Kenneth J. Nowicki on thu 1 jul 04
As I mentioned before here, I'm doing a "hybrid" kiln project with L&L this
summer. Part of my plan was to purchase an Oxyprobe to gain a handle on the
reduction end of things in this kiln design. I am new to these devices, and have
been trying to do a little research on which one I should invest in. Any input
from any of you who have experience with these devices would be greatly
appreciated.
In my first initial search, I've discovered that Bailey as well as Axner both
sell them. It seems that Bailey's is a little bit cheaper than Axner's (by
about $50) if my comparisons are accurate.
It appears from the catalogs that these instruments are essentially the same.
The only real difference I can tell by looking at them in the catalog is that
the Axner "Fireball Oxyprobe" has a "built in" protection tube, whereas the
Bailey "AIC Oxyprobe" has a removable protection tube (with 1/8" inch walls for
protection - Axner's doesn't specify the thickness of theirs). Whether or not
it makes any difference having a built in protection tube to protect the
probe or a removable one... is something that I have no idea of. I would venture
to guess that maybe the "built in" one might be better in that maybe it has a
better more permanent "seal"... and that it keeps the probe from getting
corroded? I have no idea. Conversely, should the protection tube ever become
accidentally damaged and need replacement, maybe the removable one would be less
costly and a better solution? Hmmm.
The digital meters look nearly identical in both companies. Axner's ad claims
that their Fireball Oxyprobe has a "much heavier meter". Much heavier than
what? The one they used to sell? The competition's? Who's?
Axner also claims in their ad that their Oxyprobe is "built more heavily
throughout"; "lower in price"; "built in the USA, by Axner. We are available
should you ever need repairs or service."; and their "instructions are complete and
easy to understand". They also tout a testimonial from Nils Lou.
I don't see how they are "lower in price" than Bailey's... but whatever. I do
think that offering to be available should they need service or repair, and
plus the fact that they are made in the USA are definite benefits. On the other
hand, Bailey is closer to me geographically than Axner is, and I suppose I
ought to take that into consideration. (I'm on Long Island in NY) Bailey is
still a long drive for me (2.5 hours at least). I can't speak to whether or not
Axner's Oxyprobe is heavier or better built than Bailey's or not. Anyone have
any thoughts on this?
Here's the prices I was given:
Bailey - #C-180-001 AIC 200mm Probe Outfit $645.19
Axner - #082500 Fireball Oxyprobe 10" $695.00
Thanks in advance for sharing all of your insight and thoughts on this
expensive investment. Understandably, I would like to make the most informed
decision possible.
All the best,
- Ken
Kenneth J. Nowicki
Port Washington, NY
RakuArtist@aol.com
Charter Member/Potters Council
Marvpots@AOL.COM on thu 1 jul 04
Hi:
I have used the Axner oxyprobe for several years and am satisfied that it is
doing its job well; I have also found that if I have any questions Axner
replies fully and promptly.
I have known Bailey also for some time; have great respect for them and have
purchased several items from them ( a slab roller for example) and would not
hesitate to do business with them again if circumstances permitted.
I hope this helps.
All the best.
Marvin Flowerman
marvpots@aol.com
.
Bob Santerre on thu 1 jul 04
Ken, I own and use both the AIC and Fireball probes. They perform
identically for me with respect to both the oxyprobe function and the
temp probe function. I would buy the cheapest one (not really cheap,
definitely not cheap). The AIC's removable protection tube (they tell
you NOT to remove it) required a little attention to make sure it wasn't
displaced during installation, once in place it's a non-issue. My
probes are 4 and 5 years old and neither one has failed so far. Bailey
has provided excellent service to me on other items I've purchased from
them. I have found Axner equally responsive. Both good companies. All
that's left is price.
Bob
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Kenneth J. Nowicki wrote:
>As I mentioned before here, I'm doing a "hybrid" kiln project with L&L this
>summer. Part of my plan was to purchase an Oxyprobe to gain a handle on the
>reduction end of things in this kiln design. I am new to these devices, and have
>been trying to do a little research on which one I should invest in. Any input
>from any of you who have experience with these devices would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>In my first initial search, I've discovered that Bailey as well as Axner both
>sell them. It seems that Bailey's is a little bit cheaper than Axner's (by
>about $50) if my comparisons are accurate.
>
>It appears from the catalogs that these instruments are essentially the same.
>The only real difference I can tell by looking at them in the catalog is that
>the Axner "Fireball Oxyprobe" has a "built in" protection tube, whereas the
>Bailey "AIC Oxyprobe" has a removable protection tube (with 1/8" inch walls for
>protection - Axner's doesn't specify the thickness of theirs). Whether or not
>it makes any difference having a built in protection tube to protect the
>probe or a removable one... is something that I have no idea of. I would venture
>to guess that maybe the "built in" one might be better in that maybe it has a
>better more permanent "seal"... and that it keeps the probe from getting
>corroded? I have no idea. Conversely, should the protection tube ever become
>accidentally damaged and need replacement, maybe the removable one would be less
>costly and a better solution? Hmmm.
>
>The digital meters look nearly identical in both companies. Axner's ad claims
>that their Fireball Oxyprobe has a "much heavier meter". Much heavier than
>what? The one they used to sell? The competition's? Who's?
>
>Axner also claims in their ad that their Oxyprobe is "built more heavily
>throughout"; "lower in price"; "built in the USA, by Axner. We are available
>should you ever need repairs or service."; and their "instructions are complete and
>easy to understand". They also tout a testimonial from Nils Lou.
>
>I don't see how they are "lower in price" than Bailey's... but whatever. I do
>think that offering to be available should they need service or repair, and
>plus the fact that they are made in the USA are definite benefits. On the other
>hand, Bailey is closer to me geographically than Axner is, and I suppose I
>ought to take that into consideration. (I'm on Long Island in NY) Bailey is
>still a long drive for me (2.5 hours at least). I can't speak to whether or not
>Axner's Oxyprobe is heavier or better built than Bailey's or not. Anyone have
>any thoughts on this?
>
>Here's the prices I was given:
>
>Bailey - #C-180-001 AIC 200mm Probe Outfit $645.19
>Axner - #082500 Fireball Oxyprobe 10" $695.00
>
>Thanks in advance for sharing all of your insight and thoughts on this
>expensive investment. Understandably, I would like to make the most informed
>decision possible.
>
>All the best,
>
>- Ken
>
>
>Kenneth J. Nowicki
>Port Washington, NY
>RakuArtist@aol.com
>Charter Member/Potters Council
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
Paul B on thu 1 jul 04
I did my apprenticeship at a studio owned by a friend who bought one of
those, and i was not surprised to find that it was more or less a waste of
money. Although it did give a general idea of just how heavy the kiln was
reducing, after a few firings it was very easy to figure that out anyway
(we were just learning reduction firing at the time) and i found that with
the kiln we were using, we could not follow the suggested firing schedule
that came with it and still get good results anyway. So the bottom line is
that i don't think my friend ever saved any money by using it, and the
claim that these instruments pay for themselves with the amount of fuel you
can save by using them is very debateable. Plus he has had to send it back
a couple of times to have it fixed and that cost even more money.
If you are really that concerned about it, you could just find a potter
that has one and rent it from them for a firing or two, and that would be
all need from this instrument.
Another thing to add is that when i first set up my own studio, i borrowed
my friend's oxyprobe for a few firings and found that once again, the
suggested firing schedule did not work well enough to get copper reds and
such. So i just started to reduce heavier and earlier and got the results i
wanted, and later in the firing i let up on the reduction so as not to
waste fuel. For me, if i lose one pot due to not enough reduction then i
have not saved anything in terms of fuel cost.
There are just so many other things one could do with that amount of money -
if you contact me off-list i would be glad to share ideas with you.
Paul B
Falmouth, KY
Rod Wuetherick on fri 2 jul 04
Paul B,
Unless you have used a probe for a good length of time I'm sorry but I don't
think you are qualified to tell a list of 3000 people that an Oxy-Probe is a
waste of time.
#1 use of an Oxy-Probe is telling you when you have "Neutral" firing
atmosphere. This is a balance between a little reduction and oxidation. This
is the most efficient firing atmosphere. If you have ever fiddled with your
kiln to get it into this atmosphere you will know two things; #1 - it is
next to impossible to tell you have a neutral without the probe. There are
really no indicators other than rate of temperature increase. #2 Once you do
it many find they literally knock hours off of their firings. I have heard
people who have knocked 10 hours of their firings and get the same results
they have had before. Obviously if you are firing your gas kiln for 5 days
with shino's in there to mimic the kind of pyroplastic deformation that you
would get in a large anagama, etc. the probe will probably not save you
allot - though it may help you get the kind of trapping you want i.e. -
none, some, lots. These choices are easy to make once you know your probe
and your kiln.
Just this alone has saved me literally 20 times the price of the probe in
saved time and gas over the years that I have used it. The current probe has
70+ firings on it - you do the math.
Secondly to say once you find the right level of reduction you don't need
it; this statement shows some inexperience. How you set your primary air and
damper can change from day to day based on atmospheric pressure, etc, etc
etc. All kilns in my experience slowly increase their reduction as the
firing progresses - Ivor and others I'm sure have some fancy formulae to
prove the reason behind this behavior.
The probe allows you to monitor your firing and back it off at critical
points. Especially useful for firing Celadon's, Copper Reds, and carbon
trapped shino's all for different reasons. With carbon trapped shinos for
example I get amazing trapping with nary a speck of smoke coming from the
stack. Anyone that fires copper reds will tell you that having a probe is an
indispensable tool for a number of reasons - keeping the right amount of
reduction and the avoidance of stalling which can destroy a kiln load of
reds because of volitization.
The skinny on a probe is that if you are a hobbyist you will enjoy the
control and if your like myself and depend on every load - the probe saves
time, gas, and unneeded frustration. If you love finicky glazes the probe is
a god send.
Saying an Oxy-Probe is a waste of money is not a valid opinion, in my
opinion- it is misinformation. If you can afford the price and you fire your
gas kiln more than 10 times a year it is well worth the money. The bigger
the kiln the bigger the savings obviously.
Probes can teach you so much about your klln that I would have paid $2500.00
for what my probe has taught me over the past 6 years. I still use it every
single firing and I fire my smaller kiln at least 60 times a year.
As far as your friend having to send it back a couple of times to have it
fixed and that cost more money. I have over 70 firings on my current probe
without it having to be rewound. The length of time between equipment being
serviced or not is often a factor of how well it is cared for. I know many
people consistently get well over 100 firings before their probe needs
servicing. Besides that if your brave enough you can learn to do it
yourself. It is not that difficult.
Respectfully yours,
Rod
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Paul B
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 2:44 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Oxyprobe users: Please help?
I did my apprenticeship at a studio owned by a friend who bought one of
those, and i was not surprised to find that it was more or less a waste of
money. Although it did give a general idea of just how heavy the kiln was
reducing, after a few firings it was very easy to figure that out anyway
(we were just learning reduction firing at the time) and i found that with
Roger Graham on fri 2 jul 04
For Kenneth, contemplating purchase of an oxyprobe. Been there, done that.
The oxyprobe I bought several years ago cost $800 at the time, and has
survived maybe 40 firings so far. That was a lot of money, but I have no
regrets. Rod Wuetherick's post covers the pro-oxyprobe case so well that
there's nothing to add there. Oxyprobes are good news. BUT....
For the last 20 firings, I've had a Kiln Exhaust Sniffer fitted on the kiln
flue, as well as the oxyprobe down inside the kiln. I've logged readings
from both instruments throughout every firing, and drawn graphs of the rise
and fall of the readings during oxidation & reduction. And have convinced
myself that anything the $800 oxyprobe can tell me, can be seen just as
reliably on the $5 exhaust sniffer. It measures the same thing, in the same
way, just a few seconds later. So, if building another kiln, I'd settle for
just an exhaust sniffer and a good pyrometer.
This might be the place to comment on something I've noticed using the
oxyprobe and the sniffer on a four-burner gas kiln (about 27 cubic feet,
downdraft, front loading). Trying to fire economically in oxidation, I
adjusted the kiln damper so the two instruments showed the atmosphere to be
just on the oxidation side of neutral. Surprise surprise, when opening the
kiln later. All the pots towards one corner of the kiln showed evidence of
reduction. Copper greens were nasty pink. Temmokus had melted more fluidly
and run down onto the shelves. Oops.
It's obvious when one thinks about it... the burner in that corner of the
kiln must have been getting a bit less air than the other three. The AVERAGE
of the four burners was what the oxyprobe and the sniffer were reading. So
I've learned not to be too clever when trying to fire in oxidation, and not
try so hard for a barely-oxidising atmosphere. False economy, if the kiln
is not oxidising in every corner.
Roger Graham, near Gerringong, Australia
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
June Perry on fri 2 jul 04
Ken,
I had an Axner oxyproble that I bought from Nils Lou years ago when they
first came out and it broke almost immediately. Nil fixed it for me but after one
or two firings the reduction measuring part would not work again. The first
time, the platinum wire had broken -- probably had loosened during shipping,
since I never dropped it or man handled it.
After sitting on the shelf doing nothing for several years, I took it to
Axners since Nils Lou isn't fixing them any more, and they had to send it out and
the word came back that it couldn't be fixed.
Even if it couldn't have been repaired, it would cost $50 just to have the
outside people look at it. I had them put one of the probes back, since the
digital pyrometer part was still working, so I got something for my $50.
I think I was just unlucky and got a lemon, since others seem to have had
better luck with it.
When I was at Axners I was shown their new version without the removable
tube; but the downside of it is that the new one without the outer protective
tube, can't be fixed. That's what the young man told me.
Like you, I'll be eager to get feedback on the Bailey since I'm not too keen
about buying something that is more expensive than the Bailey and can't be
fixed if needed.
Another question you might want to ask Bailey is how much they charge for
repair and if they do their repairs on site or ship them out to a third party.
Sometimes the initial cost is lower, but the maintenance is higher.
Good luck!
June Perry
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/shambhalapottery/
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on sat 3 jul 04
Hey , about Coleman and reds,, i went to his workshop for a week in Lost
Wages before NCECA a few years ago.. His stack and the top of his shed had been
blown off from winds before we got there for the workshop. He fired his Geil
kiln during the workshop,, we were there while he fired,, we were also there
when he unloaded his kiln,, ALL PERFECT REDS ALL THROUGH THE KILN,, I saw it,, If
it was BS i would tell you all , BUT it was a perfect red firing even though
the wind was ripping,, He and Cory also had some cool little black pots all
around the burner ports..
The photos in the mags are all real , no BS
Mark on Lookout Mtn
just got back from Fire works,, so cool.. Up here on the Mtn New Salem the
community has a super show.. I get to set across the lake where they fire them
off on the dam of the lake, WOW. Came home to help a toad eat bugs,, he is so
fat i named hin Jabba the toad
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 3 jul 04
Dear Rod Wuetherick,
You bring me into the discussion with <<...All kilns in my experience
slowly increase their reduction as the firing progresses - Ivor and
others I'm sure have some fancy formulae to prove the reason behind
this behaviour...>>
Well, I do observe that phenomenon with my little old kiln. There are
times when I wish I could introduce additional secondary air.
But I had not thought about inventing some sort of formulae for folk
to work with. Nor do I have an Oxyprobe with which to experiment. One
thing is certain, the chemistry of combustible carbonaceous gases is
quite complex and not as simple as some of the equations given in
popular text books might suggest
Nevertheless I agree with your summation of the uses of this sort of
instrumentation. If I were in commercial production, even at a
moderate level, I would make the investment. After all, one purpose of
being in business is to make a profit. In many cases such excess
income is derived from the efficiencies afforded to us by using good
instrumentation.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
.
Ingeborg Foco on sat 3 jul 04
Hi Ken,
I've been using an oxy probe since the mid 80's. I purchased mine from
Nils Lou who handled the Australian model at that time. Nils cemented a
protective tube over the probe in hopes of having it last longer. When it
went kaput, the cemented tube made it impossible to repair the platinum
wire. Nils did repair it by breaking the protective tube and this time I
opted for a tube that was not cemented. Since I don't move the probe
around, having a loose sleeve isn't really a major issue. (I wasn't aware
Nils no longer did repair jobs.)
I think it taught me some things about firings in general and I suppose has
helped reduce my fuel consumption. When it broke, I felt lost without it
even though it really doesn't work in the way I had hoped it would.
Explanation: I do a lot of copper reds and strive to have the "perfect"
atmosphere to produce copper reds. Many times the oxi readings are in the
perfect range and yet when I open the kiln.......major
disappointment...minimal reds. I struggled for a long time with this and
moved it to a couple of different locations to see if that made a
difference. I've concluded that it doesn't matter where the probe is
located. I think it works really well in giving a valid reading of the
atmosphere located in the vicinity of the probe. Unfortunately, the
readings don't cover the entire 30 cubic feet of my downdraft and I have
many disappointments when all readings would indicate a perfect copper red
atmosphere.
That said, I don't know if I would replace it the next time it fails. I
think a good digital pyrometer is more valuable and clearly less costly.
You know instantly if you are stalling, dropping temperature or getting a
good heat rise. With this knowledge you can make intelligent adjustments
to your damper which in turn can save time, fuel, and hopefully give you
great firing results.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
Rod Wuetherick on sat 3 jul 04
Ingeborg,
I suppose being an oxy-probe convert my opinion is slanted towards the pro's
of probes. That being said while reading your reply I encountered the
following;
"I think it taught me some things about firings in general and I suppose has
helped reduce my fuel consumption."
Is this not reason enough to use your probe. As I stated in my prior email
the savings in fuel alone has paid for my probe. If you have been using one
since the mid 80's you have saved considerable amounts of fuel. I propose
that is more than a "suppose" that is significant in your time and our
planets fossil fuel supply.
When mentioning your 30 cubic foot kiln you mentioned that the readings were
different in every location you put the probe. That being said can I not
extrapolate from your personal observations about your kiln that you most
certainly have atmospheric leaks? I know that when using a probe on a kiln
using the method of reduction of applying far to much gas to the chamber we
are missing one crucial point - back pressure. I don't think anyone will
ever get any kind of accurate readings from the probe without some back
pressure. This is even more true in a kiln that needs maintenance and has
many leaks. Obviously if you do not have back pressure there are places in
the kiln that will be getting uneven reduction.
When you mention adjusting the damper you do not mention primary air.
Obviously flame length will also effect the probe readings as well.
and finally you say,
"I think it works really well in giving a valid reading of the
atmosphere located in the vicinity of the probe. Unfortunately, the
readings don't cover the entire 30 cubic feet of my downdraft and I have
many disappointments when all readings would indicate a perfect copper red
atmosphere."
Please forgive me for my ignorance in the specifics are your kiln but when
you say this without knowing your kiln etc. it still begs for one to
mention that it seems obvious to me that the problem isn't the probe but the
kiln. You didn't mention in your post the difference in readings on the
probe. If the readings are different by for example 5.6 when it comes
through the roof and 5.4 when it is in the door I think this is fair and
cannot be mentioned as a fault of the probe, the kiln, or the operator. But
if you are getting differences of 5.6 in the roof and then 4.2 in the door I
think you have some big leaks and again this is not a fault of the probe -
if anything the probe is telling you something.
I guess what I am getting at is with copper reds you never get a perfect 10
in a kiln load do you? I should hope that no one here believes the picture
of Tom Coleman's perfect copper red kiln loads that appear from time to time
in ceramics magazines isn't an actual shot? smile....
Having an oxyprobe no more offers me perfect loads of copper reds and shinos
than the kiln god that I have on the top of my kiln. As far as I have found
in 8 years of using the probe that it is an indispensable tool for a
plethora of reasons. I'm not going to list them all again in this letter-
it's just that I think that with anything a tool is a tool is a tool. One
needs to use the tool as such and not as a silver bullet.
One thing that the probe offers is great data for kiln logs. Couple that
with the atmospheric pressure, humidity, and wind velocity. Wind - how many
people know the proximity of buildings to their stacks can increase or
decrease wind velocity on their stack. A windy day is not a good day to fire
copper reds! BUT if you have that oxyprobe in there and it does get windy
you can make the adjustments that you need to save a load that might
otherwise have been a failure. In most cases wind never blows straight down
at least not here in Canada ;) but you could have a building close enough
that could cause a current to blow straight down your stack. But I think in
most cases you will have wind blowing across the mouth of your stack and
this would increase flue speed causing all kinds of havoc to your
atmosphere. Blowing across or straight down all present problems however
different.
Anyways for fear of sounding like I have stocks in all the oxy-probe
companies I will be quiet now!
Cheers,
Rod
Rod Wuetherick on sun 4 jul 04
Ahhh a Geil Kiln... Now there is a kiln that has Computerized damper control
hooked up to
an oxygen probe..... I still say having perfect reds throughout is lucky or
maybe lucky to have a Geil kiln... That computer can react more times and
faster than any of us can...
What is the price on a 7 cubic foot Geil 10K American?
Interested.. Thanks for the post... Though I still find perfect copper red
every load hard to
believe. But I've never fired a Geil either ;)..... I always have a few
washed out...
Cheers,
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 8:11 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Oxyprobe users: Please help?
Hey , about Coleman and reds,, i went to his workshop for a week in Lost
Wages before NCECA a few years ago.. His stack and the top of his shed had
been
blown off from winds before we got there for the workshop. He fired his Geil
kiln during the workshop,, we were there while he fired,, we were also there
when he unloaded his kiln,, ALL PERFECT REDS ALL THROUGH THE KILN,, I saw
it,, If
it was BS i would tell you all , BUT it was a perfect red firing even
though
the wind was ripping,, He and Cory also had some cool little black pots all
around the burner ports..
The photos in the mags are all real , no BS
Mark on Lookout Mtn
just got back from Fire works,, so cool.. Up here on the Mtn New Salem the
community has a super show.. I get to set across the lake where they fire
them
off on the dam of the lake, WOW. Came home to help a toad eat bugs,, he is
so
fat i named hin Jabba the toad
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ingeborg Foco on sun 4 jul 04
Hi Rod,
I'm glad you like your oxi probe. I simply meant to give my input to Ken.
For me
the oxi probe is another tool and in my case a questionable tool considering
the cost and the way it works or doesn't. It is, I think, difficult to
explain ones kiln and how it
operates in several paragraphs. It is just not that simple or straight
forward. I regret my post wasn't all that clear.
I have had two kilns and one oxi probe. Of course I learned a lot about
firing. In the early 80's I managed to buy my first little kiln. It came
with no instructions and I had never fired a gas kiln. It was a very
interesting experience.
I thought it strange that one can buy a hair dryer with 5 pages of
instructions on how to operate but purchase a gas kiln which tells you to
just light the burners. Of course that was over 20 years ago and things are
more sophisticated now, at least I hope so. Regardless, I did learn a lot
in the process.
Lesson #1 Wear a hat and stand back. Unfortunately lesson wasn't
learned until after the eyebrows and hair were scorched :) Did I learn
because of the probe or because one can't
help but learn in the process? I am only guessing I saved on
fuel. To point blank state an oxi probe saves fuel is not really factual.
There is no scientific way of telling whether or not one saves fuel
unless you do a detailed analysis......I don't have the interest or the
time to mess with details like that. I do, however keep detailed firing
logs and when I use
more than the what I consider a normal amount of fuel, I look to see why and
how I can improve
the next time.
When the oxi probe broke, I was lost without it because the digital
pyrometer portion broke along with the atmospheric reading. I really was
working in the dark so to speak. Personally, I think a digital pyrometer is
THE most important thing for a good firing. The ability to know if you are
getting a heat rise or losing temperature is
critical in fuel conservation, firing time and aid in damper adjustment. My
thought is that you don't
need to spend hundreds of dollars when one can purchase a decent digital
pyrometer.
My present kiln probably could be tighter since the bricks aren't mortared.
However, firing with natural draft burners (Eclipse compound mixers, not
some home made
pipe burners) is not always as easy as one would think. All of the
atmospheric conditions come together to create havoc with the firing.
I have lived in two places and they couldn't possibly be any more different
from
each other. One thing though that seems to remain constant is "wind." I've
tried
firing early in the mornings, late at night and during the day. Since my
firings are generally in the 10-11 hour range and we have only 24 hours in a
day, there is no way to avoid the wind conditions that seem to occur. No
matter how calm a day starts, the breezes always seem to pick up and create
problems just at the point where you really could do without any outside
influences. I don't know where you live to not have to deal with natural
elements but wind is part of the natural world I live in. If I waited for
the perfect windless day, I would never fire.
As for back pressure I always have a minimum of 6-8 inches of flames
shooting from the peeps. Looking into a hot kiln one can see many paths of
heat/flame swirling about. My point is the oxi probe doesn't have the
ability to read all of this. It only senses what is close by. (that isn't
scientific fact just an observation on my part) If it could take readings
throughout the kiln and give an average read out that would be great.
I too thought the ads showing Tom Coleman with all of those beautiful red
pots was a staged photo op and I never expected anything like that. Now
though that Mark has informed us that those pots are real and not staged, I
really do expect more. For sure, it is a great ad for Geil Kilns.
To sum up my point, I have an oxi probe, I use it regularly. The part that
is the most important to me is the digital pyrometer. If and when it breaks
again, it will depend on how much it costs to repair the probe. If it is
too much, I will probably opt for a digital pyrometer and take it from
there. To each his own.
Happy firings.
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
> Is this not reason enough to use your probe. As I stated in my prior email
> the savings in fuel alone has paid for my probe. If you have been using
one
> since the mid 80's you have saved considerable amounts of fuel. I propose
> that is more than a "suppose" that is significant in your time and our
> planets fossil fuel supply.
Ingeborg Foco on sun 4 jul 04
Rod,
Do you think we might not get a little bored with so many red pots in all
their glorious perfection?
Of course, right at this time, red seems to be the color and I could sell
each and every one of them for a premium price. Oh well.
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
> >
> Interested.. Thanks for the post... Though I still find perfect copper red
> every load hard to
> believe. But I've never fired a Geil either ;)..... I always have a few
> washed out...
>
> Cheers,
> Rod
>
>
>
>
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