Nancy Jonnum on sun 6 jun 04
I have a friend who's late husband was a sculptor. He created figures
in wood stone and clay. Before his death he made a clay model for a
work that he probably intended to make out of clay or stone. It is a
fine, delicate sculpture of a lion attacking a gazelle. My friend has kept
this object moist for over a year. I am a potter and sculptor, and I have
offered to try to fire this for her. Actually, I offered before I had seen it.
Now I'm not sure how to proceed. The animals have been
constructed over an armiture. I think the armiture is aluminum wire. It
is attached to plywood with a plumbing flange and a plastic pipe. The
lion is badly cracked. This may be due to shrinkage or just to the fact
that it has been sitting damp, in her garage for so long. The feet of the
lion and most of the gazelle are resting on the plywood and would be
very hard to separate. I don't imagine we could fire the model without
first removing the plumbing parts. Do any of you have any
suggestions about what we could do. My friend is going to ask
another friend to photograph the work before we begin, so that if we
break it trying to save it, at least she'll have the photos. Any advice
would be appreciated.
Nancy
william schran on sun 6 jun 04
Nancy wrote:> I don't imagine we could fire the model without
first removing the plumbing parts. Do any of you have any
suggestions about what we could do. My friend is going to ask
another friend to photograph the work before we begin, so that if we
break it trying to save it, at least she'll have the photos. Any advice
would be appreciated.<
Did the individual fire other models that were made for larger
sculptures? Asking because sculptors often create these smaller
models to work through proportions, etc. with no intention of firing
or saving the model. So depending how the armature was constructed,
you might find the sculpture may have to be cut into many parts to
remove metal pieces. Continue to keep the sculpture moist and start
by trying to remove the largest part of the armature.
The armature must be removed prior to firing. When I have my students
create clay sculptures on armatures that they intend to fire the clay
is allowed to slowly stiffen to a point where the sculpture can be
cut open ( for a portrait, it's cut in half), the armature removed
and excess thickness removed. The sculpture is then reassembled
(scoring & slurry), allowed to slowly completely dry, then fired.
Bill
Earl Krueger on sun 6 jun 04
Nancy,
For something as precious as this I would first
consider making a mold from it that you could
then use to reproduce the sculpture if your
other methods fail.
Perhaps others on the list might comment on
appropriate mold making techniques for something
of this nature.
Earl K...
Bothell, WA, USA
Earl Brunner on sun 6 jun 04
Please don't take this personally, you refer to yourself as a potter and a
sculptor, but some of your questions about this project would seem to
indicate that you might not have enough expertise (t least in this area) to
do the job well.
If this project was ever intended to be fired, it probably should have been
removed from the armature a long time ago. The cracking would indicate that
the clay has dried some and shrunk. If one intended to fire it, you would
need to re-hydrate it enough to remove the armature without damaging the
piece, but this would involve cutting and re-sculpting the areas that are
put back together. For the original artist, that would be no problem, but
for someone else it would start to take away from the original artists work.
To preserve the piece, the best thing would be to make a mold. Photos would
be a good idea in any case because they would aid in any restoration. If it
could be afforded, it could be taken to a foundry and caste in something
like bronze, they are really set up for this kind of work.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Nancy Jonnum
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 9:35 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: old sculpture
I have a friend who's late husband was a sculptor. He created figures
in wood stone and clay. Before his death he made a clay model for a
work that he probably intended to make out of clay or stone. It is a
fine, delicate sculpture of a lion attacking a gazelle. My friend has kept
this object moist for over a year. I am a potter and sculptor, and I have
offered to try to fire this for her. Actually, I offered before I had seen
it.
Now I'm not sure how to proceed. The animals have been
constructed over an armiture. I think the armiture is aluminum wire. It
is attached to plywood with a plumbing flange and a plastic pipe. The
lion is badly cracked. This may be due to shrinkage or just to the fact
that it has been sitting damp, in her garage for so long. The feet of the
lion and most of the gazelle are resting on the plywood and would be
very hard to separate. I don't imagine we could fire the model without
first removing the plumbing parts. Do any of you have any
suggestions about what we could do. My friend is going to ask
another friend to photograph the work before we begin, so that if we
break it trying to save it, at least she'll have the photos. Any advice
would be appreciated.
Nancy
Craig Dunn Clark on sun 6 jun 04
Nancy, the piece was not intended to be fired in it's current state on
the armature. The armature is used to give strength and support while the
piece is being worked on. Typically, once the model is complete it is either
carefully removed from the armature and re-assembled along the parting lines
or it used as a pattern from which a mold, or molds will be taken.
Number one pottery plaster may be used to make the mold. Mold making can
be complex depending on the complexity of the form that the mold is being
taken from. If you have not done any mold making before it would be a good
idea to consult with someone in your area who has mold making skill and/or
read a few books on the subject. The piece that you describe sounds like it
would be require a multi-part plaster mold which requires skill, care and
experience to make.
Do to the potentially difficult molding problems I would suggest that
you try and remove the piece from the armature, hollow it out and then
reassemble. One point of caution is that you will most probably only be able
to do this if the clay is still pliable. If it has dried toward the point of
it being to stiff it will break as you attempt to remove it from the
armature.
Do you know what type of armature was used or how it was configured? Was
it one of those flexible ones? If there are flexible shafts of the armature
running through the appendages of the bodies of the animals, for example,
you will not be able to gently pull the forms from the shafts. You will need
to cut, separate and reassemble.
If the clay has dried to much, since the piece is one of sentimental
value, you might try and re-hydrate it. This is not gauranteed to work, but
it may. Take some damp newspaper and place a one sheet thickness of it in
contact with the entire body of the piece. Try and make sure that you cover
all of the surface. You will need to use several small and irregularly
shaped pieces of newpaper to accomplish this. Then put the whole thing in a
heavy duty plastic garbage bag. Not one of the thin flimsy things....one of
the heavier mils. Mist the interior of the bag with water from your handy
dandy spray bottle and then close the whole thing up. Let it sit for several
hours and then check to see how things are going. You may need to let it sit
over night. This is a bit unorthodox but it may work to rehydrate the piece
if it is as dry as I think it is from your description of the cracking
problem.
The cracking problem is indeed do to the shrinking of clay on the
armature. This may be mitigated to a certain degree by keeping the whole
thing moist and covered and you may fill the cracks before taking a plaster
mold from the piece with either more clay or you can just separate,
reassemble, fill the cracks, let everytthing sit in a closed plastic bag for
several days so that moisture is equalized throughout the piece again, and
then slowly dry..
Before you do any of this be sure that your friend understands that you
do not know what you are really doing, the piece may be beyond salvage and
that you may be imploying the good ole roll the dice gambit with fingers
crossed for a favorable result.
One other thing to try, before you do any of the others, is to use a
rubber molding system that is both flexible and easily applied to any
complex or delicate mold. There are a number of outfits that have several
different and user friendly products that you may use quickly and easily to
get a rubber mold of the piece before you go through any potentially
destructive actions......the task of removing the partially hardened form
from the armature. In the past I have gotten supplies from a supplier called
polytek. The following is the link. They have very good tech support and
will be able to answer all of your questions
http://www.polytek.com/contact/contact.php
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Jonnum"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 11:35 PM
Subject: old sculpture
> I have a friend who's late husband was a sculptor. He created figures
> in wood stone and clay. Before his death he made a clay model for a
> work that he probably intended to make out of clay or stone. It is a
> fine, delicate sculpture of a lion attacking a gazelle. My friend has
kept
> this object moist for over a year. I am a potter and sculptor, and I have
> offered to try to fire this for her. Actually, I offered before I had
seen it.
> Now I'm not sure how to proceed. The animals have been
> constructed over an armiture. I think the armiture is aluminum wire. It
> is attached to plywood with a plumbing flange and a plastic pipe. The
> lion is badly cracked. This may be due to shrinkage or just to the fact
> that it has been sitting damp, in her garage for so long. The feet of the
> lion and most of the gazelle are resting on the plywood and would be
> very hard to separate. I don't imagine we could fire the model without
> first removing the plumbing parts. Do any of you have any
> suggestions about what we could do. My friend is going to ask
> another friend to photograph the work before we begin, so that if we
> break it trying to save it, at least she'll have the photos. Any advice
> would be appreciated.
> Nancy
>
>
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John Jensen on sun 6 jun 04
I think the mold idea is a good one...You might contact a art foundry
which could make the mold and cast the piece in bronze or many other
materials. Any attempt to remove the armature is going to involve
making repairs to the piece, perhaps very extensive ones. The original
artist might have been up to this, but it would be a challenge for
anyone else to attempt it. Good advice to continue to keep the piece
damp. If you decide to attempt a mold yourself, Polytek Corp. has a
great catalogue full of information on making molds.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
Debbie on sun 6 jun 04
Hi Nancy,
This is the sort of work I do, I'm a sculptor working mostly in bronze and
some times fired clay.
A model of this type (that's what a sculpture work in progress is called);
clay over an armature, is made either as a maquett for a finished piece
(meaning that it was done just to work out the design of the piece) or is
made with the idea that a rubber mold will be made from it for eventual
casting into bronze (or plaster of resin).
The model is not intended to be a permanent or finished work as it is. It
can't be fired with the armature in it and removing the armature would most
likely destroy it. Also, it sounds as if the delicate nature of the work as
you describe it was not intended for finishing in clay as the long thin
animal legs are better as bronze and pretty much a bad idea in clay!
This model could probably be repaired and finished. That would involve
filling and retexturing the cracks, making a rubber mold off of it, using
the rubber mold to create a wax duplicate of the model (or plaster or
resin). The wax would then be cast at a foundry into bronze and finished.
All of these steps require a very high skill level or are expensive. Another
option would be to enjoy the model as it is in a custom made acrylic display
case and just accept the cracks as an honest result of an unfinished method.
Best Wishes, Debbie Engle
> Subject: old sculpture
>
>
> I have a friend who's late husband was a sculptor. He created figures
> in wood stone and clay. Before his death he made a clay model for a
> work that he probably intended to make out of clay or stone. It is a
> fine, delicate sculpture of a lion attacking a gazelle. My
> friend has kept
> this object moist for over a year. I am a potter and sculptor, and I have
> offered to try to fire this for her. Actually, I offered before
> I had seen it.
> Now I'm not sure how to proceed. The animals have been
> constructed over an armiture. I think the armiture is aluminum wire. It
> is attached to plywood with a plumbing flange and a plastic pipe. The
> lion is badly cracked. This may be due to shrinkage or just to the fact
> that it has been sitting damp, in her garage for so long. The feet of the
> lion and most of the gazelle are resting on the plywood and would be
> very hard to separate. I don't imagine we could fire the model without
> first removing the plumbing parts. Do any of you have any
> suggestions about what we could do. My friend is going to ask
> another friend to photograph the work before we begin, so that if we
> break it trying to save it, at least she'll have the photos. Any advice
> would be appreciated.
> Nancy
>
>
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