Fredrick Paget on mon 19 jul 04
>I have used clorox in the throwing water to kill off the A. niger; so far it
>just makes the water seem slimy feeling, but no discernible difference in
>the end product.
>
>What I WOULD like to know, if anybody does have a clue, is will adding
>bleach to underglazes alter the color?
The bleach has some residual sodium hydroxide (lye) in it as well as
the sodium hypochlorite. The soapy feeling you get from it is due to
the lye. I think that it is needed in there to stabilize the
hypochlorite.
If you add very much it may act as a soda flux, soak into the ware,
and cause problems. Go slow - test a small batch first.
Another possibility is to use Physan or Consan 20. These are
algaecides and disinfectants that work in very dilute solution, I got
mine from my orchid growing hobby. We spray it as a disinfectant and
algae killer in the greenhouse. The same chemicals are sometimes used
in swimming pools to kill algae..It is also said to kill viruses and
they use it in hospitals to clean things.
Fred
--
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
fredrick@well.com
L. P. Skeen on mon 19 jul 04
I have used clorox in the throwing water to kill off the A. niger; so far it
just makes the water seem slimy feeling, but no discernible difference in
the end product.
What I WOULD like to know, if anybody does have a clue, is will adding
bleach to underglazes alter the color? I have been working on a big job
with the local science center. They have gallon jugs of underglaze which I
procured for them; now the yellow has gone funky and she wants a new jug
($$). I know this is just due to the organic nature of underglazes; all
mine are old and stink righteously, but she's all about the aesthetics since
the people who are painting with the stuff paid $$ for the privelige. Can I
add a bit o' bleach to the bottle and still get yellow?
L
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "claybair"
> Would a bit of bleach in the
> foul smelling slip or glaze bucket
> alter the firing result??
claybair on tue 20 jul 04
So....
I guess the questions then are:
Is there a stable protective biocide
compatible with ceramic products?
And
Are they safe to use?
I'm not saying I would run out to get it
or even use it but there have been people
with compromised immune systems whether
it be allergies or something more serious
who have asked that question before.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Edouard
Bastarache Inc.
Hello all,
Bleach
Bleach is not an adequate biocide because if one uses bleach as a
preventive biocid in the conservation of a ceramic product containing
organic matter, its short duration effect will not be able to effectively
protect this product over time.
Bleach can be used as a disinfecting material for cleaning, with a
temporary and effective action, containers and other equipment. But, it is
not not compatible with ceramic products for ensuring their conservation,
i.e:
- its high pH, which deflocculates clays at the beginning of its
introduction into a liquid glaze, decreases thereafter producing the
opposite effect (flocculation), which can be disastrous for the ceramicist
(worse than the bacteria), if he has set the viscosity of his product right
after having introduced bleach.
- Or the effect of the bleach pH is straightforwardly incompatible with the
product because it causes too great modifications of its properties
Conclusion :
Bleach is an excellent disinfectant, but its high pH and its short duration
effect make it a temporary cleaning material not very compatible, as a
stable protective biocide, with ceramic products
Smart.Conseil and I
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Earl Brunner on tue 20 jul 04
I'm not sure putting bleach in the TOP, standing water of a slip bucket will
do much below the surface, I have heard of artifical lakes being lined with
a layer of clay so that the water doesn't drain away. If it does that, then
I'm not sure that putting bleach or anything else on the top will will get
it into the clay enough to do anything.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of L. P. Skeen
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Bleaching out the nasties (was clay meat, one veg)
I have used clorox in the throwing water to kill off the A. niger; so far it
just makes the water seem slimy feeling, but no discernible difference in
the end product.
Jonathan Kirkendall on tue 20 jul 04
Hi Lisa,
Don't know if others experience this, but I'm VERY allergic to clorox -
even the fumes cause the membranes inside my nose to blister, and so
you can imagine what happens when it gets on my skin. This may be a
rare sensitivity (having grown up in a third world country, my Mom used
clorox liberally on everything) but worth considering if a group of
unknown people will be using the material with clorox in it.
Jonathan in DC
On Monday, July 19, 2004, at 08:47 PM, L. P. Skeen wrote:
> I have used clorox in the throwing water to kill off the A. niger; so
> far it
> just makes the water seem slimy feeling, but no discernible difference
> in
> the end product.
>
> What I WOULD like to know, if anybody does have a clue, is will adding
> bleach to underglazes alter the color? I have been working on a big
> job
> with the local science center. They have gallon jugs of underglaze
> which I
> procured for them; now the yellow has gone funky and she wants a new
> jug
> ($$). I know this is just due to the organic nature of underglazes;
> all
> mine are old and stink righteously, but she's all about the aesthetics
> since
> the people who are painting with the stuff paid $$ for the privelige.
> Can I
> add a bit o' bleach to the bottle and still get yellow?
>
> L
>
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "claybair"
>> Would a bit of bleach in the
>> foul smelling slip or glaze bucket
>> alter the firing result??
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Kathy Forer on tue 20 jul 04
What is the chemical effect of Hydrogen Peroxide on clay? A spray of it
seems to wipe out mold, though it can take the surface with it.
--
Kathy Forer
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on tue 20 jul 04
Hello all,
Bleach
Bleach is not an adequate biocide because if one uses bleach as a
preventive biocid in the conservation of a ceramic product containing
organic matter, its short duration effect will not be able to effectively
protect this product over time.
Bleach can be used as a disinfecting material for cleaning, with a
temporary and effective action, containers and other equipment. But, it is
not not compatible with ceramic products for ensuring their conservation,
i.e:
- its high pH, which deflocculates clays at the beginning of its
introduction into a liquid glaze, decreases thereafter producing the
opposite effect (flocculation), which can be disastrous for the ceramicist
(worse than the bacteria), if he has set the viscosity of his product right
after having introduced bleach.
- Or the effect of the bleach pH is straightforwardly incompatible with the
product because it causes too great modifications of its properties
Conclusion :
Bleach is an excellent disinfectant, but its high pH and its short duration
effect make it a temporary cleaning material not very compatible, as a
stable protective biocide, with ceramic products
Smart.Conseil and I
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
Dave Finkelnburg on tue 20 jul 04
Earl has it right, chlorine has limited effectiveness. One of the
limitations of halides (chlorine, bromine or iodine) and peroxides as
biocides in water is the solids in the water. Halides and peroxides work by
oxidizing the cell tissue of any organisms present. Any inert solids
present (mud, dirt, clay) inhibit this by preventing the oxidizing atoms
from getting at the bugs.
I don't think the bugs care if chlorine comes as sodium hypochlorite,
sodium chloride, or whatever, but the bacteria, algae or fungi can live
quite happily at the bottom of the bucket, in and under the clay, while the
water above may be rich with chemicals that would poison the same bugs in
clear water.
I use bleach very little but, if my throwing slip gets stinky as it
sits, while I'm on a glazing and firing campaign, I will toss in a capful of
liquid laundry bleach to knock down the septic odor when I go back to
throwing. As with Lisa's experience, I've never noticed a problem. As
always, your mileage may vary...
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg in Idaho, USA, where the two-inches of rain
that fell from a thunderstorm day before yesterday made this seem more like
Key West than the Intermountain West
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Brunner"
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 7:48 AM
> I'm not sure putting bleach in the TOP, standing water of a slip bucket
will
> do much below the surface, I have heard of artifical lakes being lined
with
> a layer of clay so that the water doesn't drain away. If it does that,
then
> I'm not sure that putting bleach or anything else on the top will will get
> it into the clay enough to do anything.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 21 jul 04
Dear Kathy Forer,
Since Hydrogen peroxide is an acidic liquid it will most probably
flocculate a clay slurry.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
.
Kathy Forer on thu 22 jul 04
Dear Ivor Lewis,
I am most appreciative of your simple lead that hydrogen peroxide is an
acidic liquid. To Hamer I shall go, picturing flocks of sheep, decks of
cards and even fullerenes.
Any news on your Ceramique Meringue?
Kathy Forer
Locust
Ron Roy on thu 22 jul 04
Hi Gayle,
Paper clay usually contains a biocide - they come marked as poison by the
way - you are right to be caucious.
Most of that bad smell is due to the kind of bacteria that grow without
oxygen - airation may be a short term answer.
RR
>I guess the questions then are:
>Is there a stable protective biocide
>compatible with ceramic products?
>And
>Are they safe to use?
>
>I'm not saying I would run out to get it
>or even use it but there have been people
>with compromised immune systems whether
>it be allergies or something more serious
>who have asked that question before.
>
>Gayle Bair
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 24 jul 04
Dear Kathy Forer,
Ceramique Meringue is on the back burner, so to speak. I need a new
cooker to get my latest mixture to rise well. The new version is more
of a "Sponge Cake" than a meringue and will probably have a greater
resistance to heat.
Thanks for getting in touch.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
.
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