pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 1 may 04
Hi Kathy,
I understand, overall...pretty much...the exhasperations of
these things.
I have had my vexations on them, or in them, or with them,
or for them, or from them,
or with something anyway.
I was just now thinking...something old Jos. Cambell
said...he recommended... 'Follow your Bliss'...
Now, I know he was right, and I can say I have done that
sometimes too. Then too sometimes, I have beliefs or
opinions
as are rooted in another domain...an emotional domain I
supppose, aand as that itself may guide the intellectual
domains I suppose...and they do not have much to do with
bliss, even
if they have other satisfactions of their own to offer.
That I may not do that, (honor Bliss) has it's results and
complicating
distractions as then become my involvement.
I can create misery about as well as anyone else can, maybe
better even in some ways, with more compelling
justifications and 'reason', and, as I can do with an
intensity,
focus
and drive which others generally tend to lack.
So...I have been lost-in-the-world many times...sometimes
not, too...
Some belowandamid,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathy Forer"
> Hi Phil, Some excellent questions and thank you for a
careful reading
> of my excess verbiage.
>
> I shall reply below, amid...
>
> > How to allow a wide enough audience to see and find out
> > about your Work, for potentially interested parties to
> > become numerous enough to support it?
>
> That's a tough one. Ideally the answer would be that
someone else would
> do it for me. Alternatively, I can continue to make a fool
of myself
> here and elsewhere on line and perhaps get a reputation,
perhaps
> notoriety, definitely something that will affect the
appearance more
> than the actual, spreading thin the work itself. Or,
concentrate it, if
> I could manage to get the computer to work for my work, as
I work for
> it.
Well Kathy, it is clear you are very talanted and patient in
your Work, and very imaginative, sensitive, and able.
How the same or similar abilities and their satisfactions
may be enjoyed in such (differing in some way of ) Work as
may in some way be more popularly recieved, popularly
desired, or more accessible for interested others...is to be
wondered on...
The 'where' you meet 'them' is where the action and or
energy for the 'meeting'...is to be.
> Also see:
> > On Feb 18, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Helen Bates wrote:
> >
> >> "Art and the Internet" by Dana Altman
> >> artphoto - contemporary art magazine
> >>
>
> > What kinds of 'prices' have you in mind for them, or, as
> > they may feel to be encouraged by?
>
> If I make five pieces a month and have x expenses, then
each piece
> should be x/5.
> Though that sounds suspiciously like "time is money." So I
propose
> another system:
> A - give it away
> B - dirt cheap
> C - for friends and family if I had the sort of
friends and
> family that bought art (or maybe I would if I priced it
that way...)
> D - solid investment
> E - outrageous
> F - NFS
Too, what is maybe sad in some ways, is...being good at
something, and enjoying the process of doing that something
with Love and fidelity and presence...and then, one may be
rewarded with punishments, when, one has-to-be-doing-it,
so-many-times a-week, or a-month, to observe ethical
responsibilities to one's customers, or, to one's conscience
in that way, or, to one's creditors, or, to both or all
three...and then, sometimes, the joy can be displaced
somewhat...forstalled...if not more, than somewhat.
This can be the challange of any 'marriage' I think...the
fine lines of oblige, and the kinds of oblige they are...and
how they defer, and, to what...
...sigh...
> > What are the concerns as for shipping your Work to
distant
> > buyers? And, maybe, how would that add to the cost for
them,
> > and or, the additional efforts for you?
>
> I've been looking at proper gallery crates lately. Whooo,
there's a lot
> of work that goes into them. Possibly as much as your
hand-crafted
> boxes, though production.
No, no where near as much as that...but...
But send me some specs on what these 'Gallery Boxes' have to
do or have as attributes, and let me muse on it.
I used to make them...made to be reused over and
over..light, sturdy, strong...good looking...blah blah
blah...and, maybe I should think of doing that in a bigger
way, as I might enjoy it, and, maybe folks could use
them...and...what-the-hell...
packing/
> packing01.htm>
>
> I've been reluctant to enter far-flung exhibits for that
very reason,
> though the smaller work is certainly easy to handle.
Lighter is good
> too, it just doesn't have to be 49/98 of an inch thick,
even on an
> analog micrometer.
Is that like say, a half-inch or something then?
Too, what of Carving your things out of Soapstone say, or
Native Chalk, or some special Plaster or something beside
'Clay'...?
That might also be a 'draw' for people's imaginations...the
material these are carved out of...and...might save some
weight too...maybe not much, but 'some'...
> > What departures or progressions or spin-offs of your
work
> > would still satisfy you Artistically, ethically and
> > otherwise, as you have not done, or not focused on, but
> > could do, as could allow additional choices in your
> > offerings? And, maybe, as would make easier, any of the
> > above?
>
> I would like to cast some of my work in bronze,
Why not 'Plaster', with it's pure-pure-whiteness, or, as may
be tinted as one likes...?
Or some special 'Mideval' formulae of 'Plaster' as might
interest the inmagination of those wishing to have some
additional dimension of 'draw'...to be drawn...
I know, as for me, it has been difficult to find things as
people may want, as I should want TO do.
Where those two meet...has been hard to find.
Or, people like and admire what I do, and, they do not want
it or have any use for it...
Oh well...
>mainly to
make it more
> accessible in price and was very disappointed to find out
that the
> Johnson Atelier is no longer casting bronze. Though there
are many
> other fine, even finer places, Johnson was convenient. But
a chapter
> closed with my recent gallery show and at this point, I'd
prefer to
> move on with new work, and make as much of it as I can.
Bronze is relatively 'easy' to Cast...which is most of 'why'
it is so beloved, as well it's color and aging...
Iron now, especially as to fill out a finely detailed
mould...not too many boys and girls seem to do
now-a-days...nor will they.
> My desk is filled with pounds of paper, ideas and
departures.
Mine too...and 'bills' for that matter...cluttered with them
as well...and porquipine ashtrays and parts for things and
odd Tools and officesupplies...the odd Mouse, rustleing
papers...and...
> In the
> lovely isolation of this clay pit creek, I am finally
unearthing and
> responding to them. I'm not quite a ceramic sculptor and
not entirely a
> modren fine art sculptor, I have to find my way somewhere,
and getting
> on top of or ahead of my time is the way.
Yes...
> My mother always wanted me to make multiples of my work
and I resisted.
> Mostly snobbery, but also reflection from a stint as a
mold and model
> maker (mainly tool and die) working in polyester resin and
epoxy.
> Thousands of "fine art replica" 1988 AT&T 'Olympic'
collectible
> telephones made in a filthy, smelly, under-ventilated
Brooklyn factory
> with hundreds of non-masked Guyanese workers stooped over
grinding
> resin and patching holes. Really took the romance out of
it.
Yes...
Most 'businesses', if seen and understood, are found to take
the Life-outta-Work, or the romance out of it...or to take
Work out of Life as well.
This is not hard to fathom, as, that IS their intention, and
they fulfill it effeciently, and reliably. They are a
defence against 'Romance' and 'Life'...even as 'death' is.
Overall in our time, 'business' is 'death'...
> Unlike a
> printing press, which is a lovely thing to behold, mass
production of
> sculpture is wickedly harmful, dirty and ugly. Plaster and
ceramic
> production are considerably more appealing. Metal even
nicer.
Makes sense...
> Some of the work would have lent itself to series of
multiples, but,
> well, no one ever bit and I didn't do it myself, for
reasons above, for
> also not wanting to "get stuck."
One sometimes finds one's self on something of a ledge...I
have, or, it felt like that anyway...
Difficult to climb from up 'there', and, a long way 'down'
if one 'slips'...
I guess...ye gotta have 'Wings'...
> I haven't done printmaking in a while. I'd also like to
experiment with
> larger, lighter work, maybe outdoors, probably plaster
over metal or
> bamboo. Also fast work, a string of work instead of a
circle of one.
> Nothing earthshaking, "work small, work smart," it's soon
time to turn
> off the computer and see the day.
Hmmmm!
> > Phil
> > (been there, doing that...still there, doing that...and
> > maybe not very well, either...)
>
> Bye there, Bison Studios! Keep making those sharp-eyed
beechnut and
> cherry handled trimming tools. Using them tempted me to
get a wheel.
>
> Kathy
You just might enjoy having a Wheel..!
Or a respite...?
Best wishes...
Yer pal,
Phil
el v
Kathy Forer on mon 3 may 04
Hi Phil,
Yes, "Follow your bliss"....
> Now, I know he was right, and I can say I have done that
> sometimes too. Then too sometimes, I have beliefs or
> opinions as are rooted in another domain...an emotional domain I
> supppose, aand as that itself may guide the intellectual
> domains I suppose...and they do not have much to do with
> bliss, even if they have other satisfactions of their own to offer.
It's when we (blindly) adhere to systems of belief that aren't our own,
that trouble brews. Our own notions and opinions are made subservient
and seem to be insignificant, hence difficulty arises acting either
spontaneously or from deep inner conviction.
> That I may not do that, (honor Bliss) has it's results and
> complicating distractions as then become my involvement.
Too many truths can become confusing, even corrupt and conflicting, if
not resolved in action.
> I can create misery about as well as anyone else can, maybe
> better even in some ways, with more compelling
> justifications and 'reason', and, as I can do with an
> intensity, focus and drive which others generally tend to lack.
>
> So...I have been lost-in-the-world many times...sometimes
> not, too...
My favorite story, perhaps apocryphal, or not (I need to find the
original), a friend used to tell was how Picasso made his artist and
model series of prints. Picasso locked himself in the studio with (or
without) his model and went through the transformation. Food and water
was left at his door (like at some artist's colonies) on a tray and he
wasn't disturbed the whole time. The point of (forgive my poorly
retelling) the story was what the process would take him the artist
through an how he would emerge only when it was complete.
If we don't have that uninterrupted luxury, it's more difficult to
retain "intensity, focus and drive." A studio environment needs great
structure to allow comings and goings with neither rigidity nor lack of
focus.
> Well Kathy, it is clear you are very talanted and patient in
> your Work, and very imaginative, sensitive, and able.
>
>
> How the same or similar abilities and their satisfactions
> may be enjoyed in such (differing in some way of ) Work as
> may in some way be more popularly recieved, popularly
> desired, or more accessible for interested others...is to be
> wondered on...
Thanks, Phil. I tend to think the ability to make one's way is so much
more subjective than objective. Just as Janice described how one red
dot in a show can sometimes promote a 'run' on an exhibited works, so
too can the work have invisible "NFS" signs, not just high prices
either. Maybe it's the artist herself. Damn.
...You sure had good "for sale" signs on your works!
> The 'where' you meet 'them' is where the action and or
> energy for the 'meeting'...is to be.
I'm of the optimistic strain that says "if you build it, they will
come." Problem is the building is an isolating obsession which doesn't
always help with the currency of the work. So, it helps to have a show,
even if nothing sells, as you do get "out there" and it forces or
encourages you to come to terms with letting the work go, letting it
run, letting it play, etc.
Letting it play with the other kids is a fun part, though it can be
most challenging.
> Too, what is maybe sad in some ways, is...being good at
> something, and enjoying the process of doing that something
> with Love and fidelity and presence...and then, one may be
> rewarded with punishments, when, one has-to-be-doing-it,
> so-many-times a-week, or a-month, to observe ethical
> responsibilities to one's customers, or, to one's conscience
> in that way, or, to one's creditors, or, to both or all
> three...and then, sometimes, the joy can be displaced
> somewhat...forstalled...if not more, than somewhat.
It sounds like you're talking of the transition of hand-crafted work to
production. All I know about that is from growing up in a greeting card
company. My dad made the first year's cards on a silkscreen press. My
mom sold them to stores. They did pretty well that first year, well
enough to invest in a small letterpress the next. And on and on each
year, with a goodly number of back-steps as well, until it was 100
employees at peak season. My point here is that as production grows and
though it becomes a business, the creative input can and must remain
very high.
> This can be the challange of any 'marriage' I think...the
> fine lines of oblige, and the kinds of oblige they are...and
> how they defer, and, to what...
>
> ...sigh...
Authority, but also play.
> No, no where near as much as that...but...
>
>
> But send me some specs on what these 'Gallery Boxes' have to
> do or have as attributes, and let me muse on it.
aid=1683&wid=423837848&page=5>
> I used to make them...made to be reused over and
> over..light, sturdy, strong...good looking...blah blah
> blah...and, maybe I should think of doing that in a bigger
> way, as I might enjoy it, and, maybe folks could use
> them...and...what-the-hell...
But you'd soon be back in the choice of doing something new while it's
still fresh and unknown or developing it into a business or
going-concern.
> > packing01.htm>
>>
>> I've been reluctant to enter far-flung exhibits for that very reason,
>> though the smaller work is certainly easy to handle. Lighter is good
>> too, it just doesn't have to be 49/98 of an inch thick,
>> even on an analog micrometer.
>
> Is that like say, a half-inch or something then?
Something ;)
I have no patience with a rule that is too easily broken. Though, yes
it has its merits.
> Too, what of Carving your things out of Soapstone say, or
> Native Chalk, or some special Plaster or something beside
> 'Clay'...?
I've carved wood, stone and plaster and very much enjoyed them. Soap
too. But while my over-worked pieces look carved, I am very much a
modeler, I just have to get back to it, fast and fresh.
> That might also be a 'draw' for people's imaginations...the
> material these are carved out of...and...might save some
> weight too...maybe not much, but 'some'...
People do treasure special materials.
>>> What departures or progressions or spin-offs of your work
>>> would still satisfy you Artistically, ethically and
>>> otherwise, as you have not done, or not focused on, but
>>> could do, as could allow additional choices in your
>>> offerings? And, maybe, as would make easier, any of the
>>> above?
>>
>> I would like to cast some of my work in bronze,
>
>
> Why not 'Plaster', with it's pure-pure-whiteness, or, as may
> be tinted as one likes...?
What a simple, great idea. I'd already had a rubber mold for one, and
exhibited a plaster. No reason not to make more. Duh. Warhol plasters.
> Or some special 'Mideval' formulae of 'Plaster' as might
> interest the inmagination of those wishing to have some
> additional dimension of 'draw'...to be drawn...
It's nice to work on and into an existing a surface, like a canvas.
> I know, as for me, it has been difficult to find things as
> people may want, as I should want TO do.
>
>
> Where those two meet...has been hard to find.
>
>
> Or, people like and admire what I do, and, they do not want
> it or have any use for it...
Somewhere the two do meet. It's not just luck (or some would say
prayer, I won't argue) but allowing luck into your life. Accepting it.
Going with it. Taking that chance. Making that web site, even if it
means relying on friends or business associates to do much of the work.
Saying "yes."
> Bronze is relatively 'easy' to Cast...which is most of 'why'
> it is so beloved, as well it's color and aging...
We used to have a neighborhood sculpture center where we could
investment cast bronze. Most entertaining and satisfying, though hard
and dirty work. The chemical patinas remind me a lot of glaze recipes.
> Iron now, especially as to fill out a finely detailed
> mould...not too many boys and girls seem to do
> now-a-days...nor will they.
For a while I was casting some things in pewter at a local studio. Nice
process. It uses silicon or black tuffy rubber molds (?) and it pours
like wax but into ordinary cased molds, though centrifugal spin cast is
better. http://www.tekcast.com/mold2.htm
I've got to get over my fear of fire and molten things (except hot wax).
> Yes...
>
> Most 'businesses', if seen and understood, are found to take
> the Life-outta-Work, or the romance out of it...or to take
> Work out of Life as well.
>
> This is not hard to fathom, as, that IS their intention, and
> they fulfill it effeciently, and reliably. They are a
> defence against 'Romance' and 'Life'...even as 'death' is.
> Overall in our time, 'business' is 'death'...
Not necessarily. Just keep it small enough to be your own.
What my dance teacher used to say: "work small, work smart."
It is possible, though not easy and not always fun.
There are a lot of other options I hadn't considered, but they all
depend on production. I say business can be fun and creative, because
that's what I witnessed as part of a small company, but I never wanted
to have my own business. It was all rationalization and fear though,
nothing more. Whenever we put our wares out there, whatever they may
be, we engage in commerce. And to make commerce a regular transaction,
we need to set up store, or a method of distribution or venues of
presentation. Even if it's mail art or environmental art, it has to be
stamped or built, and mostly, seen.
We might as well say that overall life results in death.
> One sometimes finds one's self on something of a ledge...I
> have, or, it felt like that anyway...
>
> Difficult to climb from up 'there', and, a long way 'down'
> if one 'slips'...
>
> I guess...ye gotta have 'Wings'...
Or horse-blinders. Distractions create static and raise dust -- get us
off a fence or ledge, will also put us there.
> You just might enjoy having a Wheel..!
>
> Or a respite...?
A respite would be nice too, some day. Though there are all sorts of
stolen moments that seem like respites, they don't fully add up to a
change or a renewing rest.
A wheel! But first a kiln. It can't be so difficult or scary. A lot
like an oven, right? (Yea, right, I remember that time... )
In the mean time, I'm going for 100 landscapes, people, still lifes or
animals. Two hours on the outside. A lot like an email.
Kathy
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