Antoinette Badenhorst on thu 3 jun 04
Anyone interested in beautiful crystalline should visit this website.
http://www.krceramics.com/e_artist.htm. I am becoming more and more
interested in this glazing method, but I think this is not meant for
sissies. Am I right?
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS
38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
william schran on fri 4 jun 04
Antoinette wrote:>Anyone interested in beautiful crystalline should
visit this website.
http://www.krceramics.com/e_artist.htm. I am becoming more and more
interested in this glazing method, but I think this is not meant for
sissies. Am I right?<
Having worked with crystalline glazes for the past few years and
finally getting good results at cone 6, I will admit there is more
planning and preparation of the pots, application of the glaze and
firing of the kiln than with "normal" pottery. But there is also lots
more information now than in the past when I first tried tackling
this process back at grad school in the 1970's.
It's meant for anybody who is willing to put the time and effort and
not expecting instant gratification.
Bill
Ellie Blair on sat 5 jun 04
----- Original Message -----=20
From: william schran=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Incredible beautiful crystalline vases
Antoinette wrote:>Anyone interested in beautiful crystalline should
visit this website.
http://www.krceramics.com/e_artist.htm. I am becoming more and more
interested in this glazing method, but I think this is not meant for
sissies. Am I right?<
You are right about that. If you have the desire to learn crystal =
glazes you will do just fine. I think the beauty of the glaze is the =
addiction to this method. William is right about the amount of prep =
time but most of us think it is worth the effort. The best thing you =
can do is research as much as possible and the clayart archives is a =
great place to start. Fara Shimbo also has a crystalline message forum =
that is full of information and good tips. www.crystalline/info/bbs.com. =
If this isn't the right link someone will let us know. It is great to =
have new people interested in this avenue of ceramics. =20
Good Luck
Ellie Blair
Jocelyn McAuley on sat 5 jun 04
yup...
http://crystalline-ceramics.info/bbs/index.cgi
kruzewski on sat 5 jun 04
"Fara Shimbo also has a crystalline message forum that is full of
information and good tips. www.crystalline/info/bbs.com. If this isn't the
right link someone will let us know. It is great to have new people
interested in this avenue of ceramics.
Good Luck
Ellie Blair"
I too have just started working with Crystal glazes - well, it isn't just
the glaze, it, for me, is a whole new way of working. It does involve a lot
of preparation and a lot of learning, but opening a kiln to see a sea of
crystals is the most fantastic thing.
Ever since I saw and bought my first crystal glazed bowl by Simon Rich,
Wales, I wanted to make them myself. It took some time to work up the skills
to be able to throw decent porcelain forms and what really pushed me into
actually doing it was Fara Shimbo's fantastic website
http://crystalline-ceramics.info/ and buying her brilliant book. The website
will tell you all you need to know to start on this wonderful, if sometimes
frustrating, journey.
I've got to say that I was helped enormously by my good friend, and fellow
clayarter (that's how we met) Avril Farley. She gave me my "starter" recipe
and has provided much inspiration and encouragement. And those of you who
have the latest edition of Hamer and Hamer, Avril's crystals are in there.
Unashamed plug!
Ellie, I just checked, and the link for the crystalline message forum is
http://crystalline-ceramics.info/bbs/index.cgi and actually there are some
very interesting posts that I'm going to read right now!
Jacqui
North Wales
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 7 jun 04
Dear Friends,
I had a look. Yes, some very varied crystal patterns.
Would anyone who has had a look like to say something about the forms
on which these glazes are used? What have you budding Critics got to
say about this collection?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Potters Council Member
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 8 jun 04
Dear Ivor, I am in the process of learning to understand more about
crystalline glazes. I've also looked again at John Tilton's wonderful
work. (http://www.tiltonpottery.com/guestbook/guestbook.html) It seems
as if the glazing process is limited to strong fluent forms. There are 2
things that I've observed with some of the crystalline ware of some
potters that I've seen before and that I do not like. One is that color
and crystals is often times totally overshadowing the shape. In many
instances I've observed that the shape almost looks "under developed"(if
there is such a term). Another one is that the pieces that I've picked
up this far was very heavy. My first question to the crystalline forum
(http://crystalline-ceramics.info/bbs/index.cgi) was concerning exactly
those two things. Some believe that there is better development of the
glazes with thicker pieces, since it holds the heat better.
I think this guy's glazes are incredible, but I would like to see some
of the forms more fully developed. I would also like to see the basis
flowing more with the rest of the pot. It is easy for me to say that
right now, but since I've learned in the meantime about the importance
of preparing those same bases for the firing process, it seems to me
that this potter must have lost many pots before and are making sure
that his basis is strong enough now to be able to handle the "after
firing process"
In his gallery 6 I found about 3 pots that are better shaped than the
others.
(Ivor....just see what you've done....you've put my head on the chopping
block....again!)
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS
38866
662 869 1651
www.clayandcanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ivor and
Olive Lewis
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:46 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Incredible beautiful crystalline vases
Dear Friends,
I had a look. Yes, some very varied crystal patterns.
Would anyone who has had a look like to say something about the forms
on which these glazes are used? What have you budding Critics got to
say about this collection?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Potters Council Member
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 9 jun 04
Dear Antoinette,
Thank you for responding to this one.
I can understand throwing a piece with thicker walls so that the mass
of clay acts as a buffer against slight fluctuations in kiln
temperature that might interrupt the progress of crystal growth. But I
agree with you, some of the forms in the Korean display (I speak of no
other work) could have been given more thought before being taken from
the wheel. It seems incongruous to have such control over the
development of the Zinc Silicate crystals yet appear so inept in
control over the clay.
I wonder if anyone else will comment?
I am sure someone has already said that a beautiful glaze will never
rescue a poorly formed pot.
Good to hear you are having a go at this challenge. So am I.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis
.
william schran on wed 9 jun 04
Bruce wrote:>Well, Ivor, you're certainly not afraid to take a
cricket bat to the
hornet's nest, are you? I, too, found many of the forms to be rather...
frumpy (see Gallery 1 http://www.krceramics.com/e_gallery_01.htm, bottom
row, center photo for example ). However, I said nothing about it because I
tend to throw "tight" forms and knew that, because my artistic expression
has been unable to progress beyond this infantile stage of merely making a
well-formed object, I am unable to appreciate the aesthetics of frumpiness.<
When you write of "frumpiness" are you directing the comment to the
shapes that are somewhat flattened round shapes? These shapes do
evoke a visual weightiness given they are as wide or wider than they
are tall. The addition of the tall foot/pedestal also lends a feeling
of heaviness, seeming to attach itself to the table surface.
If we take the profile of a pot and draw a box around the pot
(imagine a box that the pot would just fit into), we can better
visualize the negative space around the shape and provide a "frame"
of reference to better see the proportions of the form.
A squattish round form will have a lot more visual weight than a form
that widens up towards its shoulder or that is taller then wide.
Well, that's my two cents, Bill
Bruce Girrell on wed 9 jun 04
Ivor Lewis wrote:
> Would anyone who has had a look like to say something about the forms
> on which these glazes are used? What have you budding Critics got to
> say about this collection?
Well, Ivor, you're certainly not afraid to take a cricket bat to the
hornet's nest, are you? I, too, found many of the forms to be rather...
frumpy (see Gallery 1 http://www.krceramics.com/e_gallery_01.htm, bottom
row, center photo for example ). However, I said nothing about it because I
tend to throw "tight" forms and knew that, because my artistic expression
has been unable to progress beyond this infantile stage of merely making a
well-formed object, I am unable to appreciate the aesthetics of frumpiness.
Perhaps you, too, are afflicted by this same problem. Some of us are simply
unable to progress to the point that we can finally see that balance,
proportion, intention, and basic craftsmanship are not requirements of art.
Keep trying. One day you may free yourself from this self-imposed prison.
Then you will be able to paint distorted human faces on lumpy bits of clay,
get it published in a slick magazine, and people will realize that you are a
Real Artist.
Bruce "just a _little_ cynical today" Girrell
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 10 jun 04
Dear Bruce,
I think you sell me short on this one
Perhaps if I persist in doing what you say I may attain the prefix
"Sur" . But I prefer to remain a simple "artist" and avoid the "Real"
part.
All the same, thank you for pointing out the shortcomings. Sort of
"Grace and Favour". Though we may favour them for their crystalline
attributes they lack a certain Grace.
Best regards,
Ivor
kruzewski on thu 10 jun 04
Dear Antoinette,
I had a look at this site. While I liked the rounded forms I wasn't keen on
those "blobby" forms.
I find your comment about heavy pots and the idea that they might hold the
heat better interesting. Currently I use my bottles as trials for crystal
glazes. One thing they are not is heavy. But one was so thin at the foot
(over enthusiastic turning - big fault!) that as I tapped the catcher off I
broke the pot. I hadn't cracked the pot with the heat gun I was using, I
just broke it because it was so thin - yet the crystals on it were lovely
and crystal development had not been impeded by thinness . I've also handled
Avril Farley's crystal bowls and seen my hand through them as they caught
the light.
Of course a picture can not tell the weight of a pot, and some of those
unresolved forms could be as light as a feather, but it is a conundrum that
I face with my crystal pots, trying not to make a typical "crystal" shape,
trying to be slightly original. Because there is something about crystals
that tempts one to make certain shapes. Also there is the suggestion that
the crystal glazed pot should be unadorned BUT for the crystal glaze - but I
have found that in my opinion some carving or certain sprigging can greatly
compliment and be complemented by crystal glazes.
At the moment though I'm just so happy to be able to get crystals that,
although I wouldn't say that form is unimportant, I haven't spent as much
time thinking about it as perhaps I might in future.
Jacqui
North Wales
. Some believe that there is better development of the
> glazes with thicker pieces, since it holds the heat better.
> I think this guy's glazes are incredible, but I would like to see some
> of the forms more fully developed. I would also like to see the basis
> flowing more with the rest of the pot.
Fara Shimbo on thu 10 jun 04
Dear Ivor,
In response to: "I wonder if anyone else will comment?
I am sure someone has already said that a beautiful glaze will never
rescue a poorly formed pot."
Hear, hear!
One of the most common detractions of crystalline glazes
that I hear is that crystalline glazing "is just cheating"
and "isn't real ceramics" because "all you have to do is
put a crystalline glaze on a piece and it's automatically
pretty."
No, it isn't! I explain it to folks in terms of positive and
negative numbers. You can put a lousy glaze (-glaze) on a
gorgeous form (+form) and you automatically get a lousy
pot because if you multiply a positive and a negative number
you always get a negative. The same is true the other way
around (and I've made several pieces that prove it, alas).
+glaze x -form = -piece. Always. (Of course, one could
then say, what about -form x -glaze? then you get Art that
gets put on the cover of--- no, let's not go there...)
Actually the best (?) condemnation of crystalline glazing
I ever heard came to me via Ilene Mahler who was told,
"I don't like crystalline, it reminds me of the '60s."
Ah, the 60s, where are they now...
Fa
--
=============================================================
Fara Shimbo, Master Crystalliere, Certified Public Nuisance
-------------------------------------------------------------
Shimbo Pottery, PO Box 41, Hygiene, CO 80533 USA 720.207.5201
Crystalline-Ceramics.Info ShimboPottery.com Crystallieri.Org
Klysadel.Net TuranianHorse.Org
=============================================================
kruzewski on thu 10 jun 04
Dear Fara,
I had to laugh at the comment below. I'm just starting to gapple with
Crystalline firing and know how much I have to learn, how much work and
frustration I have ahead of me. Ha, I can think of much better ways to
cheat!
Someone once told me that porcelain and crystals are a sure way to madness.
Now that's nearer the mark I think. Of course, it's a love affair.....which
IS a kind of madness when you think about it.
Jacqui
North Wales
> One of the most common detractions of crystalline glazes
> that I hear is that crystalline glazing "is just cheating"
> and "isn't real ceramics" because "all you have to do is
> put a crystalline glaze on a piece and it's automatically
> pretty."
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 11 jun 04
Dear William Schran,
I like the idea of invoking the negative space as a means of making
judgements.
Anyone else with ideas which might be constructive.
Thanks for your contribution.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Potters Council Member
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 11 jun 04
Dear Fara Shimbo,
Than you for your contribution.
Your algebraic approach is novel, especially the projected outcome of
(-f x -g) ! ! !
I have always been impressed by people such as yourself who use
crystals with reserve,
playing with the abstract design elements of position and distribution
in a way that draws attention to the form of the pot without
detracting from the complexity of individual crystals.
The worst examples I have looked at were done in such a way as to give
a totally crystalline surface. The visual effect was to obliterate
individual shapes and reduce the effect of colour through eliminating
contrast of hue or tone in the background surface.
Thank your for your contribution.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Potters Council Member
Christy Pines on fri 11 jun 04
The glazes are beautiful. And my skill at throwing is far inferior to
what I see here. However, that said, the feet on most of the forms seem
to overwhelm the form itself. I start to see this smooth, sensuous form
that wants one to reach out and touch, and then I am jolted by a clunky
foot. They don't seem to go together very well. The bulbous ballooning
forms might work better with a more sensuous, gentler foot.
christy in connecticut
cpines at ix.netcom.com
Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
>I had a look. Yes, some very varied crystal patterns.
>Would anyone who has had a look like to say something about the forms
>on which these glazes are used? What have you budding Critics got to
>say about this collection?
>
>
Bruce Girrell on fri 11 jun 04
Ivor wrote:
> I think you sell me short on this one
Ivor, I was agreeing with you!
But very often it seems that the ability to make an eye-pleasing form has
fallen from favor in the art world. I wrote the post from the position of
someone who feels that he is unable to make ugly forms and therefore cannot
yet be considered to be an artist. The comment about the hornet's nest is
because this topic comes up repeatedly and I expected that you might stir up
another round of "loose vs. tight" or variant thereof.
Bruce "sorry" Girrell
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 12 jun 04
Dear Bruce,
No apology needed, I was well aware of what you meant and
wholeheartedly agree.
I have been well pleased with the support and the comments which have
com in so far.
Perhaps a superb glaze makes an poor form "Interesting".
Best regards,
Ivor "with a big wooden spoon" Lewis
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 12 jun 04
Dear Christy Pines,
Thank you for your contribution to this topic.
Is it the size of the footring which causes the awkward contrast or is
it the change in contour from a curved to straight line that jars your
senses? Or is it the ratios and proportions of the parts which give an
impression of clumsiness
I wonder it anyone else has an opinion on this?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Potters Council Member
Carol Tripp on sun 13 jun 04
Hi Ivor,
Those pots have the same look as a large beer belly hanging over a belted
waist - never an attractive sight, especially when there is no shirt. Icky.
The widest part of the pot has slumped down close to the base - as
happens when the potter goes on too long - and then to add to the problem,
the base is belted in and accentuated by being perpendicular and too high.
There is no grace in that foot.
Best regards,
Carol
Dubai, UAE
Where I see every day that there is something to be said for wearing more
clothing rather than less;-)
Part of what Ivor wrote:
>Is it the size of the footring which causes the awkward contrast or is
>it the change in contour from a curved to straight line that jars your
>senses? Or is it the ratios and proportions of the parts which give an
>impression of clumsiness
>I wonder it anyone else has an opinion on this?
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Christy Pines on sun 13 jun 04
I think what bothers me is the size of the footring and where it connects with the curve of the vase. I sit here with a Tom Coleman bowl, which is quite bulbous, and then there's a very distinct foot ring. At first the footring seems quite square, but as I examine it, it actually seems to mimic the shape of the bowl slightly. It's quite small, for the size of the bowl. There is a bit of an angle just above the footring, as the bowl begins to take its shape. And the footring has that same kind of angle to it, before it settles down into a straight foot that sits on the counter. The footring seems to serve to lift the bowl off the surface, whereas the forms of the vases on this site seem to be stuck onto the surface with their footring.
On those vases, the footring seems to interfer with the curvature, seems kind of like this lovely curvy shape was plopped down on a separate ring of clay.
I want to be able to see the curve of the bottom, to imagine that the curve of the shape is complete, within the footring. Tom's bowl does that, seems as though the bowl continues in its curve, and that the footring is there so that it will stand up straight and not wobble around on the kitchen counter. These vases on the other hand, seem to have had the bottom of the curve cut abruptly off. I think that's what jars.
As I look around, at my pots and those I've acquired from others, there is a distinct preference for small feet. Maybe that's because I'm 6 foot 2 inches tall and my own feet are anything but small
christy in connecticut
cpines at ix.netcom.com
Ivor wrote:
Is it the size of the footring which causes the awkward contrast or is
it the change in contour from a curved to straight line that jars your
senses? Or is it the ratios and proportions of the parts which give an
impression of clumsiness
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 14 jun 04
Dear Carol,
Thank you for your observations. Living in a country where obesity is
approaching epidemic proportions I understand your metaphor !!!
Perhaps some of those pots have a very high "Body Mass Index".
I thing there is a consensus developing that, given careful thought
and attention to detail, it is possible to design Forms which promote
appreciation of Crystalline Glazes within the restrictions imposed by
Technical Necessity.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Potters Council Member
william schran on tue 15 jun 04
Ivor wrote:>Is it the size of the footring which causes the awkward
contrast or is
it the change in contour from a curved to straight line that jars your
senses? Or is it the ratios and proportions of the parts which give an
impression of clumsiness?<
I would think it's a combination of all three.
Generally speaking ( not in every instance) a pot with a foot ring
that is significantly larger in diameter than the rim (top of the
pot) will drawn the viewers eye down due to the sense of increased
visual weight.
Any sudden change in the contour of a form will be an area that is
"different" and draw attention to itself. If the foot ring continues
the curve, or in some way relates to the curving contours, of the
pot, it will seem integrated, or more a part of the overall form.
The sense of the "pleasingness" of the ratios & proportions are at
the very least somewhat subjective. Many of us in Western cultures
have come to appreciate, through what we have been taught or exposed
to in Greek & Roman art, the proportions of the golden mean or the
golden section where, simply stated, the ratio of the width is to the
length as the length is to the whole.
I'm certain cultures from other areas of the globe have other
esthetic sensibilities that have been learned and are just as valid.
I'd like to hear from folks in non-western cultures on this subject.
Bill, in Fredericksburg, Va where we've had wonderful weather, but
now it's going to get hot - just in time to begin raku firing with my
class.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 16 jun 04
Dear William Schran,
Thanks for your comments.
Certainly the "Golden Section" had little influence on the posts which
were illustrated.
The thought that there is a degree of cultural domination is also an
interesting point.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Potters Council Member
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