Catherine Yassin on thu 22 apr 04
Hola! I have a question for all your Burnishers out there...are there
different burnishing tools that work best on different clays? For instance, does a
soft stone work better for porcelain and metal or rubber better for a grogged
clay, or visa versa? I am interested in your experiences. Or generally, is
rubber a better burnishing material than metal? And is a steel spoon or tool better
than say aluminum? Rounded better than flat? I know there will be no right or
wrong ways, but I'm curious as to what works best for you and your work.
Thanks in advance!
-Cat Yassin
San Antonio - Where Fiesta is in full Swing!
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 22 apr 04
Hi Catherine,
A burnisher as was traditional for some things, as Gold Leaf
say, was a large example of a (one may hope, innocently
disused) Dog's eye-tooth...
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Yassin"
> Hola! I have a question for all your Burnishers out
there...are there
> different burnishing tools that work best on different
clays? For instance, does a
> soft stone work better for porcelain and metal or rubber
better for a grogged
> clay, or visa versa? I am interested in your experiences.
Or generally, is
> rubber a better burnishing material than metal? And is a
steel spoon or tool better
> than say aluminum? Rounded better than flat? I know there
will be no right or
> wrong ways, but I'm curious as to what works best for you
and your work.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> -Cat Yassin
> San Antonio - Where Fiesta is in full Swing!
Maurice Weitman on fri 23 apr 04
At 8:49 -0600 on 4/23/04, Annie Chrietzberg wrote:
>I've heard a glass guitar slide is the magic bullet of burnishing.
I've found those ubiquitous 7-watt night light bulbs (shaped somewhat
like Beldar's conehead) to be quite handy. Small bulbs come in
various shapes and sizes. They're hard, light, and have a rounded
flat surface as well as the two more rounded spots on their tip and
near the base.
Regards,
Maurice
Snail Scott on fri 23 apr 04
At 05:43 PM 4/22/04 EDT, you wrote:
>...are there
>different burnishing tools that work best on different clays? For
instance, does a
>soft stone work better for porcelain and metal or rubber better for a grogged
>clay, or visa versa?
I find that 'hard and smooth' is always best.
Soft, fine clays may forgive more, but a hard
burnisher is still good. A soft burnisher will
be scratched by gritty clay and not work as
well thereafter; aluminum is not good for this
reason. A yielding material will not push the
grit and particles down as thoroughly, so rubber
is not good for that reason. Hard steel or
smooth polished stones are best, IMHO. A wide
flat surface can be better for wide areas,
small rounded shapes are better for small or
concave surfaces, and almost-pointy ones for
crevices. Shape is the only reason I'd have
multiple burnishers.
-Snail Scott
still in Reno, Nevada
Annie Chrietzberg on fri 23 apr 04
Cat,
I've heard a glass guitar slide is the magic bullet of burnishing. I
wouldn't use a spoon because the convex curve will be denting or
furrowing the clay as you burnish.
I'm no burnisher myself, but I've played one on TV,
Annie Chrietzberg
Ceramic Design Group
Steamboat Springs, CO
970.879.9139
On 22 Apr 2004, at 15:43, Catherine Yassin wrote:
> Hola! I have a question for all your Burnishers out there...are there
> different burnishing tools that work best on different clays? For
> instance, does a
> soft stone work better for porcelain and metal or rubber better for a
> grogged
> clay, or visa versa? I am interested in your experiences. Or
> generally, is
> rubber a better burnishing material than metal? And is a steel spoon
> or tool better
> than say aluminum? Rounded better than flat? I know there will be no
> right or
> wrong ways, but I'm curious as to what works best for you and your
> work.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> -Cat Yassin
> San Antonio - Where Fiesta is in full Swing!
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Vince Pitelka on fri 23 apr 04
> Hola! I have a question for all your Burnishers out there...are there
> different burnishing tools that work best on different clays?
Cat -
I have never thought of it this way, and I am sure that others will have
opinions on this. A burnishing tool is necessarily a hard, unyielding tool,
because that is what burnishing is by definition, whether you are working
with leather, wood, clay, fabric, or metal. If you use a soft material, it
is polishing, not burnishing. I suppose a hard rubber or plastic tool would
qualify as a burnishing tool, although the traditional burnishing tools are
generally stone, metal, bone, or polished wood.
I have always tried to use burnishing tools that are at least as hard as
glass, and that pretty much limits the field to polished stones. Go to
Nature Company or a rock shop, and take a small piece of glass with you,
like a vial or a mirror, or a piece of broken glass with the edges bound
with duct tape. When the salesperson isn't looking, rub the stone against
the smooth surface of the glass. If the glass scratches the stone, then the
stone isn't any good for burnishing. If the stone scratches the glass, and
if it is a smooth shape with no rough edges, then buy it. Don't go for the
smooth, spherical or oval stones. They don't have enough variety of surface.
You want an irregular stone what doesn't have any rough edges where they
will touch the surface you are burnishing.
That said, there are plenty of people who like to use the back of a
stainless steel spoon, and I heard of a group of tribal potters in Central
America who prefer the curved plastic top of a particular brand of shoe
polish. Importers of Chinese tools are selling a variety of tools made from
water buffalo horn, and I hear that they work well for burnishing.
No, there is no rule as to which tools work best with particular clays.
This is not an exact science. Ultimately, it comes down to "whatever works
for you."
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 24 apr 04
Dear Friends,
The essence of a burnishing tool, and I have several for working
silver, is that its surface is always harder than the material which
is to be burnished. It has to be this was so that the tool is not
abraded by the workpiece. If it were not so, the tool would become
roughened. Once this happens the tool tears the surface and the polish
obtained by compression is destroyed.
The purpose of Burnishing is to polish without removing material,
through friction and compression.
An ideal burnishing tool for leatherhard clay, if you do not wish to
keep repolishing its surface would be a polished sapphire. Large black
single sapphire crystals can be ground with diamond abrasives to a
high polish and give a variety of surface contours to use.
I could have recommended Agate, but this would be abraded by quartz
fragments in the clay body.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Saturday, 24 April 2004 9:45
Subject: Re: Different Burnishing tools for different clays?
> > Hola! I have a question for all your Burnishers out there...are
there
> > different burnishing tools that work best on different clays?
>
> Cat -
> I have never thought of it this way, and I am sure that ohers will
have
> opinions on this. A burnishing tool is necessarily a hard,
unyielding tool,
> because that is what burnishing is by definition, whether you are
working
> with leather, wood, clay, fabric, or metal. If you use a soft
material, it
> is polishing, not burnishing. I suppose a hard rubber or plastic
tool would
> qualify as a burnishing tool, although the traditional burnishing
tools are
> generally stone, metal, bone, or polished wood.
>
> I have always tried to use burnishing tools that are at least as
hard as
> glass, and that pretty much limits the field to polished stones. Go
to
> Nature Company or a rock shop, and take a small piece of glass with
you,
> like a vial or a mirror, or a piece of broken glass with the edges
bound
> with duct tape. When the salesperson isn't looking, rub the stone
against
> the smooth surface of the glass. If the glass scratches the stone,
then the
> stone isn't any good for burnishing. If the stone scratches the
glass, and
> if it is a smooth shape with no rough edges, then buy it. Don't go
for the
> smooth, spherical or oval stones. They don't have enough variety of
surface.
> You want an irregular stone what doesn't have any rough edges where
they
> will touch the surface you are burnishing.
>
> That said, there are plenty of people who like to use the back of a
> stainless steel spoon, and I heard of a group of tribal potters in
Central
> America who prefer the curved plastic top of a particular brand of
shoe
> polish. Importers of Chinese tools are selling a variety of tools
made from
> water buffalo horn, and I hear that they work well for burnishing.
>
> No, there is no rule as to which tools work best with particular
clays.
> This is not an exact science. Ultimately, it comes down to
"whatever works
> for you."
> Good luck -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Vince Pitelka on sun 25 apr 04
> I once saw a video documentary about the pueblo potters in the US
> southwest. The potters showed the film maker a selection of polishing
> stones which were "handed down from generation to generation." I
> suspect they were pulling the film maker's leg, since in my experience
> even hard polished stones wear out very quickly.
Bob -
Your experience supercedes theirs? I am not sure what kind of stones you
are using or what kind of clay you are polishing, but in my experience, good
hard burnishing stones do not wear out over time. I have some agates that I
have used for at least fifteen years. Before polished stones were readily
available in Nature Company stores, souvenier shops, and rock shops, such
stones were hard to find, and were treasured. Native American tribes traded
with their neighbors to get good burnishing stones, and when they had good
ones, they did pass them down through many generations. Obsidian seems to
have been a popular choice. I have seen pictures of the selections of
burnishing stones used by Maria Martinez, Margaret Tafoya, and others. They
always have a collection including a range of sizes, each very smooth
overall but irregular in shape, in order to offer a choice of surfaces to
reach into different contours.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Bob Nicholson on sun 25 apr 04
>The essence of a burnishing tool, and I have several for working
>silver, is that its surface is always harder than the material which
>is to be burnished. It has to be this was so that the tool is not
>abraded by the workpiece. If it were not so, the tool would become
>roughened. Once this happens the tool tears the surface and the polish
>obtained by compression is destroyed.
>Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
I use a variety of hard polished stones for burnishing. I find that the stones
become abraded over time... I throw them out and use "fresh" stones.
I once saw a video documentary about the pueblo potters in the US
southwest. The potters showed the film maker a selection of polishing
stones which were "handed down from generation to generation." I
suspect they were pulling the film maker's leg, since in my experience
even hard polished stones wear out very quickly.
- Bob Nicholson
Vince Pitelka on tue 27 apr 04
> So, my question is - do you really know of instances of burnishing
> stones being passed down over the years, and continuing to be useable?
> Or could this be something that has entered the collective folklore?
Bob -
Jeese, why in the world would you even dispute something like this? I have
heard of it in so many different sources, and there is no reason at all that
Native Americans would decieve anyone about this. As I said before,
traditionally, polished rocks were a rare and valuable thing. So OF COURSE
they would take very good care of them, and OF COURSE they would pass them
down through generations of potters. And a good hard polished stone just
gets shinier as a result of burnishing.
You say you saw Native Americans handling their burnishing stones
carelessly? Sorry, Bob, but there is not much chance of that. A good
burnishing stone is a rare and wonderful thing, whether it has been handed
down through generations, or purchased this morning at the Nature Company in
the local mall. Anyone who burnishes seriously treasures their stones.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Bob Nicholson on tue 27 apr 04
>Bob -
>Your experience supercedes theirs? I am not sure what kind of stones you
>are using or what kind of clay you are polishing, but in my experience, good
>hard burnishing stones do not wear out over time. I have some agates that I
>have used for at least fifteen years. Before polished stones were readily
>available in Nature Company stores, souvenier shops, and rock shops, such
>stones were hard to find, and were treasured. Native American tribes traded
>with their neighbors to get good burnishing stones, and when they had good
>ones, they did pass them down through many generations. Obsidian seems to
>have been a popular choice. I have seen pictures of the selections of
>burnishing stones used by Maria Martinez, Margaret Tafoya, and others. They
>always have a collection including a range of sizes, each very smooth
>overall but irregular in shape, in order to offer a choice of surfaces to
>reach into different contours.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
No, of course I'm not suggesting that my experience supercedes theirs. I am
suggesting that often people have fun with filmmakers and journalists, and
what gets captured is not exactly "true." But I'm certainly not an expert
in this area.
As far as the collections of stones used by well-known potters - yes,
I think most people who burnish share the experience of collecting a variety
of shapes and sizes, though it is certainly easier to buy them in a rock shop
than to search for them and collect them.
I still question (not dispute, just question) the likelihood of stones being
passed down for generations. Even if the stone is much harder than the
clay being burnished, there will sometimes be bits of harder material in
the clay, especially if it is naturally gathered and prepared. Also, the
stones get banged together, dropped, and chipped in a variety of ways.
Certainly, the potters I have watched at San Ildefonso, Santa Clara and
Taos pueblos did not treat their burnishing stones as particularly
precious objects (though this may be a generational change due to the
easy availability of stones today).
So, my question is - do you really know of instances of burnishing
stones being passed down over the years, and continuing to be useable?
Or could this be something that has entered the collective folklore?
- Bob
Hal Giddens on tue 27 apr 04
>
> From: Bob Nicholson
> Date: 2004/04/27 Tue PM 12:40:25 EDT
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Different Burnishing tools for different clays?
>
>
> So, my question is - do you really know of instances of burnishing
> stones being passed down over the years, and continuing to be useable?
> Or could this be something that has entered the collective folklore?
>
> - Bob
>
>
I attended at 10 day one-on-one workshop by Dolly Naranjo of the Santa Clara Pueblo at her Santa Fe home studio in May of 2000. The Naranjo family is one of the most well known and revered among the Native American artists and has been for many generations. Among her stones for burnishing was one handed down to her from her grandmother. One of the many things I learned from her was that Native American potters used whatever worked in order to make and fire their pottery. What worked for one may not work for the other.
Hal Giddens
Home Grown Pottery
Rockledge, Georgia USA
kenhal@bellsouth.net
Snail Scott on wed 28 apr 04
At 09:06 PM 4/27/04 -0500, Bob wrote:
>> So, my question is - do you really know of instances of burnishing
>> stones being passed down over the years, and continuing to be useable?
>> Or could this be something that has entered the collective folklore?
>
>then Vince wrote:
>Jeese, why in the world would you even dispute something like this? I have
>heard of it in so many different sources, and there is no reason at all that
>Native Americans would decieve anyone about this...
>You say you saw Native Americans handling their burnishing stones
>carelessly? Sorry, Bob, but there is not much chance of that.
I feel obliged to point out that Bob's original
question was a valid one. If commonly repeated
truisms are inconsistent with one's personal
experience, publicly questioning the validity of
those truisms is entirely appropriate. That's
how we weed out superstition from fact.
So, Vince has seen burnishing stones handled with
care by Native Americans (or just heard multiple
stories about such handling? - that wasn't clear
in the post). And Bob has seen careless handling
of stones. Seems possible that stones might be
handled differently by different people...
I've known a lot of Indian potters (almost none
that called themselves Native American, though)
and they are all (guess what?)... individuals!
Some learned pottery from Mom or Grandma or a
neighbor on the reservation, and they stick to
those methods. Some learned that way, but make
their own changes as they see fit. Some grew up
in the suburbs and learned pottery in a college
ceramics class. Some read books about it or are
entirely self-taught. Some of them read Clayart!
Saying "Native Americans do this" or "Native
Americans do that" is as rigid and absurd as
saying that any other group of people is locked
into one stereotypical style. If what was meant
is "A common traditional approach among many
Native American potters is..." then perhaps we
can take the statement as it was (possibly)
intended, but any extremely broad statement is
surely a legitimate subject for critical
evaluation.
The thoughtful questioning of received knowledge
should never be discouraged.
(And that's my broad statement of the week.)
-Snail Scott
Reno, Nevada, USA
Hal Giddens on thu 29 apr 04
>
> From: Snail Scott
> Date: 2004/04/29 Thu AM 12:58:12 EDT
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Different Burnishing tools for different clays?
> I've known a lot of Indian potters (almost none
> that called themselves Native American, though)
> and they are all (guess what?)... individuals!
>
>
> Saying "Native Americans do this" or "Native
> Americans do that" is as rigid and absurd as
> saying that any other group of people is locked
> into one stereotypical style. If what was meant
> is "A common traditional approach among many
> Native American potters is..." then perhaps we
> can take the statement as it was (possibly)
> intended, but any extremely broad statement is
> surely a legitimate subject for critical
> evaluation.
>
> The thoughtful questioning of received knowledge
> should never be discouraged.
>
> (And that's my broad statement of the week.)
>
> -Snail Scott
> Reno, Nevada, USA
>
>
I have a couple of points I want to add to this.
- I subscribe to a magazine called "Native American Peoples", not "Indian
Peoples".
- I have known Native Americans who refer to other Native Americans as Native
Americans and some who refer to others as "Indians".
- I use the term Native Americans as a sign of respect. For me personally,
saying Indian is similar to referring to black Americans with the "N" word.
It might be okay for blacks to use the "N" word when referring to other
blacks but not for non-blacks.
- Native American people and their arts and how they make them are just as
diverse as any other types of people.
- Some fire using traditional methods, others use electric and gas kilns.
- Some use dung to blacken their pots while others use newspaper.
- Some Native Americans make traditional art while others make contemporary art.
- Some Native American believe in the traditional ways and religions while
others are Christians and are harassed for that, just as Christians
everywhere are sometimes harassed and put down for their beliefs.
- One Native American lady I know makes traditional pottery, listens to Roger
Miller and Hank Williams music, drives a Jag and has a husband who is a
classical pianist.
I also have one question.
Why is Native American art treated as a separate kind of art and not part of the norm? By norm I mean gas fired, electric fired, wood fired, raku , pit fired and so on and so forth.
Peace, Love and Happiness
Hal Giddens
Home Grown Pottery
Rockledge, Georgia USA
kenhal@bellsouth.net
Princess Young on thu 29 apr 04
Why do people feel the need to be so politically correct, why can't we just
all get along, people are people i.e., TEXANS, BUCKEYES, and the like. We 're
all just people and why on earth we have to differentiate between how the
western native people vs the English Yankees do something is beyond me. Get a
grip, get a life and get on with it. This kind of stuff is what causes the term
racist, insensitive people, etc.
People who do pottery are potters, artists, creators of objects made from
dirt. We all come from dirt, we'll all go back to the dirt. Why label anyone?
Just my kiln venting for the day
Hal Giddens on thu 29 apr 04
>
> From: Princess Young
> Date: 2004/04/29 Thu PM 02:26:37 EDT
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Different Burnishing tools for different clays?
>
> Why do people feel the need to be so politically correct, why can't we just
> all get along, people are people i.e., TEXANS, BUCKEYES, and the like.
I'm sorry I came across as politically correct. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not that way and I hate how politically correct this country has become, however I am respectful of others. I was simply responding to the earlier e-mail where the person stated that all Indians they knew used the term Indian and not Native American and my experience has been different. I didn't say their experience was wrong just different from mine.
> We 're all just people and why on earth we have to differentiate between how the
> western native people vs the English Yankees do something is beyond me. Get a
> grip, get a life and get on with it. This kind of stuff is what causes the term
> racist, insensitive people, etc.
In my e-mail I tried to point out that Native Americans are as diverse as any other people or culture. Personally I don't differentiate Native American art from other art and that is the reason I asked why others do? When it comes to pottery I love all kinds and try to learn as much as I can from each pot I see. I have many pots made from Native American potters as well as some by the Gordys, Meaders and Bermans and I treasure all of them and the stories they tell.
>
> People who do pottery are potters, artists, creators of objects made from
> dirt. We all come from dirt, we'll all go back to the dirt. Why label
anyone?
I agree, but unfortunately in the real world labels are a fact of life. I am labelled a computer geek because I'm a computer programmer. I am not a computer geek, but a person who happens to work in the computer field in order to make a living. If I do have to have a label I hope that one day It would be "potter" but for now i'm still in potty training and trying to get better at it all the time.
I don't understand why there are so many subjects that cause others to get so upset. My e-mail was not done in anger and neither is this one. Life is too short to spend it being mad. Why can't there be discussion without name calling or pointing out how wrong someone is. Why can't people be allowed to express their opinions even if they are different. I just read where some college kid wrote that Pat Tillman was a Rambo and not a hero. As much as I disagree with that person it is a free country and he has the right to say that.
Maybe I should just go back to lurking and let all the experts be the only ones that tell everyone how it is.
Hal Giddens
Home Grown Pottery
Rockledge, Georgia USA
kenhal@bellsouth.net
wayneinkeywest on thu 29 apr 04
Hal:
Absolutely DO NOT "go back to lurking, and letting the experts
(whomever the heck THEY are) be the only ones to keep telling
everyone how it is." (I think the experts are first cousins once
removed from the "Clay Gods", and second cousins to the Glaze Gurus,
who are actually quite personable, and do indeed live on this
planet....but I could be wrong. :>)
And I quote:
"If I do have a label I hope that one day it would be "potter" but
for now I'm still in potty training and trying to get better at it
all the time."
I about fell out of my chair laughing. I know I dislodged the cat,
and she is NOT amused...always a good sign! Keep it up!
Best regards,
Wayne Seidl
Key West, Florida, USA
North America, Terra
Latitude 81.8, Longitude 24.4
Elevation 3.1 feet (1m)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal Giddens"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: Different Burnishing tools for different clays?
> >
> > From: Princess Young
> > Date: 2004/04/29 Thu PM 02:26:37 EDT
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
snipped for brevity, not levity!
Bob Nicholson on fri 30 apr 04
At 9:06 PM -0500 4/27/04, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> > So, my question is - do you really know of instances of burnishing
>> stones being passed down over the years, and continuing to be useable?
>> Or could this be something that has entered the collective folklore?
>
>Bob -
>Jeese, why in the world would you even dispute something like this? I have
>heard of it in so many different sources, and there is no reason at all that
>Native Americans would decieve anyone about this. As I said before,
>traditionally, polished rocks were a rare and valuable thing. So OF COURSE
>they would take very good care of them, and OF COURSE they would pass them
>down through generations of potters. And a good hard polished stone just
>gets shinier as a result of burnishing.
To quote my earlier post, exactly "I still question (not dispute, just
question) the likelihood of stones being passed down for generations. "
Why would I question? Because I was curious about the truth, and
asking questions is a good way to find out. Apparently, that's not the
way it's done in academic circles - if you hear it from a lot of sources,
it's obviously true.
>You say you saw Native Americans handling their burnishing stones
>carelessly? Sorry, Bob, but there is not much chance of that. A good
>burnishing stone is a rare and wonderful thing, whether it has been handed
>down through generations, or purchased this morning at the Nature Company in
>the local mall. Anyone who burnishes seriously treasures their stones.
So, Vince, are you saying that I am lying, or simply that I did not understand
what I was seeing when pueblo potters casually tossed polishing stones
together in a box???
From my own experience, I have been burnishing for years, and I regard
polishing stone as simple tools - nothing more. And frankly, I don't
believe working potters of any culture or tradition are much different,
no matter how much you would like to idealize them.
- Bob Nicholson
Bob Nicholson on mon 3 may 04
At 10:24 PM -0500 5/2/04, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>Bob -
>I'm not sure there is much point in carrying this on, because I find your
>attitude inflexible, arrogant, and disrespectful. You aren't interested in
>finding the truth, just in promoting your own version.
Actually, that's not true. I raised a question because the general statements
that were being made did not correspond to my own experience. Others on
the list responded with specific information and personal experience. Their
responses were interesting and helpful, and indeed changed my opinion.
You, however, responded by saying I shouldn't question this because
everybody knew it was so. Further, my own observations couldn't
possibly be right... apparently because they don't agree with your own
beliefs.
From the way you chose to respond to my question (versus the response
from others), it looks to me like you are the one who is inflexible and
arrogant.
- Bob
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