Chris Rupp on mon 7 jun 04
Does anyone have any recipes for Nezumi Shino? Does the grey in Japanese
Nezumi Shino come from a cobalt slip under the glaze?
Any ideas? I love would to know more about this glaze and possibly try some
glaze tests.
Chris
Sunny Santa Barbara
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Hank Murrow on tue 8 jun 04
Dear Mike;
The Ona-Ita stone was used straight, according to Toyozo Arakawa's
notes that I had translated from a Japanese publication on his work.
The reason it fires so grey to blue is that those pots were located in
a part of the kiln which cooled more rapidly, and the firecolour never
had the time to develop. I can get both warm and cool colours by
altering the cooling cycle after my shino fires.
Interestingly, salyt fires reveal much the same effect, with rapid
cooling yielding the cooler tones, while slow cooling results in very
warm tones from the same materials.
Cheers, Hank........still on the workshop trail in CT.
On Jun 8, 2004, at 5:26 PM, Mike Martino wrote:
> There was a thread about a year ago about someone finding a gray type
> of
> stone and wondered if it could be used for anything. It was identified
> as
> 'grey shale', I believe. I wonder did the finder do any tests with it?
> I have some of the same stuff, and from what I've seen it would be a
> very
> likely candidate for a nice 'nezumi' color under the top glaze.
> Someone mentioned that oni-ita is used in traditional nezumi shino,
> but I
> don't think they used pure oni-ita. Too high in iron to be just grey.
> They
> use it extensively here in Karatsu as an underglaze paint, and the iron
> really comes through dark brown and black, not grey.
Richard Mahaffey on tue 8 jun 04
Hello,
The Nezumi (mouse gray) Shino pieces I have seen show traces of an Iron
bearing slip on them. I have seen some in museums in Japan and in
private collections where I could handle the piece.
A cobalt slip would make a blue color. Our clear has a gray color with
clay with more iron in it when well reduced.
Rick
Lee Love on wed 9 jun 04
There are different types of nezumi shino. Some are opaque and some are
not. Mostly the color comes from the slip underneath the glaze. I shared
John Baymore's blue slip for under shino a couple days ago. It has a
very little bit of cobalt in it, John said he was trying to duplicate
gosu. This gives the same kind of blue as in the modern blue shinos I
have seen. It can be found in the archives.
One the translucent nezumi that I have examined at the Mingeikan, looks
to me a lot like a chun. It has the same kinds of crystals in it. But I
think instead of the iron colorant being in the glaze, it is in the slip
beneath the glaze. You can see this because there is a scraffitoed
willow tree, and where the slip is cut out, the glaze is not blue, but
white. For this kind, try a blue Chun (I have shared my recipe, it is in
the archives) , but don't add the ocher to the glaze, but use it in a
slip beneath the glaze.
I also think that the firing has something to do with getting blue out
of shino.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://journals.fotki.com/togeika/Mashiko/ Commentary On Pottery
Mike Martino on wed 9 jun 04
There was a thread about a year ago about someone finding a gray type of
stone and wondered if it could be used for anything. It was identified as
'grey shale', I believe. I wonder did the finder do any tests with it?
I have some of the same stuff, and from what I've seen it would be a very
likely candidate for a nice 'nezumi' color under the top glaze.
Someone mentioned that oni-ita is used in traditional nezumi shino, but I
don't think they used pure oni-ita. Too high in iron to be just grey. They
use it extensively here in Karatsu as an underglaze paint, and the iron
really comes through dark brown and black, not grey.
Mike
in Taku
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Rupp
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 2:11 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Nezumi Shino
Does anyone have any recipes for Nezumi Shino? Does the grey in Japanese
Nezumi Shino come from a cobalt slip under the glaze?
Any ideas? I love would to know more about this glaze and possibly try some
glaze tests.
Chris
Sunny Santa Barbara
_________________________________________________________________
Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up $B!& (Bnow 3 months FREE!
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
____________________________________________________________________________
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Hank Murrow on wed 9 jun 04
On Jun 9, 2004, at 12:39 AM, Richard Mahaffey wrote:
> The Nezumi (mouse gray) Shino pieces I have seen show traces of an Iron
> bearing slip on them. I have seen some in museums in Japan and in
> private collections where I could handle the piece.
> A cobalt slip would make a blue color. Our clear has a gray color with
> clay with more iron in it when well reduced.
Dear Rick;
Often, the shino potters used a little unwashed wood ash with their
feldspar, and the Phosphorus can yield the blue color from iron-bearing
slip (Ona-ita clay). Sort of like Chun color.
Cheers, Hank
murrow.biz/hank
Mike Martino on thu 10 jun 04
Thanks Hank,
I have that book too, I think. Touki Zenshu Vol. 4, right? I found the
passage you mention. Arakawa goes on to say that depending on the type of
iron, the thickness of overlaying feldspar glaze, and the kiln (or part of
kiln, I would assume)they are fired in, many variations occur, and that you
get a range of color from grey to red. He refers to the color plate No. 7 at
the beginning of the book as an example of this.
I would guess that the thicker the feldspar over the slip, the less iron
that would be pulled up and converted through reduction and therefore less
iron to react later with oxygen to make the reds, browns, and blacks. That
piece shown in plate no. 7 looks like the overglaze is thinner than other
pieces, but maybe just my imagination.
Mike
in Taku
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Hank Murrow
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 11:16 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Nezumi Shino
Dear Mike;
The Ona-Ita stone was used straight, according to Toyozo Arakawa's
notes that I had translated from a Japanese publication on his work.
The reason it fires so grey to blue is that those pots were located in
a part of the kiln which cooled more rapidly, and the firecolour never
had the time to develop. I can get both warm and cool colours by
altering the cooling cycle after my shino fires.
Interestingly, salyt fires reveal much the same effect, with rapid
cooling yielding the cooler tones, while slow cooling results in very
warm tones from the same materials.
Cheers, Hank........still on the workshop trail in CT.
On Jun 8, 2004, at 5:26 PM, Mike Martino wrote:
> There was a thread about a year ago about someone finding a gray type
> of
> stone and wondered if it could be used for anything. It was identified
> as
> 'grey shale', I believe. I wonder did the finder do any tests with it?
> I have some of the same stuff, and from what I've seen it would be a
> very
> likely candidate for a nice 'nezumi' color under the top glaze.
> Someone mentioned that oni-ita is used in traditional nezumi shino,
> but I
> don't think they used pure oni-ita. Too high in iron to be just grey.
> They
> use it extensively here in Karatsu as an underglaze paint, and the iron
> really comes through dark brown and black, not grey.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
John Baymore on fri 11 jun 04
The info Lee Love got from me was information that I was given by a
shinoware potter whom I visited in 1996 in the Seto/Tajimi area. Basically
it has just a trace of cobalt....mostly iron. It does not go a strong blue
color... but a grey tone. Great for scratching thru the slip.
Works for me fine. I typically fire it in chamber 2.... which I often fire
more neutral atmosphere. Still fire to cone 10 down though.
best,
.............john
John Baymore
Tsugaru Kanayama
Goshogawara-shi, Aomori-ken
Japan
Lee Love on sat 29 oct 11
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:08:07 -0400, John Baymore =3D2=
0=3D
wrote:
>The info Lee Love got from me was information that I was given by a
>shinoware potter whom I visited in 1996 in the Seto/Tajimi area. Basica=
=3D
lly
>it has just a trace of cobalt....mostly iron. It does not go a strong b=
=3D
lue
>color... but a grey tone. Great for scratching thru the slip.
>
>Works for me fine. I typically fire it in chamber 2.... which I often f=
=3D
ire
>more neutral atmosphere. Still fire to cone 10 down though.
What I have found, is just a little bit of cobalt will help other oxides =
=3D
be bluer.=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20
I use V.C. Blue-Green, but often get a crappy liver red in my reduction f=
=3D
ires. I=3D20
make the same glaze, but with cobalt. I put a thin layer of cobalt down,=
=3D
and=3D20
then the V.C. Blue-Green with copper in it. You get more blue and the re=
=3D
d=3D20
highlights are more like crystallized cranberry. A much more acceptable =
=3D
red.
--
=3DA0Lee 李 Love in Minneapolis
I'm teaching at NCC this winter (I teach the last half):
Japanese-style Clay Techniques
Mondays, 6:30 =3D96 9:30 pm=3D09Jorgensen / Love
http://northernclaycenter.org/learn/classes.php
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