misuse esp. when pregnant but it doesn't translate to the
graphic realities, the beaten wives and fetal alcohol syndrome
babies/children/adults, the winos peeing themselves on skid row, the
family that went through the windshield because somebody got drunk and
drove home. This message brought to you by the latest alcoholic
celebrity just out of rehab, looking for a liver transplant.
If only all toxins were "fast acting"... we'd see the cause and effect.
Phil would point at the pile of bodies in front of the hot dog vendor's
cart.. I would point to the scattered corpses around the cigarette
machine...
Like booze and cigars, glazes will probably not kill ya, and like Lee
says, there are responsible grownups out there who probably can use them
without bad effects, whether by informed use or just lucky chromosomes.
But also like booze and cigars, people get sick who didn't have any idea
how dangerous it was to begin with. I know nobody showed me the chemo
ward before I smoked my first cigarette, or walked me through
rehab/detox before my first bucket of beer.
And unlike pottery, nobody is handing whiskey or cigars to small
children, grannies, pregnant women, and john Q. public, with a note that
says "perfectly safe" or the assurance that all those people who don't
like lead poisoning, (cancer, cirrosis) are 'fear mongers".
I drink out of your coffee cup without asking questions, Tony. I
consider yoou a knowledgable (if stubborn) potter, and I'm past
childbearing age, and it would bum me if i learned shinos were toxic so
i am not asking. But I have come to be suspicious of "expert advice" in
three situations:
1.) when somebody is selling something. The guy from AAAfurnace sales
and service came to look at our old one and took it apart, declared it
hopeless, left it in pieces, said it needed to be replaced immediately,
$5000, call and make an appointment. The guy from BBBfurnace repair (no
sales) came out the next day, fixed it, left without charging me because
he was pissed at the first guy.
2.) When somebody is not willing to do the hard work involved with
making a change, so they come up with a million reasons to adapt reality
to their convenience. The guys whose roof is about to collapse can lie
in bed looking up, explaining to his wife in great detail all the
reasons the roof is as good as new.. because it seems too hard to build
a new one.
3.) When people are rationalizing choices that have already made and
can't unmake. Today you can't homeschool, breastfeed, or raise kids
without hitting them, unless you're prepared to be told what a bad idea
it is -- by fmaily members or total strangers who did it another way.
And god save us from the ones who have doubts about the choices they
made -- they'll be preaching the loudest.
All three of these categories are present in this potterly discussion
about glazes. Folks are selling pots with stable glazes and pots with
unstable ones, and thus motivations to spin things one way or the other.
Folks are selling books, or testing services, folks are selling lead
glazed pots and uranium glazes, folks are selling pre-packaged glazes...
A local potter I respect has started from scratch, with glazing, when he
realized a lot of the stuff he had always considered safe (he is not a
young potter) was potentially dangerous, to him and to his customers. It
was a lot of work, and he lost valuable production time doing it, and
struggled to come up with glazed that suited his aesthetic. It beats
trying to hold up the sagging roof with words... but not everybody is
willing to do the hard work.
And finally, there are potters who have done things unsafely for so long
-- and shared the dangers with loved ones and customers -- that rather
than deal with the worry/guilt/responsibility for those choices, they
scan clayart looking for posts like yours, to interpret as a "get out of
responsibility free" card, so they can just ignore the other
information.
How many times have you heard a chain smoker or heavy drinker crow
gleefully about the 90 year old who smoked/drank all his life and died
of perfect good health? Or reported on the health food fanatic who
exercised and died anyway? Reassuring, yes.. clicheed, sure.. but not
exactly a scientific sample.
I think everybody in this ongoing perennial conversation should take a
moment, privately, and ask themselves: might I have some hidden
motivation for choosing this stand on the issue? self promotion,
laziness, fear of regret?
Personally, I don't make a dime promoting safer glazes. I haven't
produced/sold enough work or mixed enough glazes to have regrets, yet.
Somebody is wrong here. The way I figure it, if many glazes are
dangerous and folks are told not to worry, the result could be negative.
If those glazes are actually pretty benign and the
"reformers/fearmongers" have some impact, we'll live in a world where
glazes are safer than they have to be. Oh, the horror.
Yours, kelly in Ohio
making a list of stuff that doesn't kill ya.. alzheimers doesn't kill
ya... parkinsons doesn't kill ya.. mental retardation doesn't kill ya..
emphysema doesn't kill ya.. most brain damage doesn't kill ya...
paralysis doesn't kill ya.. most nerve damage doesn't kill ya.. where's
that bastarache list?
maybe i set my standards too high but "probably not instantly fatal" is
just not a solid recommendation, to me..
_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com
Joe Coniglio on fri 16 apr 04
Tony---We must have worked a chain gang in a former life.
(and we were both innnocent men!!---naturally---)
-------
For all of you out there --Tony-- knows what the hell he's talking about.
But don't let him amble alone, do more than listen, throw in! You ain't
gonna get bit... I wish more of you were like this devoted fellow. He's
the one of the last great potters still contributing to this group gone
soft.
----
Ovensafe. Lead Free.
I keep a stoneware casserole cone 11 in my dishwasher for weeks
and week on end to see the effects of phosphates (still allowed for
dishwashers here in the US) on the surface. So far A-okay. But-- I'm
discovering the reduced unglazed clay layer (on the bottom of the pot
and on the unglaze inner rims) though as-hard-as-stone has some
porocity to capture oils and food odours. Baked some sourkraut in
bacon and duck fat in it and still can't get the stink out after 3 weeks.
I'm concerned what my customers might think. --It was good in that
heavy pot though-- and the stoneware held the heat longer than cast
iron. (which is not a good choice for kraut)
---------
Finding (Glaze) religion. Rory Gallagher a Blues guitarist who is now
deceased and at many points could be found in the bargain bin,
though resurrected on the new Buddha records remastering....
"I could of had religion... ...but my little girl wouldn't let me pray...
...she stole my spirit away.... ...she stole my spirit away.... ...she stole
my spirit away.... I've been a bad man.... as bad can be....
----
If you take things too seriously ---You're wasting your time---
---
Take a chance, go out on a limb. I'm hungry for more esoteric
responses including philosophical, moral, practical thoughts on pots.
---
Look for me in Delta, Colorado after July 1.
I'm retiring to devote a full life to pottery at age 49.
Garnet Mesa Pottery
garnet_mesa_pottery@yahoo.com
Joe Coniglio
(914) 980-8788 (US cell)
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on fri 16 apr 04
Hey David
Eastern Canada starts on this side of the Ottawa river,
Tony lives on the other side (Hehehehehe);
something like a 12 hour drive from here.
We went to Niagara Falls for our honeymoon trip 28 years
ago and that is where my wife started to learn English:
there were "Watch your step" signs on every staircase;
so these were they only words she knew for many years
afterwards until I send her to Berlitz to learn Shakespeare's
language because she was bugging me all the time to translate
TV programs in this language. She thought I was a
professional translater like they have at the House of
Commons in Ottawa.
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
John Hesselberth on fri 16 apr 04
On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 07:57 PM, clennell wrote:
> John H has a shino on his site that is toxic so
> all shinos are toxic.
Uh, Tony would you mind pointing out to me where this is? If you're
going to make accusations you might ought to get them straight.
Furthermore I rarely, if ever, use the word toxic. I do use the words
stable and durable frequently.
I do have a glaze called Falls Creek Shino (aka Randy's Oatmeal Rust)
on my site which was tested for lithium and it was below the detectable
limit. That's probably the only place on my site the word shino is
mentioned.
As for the rest of your rant, if you want to have a rational discussion
about it after you cool off, well, maybe. But I don't plan to comment
further while you're in this state of mind.
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
David Woof on sat 17 apr 04
cheers tony, well said. ignorance kills, not ignorance of facts so
much as a passive choice to be so by not thinking, i mean the lazy distrust
of one,s own ability to reason and apply logic. for instance( and let the
originator of this question please forgive me for choosing this example)
someone awhile back asked " will bone ash from mad cows harm me.?"
well... get a grip on this for god's or somebody's sake . WE are clay
people, fire people, how hot is it when a cow turns to ash? what harmful
organism could survive? We as a human species decide at three A.M. who is
a safe sex partner by "desire and belief" and then write to clay art with
our worry about glaze ingrediants.
we have much evidence in a generation of crusty old potters who are potting
to the wee hrs of their lives, 80's and 90's and beyond that used all the
stuff we are going to die from for sure.
if there is a common denominator in their longevity it starts with joy in
accompli
quality over quanity and plenty of both with joy in clay to all,shment,
something to get out of bed earlly for, like exciting pots to trim, or a
sculpture to finish.
certainly we must handle potentially harmfull substances with care. this
goes to what tony said re education and full information.
the last year or so we at clay art have a few experts who answer all the
questions for an increasingly passive "spoon feed me" group who would gain
much, and contribute much if they did a little experimenting first and then
asked for help after shareing what they had already acomplished or failed
to.
how much initive does it take to try a new material in an old glaze recipe?
Ponder three minutes , whip up a 100g batch in seven and test in the next
fire. educate your self, learn to trust your self as you acomplish
something personaly meaningful. Trust your self, fear less, what
could possible go irreparably wrong? unless you do something obviously
stupiid like opening a front loading gas kiln at cone ten with out
protective gear. trust this, you will ignite.
It's about takeing responsibility for the outcomes of our endeavors and our
lives, that ocasional failures are part of the learning route to successes
and significant discovery.
for our clay friends who "must do the chicken little" Fear this, it's
real ; one piece paper money in ten carries a deadly infectious organism so
with those odds how come we are not all dead? or twenty some years ago the
solvent benzine was outlawed for use as a cleaneng agent in labs, yet it
remains in gasoline and is pumped into the air we breathe by thr millions of
fuel guzzeling conveyences we drive every where without responsible
thought. Or when the lead was taken out of gasoline what replaced it? it
was there for a physicle reason. me, i fell guilty, but how else would i
get my pots to market?
the really scarey things aren't in the studio. lets wash our hands after we
poop and before we eat, pot some, love some, get some rest when we need it,
eat and drink the best stuff we can find or afford, educate and edify
each other and let the xxperts worry for us.
Love David
David McNulty-Woof
Clarkdale, Arizona
928-649-5927
Always peering over the edge, reverently takeing an irreverent look
at everything.
_________________________________________________________________
Lose those love handles! MSN Fitness shows you two moves to slim your waist.
http://fitness.msn.com/articles/feeds/article.aspx?dept=exercise&article=et_pv_030104_lovehandles
Lee Love on sun 18 apr 04
Paul Lewing wrote:
>Tony, you've reopened a debate we've had a number of times on Clayart, and
>it's probably one we should keep having.
>My take on this whole argument is that it's a personal decision, especially
>when you're making the judgement about what you'll do in your studio, as
>opposed to what you'll expose your customers to.
>I think that every one of us draws this line where we need to, but every one
>of us has to draw a line somewhere.
>
Thank you Paul. This is my perspective too. I've always praised
Ron and John's work and help for people who want to go their route.
But is isn't "The one true way." "Oldtimers" who choose not the
"come around" aren't necessarily stubborn, or stupid or , or careless.
Most of the ones I know have made a conscious and rational choice and
are often influenced by the aesthetic they have chosen. My goal has
never been to change the true believer's mind, but to make new folks
aware of alternate approaches available to them to make great work.
What helps is to look at the work of the Masters and not just us "Johnny
come latelys." The way things are made has a huge effect on the
aesthetic outcome.
Some ways of working are are open to certain methods
and strategies. For example: glaze calculation works very well if
one limits oneself to industrially refined, and "controlled/mastered"
materials. If you use non-industrial, potter specific materials,
calculation can work if you are using only one and sometimes two
non-refined material in your glaze. But when you go beyond one or
two, you are just practicing voodoo because the variability of the
materials will go against any precision you require for the method.
This variability of outcome is precisely why using "potter specific
materials" is so desirable to the aesthetic that requires them.. But
working with these materials requires a more experiential approach, one
that requires more testing, Using non-industrial materials is not
"unscientific", it just requires that you use different methodology.
One that is not so welcomed by industry, because it fosters the
variability that industry cannot accept because it interferes with
cheap, reproducible, identical, and often dead products.
Also, our initial approach and mindset can have huge effects upon
the outcome of our work. If we approach our craft with the industrial
mindset of "mastering" it, our work will lean toward a more
controlled, precise and intellectual nature. If we see our art as a
cooperation between the maker and his materials and tools, where the
maker is always receiving feedback from his tools and materials and
changes himself accordingly, we will tend toward work that is more
natural, has feeling and is more intuitive. These are not
absolutes, but if you are aware of the effects that different
approaches have upon your work, you can make adjustments to foster the
inferior aspect of the work. Of course, some folks might desire
controlled and precise work. But it is an aesthetic choice, if we are
aware of the character of the methods we use.
Getting outside of an intellectual perspective helps us see and
appreciate the differences.
>So I respect those people who make the decision not to have lead, barium,
>lithium, manganese, cadmium, chrome, vanadium, uranium, or whatever it is in
>their studios.
>
Paul, do you not use spodumene? No "American" shinos?
What made me realize that glaze calculation doesn't work well in the
context of natural materials was when I was trying to make my Minnesota
Shino recipes with spodumene substitutes: lithium carbonate and
petalite. None of the recalculations worked. While my lithium
carbonate and petalite were industrial materials, my other materials
were not. So I dropped trying to substitute for spodumene and have
found a couple non-spodumene shinos that work very well (let me know if
you'd like the recipes.)
>But everyone needs to decide where the line is for them. Just remember-
>it's never, and can't be, at zero.
>
Very well said.
My muscles have a comforting ache this morning: an
acknowledgment of the dance with the woodkilin yesterday. One of my
methodologies related to the Wood Kiln, I adopted from my teacher and
his teacher. I make an offering to the kiln at the beginning of the
glaze firing. My teacher and his teacher always offered sake and
salt. I had no sake on hand, so I offered salt and Hennesy
Cognac. Somehow, it makes the glazes come out better. Magic?
No. It reinforces a devotional approach to the work and reminds me
that no matter how much I desire control, in the end, the Muses will
have their say. :-)
Lee In Mashiko
Ron Roy on sun 18 apr 04
I would think that knowing about clay and glazes is part of what every
potter should know - at least a minimal amount. Calling craftsmanship a
religion is perfectly fine with me - the way it should be.
I can see how a question like this scares the daylights out of some
potters. I wonder what the answer was?
I. I don't know and I don't care.
2. I leave that sort of thing to other people - then I can criticize them.
3. I use my own glazes and there is nothing wrong with me.
4. If it is good enough for other potters it's good enough for me.
5. If you just look at the pots there is no problem.
6. No one ever had any ill effects from a glaze.
7. No I have never had any of my liner glazes tested but they contain
nothing to be concerned about.
8. I get expert opinion on all my liner glazes.
9. I personally test all my glazes for durability and fit.
10. All my glazes are lab tested for durability and personally tested for fit.
There are plenty of potters who can now answer this question intelligently
- they are still in the minority - but they don't have an anxiety attack
every time the subject comes up.
In fact the question is welcome because it points to an informed customer
and increases the chances of a sale.
If I were a studio potter - relying on sales of my work to survive I would
have a sign - all liner glazes tested and approved to be stable and durable
for use with food.
RR
>John: You guys that get religion scare me. Lead kills, cigs kill, copper
>kills. I now have Clayarters e-mailing me saying i really like your work but
>have you had it lab tested? John H has a shino on his site that is toxic so
>all shinos are toxic.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Paul Lewing on sun 18 apr 04
on 4/17/04 6:39 PM, Lee Love at Lee@MASHIKO.ORG wrote:
> Paul, do you not use spodumene?
Lee, I'll use almost anything if the result looks like I want it to look.
So, yes, I do.
No "American" shinos?
No. I fire at cone 4 in an electric kiln
I make an offering to the kiln at the beginning of the
> glaze firing. My teacher and his teacher always offered sake and
> salt. I had no sake on hand, so I offered salt and Hennesy
> Cognac. Somehow, it makes the glazes come out better. Magic?
> No. It reinforces a devotional approach to the work and reminds me
> that no matter how much I desire control, in the end, the Muses will
> have their say. :-)
And well said on your part, Lee. I used to have a studio partner who tossed
a pinch of marijuana into the peephole, and fired sometimes with a woman
from Sweden who observed what she said was a common custom there. She spit
inn the peepholes. The Muses will indeed have their say, but we like to
think we can coerce them.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Ron Roy on mon 19 apr 04
Hi Lee,
Strange you should use the voodoo - because what you are saying is just
that - there is no reason not to use calculation software with natural raw
materials. Only someone who does not would say it is not useful.
If you could get the analysis for the materials you use it would be easy
for me to demonstrate this.
Testing and adjusting is only one way - using calculation will certainly
cut down on the time spent testing and firing - and in some cases eliminate
the need for a 2nd round of testing.
Why on earth would you say such a thing? To what purpose? It's begining to
sound like - if it's new it can't be good.
We will agree though - that computers and the internet are good - and new.
RR
> Some ways of working are are open to certain methods
>and strategies. For example: glaze calculation works very well if
>one limits oneself to industrially refined, and "controlled/mastered"
>materials. If you use non-industrial, potter specific materials,
>calculation can work if you are using only one and sometimes two
>non-refined material in your glaze. But when you go beyond one or
>two, you are just practicing voodoo because the variability of the
>materials will go against any precision you require for the method.
>This variability of outcome is precisely why using "potter specific
>materials" is so desirable to the aesthetic that requires them.. But
>working with these materials requires a more experiential approach, one
>that requires more testing, Using non-industrial materials is not
>"unscientific", it just requires that you use different methodology.
>One that is not so welcomed by industry, because it fosters the
>variability that industry cannot accept because it interferes with
>cheap, reproducible, identical, and often dead products.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
John Hesselberth on mon 19 apr 04
Hi Lee,
I'd like to quote Michael Cardew, writing in Pioneer Pottery, in
response to part of what you stated below:
"It is sometimes held by artist potters, especially in England, that it
is a waste of time to calculate glazes according to the Seger formula;
that the method does not help in producing glazes of an interesting
aesthetic quality; that better glazes were made for centuries before
this method was introduced;....finally, that such calculation are
useless unless they are accurate, and that they cannot be accurate
unless one has a complete chemical analysis of each and all of one's
materials....
"In spite of these objections, the pioneer potter would be unwise to
deprive himself of this useful tool...which only involves quite simple
arithmetic. The pioneer in a strange country may often find he has to
use unknown materials. Even if they have not been analysed, an
approximate calculation based on intelligent guesswork is better than
random experimentation. The 'backyard pioneer' will often wish to try
out unusual raw materials, and here again, even approximate
calculations will help him. There so many possible causes of failure
that it would be a mistake for him to reject a method which saves
valuable time, which is certainly capable of enhancing both the
technical and the artistic merits of his glazes and which in the
process may possibly also enlarge the confines of his wits."
Now talk about heroes--Michael Cardew is mine! You speak eloquently
about preserving traditions. Glaze calculation is one tradition that
has been lost and should be revived. The potters of his time period
frequently used this tool to guide them. And they had to do it the hard
way.
If you want to read the complete quote and more of his views you can
find this passage on pages 130-131 of the edition published in the U.S.
in 1971. It is a book I would not be without.
Regards,
John
>
>> Some ways of working are are open to certain
>> methods
>> and strategies. For example: glaze calculation works very well if
>> one limits oneself to industrially refined, and "controlled/mastered"
>> materials. If you use non-industrial, potter specific materials,
>> calculation can work if you are using only one and sometimes two
>> non-refined material in your glaze. But when you go beyond one or
>> two, you are just practicing voodoo because the variability of the
>> materials will go against any precision you require for the method.
>> This variability of outcome is precisely why using "potter specific
>> materials" is so desirable to the aesthetic that requires them..
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
Lee Love on tue 20 apr 04
John Hesselberth wrote:
> I'd like to quote Michael Cardew, writing in Pioneer Pottery, in
> response to part of what you stated below:
Thanks John. Cardew has a pretty balanced view on the subject.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
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