Chris Rupp on tue 15 jun 04
Hello Again Joe,
You can see what Tom and Elaine's Brown Celadon looks like at the following
website:
www.westmont.edu/ceramicsexhibition
Click on Elaine Coleman and there is a Brown/Butterscotch Bottle. This is
what the glaze looks like on porcelain.
Take Care,
Chris
Sunny Santa Barbara
_________________________________________________________________
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Joe Sanger on tue 15 jun 04
I am looking for a cone 10 brown celedon glaze that
does not go muddy when put on thick I use a Alpine
updraft reduction kiln
Any help would be great thanks
Joe Sanger
jsanger@pacbell.net
sdr on tue 15 jun 04
Joe asked:
> I am looking for a cone 10 brown celedon glaze that
> does not go muddy when put on thick .....
Use any of Val Cushing's Amber Celedon or Honey
Celedon glazes from his handbook. They are a beautiful
clear brown to amber (depending on thickness). And
if you have some real Albany slip you can use his
ORIGINAL Amber Celedon, and it will turn a striking
crystal blue where thick. Great for textures or pieces
with throwing rings/lines/marks, because the glaze will
vary from pale gold to brown to blue, all on one piece.
Test it/them - they respond to clay body.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 16 jun 04
Dear Friends,
"Amber Celadon", "Brown Celadon", "Honey Celadon" ?
Is this a change in Glaze Style or are these variations of the
original Chinese versions of the rich Felspathic glazes such as those
described by Nigel Wood in "Chinese Glazes".
Perhaps they are similar recipes which have been fired under oxidising
conditions rather than reducing conditions?
Or is it another subtle and confusing shift in meaning?
Best regards to all,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Christy Pines on wed 16 jun 04
Not only is this link interesting for the brown celedon, but an interesting follow-up to the recent thread on the crystalline vases and what was wrong with their shapes. On this site we see some more bulbous forms that do not suffer in the same way as the crystalline ones. Nice to see it done "right".
christy in connecticut, drooling over beautiful pots (the online ones, not mine!)
Chris Rupp wrote:
www.westmont.edu/ceramicsexhibition
Click on Elaine Coleman and there is a Brown/Butterscotch Bottle. This is
what the glaze looks like on porcelain.
Chris Rupp on wed 16 jun 04
Hello Ivor,
Technically, these glazes are not celadons because they do not have iron in
them. Many call them "celadons" because they have that look, but in actually
they are a clear glaze base with colorants added. Most of the glazes of this
type have copper as the colorant (greens, green/blues) but I think this
particular brown has a mason stain...The problem with these "copper
celadons" is their tendency to blush red, so one has to be very careful in
the firing process or an entire kiln load is ruined....I think it more or a
"subtle and confusing shift in meaning."
See: www.westmont.edu/ceramicsexhibition for more variations on this
glaze.
Chris
Sunny Santa Barbara
>From: Ivor and Olive Lewis
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Brown celedon cone 10 glaze
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:35:28 +0930
>
>Dear Friends,
>"Amber Celadon", "Brown Celadon", "Honey Celadon" ?
>Is this a change in Glaze Style or are these variations of the
>original Chinese versions of the rich Felspathic glazes such as those
>described by Nigel Wood in "Chinese Glazes".
>Perhaps they are similar recipes which have been fired under oxidising
>conditions rather than reducing conditions?
>Or is it another subtle and confusing shift in meaning?
>Best regards to all,
>Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 17 jun 04
Dear Chris Rup,
I recall somewhere in the discussion the mention of Albany Slip as one
of the ingredients of the "Honey Celadon". Had Copper been mentioned
as the colourant I would have expected Green in which case I might
have suggested they be called "Faux Celadon".
But the colour nuances described were all on the orange side of the
spectrum.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Earl Brunner on fri 18 jun 04
Celadon......Whatever. It is a glaze that admirably sets off her carving
and certainly has some of the characteristics of a celadon. We certainly
know what is meant when referred to as such.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Paul Taylor
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 12:21 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Brown celedon cone 10 glaze
Dear Chris and all
Elaine Coleman Makes some of my favourite pots.
The brown celadon on her webb site- by the look of the tag - says butter
she probably knows that a celadon is green. If she had called it an oxidised
celadon I would not have minded. As the worst speller in clay art I can not
quibble . I knew what the poster meant by brown celadon , so brown celadon
is an acceptable evolution in ceramic terminology - as far as this celadon
maker is concerned.
Paul Taylor on fri 18 jun 04
Dear Chris and all
Elaine Coleman Makes some of my favourite pots.
The brown celadon on her webb site- by the look of the tag - says butter
she probably knows that a celadon is green. If she had called it an oxidised
celadon I would not have minded. As the worst speller in clay art I can not
quibble . I knew what the poster meant by brown celadon , so brown celadon
is an acceptable evolution in ceramic terminology - as far as this celadon
maker is concerned.
If any one is interested Elaine's celadons are of the northern type and
rely on running into the grooves to produce the colour. The visual effect
of the pattern increases the effective brightness of the colour. A northern
type celadon can look very drab and watery with out the combing.
The southern celadons are more satin in their texture and its some trick
to get that and the brightness of colour , because iron is so temperamental.
Iron reduces and oxidises too readily either thermally or with reducing
gases present, so its easy to end up with a colour in-between . Not that
that is a bad thing, its just that its very difficult to control iron and
the pots can come out very individual in their colouring -from green to
brown with amber and cream and the dirty olive ( which is the most common
amateur and for shame some professionals excuse for a celadon ).
Us poor potters still have to produce sets which match in competition to
industrial pottery's . They I suspect avoid iron oxide as a colorant so if
you are making celadon as sets you have to be very consistent with the
firings. By the way I resent the coercion to make matching sets ,just cause
a machine can do no other.
I think ivor's taxonomy of the feuxceladon is probably correct but
unnecessary. I also think that if a person uses either the combing or the
satin glazes and wants to call it a celadon its OK, because I think the two
qualities brightness yet subtly of colour, an/or the satin texture with
opalescence, are also prime considerations in an exact definition.
So since there are few potters making true celadons we need to be broad
minded about the definition.
To the original question:- a brown celadon can be made with a brown stain
in an oxidised glaze and/or iron oxide. Make sure you oxidise the glaze
completely. I do not know for sure but I suspect too much of a soak may have
an effect on the colour as well. The amounts depend on the opalescence you
wish for in the glaze and the combing, and also any framing of the colour
also helps brightness.
By brightening the colour with framing I mean , banding on the rim, or
putting the glaze in defined areas . No doubt there were some Chinese pots
fired on their rims for economy and to prevent warping, but it was not the
only reason for the band of copper round some rims. A brown may be better
banded with white or maybe the light coloured body showing through or the
glaze breaking on the rim will do.
I have to add that, out of ignorance, there are a few dirty lifeless
olive greens out there with my mark on - such is life .
AND if the questioner had asked for a recipe for a brown majolica I would
have answered the same - such is communication
--
Regards from Paul Taylor
'Craftmanship is art'
http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
phone 098 21239
Paul Taylor
Westport pottery
Liscarney
Westport
County Mayo
Ireland
> From: Chris Rupp
> Reply-To: Clayart
> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:28:19 -0700
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Brown celedon cone 10 glaze
>
> Hello Again Joe,
>
> You can see what Tom and Elaine's Brown Celadon looks like at the following
> website:
>
> www.westmont.edu/ceramicsexhibition
>
> Click on Elaine Coleman and there is a Brown/Butterscotch Bottle. This is
> what the glaze looks like on porcelain.
>
> Take Care,
>
> Chris
> Sunny Santa Barbara
>
Joe Sanger on fri 18 jun 04
Paul thanks for the disertation
What I am looking for is a translucent dark Brown cone
10 reduction glaze that will not go muddy when put on
thick.
got any wprds or resipts on that vane
Thanks
Joe
--- Paul Taylor wrote:
> Dear Chris and all
>
> Elaine Coleman Makes some of my favourite pots.
>
> The brown celadon on her webb site- by the look of
> the tag - says butter
> she probably knows that a celadon is green. If she
> had called it an oxidised
> celadon I would not have minded. As the worst
> speller in clay art I can not
> quibble . I knew what the poster meant by brown
> celadon , so brown celadon
> is an acceptable evolution in ceramic terminology -
> as far as this celadon
> maker is concerned.
>
> If any one is interested Elaine's celadons are of
> the northern type and
> rely on running into the grooves to produce the
> colour. The visual effect
> of the pattern increases the effective brightness
> of the colour. A northern
> type celadon can look very drab and watery with out
> the combing.
>
> The southern celadons are more satin in their
> texture and its some trick
> to get that and the brightness of colour , because
> iron is so temperamental.
>
> Iron reduces and oxidises too readily either
> thermally or with reducing
> gases present, so its easy to end up with a colour
> in-between . Not that
> that is a bad thing, its just that its very
> difficult to control iron and
> the pots can come out very individual in their
> colouring -from green to
> brown with amber and cream and the dirty olive (
> which is the most common
> amateur and for shame some professionals excuse for
> a celadon ).
>
> Us poor potters still have to produce sets which
> match in competition to
> industrial pottery's . They I suspect avoid iron
> oxide as a colorant so if
> you are making celadon as sets you have to be very
> consistent with the
> firings. By the way I resent the coercion to make
> matching sets ,just cause
> a machine can do no other.
>
> I think ivor's taxonomy of the feuxceladon is
> probably correct but
> unnecessary. I also think that if a person uses
> either the combing or the
> satin glazes and wants to call it a celadon its OK,
> because I think the two
> qualities brightness yet subtly of colour, an/or the
> satin texture with
> opalescence, are also prime considerations in an
> exact definition.
>
> So since there are few potters making true
> celadons we need to be broad
> minded about the definition.
>
>
> To the original question:- a brown celadon can be
> made with a brown stain
> in an oxidised glaze and/or iron oxide. Make sure
> you oxidise the glaze
> completely. I do not know for sure but I suspect too
> much of a soak may have
> an effect on the colour as well. The amounts depend
> on the opalescence you
> wish for in the glaze and the combing, and also any
> framing of the colour
> also helps brightness.
>
> By brightening the colour with framing I mean ,
> banding on the rim, or
> putting the glaze in defined areas . No doubt there
> were some Chinese pots
> fired on their rims for economy and to prevent
> warping, but it was not the
> only reason for the band of copper round some rims.
> A brown may be better
> banded with white or maybe the light coloured body
> showing through or the
> glaze breaking on the rim will do.
>
> I have to add that, out of ignorance, there are a
> few dirty lifeless
> olive greens out there with my mark on - such is
> life .
>
> AND if the questioner had asked for a recipe for a
> brown majolica I would
> have answered the same - such is communication
>
>
>
> --
> Regards from Paul Taylor
>
> 'Craftmanship is art'
>
> http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
>
> phone 098 21239
>
> Paul Taylor
> Westport pottery
> Liscarney
> Westport
> County Mayo
> Ireland
>
>
> > From: Chris Rupp
> > Reply-To: Clayart
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:28:19 -0700
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Brown celedon cone 10 glaze
> >
> > Hello Again Joe,
> >
> > You can see what Tom and Elaine's Brown Celadon
> looks like at the following
> > website:
> >
> > www.westmont.edu/ceramicsexhibition
> >
> > Click on Elaine Coleman and there is a
> Brown/Butterscotch Bottle. This is
> > what the glaze looks like on porcelain.
> >
> > Take Care,
> >
> > Chris
> > Sunny Santa Barbara
> >
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
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